15:08:26 <jreznik> #startmeeting kde-sig -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2012-02-21
15:08:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 21 15:08:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:08:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:08:53 <jreznik> who's ready (unzombify rdieter)?
15:08:57 * jreznik is here
15:09:05 * rnovacek is here
15:10:17 <Kevin_Kofler> Present.
15:10:30 <than> present
15:11:03 * jreznik is semi-ready, my dog has want-a-hug time...
15:13:23 <jreznik> let's wait a moment for rdieter
15:13:42 <rdieter> here (my body is objecting to non-czech food :(  )
15:13:45 * ltinkl present
15:13:52 <ltinkl> rdieter: hehe
15:14:58 <jreznik> #info jreznik rdieter rnovacek Kevin_Kofler than ltinkl present
15:15:10 <jreznik> #chair jreznik rdieter rnovacek Kevin_Kofler than ltinkl
15:15:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler jreznik ltinkl rdieter rnovacek than
15:17:05 <jreznik> anything for agenda?
15:17:14 <Kevin_Kofler> Alpha blockers (there's at least the "llvmpipe is still crap, so enabling KWin compositing on it was premature and breaks the Alpha in VMs" proposed blocker, though we've mostly agreed on a resolution on #fedora-kde).
15:17:54 <Kevin_Kofler> Oh, also DevConf wrapup.
15:18:13 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: we've agreed it should be fixed, but there's contention still on how best to do that.
15:18:37 <rdieter> devconf is good
15:19:09 <jreznik> added
15:19:15 * rdieter can't think of anything else right now
15:19:51 <Kevin_Kofler> Oh, touch-enabled apps.
15:20:47 <rdieter> ok, touch/mobile versions for plasma-active spin (if we have time)
15:21:18 <jreznik> only in case of time - it's not urgent
15:22:07 <jreznik> #meetingname kde-sig
15:22:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:22:09 <jreznik> ah...
15:22:23 <jreznik> ah, changed topic... sorry guys
15:22:28 <rdieter> .bug 794835
15:22:30 <zodbot> rdieter: Bug 794835 kde desktop unresponsive in F17 virt-manager, compositing+llvmpipe too slow, not ready - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=794835
15:23:25 <rdieter> so, there's 2 things that concern us here.  1.  llvmpipe is not ready for testing, 2.  kwin compositing fallback mode is (sometimes?) flaky
15:24:19 <rdieter> and 2 proposals (hrm, I flipped the ordering here from prior discussion in #fedora-kde, sorry).
15:24:34 <rdieter> prop 1: disable/omit llvmpipe kwin patch
15:24:44 <rdieter> propsal 2: disable kwin compositing by default
15:24:58 <jreznik> #topic compositing and llvmpipe in F17
15:25:17 <rdieter> turns out implementing prop 2 will (largely) fix both issues by itself
15:25:56 <jreznik> if llvmpipe is really not yet ready, it doesn't make sense to ship it...
15:25:57 <rdieter> but, I'd like us to consider both proposals independently, if that's agreeable?
15:26:02 <jreznik> yep
15:26:38 <rnovacek> I'm for doing 1 for now, and reconsider 2 later
15:26:38 <Kevin_Kofler> The only proposed Alpha blocker we have is about llvmpipe, and at least I agree that it should be a blocker (we'll see what QA/rel-eng thinks).
15:26:39 <rdieter> anyone interested in further discussion (beyond what we did prior to this meeting)?
15:27:06 <rdieter> and if not, we can jump into some formal voting
15:27:15 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm voting +1 for prop. 1 (drop llvmpipe patch for now).
15:27:34 * rdieter waits for any discussion requests first.
15:27:37 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm voting -1 for prop. 2 (disable compositing for now) because we really need to test upstream defaults with the Alpha.
15:27:49 <ltinkl> yup, +1 with Kevin
15:27:52 <Kevin_Kofler> We can change things for Beta or Final if it turns out to still suck too much.
15:28:12 <Kevin_Kofler> We've been overriding upstream there for way too long, and more and more stuff is going to rely on compositing starting with 4.9.
15:28:51 <jreznik> drop llvmpipe for now, enable compositing for alpha, get some results, disable it for beta+ :)
15:29:09 <rdieter> ok, I guess it looks like we're voting. :)
15:29:11 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: with 4.9 we would have to do it for sure, same for Active
15:29:54 <rnovacek> if 4.9 would require compositing, we will close the door for it when f17 won't required compositing
15:29:57 <rdieter> me, +1 prop 1, -1 prop 2 (for now)
15:30:27 <Kevin_Kofler> rnovacek: +1, which is one of the reasons I don't like prop. 2.
15:30:28 <jreznik> #info the only alpha blocker proposal is llvmpipe breakage (794835)
15:30:28 <rdieter> than: still feel the same as before?
15:30:35 <than> rdieter: yes ;-)
15:31:08 <rdieter> ok, if I count right, +5/-1 for prop 1, -5/+1 for prop 2    ?
15:31:28 <jreznik> rnovacek, Kevin_Kofler: it's probably true - we can reconsider effects with 4.9 for f17 (it's going to be huge update) or try to ship without DE
15:33:15 <than> Kevin_Kofler: does it mean 4.9 doesn't work without compositing?
15:34:22 <Kevin_Kofler> Some parts like the new screen locker won't work without compositing, there will be a fallback (in this case to the old screen locker).
15:34:50 <rnovacek> jreznik: I don't think we should change default behavior (enable DE) after release of f17, it can break working systems for a lot people
15:34:50 <jreznik> than: more features will depend on compositing - locking etc. but as Kevin_Kofler there will be fallback
15:35:07 <jreznik> rnovacek: we can use fallback then
15:35:25 <jreznik> I'd support DE if I'd be sure it's working, but it's not...
15:35:31 <Kevin_Kofler> I agree that this is a setting we should ship F17 with, not change in an update.
15:36:25 <rdieter> so, if there's no contesting voting results, I can offer to implement prop 1 after meeting.
15:36:44 <Kevin_Kofler> FWIW, it's unfortunate that the llvmpipe feature is advertised as a Fedora 17 feature, but still not in now that we're in feature freeze. :-/
15:37:11 <Kevin_Kofler> Why is this stuff not in Branched yet if it's being worked on? :-/
15:38:35 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: Go ahead.
15:39:39 <rdieter> #agreed (+5/-1) proposal 1: disable/omit llvmpipe kwin patch
15:40:23 <rdieter> #info (+1,-5) rejected proposal 2: disable kwin compositing by default  (for now, re-evaluate for f17beta)
15:40:48 <rdieter> #action rdieter to implement proposal 1 after meeting
15:41:08 <rdieter> anything else here, or can we move on?
15:41:15 <jreznik> was it really to disable for alpha? I thought it's enable for alpha, re-evaluate for beta
15:42:15 <rdieter> jreznik: your question is about prop 2?  rejecting prop2 means keep compositing enabled (per upststream default)
15:42:48 <rdieter> or am I confused?
15:43:20 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes, we rejected the proposal to disable compositing by default for F17 Alpha, which means we keep compositing enabled by default in F17 Alpha.
15:43:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Double negatives tend to confuse people. ;-)
15:45:00 <jreznik> :D
15:45:10 <rdieter> definitely doesn't not confuse me... or wait... tee hee
15:45:34 <Kevin_Kofler> It is not false that this does not confuse me. ;-)
15:45:52 <jreznik> ah, me is - I see rejected proposal :) ok, sorry :)
15:46:13 * jreznik is really confused now, dog gots crazy for some reason, probably wants out...
15:47:00 <rdieter> my "I'm confused, wait, maybe I'm not" t-shirt can be the motto for todays meeting. :)
15:47:31 * jreznik agrees
15:47:38 <Kevin_Kofler> Next topic please!
15:47:53 <jreznik> #topic brno fad wrapup
15:48:34 <rdieter> so how about we go around the room, everyone give a brief summary of what they worked on @ devconf, and the results (or not :) ) of said work.
15:48:53 <rdieter> (then, for extra homework, blog about it)
15:49:19 <Kevin_Kofler> So, new colored systray icons for 4.8, done, not uploaded yet.
15:49:50 <Kevin_Kofler> Update of git-cola in Fedora to latest upstream, done in Rawhide, in updates-testing for F1[567].
15:50:21 <Kevin_Kofler> Talking to all of you: priceless. ^^
15:50:37 <jreznik> from active packaging perspective the only one package is still pending review - share-like-connect another package with invalid-soname - do we care about it? as we have it in many our packages already...
15:51:25 <ltinkl> on the Solid udisks2 front, a first compilable version was finished and pushed to kdelibs git (https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdelibs/repository/revisions/aef03f63de422990ffe14f72b9994c8aba3141b6)
15:51:34 <Kevin_Kofler> Unversioned shlibs are not a review blocker.
15:51:47 * rnovacek looked at the nepomuk stuff, it looks interesting but not many apps uses it (dolphin and bangarang so far)
15:52:38 <rnovacek> and it has some issues, sometime the update of metadata fails for some reason
15:53:54 <rnovacek> I'm suggesting to wait some time and then reconsider to package it, if it gets properly updated
15:54:19 <jreznik> for the talk - it was recorded and all talks are now under processing...
15:54:46 <rdieter> rnovacek: can package for rawhide(f18) only for now?  or you think we should wait even longer?
15:54:51 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: Great.
15:54:58 <rdieter> jreznik: cool!
15:55:16 <rnovacek> rdieter: ok, that seems reasonable
15:55:51 <jreznik> for qt 5 packaging we decided to wait at least for alpha... but still I'm tempted to start working on it :D
15:55:53 <Kevin_Kofler> Your talk was interesting, (ab)using QML as a presentation language… (I think it's not the optimal language for that purpose. ;-) But it was fun to have the examples embedded in the presentation.)
15:56:25 * rdieter worked on integrating kde telepathy 0.3 bits, got good/sane defaults now.  updated comps-f18 for this, and other related kde-package splits (waiting till after f17alpha, to backport to comps-f17)
15:56:46 <Kevin_Kofler> (Oh BTW, you said that people don't normally compile a presentation, I do, using LaTeX-Beamer. ;-) )
15:57:19 <Kevin_Kofler> (<TROLL>Compiled languages FTW!</TROLL>)
15:57:20 <rdieter> touche
15:57:23 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: there's no easier way how to write talks, the issue is export to PDF
15:57:48 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: check sources http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/qml-presentation-system
15:57:53 <rdieter> I guess I have one more tweak to make wrt kde-telpathy, and that's to enable it's systray/plasma icon by default (pending upstream feedback)
15:58:22 <rnovacek> rdieter: btw: instant messaging present has no icon when added to panel for me
15:58:24 <rdieter> to be clear, the plan is to ship kde telepathy, and not kopete, by default.
15:58:48 <rdieter> rnovacek: you right-click on systray ?  and check it?
15:58:54 <jreznik> rdieter: +1, tried it, it's really good (comparing to 0.2)
15:58:57 <rdieter> (similar to how plasma-nm displays)
15:59:14 <jreznik> rnovacek, rdieter: that's the only issue I hit using it
15:59:24 <rnovacek> rdieter: that works :)
15:59:29 <rdieter> ok
15:59:36 <rnovacek> but adding as widget is problem
15:59:46 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: The trend upstream is to deprecate the use of the systray by applications, at least by default…
15:59:47 <rdieter> interesting, that should work too, but I can test that more later
16:00:18 <Kevin_Kofler> But I guess it can be discussed in this case.
16:00:58 <rnovacek> I'm missing merging of contact, otherwise is ktp great :)
16:01:34 * rdieter also helped cwickert review zanshin (who also worked on lightdm packaging)
16:02:17 <rdieter> and we all pitched in a little on various efforts to move plasma-active spin/reviews forward
16:02:27 <rnovacek> I tried zanshin and it works good (+1 karma added)
16:02:28 <rdieter> kudos mostly to rnovacek, jreznik there
16:04:25 * rdieter can't think of anything else, but almost certain we've forgotten to mention *something*. :)
16:05:14 * jreznik just wants to say - it was really awesome to have you guys here, sad than didn't make it :( but still, thanks for coming, thanks for great time spent with you!
16:05:33 <rdieter> oh right, than, hope you're feeling better!
16:05:42 <rnovacek> jreznik: +1, I totally agree
16:05:50 <Kevin_Kofler> +1 :-)
16:06:13 <than> rdieter: it's better now, still have sore throat
16:06:15 <jreznik> and yeah, I hope than is ok and next time...
16:06:42 * rdieter will miss all the nice, small, downstairs czech pubs
16:06:50 <jreznik> :)
16:07:01 <than> sure i will be there next time!
16:07:21 <jreznik> ok, so I think we can end meeting today and next one will be in stuttgart, right? :)
16:07:38 <than> jreznik: why not :)
16:08:14 <jreznik> #endmeeting