15:00:43 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
15:00:43 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 18 15:00:43 2011 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:43 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:46 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:46 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:49 <jlaska> #topic Roll Call
15:00:56 * mkrizek here
15:01:03 <jlaska> Hi mkrizek
15:01:04 * tflink present
15:01:06 * athmane here
15:01:15 * robatino here
15:01:20 * jlaska tips hat to tflink, athmane and robatino
15:01:45 * kparal joined
15:02:02 <jlaska> ahoj kparal!
15:02:12 * jskladan lurks
15:02:16 * j_dulaney waves
15:02:20 <kparal> ahoj vespolek :)
15:02:24 * pschindl is here
15:02:25 <jlaska> hello j.* :)
15:02:34 * jsmith lurks
15:02:53 <jlaska> zodbot needs a .translate feature :)
15:03:09 <jskladan> :)
15:03:18 <jlaska> alright ... anyone we're missing
15:03:27 <jlaska> Viking-Ice, adamw, me?
15:03:45 <jlaska> let's get started, and hopefully they'll join in if needed+available
15:04:06 * j_dulaney notes that some little boy knocks over a chair and immediately states that it wasn't his fault is a commentary on the sad state of responsibility
15:04:12 <jlaska> thanks to athmane for the topic ... so far only two planned agenda items, so this _might_ be quick
15:04:19 * Viking-Ice sneaks in..
15:04:25 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:04:33 <jlaska> #info j_dulaney will check-in with desktop team for guidance on s-c-* -- thank you j_dulaney!!!
15:04:50 <j_dulaney> Yo
15:04:51 <jlaska> I haven't checked in on desktop@ yet ... not sure if there was any movement on the s-c-* front
15:05:20 <j_dulaney> Their response was that it isn't their area
15:05:21 <adamw> yo
15:05:25 <jlaska> looks like bastien notes they aren't owned by desktop@ and wondered if bugs have been filed yet?
15:05:38 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2011-July/007342.html
15:05:42 <jlaska> adamw: heyo
15:05:52 * brunowolff is here, but was in another window and time slipped by.
15:06:15 <adamw> jlaska: yeah, that's right.
15:06:18 <jlaska> welcome brunowolff, no worries
15:06:30 <jlaska> so what's next then ... file bugs for each of these with a recommended change?
15:06:40 <adamw> sure
15:07:11 * j_dulaney shall take care of that
15:07:45 <adamw> yay
15:07:48 <jlaska> and the recommended fix for each of those is to include a patched .desktop file that has "NotInDesktop=..." ?
15:07:53 * jlaska forgets the exact syntax
15:08:00 <adamw> basically, yeah.
15:08:04 <adamw> NotShowIn, I think.
15:08:06 <jlaska> thx
15:08:25 <jlaska> do we expect these bz's to be well received ... or will the WTF flags be flying high after filing these?
15:08:40 <j_dulaney> Who knows?
15:08:51 <jlaska> one way to find out, right! :D
15:09:24 <jlaska> j_dulaney: thanks for volunteering, please do shout if you want some help filing or pulling together info for the bugs
15:09:25 <brunowolff> A note about why the request is being made in the bug reports will probably help there.
15:09:33 <jlaska> good point
15:09:33 <adamw> i doubt there'd be much of a problem
15:09:59 <jlaska> are we filing against all s-c-* packages, or only a subset at first?
15:10:00 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:10:43 <jlaska> #action j_dulaney volunteered to file bugs against s-c-* packages to recommend patching their .desktop file to avoid application name collisions (NotShowIn=...)
15:10:52 <j_dulaney> Maybe all, with a blocker bug?
15:11:02 <adamw> only the ones there are equivalents for
15:11:19 <jlaska> yeah, the smaller target where we have known naming collisions seems good
15:11:20 <j_dulaney> Indeed
15:11:31 <jlaska> are those previously listed somewhere for j_dulaney?
15:11:38 <jlaska> s-c-keyboard, s-c-date ... ?
15:11:55 <j_dulaney> Indeed, I have 'em
15:11:58 <jlaska> okay, great
15:12:01 <jlaska> thanks j_dulaney!
15:12:06 <jlaska> #info jlaska will announce F16 Alpha blocker review meeting on Wednesday
15:12:25 <jlaska> this was a really *small* task, but more a reminder that I needed to start sending those out again
15:12:35 <jlaska> I'll do it again on Wednesday, unless someone is anxious for the task
15:12:51 <jlaska> #action jlaska - announce F16-Alpha-Blocker meeting #2
15:12:55 <jlaska> #info rbergeron will reach out to cloud-sig for a last call on test case ideas
15:13:15 <jlaska> athmane and tflink, you two have been tracking this ... do you know where this stands?
15:13:33 * athmane is waiting for ami ids
15:13:39 <tflink> same here
15:13:40 <athmane> test cases are ok
15:13:49 <athmane> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-07-19_Cloud_SIG_Fedora_EC2
15:14:00 <tflink> planning to send out an announcement later today
15:14:15 <jlaska> oh, this is really related to the test day topic then?
15:14:30 <jlaska> I'll move on and we can discuss that in more detail shortly ...
15:14:37 <jlaska> #info athmane volunteered to update update release validation SOP to include new Security SPIN test matrix
15:14:39 <athmane> yes
15:14:54 <jlaska> athmane: thank you for updating the wiki's ... and adamw for announcing the changes
15:14:57 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-July/101284.html
15:14:59 <athmane> me and adamw updated SOP
15:15:00 <jlaska> I think we can close that out
15:15:09 * vhumpa is awfully late for his portion of lurking
15:15:15 <jlaska> vhumpa: welcome lurker! :D
15:15:21 <jlaska> okay, on to athmane's topic
15:15:23 <jlaska> #topic Cloud SIG - Fedora 15 on Amazon EC2
15:15:33 <jlaska> #chair athmane
15:15:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: athmane jlaska
15:15:55 <jlaska> athmane: feel free to take it away ... otherwise I'll just meetbot the commands you included in the agenda
15:16:22 <athmane> ok
15:16:46 <athmane> in the last cloud sig we agreed that tomorrow will be the test day
15:17:06 <athmane> but we don't yet have f15 ami ids
15:17:20 <athmane> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/cloud/2011-July/000670.html
15:17:40 <athmane> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-07-19_Cloud_SIG_Fedora_EC2
15:17:52 <jlaska> To state the obvious, I assume the event cannot proceed until AMI's are available for testing?
15:18:04 <athmane> yes
15:18:05 <rbergeron> We have some AMI ID's.
15:18:20 <rbergeron> They're just not the ones that were recently recently made
15:18:22 <athmane> I meant the newer ami ids
15:18:26 <rbergeron> yeah.
15:18:28 <tflink> the AMIs are up, but I believe that they were going to be tested before the numbers were sent out
15:18:28 <rbergeron> jforbes: ringring
15:19:21 * rbergeron is working on it. I'll pop back in before end of meeting and report progress
15:19:42 * jforbes is looking
15:19:58 <adamw> should we delay the event now even if the amis turn up today?
15:20:05 <adamw> one day isn't too long to get much publicity done
15:20:24 <athmane> +1
15:20:36 <jlaska> move to Thu?
15:20:38 <j_dulaney> +1 on delay
15:20:39 <jlaska> or push out 1 week
15:20:48 <rbergeron> it's up to you guys - it depends on what you think is best, i can't run a test day. :)
15:20:57 <rbergeron> (well, i could, but you know, disaster and all)
15:20:59 <jlaska> plenty of breathing room remains in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_16_test_days
15:20:59 <j_dulaney> As an aside, it looks like I just booted F16
15:21:20 <j_dulaney> Push out a week?
15:21:21 <jforbes> Yeah, certainly need to deltay
15:21:22 <rbergeron> jlaska: yeah, the key here is that it's fedora 15, so we're already kind of like way behind.
15:21:23 <j_dulaney> I'm for that
15:21:29 <athmane> jlaska: it's for f15 not f16
15:21:40 <jforbes> I am looking right now, rel-eng has not uploaded any new images
15:21:59 <rbergeron> okay.
15:22:16 <rbergeron> jforbes: let's sort it out and we'll circle back with athmane and tflink to reschedule
15:22:29 * athmane wonders who'll be available during f15 on ec2 test day
15:22:30 * rbergeron salutes the QA team for their patience with us and for all their help
15:22:56 * jforbes will be available, whenever it ends up
15:23:05 <j_dulaney> athmane:  I will be
15:23:34 <j_dulaney> Well, so much for F16 logging in.  It booted, though, which is better than my last try
15:23:36 <jlaska> athmane: it is ... but that's the test day schedule we need to be looking at for now
15:23:40 <jlaska> to avoid conflicts
15:24:39 <tflink> I was hoping to get it done before the F16 test days started
15:24:39 * rbergeron nods
15:24:51 <jlaska> yeah, that's a good plan
15:25:22 <jlaska> athmane: any particular date in mind for rescheduling, or will that be discussed after meeting?
15:25:48 <athmane> jlaska: it's up to cloud sig
15:25:51 <jlaska> okay
15:26:36 <jlaska> #info F15 AMI's not yet available, will propose rescheduling test day with Cloud Sig.  Stay tuned to cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org
15:26:52 <jlaska> athmane: anything else you want to highlight on this topic?
15:27:07 <athmane> no
15:27:38 <jlaska> athmane: okay, thanks for raising this #topic
15:27:50 <jlaska> folks can follow the action on cloud@ after the meeting :)
15:27:56 <jlaska> #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>
15:28:07 <jlaska> okay, I had nothing else on the agenda for today ... so it's open-mic time
15:29:03 <robatino> i was wondering if anyone had any ideas about why the minimum deltaiso size increased in F15 - see http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-May/100322.html
15:29:09 <jlaska> #chair robatino
15:29:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: athmane jlaska robatino
15:29:12 <brunowolff> I haven't heard any updates on the grub issue.
15:29:16 <jlaska> #topic Minimum Delta-ISO size
15:29:25 <robatino> i'm pretty sure it has something to do with https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646843
15:29:31 <jlaska> #info robatino asked .. ."if anyone had any ideas about why the minimum deltaiso size increased in F15"
15:29:34 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-May/100322.html
15:29:40 <robatino> images/install.img will no longer exist in F-15 and newer
15:29:49 <jlaska> brunowolff: that's my next TODO .. I'll nudge that issue after the meeting
15:29:51 <brunowolff> The 32 bit SMP lockup issue is fixed in Linus' tree, but didn' make it into the kernels built over the weekend.
15:30:20 <jlaska> robatino: are the images/install.img and the delta iso two different topics, or related?
15:31:03 <jlaska> robatino: hmm, clumens or wwoods might know more regarding the compression of the delta images
15:31:11 <robatino> jlaska: it turns out that it has something to do with different netinst images not delta-compressing any more, it must have something to do with the change in the install images
15:31:18 <jlaska> your instincts could be correct, the install.img may not compress well, since it's already compressed
15:31:37 <jlaska> but ...
15:31:42 <robatino> not deltacompressing _well_, i mean - it used to compress by a factor of several, as of F15 it's negligible
15:31:49 <jlaska> well ...
15:31:57 <jlaska> the content really hasn't changed much between F15 and previous
15:32:08 <jlaska> it's just moved from images/install.img into the images/pxeboot/initrd.img
15:32:21 <jlaska> so maybe something about the initial ramdisk naturally doesn't lend well to re-compression or something?
15:32:24 <jlaska> </wag>
15:32:37 <robatino> for example if you run makedeltaiso on 2 successive F14 netinsts, it would be about a factor of 2 or 3 smaller, but not in F15
15:32:59 <robatino> quantified in http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-May/100449.html
15:33:18 <jlaska> #info if you run makedeltaiso on 2 successive F14 netinsts, it would be about a factor of 2 or 3 smaller, but not in F15
15:33:21 <jlaska> nice data
15:33:27 <robatino> not that big a deal, was wondering if there was some trivial way to fix it
15:33:43 <jlaska> I'm just not very experienced with delta-iso ... we can definitely hit up clumens to work through your thoughts on the install.img if you like
15:33:56 <robatino> would be nice to get back to a minimum size of 60-70 M instead of about 200 M now
15:34:02 <jlaska> yeah
15:34:09 <jlaska> otherwise, defeats the purposed I would think
15:34:19 * adamw thought robatino was the expert on deltaiso
15:34:27 <adamw> no point _you_ asking _us_ for help :P
15:34:27 <jlaska> he is!
15:34:42 <jlaska> I believe robatino is known in some circles as, "Mr. Delta ISO"
15:34:46 <robatino> no, i don't really know the internals, jdieter is the expert
15:34:59 <robatino> it's just very easy to use which is why i can do it
15:35:01 <jlaska> did he have any thoughts on this?
15:35:18 <robatino> haven't asked yet, he's been away, i could email anyway
15:35:19 <jlaska> s/ [s]he /
15:35:23 <jlaska> okay
15:35:37 <jlaska> well, lemme know if I can help chase down the install.img angle with you
15:35:48 <jlaska> otherwise, we'll stay tuned :)
15:35:53 <jlaska> #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>
15:36:15 <brunowolff> Deltaiso might need to get special knowledge of the initrd so it can uncompress another level deep before doing comparisons.
15:36:43 <athmane> ovirt spin
15:36:53 <jlaska> #topic oVirt Node Fedora 16 Spin
15:36:59 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-July/101362.html
15:37:02 <jlaska> athmane: thanks :)
15:37:16 <athmane> I can help with that
15:37:34 <jlaska> so, I'm providing guidance to Joey so that they follow a similar model that athmane setup ... that seems like the best approach to me, and works with our existing process
15:37:35 <athmane> I asked for kickstart and applications list
15:37:59 <jlaska> #info There is a link of "applications"/ tests on the SPIN wiki at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ovirt_Node_Spin#Scope_.2F_Testing
15:38:11 <jlaska> I don't know if that's explicitly the info you are looking for
15:38:43 <jlaska> imo, this seems to fit well with the matrix model we've been using so far ... so unless any other ideas surface, I'll likely keep messaging that route
15:39:03 <athmane> well I'll look after the meeting
15:39:26 <jlaska> athmane: maybe copy the security SPIN matrix you created with some stubs for the oVirt needs to provide some visualization of what we're talking about?
15:39:29 <jlaska> athmane: okay
15:39:48 <jlaska> #info Athmane + jlaska will continue discussing options post-meeting
15:39:54 <jlaska> #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>
15:39:59 <jlaska> okay ... last call for topics
15:40:46 <athmane> is it approved by rel-eng
15:42:18 <jlaska> okay ... if nothing else ... we'll #endmeeting in 2 minutes
15:43:20 <jlaska> will #endmeeting in 1 minute ...
15:44:08 <jlaska> Well ... before ending, I could touch on the last topic ...
15:44:12 <jlaska> #topic Next meeting ...
15:44:24 <jlaska> #info Monday @ 15:00 UTC, July 25 2011
15:44:37 <jlaska> Is anyone interested in #chairing the meeting?
15:44:57 <jlaska> If not ... you're stuck with me continuing to nag for topics :)
15:45:08 <jlaska> #info jlaska will #chair the meeting next week
15:45:12 <jlaska> alrighty ...thanks everything
15:45:17 <jlaska> *and everyone :)
15:45:22 <jlaska> #endmeeting