20:02:35 <cwickert> #startmeeting EMEA ambassadors 2012-09-26
20:02:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 26 20:02:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02:35 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:02:48 <cwickert> #meetingname EMEA Ambassadors
20:02:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'emea_ambassadors'
20:03:03 <cwickert> #chair cwickert sesivany
20:03:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert sesivany
20:03:10 <cwickert> #topic Roll call
20:03:14 <gnokii> .fas gnokii
20:03:14 <zodbot> gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de>
20:03:14 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
20:03:16 <cmpahar> greetings to all
20:03:17 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
20:03:19 <cmpahar> .fas cmpahar
20:03:20 <zodbot> cmpahar: cmpahar 'Christos Bacharakis' <cmpahar@gmail.com>
20:03:20 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
20:03:23 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
20:03:25 * cmpahar just in time :D
20:03:41 <GeroldKa> .fas geroldka
20:03:41 <zodbot> GeroldKa: geroldka 'Gerold Kassube' <gerold@lugd.org>
20:05:08 <sesivany> who's got the ping list to ping others? :)
20:05:08 <jreznik> .fas jreznik
20:05:10 <zodbot> jreznik: jreznik 'Jaroslav Reznik' <jreznik@redhat.com>
20:05:31 <cwickert> sesivany: can you chair the meeting? I just had another one and am still doing paperwork
20:05:38 <cwickert> digital paperwork that is :)
20:05:45 <sesivany> cwickert: no problem
20:06:20 <sesivany> #topic Announcements
20:06:33 <sesivany> does anyone have any announcement?
20:06:42 <GeroldKa> do you now your paperwork instead of attending the EMEA Meeting, Christoph ????
20:06:45 <GeroldKa> :-P
20:06:51 <thunderbirdtr> .fas thunderbirdtr
20:06:51 <zodbot> thunderbirdtr: thunderbirdtr 'Onuralp SEZER' <thunderbirdtr@gmail.com>
20:07:01 <underscores|2> .fas underscores|2
20:07:01 <zodbot> underscores|2: 'underscores|2' Not Found!
20:07:06 <underscores|2> .fas underscores
20:07:07 <zodbot> underscores|2: underscores 'Fabian Kanngießer' <fabian.kanngiesser@yahoo.de>
20:07:32 <robyduck> we have new live respins on http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/live-respins/
20:08:10 <sesivany> robyduck: those include updates? or what's the difference?
20:08:16 <robyduck> thx to Southern_Gentlem for info, there is also a multi CD
20:08:32 <robyduck> yes, updated at september 25
20:09:29 <cwickert> #info new respins available at http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/live-respins/ - use them, have fun, but please don't distribute them as *official* media
20:09:42 <cwickert> sesivany: how much media are left?
20:09:43 <sesivany> robyduck: thanks for the info
20:09:48 <thunderbirdtr> robyduck: nice work ... thanks
20:09:53 <robyduck> :)
20:10:00 <cwickert> should we make an announcement on this?, like "last calls for media"?
20:10:06 <sesivany> cwickert: about 300 and I already promised 100 to Italy. so not too many.
20:10:44 <gnokii> still have 30 and so far I know form the 100 I sent to HH are still 50 there, but we need arround 50 for BLIT
20:11:00 <sesivany> cwickert: that's a good idea.
20:11:12 <robyduck> cwickert: announcement could be useful, specifying that they are not 'official' media
20:11:45 <cwickert> #action: all ambassadors who still have F17 media left, please add them to https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/wiki/Inventory
20:12:52 <sesivany> #info There are only 200 F17 media left. If you need any, this is last call. Ask for them in EMEA trac.
20:13:04 <cwickert> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/newticket
20:13:30 <sesivany> any other announcements?
20:14:00 <cmpahar> !
20:14:08 * cmpahar regarding the media
20:14:10 <sesivany> cmpahar: go ahead
20:14:14 <cmpahar> thanks
20:15:02 <twohot> started?
20:15:02 <cmpahar> Maybe I could use the leftover media for my University. Almost every year the college teacher asks me to provide him some media for the new college students
20:15:12 <sesivany> twohot: yes
20:15:18 <cmpahar> i could use around 70 media
20:15:19 <cmpahar> eof
20:15:20 <twohot> oh, great
20:15:23 <twohot> .fas
20:15:23 <zodbot> twohot: (fas <query>) -- Search the Fedora Account System usernames, full names, and email addresses for a match.
20:15:29 <twohot> .fas twohot
20:15:30 <zodbot> twohot: twohot 'Onyeibo Oku' <twohotis@gmail.com>
20:16:24 <cmpahar> so, can someone bring some media in FUDCon?
20:16:25 <sesivany> cmpahar: ok, let's wait if anyone else will ask for them for some important event. If not, we can give the 70 to the university.
20:16:43 <sesivany> cmpahar: I certainly can.
20:17:33 <cmpahar> sesivany, yes my proposition is only for the leftover media. If someone else needs them, no problem ;)
20:18:00 <sesivany> cmpahar: I will take the rest of the media to FUDCon. We'll see if anyone will ask for them till FUDCon.
20:18:27 <cmpahar> thanks sesivany
20:18:40 <sesivany> anything else to announcements?
20:19:09 <sesivany> ok, let's move forward.
20:19:31 <sesivany> #topic Ambassadors Schedule
20:19:47 * sesivany searching for the schedule...
20:20:04 <sesivany> #link http://jreznik.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-ambassadors-tasks.html
20:20:56 <sesivany> it's media and swag preparation time.
20:21:29 <sesivany> I did a little homework and examined what swag we could have produced.
20:21:58 * cwickert needs to leave and will read the meeting logs later
20:22:00 <sesivany> now we have metal pins and case badges in stock.
20:22:10 <underscores> cool
20:22:14 * cmpahar bb cwickert
20:22:19 <sesivany> cwickert: ok, see you later!
20:22:20 <cmpahar> !
20:22:32 <sesivany> cmpahar: go ahead
20:23:09 <cwickert> !
20:23:10 <cmpahar> I have the button machine that we bought a year ago (maybe two). cwickert ordered for me 1000pins to print and create in May
20:23:11 <cwickert> ?
20:23:34 <cmpahar> this is a really late update but best late than never
20:23:44 <cmpahar> the thing is that the buttons are 0.01mm smaller
20:23:55 <cmpahar> than they had to be.
20:24:24 <cmpahar> so, i am trying to do some modifications in the button machine in order to work. I dont know if i success but keep in mind
20:24:48 <cmpahar> that we can order new buttons from the supplier where we supplied the button machine and create some cool buttons!
20:24:50 <cmpahar> eof
20:25:59 <cwickert> cmpahar: you should have told me that like 5 months ago, we could have returned the buttons. I asked you if they were ok and you said yes :(
20:26:19 <sesivany> cmpahar: ok, thanks for the update. We also have a reliable supplier here. I just received 500 Fedora pins for our RHT office. So if the modifications take more time we can also have something produced here too. No problem with that.
20:26:48 <underscores> good bye o/
20:26:51 <cmpahar> cwickert, i dont think so, I thought i was doing it wrong but when i met pierros and showed me the right way , we figure it out (2 months later)
20:27:03 <cmpahar> look
20:27:25 * twohot would like to see pictures of these swags
20:27:30 <cmpahar> the machine is for 0.25mm, and the buttons you ordered too
20:27:41 <gnokii> guys does it makes sense to discuss that, because it will not become better from it! Just for next time better communication!
20:27:52 <cwickert> better = faster
20:28:04 <cwickert> within 2 weeks you can return it to the vendor
20:28:08 <cwickert> but now we cannot
20:28:10 <cmpahar> BUT, we figured out that it's different from manufacturer to manufacturer
20:28:43 <cmpahar> sorry cwickert we couldnt do something. I am trying to modify the machine and i think i will, we will see
20:29:01 <cwickert> cmpahar: ok, but please don't break the machine. eof
20:29:13 <cmpahar> cwickert, ahahahah no no, no worries ;)
20:29:21 * cwickert doesn't think this is funny
20:30:00 <sesivany> ok, enough said about the buttons. Let's move on...
20:30:08 <cmpahar> cwickert, no its not, i am not. you can trust me :)
20:30:13 <cmpahar> +1
20:31:18 <sesivany> I'm going to have some Fedora swag produced for our office. Probably caps, mugs, and roller pens. I can order some more for us and we can share overhead cost.
20:31:43 <sesivany> I already spoke a bit about designs for caps and mugs with gnokii
20:33:11 <sesivany> the cost of mugs is about €4, the same price is for caps, and pens are about €0.4.
20:33:37 <sesivany> what do you think about that? Do you think it would be worth producing?
20:34:16 <cmpahar> it depends
20:34:37 <gnokii> so far we use it not as a give away on booth that should be possible, because its expensive
20:35:38 <cmpahar> it depends if we sell it or give it away to Fedora contributors
20:36:01 <sesivany> gnokii: well, not every swag needs to be give away. Sometimes, you need to have something to give as prize to a contest, or reward contributors etc.
20:36:17 <gnokii> yes, thats what I meant
20:36:42 <gnokii> cmpahar: u can be happy cwickert heard not that u said "sell it"
20:36:50 <sesivany> cmpahar: we can't sell anything. So only giving to contributors or contests. Simply restricted give away.
20:37:27 <cmpahar> sorry but when we produced some mugs in greece just every contributor paid for his own
20:37:51 * cwickert cries...
20:38:20 * cmpahar cwickert sorry mate :(
20:39:03 <sesivany> cmpahar: it was just a suggestion. We don't have to go for it. But I think giving a mug for €4 to a contributor is not IMO big deal.
20:39:35 <cmpahar> sesivany, if we have  budget we have to give them for free!
20:39:52 <sesivany> cmpahar: those people deserve it. But if we find better ways to spend money, I have no problem to spend it somewhere else.
20:40:41 <sesivany> cmpahar: we will have a budget for EMEA... hopefully... soon. It's still in the works. cwickert could tell you long stories about it :)
20:40:57 <cmpahar> sesivany, great :)
20:42:06 <cwickert> btw: we need to spend as much money as possible now
20:42:13 <cwickert> so lets do a lot of swag
20:42:24 <sesivany> cwickert: that was my impression, too.
20:42:57 <cwickert> so lets do all the things we said we never could effort :)
20:43:28 <gnokii> means cwickert gets his usb sticks also :D
20:43:58 <sesivany> cwickert: so what about the mugs, caps, and pens I just spoke about. You just need to tell me: do them. And I'll do them :-)
20:44:11 <sesivany> if gnokii helps me with designs ;)
20:44:16 <gnokii> sure
20:44:24 <robyduck> cycling jersey?
20:44:29 <cwickert> sesivany: do them!
20:44:42 <gnokii> mug is already done, but the caps design we could short discuss here
20:44:48 <sesivany> because I will produce some anyway for our office.
20:44:53 <cmpahar> sesivany, sudo do them!
20:44:55 <cwickert> sesivany: of course it is not on me to decide, but we need to have some quotes
20:45:19 <cwickert> so if you come up with reasonable quotes, I am sure we can make it happen
20:45:24 * cwickert also has some more ideas
20:46:29 <sesivany> cwickert: I have quotes for prints and needlework, just need to pick the right model of caps and pens.
20:46:52 <cwickert> ok, lets discuss this later, ok?
20:47:15 <sesivany> cwickert: ok, I'll write an email with quotes and other info.
20:47:20 <cwickert> ok, cool
20:47:25 <cwickert> what about media?
20:47:34 <cwickert> should we just go with the numbers from F18? they seemed to work quite nicely
20:47:51 <sesivany> cwickert: yes, I think we had the right number.
20:47:55 <cwickert> +1
20:48:11 <cmpahar> +1
20:48:34 <sesivany> I will write the vendor, but the problem is the date of F18 final release. It looks like it's gonna be just before Christmas :/
20:49:02 <sesivany> having anything produced around Christmas or New Years is a problem.
20:49:08 <sesivany> but we have to deal with it
20:50:02 <sesivany> anything else to swag or the ambassadors schedule?
20:50:53 <cwickert> anybody else has ideas for swag?
20:51:08 <cwickert> I think we should call for more ideas on the mailing list
20:51:20 <cwickert> #action cwickert to call for more swag ideas on the mailing list
20:52:12 <sesivany> cwickert: and I'll add what I've come up with so far + quotes
20:52:53 <twohot> ?
20:53:15 <sesivany> twohot: shoot
20:53:43 <twohot> I've probably said this before in previous meetings.  Why do i get the impression we're moving in circles?
20:54:15 <twohot> The last action has surfaced in the meeting at least thrice ... we already have suggestions
20:54:29 <gnokii> +1
20:54:35 <cwickert> but we did not have any quotes
20:54:56 <sesivany> twohot: we're trying to break out of the circle :) I have a concrete suggestions and quotes now and will post it to the mailing list.
20:55:11 <sesivany> twohot: that's at least some move :)
20:55:24 <twohot> Then perhaps action should read 'research suggested swags for estimates'
20:55:26 <cwickert> twohot: the situation is fundamentally different now
20:55:39 <cwickert> before we were just asking for ideas
20:55:53 <cwickert> but now that the budget has changed, we need to spend money
20:56:12 <sesivany> and if we don't spend it we lose it
20:56:13 <cwickert> and thus I am asking for people to actually provide quotes how to spend the money
20:56:32 <cwickert> ok, I feel I need to give a little bit of background here
20:56:46 <cwickert> traditionally, our money came from the CommArch team in Red hat
20:56:58 <cwickert> which basically was max
20:57:13 <cwickert> after he left, things were messed up and we had no money
20:57:17 <cwickert> or hardly any money
20:57:33 <cwickert> now there is a new team called "Open Source and Standards"
20:57:35 <cwickert> OSAS
20:57:43 <cwickert> and we start from 0
20:58:05 <cwickert> last year we only spend very little money
20:58:11 <cwickert> because nobody knew how to get it
20:58:35 <cwickert> now we have somebody to request budget from, and we need to get back to the old level
20:58:54 <cwickert> otherwise we will have to get along with little money for the next few years
20:59:05 <cwickert> this means: spend money, but spend it wisely
20:59:11 <cwickert> does this make sense?
20:59:42 <cwickert> I am not saying we should spend money on bullshit, we still need to produce useful stuff
21:00:05 <cwickert> we don't spend money just to burn it, but for what we think is useful for Fedora
21:00:19 <twohot> cwickert: sure ... but we are still at the same place (which is, deciding from the pool of suggested swags the ones to produce and the amount to allocate for the respective productions)
21:00:45 <cwickert> no, we are actually not to decide
21:00:55 <cwickert> I mean, this is no democracy
21:01:03 <twohot> okay?????
21:01:07 <cwickert> it's meritocracy
21:01:14 <gnokii> its a docracy
21:01:15 <cwickert> if you have an idea, you do it
21:01:35 * twohot scratches his head
21:01:38 <cwickert> this means: you ask a vendor for a quote, submit the quote to the community and they make a decision
21:01:55 <cwickert> but it's not everybody saying "I want a pink pony"
21:01:56 <twohot> I get it
21:02:12 <cwickert> you actually have to produce pink ponies if you want them :)
21:02:33 <cwickert> so whoever has an idea, please go for it
21:02:54 <cwickert> don't just say "I want mugs" and wait for somebody to pick up your idea
21:03:02 <cwickert> instead, look for a vendor yourself
21:03:21 * twohot is fixed
21:03:23 <twohot> eof
21:03:24 <cwickert> we might end up with 3 different proposals for mugs and pick the best one = win!
21:04:03 <sesivany> cwickert: are there any updates about new guidelines for swag production? The ones I saw last time were very, very counterproductive.
21:04:25 <cwickert> you want an honest answer?
21:04:38 <sesivany> as honest as possible :)
21:04:43 <cwickert> as long as we don't hear something from legal, we ignore them :)
21:05:11 <sesivany> cwickert: I think that the only way to get something done :)
21:05:12 * gnokii cires
21:05:13 <cwickert> if legal wants a trac instance to approve every single swag item, they need to go ahead and create it
21:05:25 <cwickert> but I don't want them to slow us down
21:05:27 <cwickert> eof
21:06:00 <sesivany> ok, enought said about swag? Let's move on to Events.
21:06:22 <sesivany> #topic Events
21:07:02 <sesivany> there is a FAD in Milan coming.
21:07:30 <sesivany> the budget was approved, and I'm going to send some media and swag to giallu
21:07:48 <robyduck> October 27
21:08:47 <sesivany> we had a great Fedora Packaging Workshop on Friday. 20 new potential packagers came and some look very promosing.
21:09:29 <gnokii> !
21:09:50 <sesivany> one of them wants to make a 3D Print spin in Fedora and is working really hard on packaging all necessary tools for Fedora.
21:09:59 <sesivany> gnokii: go ahead
21:10:45 <gnokii> I was asked on froscon for talks about olpc at blit, dmaphy will do one, we did yesterday his abstract, is there a possibility that he gets an olpc for that day?
21:10:47 <gnokii> eof
21:11:40 <sesivany> gnokii: I don't have an OLPC. I think cwickert has one, but I'm not sure.
21:11:51 * sesivany looks at the inventory...
21:12:00 <gnokii> i thin cwickerts one has zoltan
21:12:34 * cwickert has one and one is at Zoltan
21:12:53 <sesivany> gnokii: ok, then create a ticket and assign it to them.
21:12:54 <cwickert> gnokii: yes, I'll send you mine
21:13:00 <robyduck> !
21:13:08 <gnokii> ok thx cwickert
21:13:12 <cwickert> gnokii: please file a ticket and assign it to me, otherwise I will forget it
21:13:21 <cwickert> when is blit?
21:13:46 <gnokii> first november weekend
21:13:51 <gnokii> plenty of time
21:14:40 <sesivany> robyduck: go ahead
21:14:46 <robyduck> sesivany: do you have some material of your packaging workshop we could reuse at the FAD in Milan?
21:15:51 <robyduck> slides or codec samples?
21:15:59 <sesivany> robyduck: sure, we used spot's slides which are great and we also recorded it. Unfortunately, the camera turned off for a while, so we lost a part of the presentation.
21:16:51 <sesivany> robyduck: check out http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Packaging_Workshop_12-09-21 there should be a link to the presentation down on the page.
21:16:58 <robyduck> ok, thx, we also will start on the spot's slides
21:17:19 <robyduck> but if you have something available would be nice
21:17:41 <robyduck> sesivany: thanks :)
21:17:52 <sesivany> gnokii: what about you? will you come to LinuxDays to meet your old friends from openSUSE? :D
21:18:30 <gnokii> sesivany: I dont think so because I give a talk and two workshops at that date
21:18:36 <robyduck> eof
21:18:38 <gnokii> at german ubucon
21:18:51 <sesivany> gnokii: too bad for them :)
21:18:59 <sesivany> ok, anything else to the events?
21:19:16 <sesivany> don't forget there are F18 test days going on now.
21:19:47 <sesivany> this week is X Test Week (testing nouveau, radeon, and intel).
21:20:25 <sesivany> we had twice more participants than the last time in the nouveau test day yesterday which is great.
21:20:53 <sesivany> some of you did a great job promoting it. I have feedback that Zoltan especially did a great job.
21:21:39 <sesivany> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_18_test_days - F18 test day schedule
21:22:16 <sesivany> #topic Action items from previous meetings
21:22:53 <sesivany> DONE everyone, think about swag for EMEA we can produce for F18.
21:23:32 <sesivany> we've moved from "come up with ideas" to "we've got some ideas, now go ahead and bring quotes from vendors".
21:23:54 <sesivany> let's move to the open floor
21:24:16 <sesivany> #topic openfloor
21:24:50 <sesivany> anything else to discuss? otherwise I'll end the meeting in 3 minutes.
21:27:29 <sesivany> #endmeeting