05:01:26 <tagoh> #startmeeting i18n
05:01:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 17 05:01:26 2011 UTC.  The chair is tagoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:01:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:01:31 <tagoh> #meetingname i18n
05:01:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:01:40 <tagoh> #topic agenda and roll call
05:01:52 <tagoh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2011-11-17
05:02:03 <juhp> hi
05:02:06 <tagoh> hi, time to have i18n meeting.
05:02:13 <fujiwarat> hi
05:02:15 <dueno> hi
05:02:32 <epico_laptop> hi
05:02:35 <tagoh> feel free to add any topic to the agenda if you have.
05:02:37 <paragan> hi
05:03:27 <pravins> hi
05:03:51 <anish_> hi
05:04:56 <tagoh> okay, let's get started.
05:05:11 <tagoh> #topic Supportaed language list
05:05:48 <tagoh> well, just added it because that would be a good idea to have the language support criteria from the i18n POV.
05:06:33 <tagoh> and clarify what langauges we support in the release.
05:07:06 <pravins> tagoh: this will like (one can type, render and see locale), right?
05:07:20 <tagoh> pravins: yes
05:08:16 <pravins> great, step. wikipedia support something around 300 language, i think we can take reference from that. ;)
05:08:16 <juhp> great
05:08:38 <juhp> perhaps we need a wikipage for that
05:08:46 <tagoh> juhp: yeah
05:09:18 <paragan> do we need global language coverage page on fedorawiki?
05:09:49 <juhp> paragan, I think it would be good - maybe we can start gradually?
05:09:59 <juhp> say a table for Asian languages
05:10:05 <tagoh> paragan: IMHO good to add the list to relnote or something like that.
05:10:25 <juhp> only?
05:10:30 <tagoh> both?
05:10:45 <pravins> paragan: yeah that will be nice, it will truly reflect fedora's internationalization part
05:10:48 <juhp> aha maybe
05:11:09 <paragan> ok
05:11:28 <juhp> nice thing about that would be we can easily look back and see how coverage evolved
05:11:44 <juhp> anyway I guess wiki is the place to start
05:12:08 <tagoh> well, it may be different among the releases. so any places would be ok if it's obvious what release it is for.
05:12:12 <juhp> also don't no if we have to list every single language like English etc
05:12:28 <juhp> s/no/know
05:12:47 <juhp> anyway I'd try with the non-trivial ones :)
05:13:31 <juhp> i18n/Language_Support ?
05:13:45 <juhp> s/try/start/ ugh
05:14:14 <tagoh> juhp: may depends; if we have more strict criteria? dunno if we can update our blocker bug process with it though. but would be nice if we could say it's a regression say.
05:14:32 <juhp> aha
05:14:46 <pravins> juhp: tagoh but this can be great, we will know where we are and where we want to go
05:16:21 <tagoh> guess minimal requirements would be whether or not the input, fonts, rendering, printing would works for the language.
05:17:40 <pravins> tagoh: yes
05:17:44 <tagoh> we could build up the initial table for f16 perhaps and if we have certain criteria, any volunteers can check against it and add any language to the table.
05:18:22 <paragan> sure
05:19:15 <juhp> sounds good
05:19:17 <tagoh> let me try to make a draft on wiki.. any help are always welcome :)
05:19:48 <juhp> great thanks
05:20:03 <juhp> I can certainly lend a hand with some langs
05:20:07 <tagoh> any questions or suggestions so far?
05:20:18 <tagoh> juhp: thanks
05:21:36 <tagoh> ah, well, this can be reflected to the test day's testcase perhaps.
05:21:41 <tagoh> but anyway
05:22:35 <tagoh> okay, better move on
05:22:44 <lijli> hi, thanks, that's good to have the language table
05:22:59 <tagoh> #topic F17
05:23:06 <tagoh> lijli: yep
05:24:22 <tagoh> so not too much things is going on yet. some features are already going to be submitted it seems. so any idea for f17 features on i18n?
05:25:17 <tagoh> anyone working on it if you have?
05:26:06 <tagoh> guess early submission would be good for development and testing too.
05:27:35 <anish_> i am working on european -indic-table
05:27:58 <epico_laptop> I am working on ibus-pinyin with libpinyin back end.
05:28:08 <tagoh> thought the candidate from the last meeting was libpinyin, fonts-tweak-tool and Inscript2 though
05:29:45 <tagoh> good to make the plan clearer according to the template and propose it for f17 if it's worth promoting as f17 features
05:30:56 <tagoh> we still have a time for proposal though
05:31:32 <pravins> anish_: once you setup git repo, do let us know. so we can test and give some suggestions
05:31:44 <juhp> yeah to prepare Feature pages in good time - since that process also helps to clarify one's thinking :)
05:32:03 <tagoh> pravins: cool
05:32:12 <tagoh> juhp: right
05:32:27 <juhp> anish_, perhaps you can do a feature for European completing input or English at least :)
05:32:50 <anish_> pravins, juhp i will do that
05:33:14 <tagoh> anything else?
05:33:22 <juhp> when you're ready :)
05:34:29 <tagoh> okay, let's move on then.
05:34:43 <tagoh> #topic Bugzilla house keeping
05:35:12 <tagoh> only fyi, we still have 37 bugs open in f14.
05:37:01 <tagoh> good to have a little time to review them and take an appropriate action for them. the goal is to avoid the unfortunate auto-close due to EOL, even though it's not yet fixed in any releases.
05:37:51 <juhp> hmm
05:37:59 <tagoh> of course any volunteers to have a look at them are welcome and propose any fix for them
05:38:58 <juhp> agreed - let's all try to re-triage open f14 bugs and either move to a newer release or close them out
05:39:32 <tagoh> if issues aren't reproducible, good to ask bug reporters. could be closed in any cases perhaps.
05:39:45 <juhp> yes
05:40:16 <tagoh> it's not that surprised the issue is fixed in any release without any notice unfortunately or fortunately ;)
05:40:55 <tagoh> so let's revisit your bugs or i18n bugs to update.
05:41:12 <tagoh> #topic Input Methods
05:41:29 <tagoh> any news, updates or concerns to share?
05:43:01 <juhp> I think there is still not consensus on what to do for IME menu for gnome ibus
05:43:16 <tagoh> sure
05:43:36 <juhp> I think aday is pushing to have just one menu for input
05:46:43 <tagoh> hm, IMHO if any keybindings works enough, it could be dropped there.
05:47:28 <pravins> tagoh: thinking to make booster as a default IME for supported language in Fedora 17
05:47:31 <juhp> hm yeah
05:47:53 <fujiwarat> I'd think my idea still works with his thought.
05:48:11 <pravins> but need to do some analysis and take some feedback prior to that from l10n
05:48:12 <juhp> tagoh: the currently anthy keybindings for conversion are a bit hard to remember
05:48:26 <juhp> fujiwarat, perhaps a mockup would help
05:48:36 <juhp> s/ly//
05:49:00 <tagoh> juhp: assuming one uses the japanese keyboard though, but yeah might be hard on english keyboard
05:49:39 <fujiwarat> juhp: agreed
05:51:27 <tagoh> so which one may be hard to drop from the menu particularly? does anyone have any list per IME?
05:52:49 <juhp> tagoh: right
05:53:29 <fujiwarat> tagoh: typing modes and selection dicts from anthy.
05:53:52 <juhp> also mclasen was complaining that input with ibus seems slow - specially spacebar??
05:54:15 <juhp> (anyway I don't think we're planning to turn on ibus for everyone yet, right?)
05:54:44 <juhp> I wonder how many people use kasumi?
05:54:53 <fujiwarat> space key?
05:55:07 <tagoh> juhp: still need some improvements for footprint I guess.
05:55:24 <fujiwarat> juhp: Why are you talking about kasumi?
05:56:18 <tagoh> fujiwarat: feels the response of activation with ctrl+space and such becames slow a bit regardless of using ibus-gnome3.
05:56:40 <tagoh> since new ctrl+space
05:56:55 <tagoh> guess it's a known issue?
05:57:02 <fujiwarat> tagoh: Do you mean the first ctrl+space?
05:57:45 <tagoh> fujiwarat: not first. but sometimes? ibus ignores it when typing faster.
05:58:34 <tagoh> juhp: it's only way to manage the anthy dictionary though
05:59:55 <juhp> tagoh: yeah I have seen that too - particularly with ibus-gnome3 perhaps?
06:00:07 <juhp> tagoh: yeah i mean from the menu :)
06:00:25 <tagoh> juhp: think it's known and there should be a bug in bz
06:01:04 <tagoh> dunno if it really affects without ibus-gnome3 though.
06:01:49 <tagoh> anyway, for the menu, IMHO would be good to have a list what the current status is and discuss against it if it can be dropped or not.
06:03:22 <juhp> yes
06:03:39 <tagoh> or file a bug against IME and discuss on it?
06:04:54 <tagoh> any way is ok if it certainly works..
06:04:59 <tagoh> anything else?
06:05:31 <juhp> right
06:06:13 <tagoh> fujiwarat: for slow issue, if you think it's separate issue to with ibus-gnome3, I'll file one.
06:07:01 <tagoh> better move on.
06:07:12 <tagoh> #topic Fonts and Rendering
06:07:20 <tagoh> any news, updates or concerns to share?
06:08:48 <pravins> .bug 748710
06:08:49 <zodbot> pravins: Access Denied - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=748710
06:09:50 <pravins> had a discussion with shankarprasad just, i think we can modify some shapes without affecting other thing
06:10:00 <tagoh> hmm
06:10:13 <tagoh> pravins: aha
06:10:37 <pravins> tested it with windows yesterday windows also gives same result, i.e. character cutting with negative sidebrearing
06:10:44 <pravins> so i think we need to handle it in font only
06:10:58 <tagoh> okay
06:11:25 <pravins> this is upstream bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=631585
06:12:27 <pravins> tagoh: juhp i will work on this and give update
06:12:32 <tagoh> thanks
06:13:23 <tagoh> anything else from anyone?
06:15:28 <tagoh> if not, let's close the meeting shortly then.
06:16:33 <tagoh> okay, thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:16:39 <tagoh> #endmeeting