22:02:57 <cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-0201
22:02:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb  1 22:02:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:02:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:03:08 <cwickert> #meetingname FAmSCo 2012-0201
22:03:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2012-0201'
22:03:33 <cwickert> #chairs kaio yn1v herlo cwickert igorps
22:03:39 <herlo> good day all
22:03:43 <cwickert> who did I forget?
22:03:45 <kaio> .fasinfo kaio
22:03:46 <zodbot> kaio: User: kaio, Name: Caius Chance (かいお), email: me@kaio.net, Creation: 2008-09-10, IRC Nick: kaio, Timezone: Australia/Brisbane, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 17BEFCFA, Status: active
22:03:49 <herlo> gbraad
22:03:50 <zodbot> kaio: Unapproved Groups: art
22:03:54 <zodbot> kaio: Approved Groups: cla_fedora cla_done fedorabugs hgflies packager cla_redhat ambassadors l10n-commits @packager-zh famsco cvsl10n freemedia
22:04:01 <cwickert> well, gbraad is not here
22:04:03 <herlo> dunno if he's there...
22:04:05 <herlo> yeah
22:04:06 <cwickert> and so is zoltan
22:04:18 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
22:04:20 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
22:04:47 <cwickert> #topic Roll Call
22:04:55 <cwickert> lets see who is actually here
22:05:05 <cwickert> I know herlo is and so is kaio
22:05:10 <cwickert> anybody else?
22:05:16 <cwickert> igorps: are you awake?
22:05:31 <cwickert> yn1v: what about you?
22:05:38 <herlo> zoltan sent regrets
22:05:53 <cwickert> I know, he also went through some of the tickets
22:05:56 * herlo notes that cwickert probably knows this, but thought it wise to document the case
22:05:57 <yn1v> sorry I was in another channel
22:06:02 <jsmith> I think igorps is in the LATAM meeting
22:06:25 <cwickert> jsmith: FUDCon LATAM?
22:06:36 * cwickert suggests to wait a few minutes because we need a quorum
22:06:51 <jsmith> cwickert: No, LATAM Ambassadors
22:07:04 <jsmith> cwickert: FUDCon LATAM meeting isn't for another 24 minutes :-(
22:07:06 <cwickert> where do they meet?
22:07:13 <jsmith> #fedora-latam
22:08:22 * herlo notes he has a hard stop at the top of the next hour
22:08:29 <yn1v> Now I am here with full attention :)
22:08:35 <cwickert> ok, then lets start
22:08:52 <cwickert> the meeting agenda is at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
22:08:57 * igorps is here too
22:09:33 <cwickert> alright, so we have a quorum finally
22:09:48 <cwickert> .famsco 249
22:09:48 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/249
22:10:44 <cwickert> I think this can be approved. yn1v, what do you think?
22:10:45 <yn1v> I suppose that I can deal with this after meeting. It will be closed tonight
22:10:51 <cwickert> ok
22:10:55 <cwickert> +1 for approval then
22:10:59 <herlo> +1
22:10:59 <yn1v> Probably to be clear
22:11:15 <cwickert> please vote, for the minutes ;)
22:11:21 <yn1v> +1
22:11:24 <igorps> +1
22:11:36 <cwickert> #agreed ticket #249 is approved
22:11:40 <inode0> please give a brief explanation of what you just approved
22:11:50 <yn1v> I think if we already funded media, it is straight forward to reimburse shipping
22:12:13 <cwickert> inode0: you cannot see the ticket, right?
22:12:16 <inode0> no
22:12:26 * inode0 can't see the agenda either
22:12:30 <cwickert> ah
22:12:34 <cwickert> did you log in?
22:12:38 <inode0> no
22:12:42 <cwickert> :)
22:12:47 * inode0 will try
22:12:58 <igorps> inode0, that is a ticket asking for reimbursement for shipping t-shirts in Brazil
22:12:59 <nb> cwickert, i think only famsco members have permission isn't it?
22:13:11 <cwickert> not sure if you can see the individual tickets, but at least the agenda and the title of the tickets
22:13:19 * inode0 will try to stop being stupid now :)
22:13:21 <nb> oh ok
22:13:22 <cwickert> nb: people who are in famsco or CC'ed to the ticket
22:13:48 <cwickert> ok, another reimbursement
22:13:51 <cwickert> .famsco 253
22:13:51 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/253
22:14:25 <cwickert> +1 for approval (because I get the money ;))
22:14:40 <herlo> fine to reimburse +1
22:14:45 <yn1v> +1
22:14:59 <igorps> +1
22:15:01 <cwickert> #agreed ticket #253 is approved
22:15:09 * herlo was expecting ticket 250 :)
22:15:22 <herlo> had to double-check on 253
22:15:25 <cwickert> no, that would be to easy
22:15:30 <herlo> lol
22:15:35 <cwickert> I do the quick ones first
22:15:43 <herlo> good plan
22:15:53 <cwickert> and the more controversial ones later, so nobody can disagree with me ;)
22:16:04 <cwickert> that being said...
22:16:08 <cwickert> .famsco 252
22:16:08 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/252
22:16:09 <yn1v> smart
22:16:25 <cwickert> has been cleared up today
22:16:42 <cwickert> for those of you who cannot see it: it's about our two Google+ pages
22:16:48 <igorps> the pages will be unified, right?
22:16:54 <cwickert> one is "Fedora Linux" and the other "Fedora Project"
22:16:54 <yn1v> Just wondering if google page it is better to be handled by marketing ?
22:17:18 <herlo> yn1v: probably...
22:17:31 <cwickert> well, "Fedora Linux" already announced they would close down and asked people to subscribe to "Fedora Project"
22:17:34 <herlo> cwickert: I think the latter is the proper one
22:17:37 <herlo> cwickert: right
22:17:37 <yn1v> they do handle Facebook, twitter, identica ...
22:17:41 * cwickert liked the "Fedora Linux" one better
22:18:05 <cwickert> so we know which one is going to survive
22:18:17 <cwickert> next step is to get more admins for the page
22:18:23 <herlo> cwickert: but it doesn't match the rest of our 'Project'. I don't disagree on the name, other than brand dilution
22:18:24 <kaio> Good
22:18:38 <cwickert> I have asked that all FAmSCo members get admin access
22:18:53 <cwickert> and rbergeron, because she basically is the marketing team
22:18:53 <kaio> V
22:19:04 <herlo> I do think marketing should be in charge, .though having admin access isn't a bad thing for FAmSCo
22:19:19 <cwickert> yes, I want to hand this over to marketing, too
22:19:21 <yn1v> +1
22:19:23 <cwickert> +1
22:19:24 <herlo> +1
22:19:40 <igorps> +1
22:19:50 <cwickert> #agreed Google+ page should be handed over to the marketing folks
22:20:10 <cwickert> #action cwickert to ask marketing people for a list of possible admins
22:20:37 <cwickert> herlo: what are your concerns about the brand dilution?
22:21:11 <herlo> cwickert: just that Fedora Linux is not what we currently market. We market for 'Fedora Project'. But the direction of the google+ page already follows that
22:21:22 <herlo> so I am fine with the solution we've already approved
22:21:36 <cwickert> indeed
22:21:48 <cwickert> I want the old owner from "Fedora Linux" to be admin, too
22:21:55 <herlo> no problem there
22:21:58 <cwickert> because he did a good job, artwork, posts etc
22:21:59 <yn1v> +1
22:22:02 <igorps> sounds fair
22:22:12 <cwickert> this is already taken care off
22:22:19 <cwickert> anything else for us now?
22:22:39 <cwickert> otherwise I suggest to revisit it next week to see if all the admin accounts are in place
22:22:48 <herlo> yeah, sounds good
22:22:51 <herlo> nothing else from me
22:23:00 <kaio> ++
22:23:25 <cwickert> #action revisit ticket #252 next week to see if the changes and the new admin accounts were implemented
22:23:51 <herlo> moving right along :)
22:23:56 <cwickert> oh, we have another budget ticket...
22:23:59 <cwickert> .famsco 254
22:23:59 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/254
22:24:19 <herlo> is that in $US?
22:24:24 <herlo> I didn't look at the attachments
22:24:36 <yn1v> yes, panama use USD as currency
22:24:51 <herlo> cool
22:25:02 <herlo> seems reasonable to approve +1
22:25:18 <cwickert> +1
22:25:28 <cwickert> good value for money I think, isn't it?
22:25:29 <yn1v> +1
22:25:41 <igorps> this is pretty reasonable
22:25:44 <igorps> +1
22:25:55 <cwickert> #agreed ticket #254 is approved
22:26:07 <cwickert> #action yn1v to make reimbursement for #254
22:26:27 <cwickert> #action yn1v to make reimbursement for #249
22:26:55 <cwickert> #action kital to do reimbursement for #253
22:27:54 <cwickert> ok, what's next? "Swag shipping improvements" and "Budget and reimbursement issues" as follow up to the survey
22:28:03 <cwickert> or should we talk about the election rules?
22:28:12 <cwickert> yeah, lets to election rules first
22:28:24 <cwickert> .famsco 255
22:28:25 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/255
22:28:36 <cwickert> I don't want you to approve this today
22:28:54 <cwickert> instead I want you to state your opinions in the wiki
22:29:02 <herlo> I would like to try to review it in the next week.
22:29:09 <yn1v> I have add some comments on the wiki, following some issues that I had expressed some elections ago
22:29:17 <herlo> and possibly propose some changes on the talk page of the wiki
22:29:26 <cwickert> yn1v: yes, I have moved your comments to the talk page
22:29:31 <herlo> :)
22:29:42 <cwickert> for those of us who cannot see the ticket, here is my propsal https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Cwickert/Proposed_FAmSCo_election_rules
22:30:00 <cwickert> and the discussion takes place at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_talk:Cwickert/Proposed_FAmSCo_election_rules
22:30:16 <cwickert> wiki is better than trac for this because it is more open
22:30:17 <yn1v> cwickert, thanks for clearing the mess I did ;)
22:30:30 <cwickert> yn1v: to be honest I think you are over engineering things
22:30:48 <cwickert> lets just go through https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_talk:Cwickert/Proposed_FAmSCo_election_rules real quickly
22:31:23 <yn1v> probably, but those comments come from things that happened
22:31:42 <cwickert> first thing, protecting the wiki page with the nominations: IHMO this is an implementation detail and not something that needs to be defined in the policy
22:31:57 <cwickert> yn1v: do you have an example where this ever caused problems?
22:32:19 <cwickert> I mean, if the page is protected, one cannot even fix a typo
22:32:47 <herlo> there is a history, also. Which means problems can easily be reverted
22:32:50 <yn1v> It is like putting down a foot on the door... people just put the name before dead line, and later they make a complete application/nomination
22:33:07 <cwickert> yn1v: where is the problem?
22:33:18 <cwickert> just to give you an example
22:33:40 <cwickert> I had to meet the deadline, but by that time had not yet worked out this draft we are just discussing
22:33:52 <cwickert> or https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Cwickert/FAmSCo_election_rules_analysis
22:34:12 <cwickert> so I wrote that down in the wiki and added a link from my nomination to that wiki page
22:34:13 <yn1v> I think the dead line should be respected
22:35:13 <yn1v> writting just the name for nomination before dead line, and after dead line write statement seems a bit weird
22:35:26 <cwickert> the nominations wiki page is not necessarily a mission statement, this is what the questionnaire and the townhalls are for
22:36:04 <herlo> yn1v: I don't think it's too strange
22:36:20 <herlo> in some cases, it's going to be a last minute decision
22:36:25 <cwickert> I mean, the only problem I see is if somebody completely changes his mind
22:36:35 <herlo> and putting up your platform after the fact shouldn't be a problem.
22:36:54 <cwickert> like first he writes "all ambassadors suck and we should close down this project" and then "I love the ambassadors"
22:37:11 <yn1v> well, I am not agaisnt that, as we state that it is possible to do it
22:37:30 <cwickert> but this is something that the wrangler will notice and so will our voters. I think that our voters are smart enough
22:37:43 <cwickert> anyway, lets not get into the details too much
22:37:53 <cwickert> I think we already have too many details in there
22:38:16 <cwickert> and I would like to streamline the policies of the board, FESCo and FAmSCo
22:38:23 <yn1v> yes... I am trully happy that my opinion was voiced. I am not expecting to everybody agree with me
22:38:35 <cwickert> I mean, we don't need to define what "seat" or "schedule" means in every policy
22:39:16 <cwickert> as for the schedule: I don't think we need to have a deadline of 3 days, just referring to the combined Fedora election schedule should be enough
22:39:45 <cwickert> anyway, what I would like to see is that everybody takes a look at my draft until next week
22:39:52 <cwickert> just like yn1v has done already
22:40:08 <herlo> cwickert: sounds good
22:40:16 <herlo> I need to do so as well.
22:40:36 <cwickert> herlo: if you remember any details from our sessionin Blacksburg, please write them doen
22:40:37 <cwickert> down
22:40:45 <herlo> will do
22:40:50 <cwickert> especially on filling up vacant seats
22:41:08 <cwickert> we had some disagreement there I think and I want all opinions taken into account
22:41:24 <igorps> I really liked the consideration about "resident" being a better word than "citizen"
22:41:30 <herlo> probably minor, but I will reread it
22:41:52 <cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members to take a look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_talk:Cwickert/Proposed_FAmSCo_election_rules and write their thoughts
22:42:12 <cwickert> igorps: this is in fact something I'd like to ask spot. IANAL and I don't want to get burned
22:42:46 <cwickert> #info of course all ambassadors can add their thoughts about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_talk:Cwickert/Proposed_FAmSCo_election_rules, too. the more feedback, the better
22:43:03 <cwickert> ok, anything more about that ticket now?
22:43:15 <igorps> cwickert, sure, Red Hat legal might have some thoughts on the correct wording for that
22:43:39 * cwickert notes that we are close to hitting the 15 minutes limit for this topic
22:43:54 <yn1v> let's move on
22:43:57 <cwickert> yupp
22:43:58 <igorps> +1
22:43:58 <herlo> igorps: +1 on having RH legal review it when complete
22:44:19 <cwickert> #action cwickert to get in touch with Fedora legal
22:44:46 <cwickert> one more question: do you think it makes sense that we should try to define some things on a board level?
22:45:11 <herlo> what do you mean 'board level'?
22:45:24 <cwickert> like have common definitions for "seat" or "candidate" to avoid problems like resident vs. citizen
22:45:52 <cwickert> not even sure if the board needs to do that, but there policy is pretty straight forward
22:46:01 <herlo> oh, sure. I don't see any problem with predefining those things.
22:46:09 <yn1v> I think resident vs. citizen it is a legal matter, better legal than the boad
22:46:14 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/SuccessionPlanning is short and simple
22:46:18 <herlo> makes sense to clarify those things.
22:46:31 <yn1v> s/ boad /board
22:46:35 <cwickert> alright
22:46:49 <igorps> yn1v, +1
22:47:05 <cwickert> ok then
22:47:16 <cwickert> I think that's really all for this ticket today
22:47:37 <cwickert> dammit, I did not change the topic
22:47:50 <cwickert> #topic Swag shipping improvements
22:47:58 <cwickert> .famsco 250
22:47:58 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/250
22:48:08 <cwickert> not sure if we really can do much there
22:48:14 <herlo> cwickert: one thing we can do
22:48:19 <cwickert> I want more feedback from the local communities first
22:48:25 <cwickert> herlo: go ahead
22:48:27 <herlo> I can't seem to cc anyone but myself on this ticket
22:48:36 <herlo> if you want more feedback, I would need to add people
22:48:50 <cwickert> ok, then post their names in the ticket and I will add them
22:48:56 <herlo> cwickert: will do
22:49:09 <yn1v> there was some discusion about this on latam ambassadors meeting
22:49:13 <herlo> won't happen until next Tuesday probably, due to the FAMNA meeting happening then
22:49:34 <igorps> We just discussed that on LATAM's meeting
22:49:57 <cwickert> #action all FAmSco members ask for feedback regarding ticket #250 and provide a list of people who are involved in swag shipping
22:50:01 <yn1v> I think this will take time, and we need to keep asking feedback for a while
22:50:27 <cwickert> yn1v: right, that's why I basically want to delay it for now
22:50:49 <cwickert> #action cwickert to look into FAmSco trac's permissions in order to allow people who are CC to add more CC's
22:50:59 <cwickert> ok, anything more on this?
22:51:17 <herlo> seems like a good ticket to revisit every week for a while
22:51:21 * herlo has nothing else
22:51:26 <igorps> herlo, +1
22:51:32 <cwickert> yes, this will become a running gag ;)
22:51:32 <kaio> No
22:51:32 <cwickert> +1
22:51:52 <cwickert> #topic Budget and reimbursement issues
22:51:57 <cwickert> .famsco 251
22:51:57 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/251
22:52:41 <cwickert> I think this is basically the same as it is a follow-up to the survey, too
22:52:55 <cwickert> but things are a little different because we depend on RH
22:53:15 <cwickert> and as far as I know the budget for next year will be finalized next week
22:53:31 <cwickert> and hopefully there is more info then
22:53:51 <cwickert> are we fine with delaying this ticket for a week then?
22:54:18 <yn1v> I am really happy how things have been evolving, I want to point that some people have not update their vision on how we are working now. There is a lot of things to improve, but we have improve a lot in the last couple of years
22:54:38 <igorps> Some ambassadors think that FAmSCo Track should be open so they can see who asked for budget.
22:54:38 <herlo> I think it's good to keep visiting this one as well, yes.
22:54:43 <yn1v> I meant working with budget
22:55:06 <herlo> igorps: might be something to look at, maybe file a ticket? :)
22:55:30 <cwickert> igorps: I am fine with that, in fact I already suggested it, but previous FAmSCo's didn't want to open trac up
22:55:37 <herlo> I know it was discussed previously
22:55:57 <igorps> The problem is how to deal with financial and personal information
22:55:57 <cwickert> because there is confidential data in there like addresses and bank accounts
22:56:01 <cwickert> right
22:56:26 <cwickert> #action cwickert to look into the technical aspects of trac and to evaluate, if we can open it up further
22:56:32 <herlo> I wish there was a trac plugin that could let you mark some tickets public and default to private
22:56:53 <igorps> herlo, that would be perfect nice
22:56:55 * herlo doesn't know there isn't one
22:56:55 <cwickert> herlo: I know, that's what I wanted to look at
22:57:02 <nb> herlo, there is, it's called bugzilla :)
22:57:07 <herlo> nb: haha, nope
22:57:10 <cwickert> but as for the numbers: this should all be on the wiki I think
22:57:13 <herlo> bz is way more complex
22:57:16 <yn1v> A change will bring a lot of work on reviewing each ticket to see if there is anything really private
22:57:31 <herlo> yn1v: well, yes. But default ot private first
22:57:51 <cwickert> but I wonder if we really need the budget tickets open?
22:58:01 <herlo> then discuss whether it should be public at a meeting, only then make it public. But I digress, we'll need to see if it's technically possible first
22:58:09 <cwickert> I mean, if something was approved, it doesn't matter who got the money but what it was spent for
22:58:16 <cwickert> or am I wrong?
22:58:17 <igorps> IMHO we already have regional track systems where information is public
22:58:42 <herlo> I think this may go directly to the point of this ticket.
22:59:03 <cwickert> ok, then, I will evaluate this
22:59:17 <cwickert> #topic FUDCons
22:59:24 <yn1v> I think this is something important, I think igorps can open a ticket, we can comment on it a review this later
22:59:24 * herlo has to sign off in one minute
22:59:38 <cwickert> I was asked to bring up the question of possible FUDCon locations for APAC and EMEA
22:59:48 <cwickert> but I first need to prepare a ticket
22:59:59 <cwickert> this came in last minute, so lets delay this until next week
23:00:01 <cwickert> ok?
23:00:07 <herlo> sounds good
23:00:18 * herlo will read the rest later. ciao folks
23:00:24 <igorps> bids for fudcon apac are already in place, right?
23:00:24 <cwickert> #action cwickert to create a ticket on FUDCon locations with all the bids and information
23:00:30 <cwickert> igorps: yes,
23:00:40 <cwickert> ok, I think that's it
23:00:49 <cwickert> thanks everybody for coming
23:01:04 <cwickert> #topic Open Floor
23:01:15 <cwickert> if anybody wants to say something, do it NOW
23:01:25 <cwickert> or be quite for ever
23:01:26 <cwickert> or at least for a week ;)
23:01:27 <inode0> thanks
23:01:39 * cwickert will close the meeting in 2 minutes if nothing comes up
23:01:45 <yn1v> I will create a ticket for evaluating LoKoMurdoK as my replacement on ambassador mentoring
23:02:12 <cwickert> #action yn1v to create a ticket for evaluating LoKoMurdoK as his replacement on ambassador mentoring
23:03:12 <cwickert> #endmeeting