20:01:37 <stickster> #startmeeting Insight
20:01:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul 19 20:01:37 2011 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:01:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:41 <stickster> #meetingname Insight
20:01:41 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'insight'
20:01:44 <stickster> #topic Roll call
20:01:45 * stickster 
20:01:54 <asrob> hi
20:02:04 * nirik is lurking around.
20:03:46 <tatica> o/
20:03:52 * rbergeron lurks a bit as well
20:04:02 <stickster> #chair asrob nirik tatica rbergeron
20:04:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: asrob nirik rbergeron stickster tatica
20:04:14 <stickster> I thought pcalarco would be here this week, not sure if he actually got free to do it
20:04:15 * jsmith lurks a bit as well
20:05:26 <stickster> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-07-12/insight.2011-07-12-20.01.html -- Last meeting notes
20:05:36 <stickster> #topic Action item review!
20:05:51 <stickster> #info stickster did #4 and #5, hasn't had time to tackle #1 yet
20:07:39 <stickster> asrob: Want to #info yours?
20:07:46 <asrob> yeah...
20:08:07 <asrob> #info asrod did #2, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight_use_cases_for_calendar
20:08:19 <stickster> asrob++  :-)
20:08:27 <asrob> I sent an email to the list as well
20:09:47 <stickster> asrob: Did you get any further on mediawiki_api? What specifically were we supposed to be doing there?
20:10:00 <asrob> and I sent an email to the mediawiki_api maintainer in order to we would like to co-maintain that
20:10:34 <asrob> but I didn't get an answer so I'm waiting for his reply
20:11:08 <stickster> Ah, OK -- right, this was a case where the module appears to work OK but isn't really getting a lot of maintenance (maybe unnecessary but would be nice to know there's someone active behind it)
20:12:22 <stickster> All right, moving on then
20:12:45 <stickster> I apologize but I need to play fast and loose with agenda today, due to this first topic
20:12:58 <stickster> #topic Need help with meetings!
20:13:32 <stickster> #info stickster has a project at work with several meetings scheduled early in the week that make it very hard to coordinate this meeting weekly
20:13:55 <stickster> #idea Could anyone be available to trade back and forth, on alternating weeks, running this meeting?
20:14:20 <stickster> That would mean keeping things moving on list, organizing the agenda and sending out a reminder the day before, run the meeting, and send out notes immediately afterward.
20:15:23 <stickster> Hm, no resopnse
20:15:30 <stickster> Response, even. :-) I'll ask again on the list.
20:15:38 * tatica could, but I'm not that involve to handle it yet
20:15:51 <tatica> :(
20:15:52 <asrob> if nobody can't help, I'll help you
20:16:19 <stickster> tatica: I understand :-) Let's talk about it on the list and figure it out there. I can definitely do next week, just would like to get some help.
20:16:29 <stickster> #action stickster Ask list about help with meetings.
20:16:33 <asrob> at least I'll learn this :)
20:17:08 <stickster> #topic Development
20:17:40 <stickster> So right now I realize that there's some feature stuff asrob has done which seems to be blocked on me -- specifically he may need me to clean up the feature branch he did so that we can deploy to staging.
20:17:45 <stickster> asrob: Is that right?
20:18:01 <asrob> stickster, yeah, you're right
20:18:22 <tatica> :)
20:18:31 * tatica can push people to act... I'm got at
20:18:32 <stickster> asrob: There are two folders in the current branch you made -- which folder had the right stuff in it?
20:18:45 <asrob> wait a sec...
20:19:12 <stickster> tatica: You might be the right person for the job then! I'll write to the logistics@ list and you can put your hand up there, if it sounds good to you! :-)
20:19:17 <asrob> stickster, basic_features contains the right stuff
20:19:27 <tatica> let see what I can do then :P
20:19:42 <stickster> #info basic_features in asrob's branch is the correct branch material -- make that the folder and then merge it in
20:19:54 <asrob> ;)
20:19:57 <stickster> asrob: So the other blocker is a features_extra module, isn't it?
20:20:03 <asrob> yep
20:20:22 <asrob> it isn't packaged, right?
20:20:27 <stickster> asrob: Correct
20:21:22 <stickster> asrob: Would you be able to package that?
20:21:29 <asrob> stickster, can you or I package?
20:21:38 <asrob> stickster, sure
20:21:45 <stickster> I won't be able to do it this week at all because after tomorrow I'm on a short vacation until next Monday and won't even have a computer
20:22:05 <asrob> :) it's good for you
20:22:28 <stickster> Cool!
20:22:37 <stickster> #action asrob package features_extra module and submit for review
20:22:43 <stickster> #action stickster Review features_extra module for asrob
20:22:54 <stickster> \o/
20:23:04 <asrob> ;)
20:23:36 <stickster> #action stickster Add features_extra package to puppet once we can make it available in either Infra repo or get from epel-testing
20:23:37 <tatica> brb
20:24:53 <stickster> asrob: OK, other than that on development, I guess we need to attack some more tickets, this has just been a rough couple of weeks to do that
20:25:26 <asrob> absolute
20:27:26 <stickster> #action asrob Give status on mediawiki_api contact next week, in case we hear back from maintainer
20:27:59 <tatica> back
20:28:19 <stickster> OK, let's go to open floor
20:28:22 <stickster> #topic Open floor
20:29:02 <stickster> In general here's how I see us spending the next few weeks:
20:29:13 <stickster> 1. Get packaging and deployment of features_extra working, so we can fix more tickets
20:29:19 <stickster> 2. Fix more tickets! :-)
20:29:31 <stickster> 3. Start working on next bunch of features as separate directory in the insight-features repo
20:29:38 <stickster> *directories
20:29:43 <stickster> That'
20:30:03 <stickster> oops! That's just my idea though -- I would like to hear what other people think we ought to be doing. Please feel free to disagree!!!
20:30:03 <asrob> this is cool roadmap :)
20:30:43 <asrob> +1
20:31:05 <Nushio> I agree with the roadmap
20:31:56 <stickster> Nushio!
20:32:02 <Nushio> Hey stickster!
20:32:18 <stickster> So tell us what you're thinking about the dialogue about COD that's going on now, and how that ties in with the GSoC project for events
20:32:33 * stickster pokes nirik in the shoulder
20:32:39 * nirik listens too.
20:32:51 <stickster> jsmith: ^^
20:33:00 <Nushio> Well, COD will be the heart of the events system, there's little point on reinventing the wheel
20:33:30 * stickster notes that Nushio's project is *not* required to be in Fedora so our packaging/deployment issues don't necessarily impact him
20:33:32 <Nushio> We'll add a... social layer(?) to it, providing stats and information such as tweets and dents
20:33:56 <Nushio> stickster: ah, but since it's Fedora's GSOC project, I think it should end up packaged in Fedora
20:34:10 <stickster> So Nushio, in working with COD, is it your intention to just build additional code modules that will use the Hook API?
20:34:21 <Nushio> Indeed
20:34:31 <stickster> i.e. something that could be more easily disconnected into separate modules if we wanted to package it
20:35:05 <asrob> you always use drupal api, don't hack the core ;)
20:35:12 <Nushio> Yes, we don't intend to do much to the COD modules other than to hook up with the, :)
20:35:15 <Nushio> *them
20:35:52 <nirik> My concern with COD is that it be setup in such a way as it can be managed in infrastructure in an automated and reproducable way. Also, that it's done in such a way that anyone else could duplicate it.
20:36:15 <Nushio> something like yum install drupal-cod ?
20:36:32 <stickster> This sounds like a big win to me, then. In other words, if we can get some people to work on tackling those issues -- packaging COD and ensuring anyone can redeploy from scratch -- it's not an intractable problem at alll
20:36:35 <nirik> sure, that would be ideal... :) along with updates when needed, etc.
20:36:37 <stickster> Nushio: Precisely
20:36:52 <Nushio> I'll be the first to say that I'm not familiar with drupal rpm packages, but I'll read and compare other modules and handle it
20:36:54 * stickster notes that Drupal also plays friendly with Fedora's upstream release monitoring -- he uses it for his own module packages.
20:37:04 <stickster> Nushio: This may be helpful then: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Drupal_module_specfile_template
20:37:14 <Nushio> thanks stickster, I was about to search for it
20:37:47 <nirik> While this could be good from a longer term perspective, do we wish to look at some static pages in the mean time? or just continue to use the wiki?
20:39:29 <Nushio> nirik: is this about the events system, or insight?
20:39:47 <asrob> hm, if all COD's dependencies are packaged then it will work because that is a custom profile
20:39:49 <stickster> nirik: Are you asking on behalf of FUDCon planning, or ...?
20:39:53 <stickster> asrob: Right
20:40:11 <nirik> sorry, fudcon planning.
20:40:18 <nirik> events, etc
20:40:32 * stickster is looking right now at the issue of how a long term events system, specifically Nushio's project, could be integrated into Insight
20:41:02 <nirik> yeah, I think we have to look at this all in increments...
20:41:09 <nirik> - short term: static pages? or wiki
20:41:21 <nirik> - longer term: COD packaged, setup some instance.
20:41:22 <Nushio> for the time being, I think a static page could suffice, we're still working on it
20:41:25 <Nushio> yeah
20:41:30 <nirik> - longer term still: integrated with insight
20:41:37 <stickster> nirik: Right
20:41:49 * stickster doesn't want this meeting to make decisions for the FUDCon folks
20:41:59 * nirik nods. Just throwing out ideas.
20:42:23 <stickster> But if any of us are needed, jsmith (or whoever) can pull together the right people to figure out the short term stuff with FUDConners
20:42:50 <stickster> I think static pages, using the current genshi stuff, would make sense where we don't need user interaction
20:43:11 <nirik> infrastructure has had 2 groups ask for fudcon web space... it would be nice if they coordinated and used the same framework
20:43:13 <stickster> But the reason we've used the wiki for so long is that it makes it simple for people to interact, i.e. pre-register and help maintain the info
20:43:14 <Nushio> If needed, we could mount a COD instance of Drupal while the package is reviewed and all
20:43:28 <stickster> Moving to static pages in the fedora-web module immediately erects an enormous barrier to collaborative maintenance of info
20:43:45 <nirik> true.
20:43:49 <stickster> Because now anyone wanting to add information needs to know git, make, templates, etc.
20:44:12 <stickster> Meaning everything is then blocked on the few rather than leveraging the willingness of the many :-)
20:44:34 <nirik> right. So, wiki might be a ok short term, but some groups really wanted something nicer looking.
20:45:06 <Nushio> Like I said, we could mount a usable COD instance, for the short term
20:45:17 <Nushio> then switch over to a packaged stable instance later
20:45:24 <Nushio> Once it's finished and deployed
20:45:40 <Nushio> the database would be the same, so the data wouldn't actually be lost
20:45:56 * nirik would be resistant to doing that in infrastructure.
20:46:44 <Nushio> I admit I haven't done any real world tests on COD, so I'd also prefer to have some sort of a test instance before
20:46:47 <nirik> Once something is setup and being used, people have much less incentive to go back and do things right...
20:47:51 <Nushio> nirik: in this case though, it's the final grade for hiemanshu's gosc, he's got incentive :)
20:47:56 <Nushio> *Gsoc
20:48:23 <nirik> sure. I don't know how hard it will be to package up, etc... perhaps more testing/info could be gathered...
20:49:11 <Nushio> I agree, but I don't think it's impossible to package it up
20:49:14 <asrob> just a note in COD's topic: http://groups.drupal.org/conference-organizing-distribution
20:52:32 <stickster> nirik: What other testing or info would you be looking for?
20:52:56 <stickster> I always worry when we don't codify that stuff early, since it could mean we've made a "moving bar" for someone to get past
20:53:07 <nirik> well, reading https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR would be good.
20:54:17 <nirik> anyhow, I think insight folks have gone thru all this... and COD would end up being pretty similar, right?
20:54:25 <stickster> nirik: I believe so
20:54:35 <stickster> nirik: And we could probably advise people on steps or help troubleshoot
20:54:42 <nirik> yeah.
20:54:51 <nirik> I am also very happy to talk with anyone along the way.
20:55:01 <Nushio> hmm, will the events system live as an independent drupal install than insight?
20:56:09 <stickster> Nushio: Remains to be seen, I think.
20:56:12 <stickster> I don't have a good answer for it
20:56:26 <Nushio> alright, because up until now, I was under the impression that it would be integrated
20:56:49 <stickster> Nushio: We can probably integrate it, because that really just means adding some modules to the installation if I understand correctly.
20:56:55 <stickster> The modules would have all the functional code needed for things to run.
20:56:59 <Nushio> yeah
20:57:32 <stickster> Nushio: Interestingly, I think the longer term conversation that nirik and others might be interested in is whether there's any value in Fedora having more web properties managed through Drupal since so many other entities do so very effectively
20:58:10 <stickster> But the deciding factor is how that fits into our deployment criteria. Other entities don't care about free software as much as we do.
20:58:17 * stickster leaves that cosmic issue for some other time
20:58:41 <stickster> Any action we need to capture here?
20:58:51 <asrob> -
20:59:00 <stickster> nirik?
20:59:08 <stickster> If not, we'll close on the hour :-)
20:59:21 <nirik> not that I can think of. we don't have all stakeholders here. ;)
21:00:20 <stickster> Yeah, that's fair.
21:00:34 <stickster> OK, I'm going to close up here -- this was a worthwhile chat though. Thanks Nushio and nirik for being here and participating too!
21:00:56 <Nushio> thanks, and thank you for reminding me
21:01:02 <asrob> thank you
21:01:11 <stickster> #endmeeting