01:59:24 <nb> #startmeeting FAmNA
01:59:24 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 01:59:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is nb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:59:24 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
01:59:29 <nb> #meetingname FAmNA
01:59:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famna'
01:59:38 <herlo> you are a minute early sir!
01:59:39 * nb is not sure which he is supposed to do so he will set both
01:59:50 <nb> herlo, hey, but at least that way i'm not late like usual!
01:59:57 <herlo> lol, true
02:00:00 <nb> i won't start anything important until right on time!
02:00:08 * herlo is usually absent, so he's here to try to do better
02:00:08 * nb wonders if there is a .time
02:00:09 <nb> .time
02:00:09 <zodbot> nb: 02:00 AM, January 04, 2012
02:00:15 <nb> yes there is apparently
02:00:21 <herlo> UTC even!
02:00:22 <SGS> The meeting starts when our meeting chair (nb) says it does.
02:00:34 * nb says it starts now
02:00:34 * herlo waits, patiently
02:00:36 <nb> thanks jamie :)
02:00:45 <nb> #topic Budget
02:00:56 <nb> oh, i think events is first
02:00:59 <nb> #topic Events
02:01:04 <nb> Anyone have anything to say about events?
02:01:30 <jsmith> More events!
02:01:33 <jsmith> More FADs!
02:01:46 <jsmith> (and more accountability for reporting the results of the FADs!)
02:01:47 <herlo> A FUDCOn!
02:01:53 <inode0> More budget! :)
02:01:59 <nb> FUDCon is coming up soon
02:02:08 <herlo> Less is more!
02:02:09 * nb thinks most of us are going?
02:02:14 * herlo will be there
02:02:20 <jsmith> inode0: The only way I can ask for more budget is to show that we've been good stewards of the budget we currently have.
02:02:26 <nb> inode0, but it looks like we usually dont spend all of it so they take some of it away the next year
02:02:37 <inode0> and we aren't?
02:03:06 * inode0 was just joining the fun - don't take smiley comments so seriously
02:03:08 * nb thinks we are good stewards of it
02:03:27 <jsmith> I think in general we're pretty good stewards, but I can definitely see places we can improve as well
02:03:39 <herlo> there's always room for improvement
02:03:58 <nb> i guess i should make a blog since the one page said people who get subsidized for fudcon should post on their blog
02:03:59 <inode0> we could cut down on overnight shipping to people for example
02:04:20 <nb> inode0, +1, except if it is our fault, like that one we had a month or so ago
02:04:24 <jsmith> nb: Yeah, that's one pet peeve of mine -- but I'll talk about that at FUDCon :-)
02:04:48 * nb just doesn't really care for having a blog, but i could post on facebook or twitter
02:05:00 <jsmith> inode0: I'm not worried about ten dollars here or twenty dollars there as much as I am hundreds of dollars (or more)
02:05:01 <nb> but i could make one, that just doesn't mean i'll use it much :)
02:05:20 <jsmith> nb: I don't even really care if it's a blog -- a facebook post, Google+ post, etc. would do
02:05:25 <nb> jsmith, oh ok
02:05:26 * inode0 would like to know where we aren't being good stewards now more specifically
02:05:52 <jsmith> nb: The idea is just to share your experience with others, help them experience (vicariously) the event
02:06:36 <nb> jsmith, good point
02:07:35 <nb> #info Ben has media that will be at FUDcon
02:07:56 <nb> #info nb will be either bringing with him or shipping there some more swag
02:08:08 <nb> probably shipping since i'm not really wanting to check any bags
02:08:51 <nb> anything else on events?
02:08:52 <rrix> Hi, i'm soldering right now
02:09:47 * nb takes that as a no
02:09:50 <nb> #topic Budget
02:09:56 <nb> anything on budget or swag or anything?
02:10:32 <inode0> as is normal I don't know anything about the state of the budget, sorry
02:12:30 <inode0> seems like we asked for help in that regard last month, or the month before
02:12:48 <herlo> inode0: who did you ask?
02:13:09 * herlo could help some there if it needs to be directed to FAMSCO
02:13:29 <nb> inode0, hey, harish just got here
02:13:43 <nb> maybe he could comment on the budget status?
02:15:10 <nb> maybe not
02:15:19 <nb> inode0, harish showed up for part of our meeting last month
02:15:23 <nb> herlo, ^^^
02:15:27 <herlo> ahh
02:15:28 <nb> i meant to direct that at you
02:15:33 <harish> nb, i will try to comment on the budget.
02:15:36 <nb> harish, ok
02:15:42 <harish> do you have a specific question first?
02:16:18 <nb> harish, i think mainly just how are we doing, like do we have more budget left to order more stuff before the end of the year? although i forget right off hand when red hat's year ends
02:16:39 <harish> rh fy ends feb 2012.
02:16:42 <jsmith> nb: Ends at the end of February
02:17:13 <harish> i am awaiting some reports for nov and dec. but if you have specific questions i think i can give an estimate.
02:17:18 <inode0> herlo: it was a meeting topic
02:17:33 <herlo> inode0: yes, I understand :)
02:18:14 <nb> how is everyone on swag?
02:18:22 <nb> do we need to ask harish about reordering anything now?
02:18:39 * nb has pretty much everything except stickers, but i think stabbymc has stickers to send me
02:18:49 <nb> plus i don't have clings but i don't think we want to order them anymore last thing i heard
02:20:19 <nb> kk4ewt, how are you on swag?
02:20:23 <nb> rbergeron, rrix how are you on swag?
02:20:32 <nb> djf_jeff, ^^
02:20:50 <rrix> I have exactly 0 swags
02:20:59 <rrix> rbergeron has all the teeshirtses
02:21:08 <nb> rrix, does robyn have any other swag?
02:21:15 <rrix> Beats me
02:21:19 <nb> like case badges, stickers, balloons, lanyards, etc
02:21:20 <nb> oh ok
02:21:21 <rrix> I doubt it
02:21:21 <kk4ewt> all i have are tshirts and stickers
02:21:36 <kk4ewt> and maybe some pens left
02:21:40 <nb> do we want more balloons?
02:21:43 <inode0> we went through this last month and had a list of things to get iirc
02:21:44 <nb> pens seem to go very well
02:22:02 <inode0> but we don't know what is available for us to fund that list
02:22:06 * nb wonders if we can figure out an estimated price so we can ask harish
02:22:16 <nb> he said he could give us an estimate if we know how much we need
02:22:33 <rbergeron> i have like
02:22:37 <rbergeron> very few stickers
02:22:56 <inode0> it is year end, my question is how much of the "discretionary" budget remains and should we use a hunk of it for swag acquisition
02:23:03 <nb> inode0, yeah
02:23:11 * rbergeron wishes we just knew how much budget there was left period
02:23:11 <rbergeron> not
02:23:19 <rbergeron> give an estimate and i'll say yes or no
02:23:28 <inode0> what?
02:23:43 <inode0> oh, I see and agree
02:24:47 <nb> inode0, just a sec, i will look up last month's note
02:24:56 <nb> and we can put together a rough estimate maybe?
02:25:02 <nb> if someone knows about what we spent last time
02:25:23 <inode0> an estimate in a vacuum isn't what I'm interested in really
02:25:58 <inode0> there are recurring expenses, like t-shirts, that are expensive and if there are funds going unused at year end we can prepare for next year
02:26:43 <kk4ewt> tshirts and media  are expensive
02:26:46 <nb> inode0, i don't really see a list on http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/famna/famna.2011-12-07-02.09.log.txt of what we want
02:27:34 <kk4ewt> i am not seeing balloons going over that great but they are cheap
02:27:41 <rbergeron> yup
02:27:51 <nb> people like pens
02:27:54 <nb> but i have some of them
02:27:57 <nb> but robyn doesn't
02:28:02 <rbergeron> ballons.... meh
02:28:02 <nb> and idk what scott has
02:28:06 <rbergeron> ballooooons
02:28:09 * nb is meh about balloon
02:28:12 <rbergeron> i have no pens
02:28:13 <kk4ewt> pens and case badges are the best
02:28:15 <rbergeron> few stickers
02:28:22 <herlo> rbergeron: I can send you a ton of pens
02:28:23 <nb> rbergeron, stabby probably has some to send you
02:28:24 <nb> stickers
02:28:25 <inode0> case badges are also expensive
02:28:26 <rbergeron> yup.
02:28:27 <herlo> I have a box or so left still
02:28:36 <rbergeron> herlo: bring them to scale
02:28:39 <herlo> rbergeron: k
02:28:43 <kk4ewt> inode0:  about the same prices as the balloons
02:28:44 <rbergeron> :)
02:28:46 <nb> is herlo going to fudcon?
02:28:48 <inode0> no
02:28:50 <nb> oh
02:29:01 <herlo> yes, I'll be there
02:29:05 <rbergeron> what?
02:29:06 * herlo kicks inode0
02:29:08 <rbergeron> he's going
02:29:12 <inode0> case badges last time cost around $2K I think, and around $1.2k the time before
02:29:20 <herlo> nb: scale is just a shorter trip
02:29:27 <nb> herlo, true
02:29:47 * herlo didn't mean to distract
02:29:55 <kk4ewt> last time max ordered 12k for the world
02:29:56 * herlo kicks inode0 again
02:30:18 <inode0> yes, but the smallest reasonable order was $1K+
02:30:31 <inode0> there is a big discount on volume after that point
02:32:15 <kk4ewt> http://noname.math.vt.edu/Fedoraunity/case_badges.pdf
02:32:45 <harish> there is about 2k left in the discretionary category. i'll move the numbers around.
02:32:46 <kk4ewt> i dont think we still have to pay the setup fee
02:34:12 <inode0> seriously? $2k?
02:34:23 <inode0> everyone better stop shipping things
02:35:38 <nb> inode0, well, part might be how i did the media, i had them use our account for f15 and f16
02:35:42 <nb> not sure how herlo did before
02:35:49 <nb> if he used part of the PO or if he used our ups
02:35:58 <herlo> I used ups
02:36:05 <herlo> thing is, prices have gone up
02:36:09 <nb> true
02:36:10 <inode0> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_Architecture_expenses
02:36:18 <inode0> that must be very out of date
02:36:44 <kk4ewt> nb how much was media this time
02:37:03 <nb> kk4ewt, approx 5k
02:37:04 <nb> let me look
02:37:06 <nb> one sec
02:37:20 <nb> 15 was about 7k, i lowered it for 16
02:38:06 <rbergeron> inode0: that's discretionary, not regional
02:38:17 <nb> .calc 3125+2500
02:38:18 <zodbot> nb: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
02:38:19 <rbergeron> doesnt shipping go against regional budget?
02:38:24 <nb> .calc 3125 + 2500
02:38:25 <zodbot> nb: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
02:38:31 <nb> oh zodbot get real
02:38:39 <nb> $5625
02:38:51 <mock> pfft, math
02:38:53 <kk4ewt> so for next year lets budget 12K for media
02:38:54 <inode0> sorry, harish I did not mean commarch discretionary - I meant what commarch calls regional but the fedora project calls discretionary :)
02:38:57 <nb> was the total invoices for Fedora 16 media
02:40:15 <harish> ok. i think that would have a reasonable about. i have some updates to that i thought I received but it was the wrong ones.  i reckon you'll have about 8k left.
02:40:17 <nb> rbergeron, harish did you or harish need the invoices for media? they got sent to me, herlo, ap@redhat and purchasing@redhat
02:40:52 <rbergeron> nb: i have them, i need to do some sort of magic to get them paid and i'm calling linda about it this week
02:40:58 <nb> rbergeron, oh ok
02:40:59 <harish> i think it would be better if rbergeron gets them.
02:41:32 <nb> rbergeron, great, thanks
02:41:45 <nb> So, I guess the question is, do we want to order something?
02:41:54 <rbergeron> i have a mail from oracle saying that i have a po and invoice that dont match, or something
02:43:38 * inode0 suggests constructing a prioritized swag list asap
02:43:58 <herlo> inode0: +1
02:44:00 <nb> yeah, since it looks like we have budget that we could spend
02:44:27 <nb> can we vote to go ahead and order stuff once the shippers figure out what is needed?
02:44:33 <nb> or do we need to wait until next month to vote?
02:44:53 <nb> or do we want to figure out our prioritized swag list now
02:44:53 <herlo> let's vote
02:45:04 <inode0> not really, we do this by more a consensus than a vote anyway
02:45:06 <herlo> I say order stuff right after you prioritized the list
02:45:11 <nb> herlo, i agree
02:45:18 <nb> inode0, true
02:45:22 <herlo> nb: but inode0 is right, consensus
02:45:29 <inode0> well, it doesn't hurt to shop a bit for the best price
02:45:38 <kk4ewt> 5k case badges for 1175 and more pens
02:45:47 <nb> kk4ewt, +1
02:45:52 <herlo> anyone not want to go that route? We'll prioritize a list on the wiki and then start buying from top down until we run out of funds...
02:45:53 <nb> case badges and pens are popular
02:46:17 <nb> i'd like to eventually get splatter tees again, but they're by far not priority
02:46:36 <kk4ewt> too expensive  sorry
02:46:41 <nb> kk4ewt, true
02:47:09 <nb> yeah we could better use that money elsewhere
02:47:27 <inode0> I would suggest being a little careful - pick a number like $3k or $4k to spend in January and then double check things for February would be my suggestion
02:47:40 <nb> inode0, yeah
02:48:09 <nb> i have about 300 or so in postage expenses for raffle on robyn's cc
02:48:14 <kk4ewt> well i am thinking 2K at the moment
02:48:17 <nb> stamps.com account is going nicely
02:49:24 <inode0> I'd like the thank nb for all his help delivering raffle prizes around the world
02:49:50 <nb> #proposal Regional shippers will prioritize a list of swag needed on the wiki and then will spend up to 2k or 3k to purchase items in order of priority
02:50:03 <nb> other interested parties can help with the priorities also
02:50:12 <inode0> We really made a bunch of contributors happy
02:50:23 <nb> yeah, i got a couple of thankyou emails
02:50:56 <nb> kk4ewt, how much does a pen order usually cost?
02:51:56 <nb> SGS, hey, you've been quiet :)
02:52:49 <SGS> nb: Nothing to add. =)
02:53:15 * nb thinks there is pretty much consensus to spend around 2 or 3k on swag based on what we need most
02:53:21 <nb> any objections to #agreed?
02:53:55 <mock> does swag include media?
02:54:04 <nb> mock, well, media is already ordered and here
02:54:16 <mock> oh, i might have missed that part
02:54:18 <kk4ewt> mock yes
02:54:30 <mock> no objections
02:54:37 <mock> swag away
02:54:42 <kk4ewt> nb but it also appears media hasnt been paid for yet
02:55:08 <nb> harish, was our media PO already deducted from what you said we had left?
02:55:22 <kk4ewt> so that will take 5600 out of the 8k
02:55:36 <nb> ooh
02:55:38 <inode0> can't imagine that
02:55:43 <mock> so, 2400 left
02:55:51 <mock> for swag
02:56:01 <kk4ewt> and event support
02:56:10 <kk4ewt> untill june
02:56:15 <mock> whoa
02:56:21 <inode0> stop it
02:57:29 * inode0 assumes media was accounted for - there is a PO yada yada yada
02:57:48 <inode0> june isn't the end of the year, february is
02:57:56 <kk4ewt> inode0:  lets get facts and not assume
02:58:09 <inode0> and as far as I know we only have one event left (is that correct?)
02:58:10 * mock breathes a sigh of relief
02:58:19 <kk4ewt> SCALE
02:58:46 <kk4ewt> and Fudcon
02:59:05 <inode0> I don't recall scale organizers coming here with a budget - have they?
02:59:20 <inode0> we don't spend on fudcon really though
02:59:22 * nb proposes 2-3k
02:59:30 <inode0> for what?
02:59:35 <nb> #proposal Regional shippers will prioritize a list of swag needed on the wiki and then will spend up to 2k or 3k to purchase items in order of priority.  Other interested parties should feel free to comment on swag priorities.
02:59:46 <inode0> +1
02:59:52 <SGS> +1
02:59:56 <kk4ewt> i+1
03:00:06 <nb> +1
03:00:14 <nb> #agreed Regional shippers will prioritize a list of swag needed on the wiki and then will spend up to 2k or 3k to purchase items in order of priority.  Other interested parties should feel free to comment on swag priorities.
03:00:14 <mock> +1
03:00:23 <nb> #topic open floor
03:00:28 * nb opens the floor :)
03:00:43 <inode0> nb: please email demonjester for input on swag
03:00:48 <harish> nb, i am not sure if that number has been deducted. the problem i have is that i am not seeing some of the expenses and am missing them in my tally. what was the amount for the media?
03:00:49 <nb> inode0, sure
03:00:59 <nb> harish, 5625
03:01:05 <nb> not sure what the PO was for, something similar
03:01:12 <nb> $5625.00 was the final invoices
03:02:59 <inode0> is there a wiki page for scale 10x?
03:04:06 <inode0> found it but the budget looks cut and pasted from last year
03:04:30 <inode0> oh, wait, both are on it now
03:04:43 <kk4ewt> well that would be smart
03:05:02 <inode0> we need to deal with scale - really need to deal with it now
03:05:19 <nb> #undo
03:05:19 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x27ffa350>
03:05:31 * nb undoes the agreed since we are not sure if we have $ plus have scale
03:06:51 <nb> inode0, suggestions?
03:06:53 <nb> anyone?
03:07:19 <nb> Ambassador team lodging 	$109 	Ambassador 	(add lodging expenses here) Alejandro Acosta would share room but needs extra hotel night since flight back departs on monday ($109)
03:07:19 <nb> Travel 	$140 	Ambassador 	Broken down as follows: (add travel expenses here) $140 for Alejandro Acosta's road trip from Chihuahua to El Paso and back
03:07:19 <nb> SCALE sponsorship 	$1,000 	Ambassador
03:07:19 <nb> Buffer 	$200 	Ambassador 	Cost overruns, etc.
03:07:21 <nb> Printing 	$50 	Ambassador 	Handouts of presentation times, etc.
03:07:22 <inode0> I suggest we don't fund scale unless someone proposed a budget and this is the last meeting before the event isn't it?
03:07:28 <nb> inode0, true
03:07:49 <nb> oh, its on the 20th even
03:07:53 * inode0 really doesn't want to not fund it but seriously we need a budget for it
03:07:57 <nb> yeah, i'm tempted to -1, no one even proposed it
03:08:27 <nb> last wiki edit was 11/2011
03:09:28 <nb> weak +1 to just travel and hotel if they end up having a fedora booth or anything at scale
03:09:33 <nb> -1 sponsorship, too late.
03:10:38 <nb> kk4ewt, SGS herlo anyone comments?
03:10:41 <nb> rbergeron, rrix comments?
03:10:51 <SGS> nb: I kinda have to agree with you, -1.
03:11:07 <kk4ewt> sleepy
03:11:22 <nb> yeah, our meeting has gone long
03:11:22 <dramsey> ;-)sleepy, too sleepy
03:11:51 <nb> #agreed Regional shippers will prioritize a list of swag needed on the wiki and then will spend up to 2k or 3k to purchase items in order of priority.  Other interested parties should feel free to comment on swag priorities.
03:12:04 <nb> #agreed not to sponsor SCALE 10x due to lack of a proposal
03:12:11 <nb> anything else before i endmeeting?
03:12:25 <nb> (I had to put the agreed about spending money for swag back since i had undone it)
03:12:39 <nb> 2
03:12:41 <nb> 3
03:12:46 <nb> 2
03:12:50 <nb> 1
03:12:52 <nb> #endmeeting