20:00:28 <stickster> #startmeeting Insight
20:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 31 20:00:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:32 <stickster> #meetingname Insight
20:00:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'insight'
20:00:37 <stickster> #topic Roll call!
20:00:43 * averi is around!
20:00:47 <stickster> #link http://tinyurl.com/insight-agenda <-- Agenda
20:00:48 <asrob> hey again :)
20:00:56 <stickster> #chair averi asrob
20:00:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: asrob averi stickster
20:01:05 <stickster> #info pcalarco sends regrets but hopes to be here next week
20:01:58 <averi> stickster, please remember to update us about the insight's interview at the end of the meeting :)
20:02:41 <stickster> #info stickster hasn't had interview yet, due to unexpected family circumstances last week
20:02:59 <stickster> I'm trying to get it rescheduled for end of this week.
20:03:10 <averi> awesome :)
20:03:11 <stickster> Well, I guess it's just us then!
20:03:20 <stickster> #topic Last meeting's action items
20:04:00 <stickster> #info 2, 4, 5 are all done. I haven't emailed hiemanshu again but I talked to him directly on IRC. (#1)
20:04:30 <stickster> averi, I think we finished all the insight01.dev puppetization at this point, right?
20:04:55 <averi> stickster, exactly, everything should be OK now, did we setup the backup_migrate module already there?
20:05:04 <stickster> averi, Yes, it's there
20:05:08 <stickster> I've used it once already myself :-)
20:05:37 <stickster> #info 1 and 3 are done -- that's everything!
20:05:42 <averi> did you set up a profile with the scheduled backups happening daily?
20:05:43 <stickster> #topic Puppetization status
20:06:12 <stickster> averi, I haven't put in any profiles. Where are these being backed up to, exactly?
20:06:58 <averi> if I remember it right you can choose the destination directory, i.e you can point it to your home dir or to somewhere else more protected. /me will check for it at the end of meeting
20:07:59 <stickster> averi, Do you want to check that on the production host too, or just dev?
20:08:24 <stickster> Is it possible to include that setting in our basic features module?
20:09:07 <stickster> asrob, ^^ do you know?
20:09:09 <averi> it should apply to both production and dev, but i'll check on the dev istance first to avoid any kind of issues :)
20:09:11 <asrob> I am checking it now ;)
20:09:16 <stickster> thanks asrob :-)
20:09:52 <stickster> #action averi check and set a backup profile on the insight01.dev host
20:10:35 <stickster> The other thing I did fix in puppet also was to put in an automated cron job for pulling down our features from the git repo on a half-hour basis
20:11:08 <averi> cool :)
20:11:15 <asrob> stickster, averi: http://rookery9.aviary.com.s3.amazonaws.com/8323000/8323192_dc68.png
20:11:27 <stickster> #info at :25 and :55 every hour, the stuff in our fedora-insight-features repo gets pulled down to the insight01.dev host
20:11:29 <averi> stickster, btw I can set up the module to send out a mail with the backup attached
20:11:38 <averi> i.e with our mails
20:11:53 <averi> or the list's mail, but I think we should go for a local dir
20:12:09 <stickster> I don't think those should go to list mail, large attachments are usually stripped anyway.
20:12:44 <averi> stickster, apache need write access to the dir we gonna send the backup out
20:12:56 <averi> and that's a problem, our home dirs are not writable by apache
20:12:58 <stickster> averi, If it's a local dir then we don't get any redundancy if the server itself goes kerblooey
20:13:53 <averi> mm..you are right, if the server gets broken we will lose our backups as well :)
20:14:01 <averi> do you want me to add your e-mail for backups?
20:14:13 <stickster> What if we save local backups to something like /etc/drupal6/default/ ?
20:14:26 <asrob> hm, I can not add the settings of backup and migrate module into our basic insight features
20:14:29 <stickster> That should be writeable by the system
20:14:33 <stickster> asrob, :-(
20:14:47 * stickster doesn't like writing to /etc, that's a crap way of doing business.
20:14:52 <averi> stickster, /etc/drupal6/default/backups?
20:14:55 <stickster> Maybe /var/lib/drupal6/ would --
20:14:56 <stickster> yeah.
20:15:06 <averi> sounds good, let me see
20:15:11 <stickster> /var/lib/drupal6/sites/default/backups
20:16:16 <stickster> averi, Since there is no authentication information stored on the server, and we won't be backing up any session information by default, if we put those backups in a retrievable area, any of us could have a cron job anywhere to retrieve them.
20:16:36 <stickster> I wouldn't want to fill people's email boxes with big attachments.
20:16:40 <averi> exactly, ok
20:16:54 <averi> there is an option for sending out logs about good/bad backups
20:16:55 <asrob> stickster: I can probably add the settings of your authfas module into basic insight features with strongarm module, I am going to test it after the meeting ;)
20:17:04 <averi> but I won't enable it
20:17:06 <stickster> averi, /var/lib/drupal6/files/default/backups/ looks like it might be the thing
20:17:21 <stickster> asrob, I was looking at strongarm last week before I left, yes
20:17:22 <averi> is it apache writable?
20:17:29 <stickster> asrob, It probably means code changes in authfas module itself.
20:17:34 <stickster> averi, It should be, yes.
20:17:41 <stickster> It's apache owned, 775.
20:18:02 <stickster> averi,  The 'backups' dir doesn't exist yet but the parent does
20:18:14 <stickster> averi, If we need that backup to exist that will need to be puppetized too
20:19:18 <averi> stickster, ok, done. And do we want a daily backup?
20:19:26 <averi> hourly? weekly?
20:20:16 * averi thinks daily should be enough
20:20:51 <asrob> +1
20:20:53 <stickster> averi, daily seems plenty to me
20:20:57 <stickster> +1 daily
20:21:13 <stickster> #agreed Backups are daily from insight01.dev for now.
20:21:34 <stickster> averi, Am I correct that we're not grabbing session info in that backup? (That's the default setting in backup_migrate.)
20:22:02 <averi> mmm...good question
20:22:14 <averi> I can exclude some of the DB tables we don't want
20:22:29 <averi> can you tell me which db tables should be removed from backups?
20:22:51 <stickster> averi, No -- but by default, all the tables are selected *except* for session info tables. So you shouldn't need to change anything.
20:23:04 <asrob> stickster: the default profile excludes session, cache* tables
20:23:10 <averi> ok, perfect
20:23:14 <asrob> and wathcdog
20:23:16 <averi> schedule is ready
20:23:16 <stickster> Yup, that's correct, and I think "watchdog" too which is also good
20:23:16 <asrob> wathcdog
20:23:20 <averi> and will happen daily from now
20:23:21 <stickster> *jinx
20:23:24 * averi tries a manual backup now
20:23:28 <stickster> OK, we're good to go here then :-)
20:24:10 <averi> stickster, http://fpaste.org/gOpe/
20:24:13 * averi logs in to check
20:24:31 <stickster> Let's not take up the meeting doing technical work that theoretically we should be able to do any time
20:24:42 * stickster wants to move on to discuss Phase 2 ideas on the wiki
20:24:53 <stickster> averi, Perfect -- that means we don't need to puppetize!
20:25:01 <averi> and here we go: insight-DB-2011-05-31T20-22-54.mysql
20:25:02 <averi> :)
20:25:27 <stickster> Moving on?
20:25:34 <asrob> yeah
20:25:36 <averi> sure thing
20:25:51 <stickster> #topic Phase 2 ideas
20:25:56 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight_project_plan#Phase_2 <-- idea queue
20:26:01 <averi> stickster, when I start talking about technical stuff, I usually never end, sorry
20:26:15 <stickster> averi, It's a common problem among techies, I do it too :-)
20:26:21 <asrob> :)
20:26:38 <stickster> Let's look at some of these ideas and make sure they're described well
20:26:45 <averi> stickster, I would like the calendar idea to go live asap :)
20:27:13 <averi> I am getting some problems while connecting to the Fedora wiki right now
20:27:15 <averi> is it just me?
20:27:21 <stickster> averi, The nice thing about Features is that we don't have to deliver a big lump of features only at one time
20:27:39 <stickster> averi, I think it's just you -- works fine here
20:27:51 <asrob> it works fine here as well
20:29:38 <averi> wow, that's a very nice wishlist
20:30:16 <averi> is the packaging side done for all the modules described there?
20:30:35 <stickster> averi, No, probably not. Let's figure out a way to attack this list before we get buried in details.
20:30:40 <stickster> How about this:
20:31:05 <stickster> 1. Under each idea, make a list of modules needed (unless already there)
20:31:16 <stickster> 2. Link to review bugs for modules
20:31:38 <stickster> (if a module isn't made, then it's up to someone here to package it and add it to the InsightReviews tracker)
20:32:31 <stickster> 3. I would also recommend that for each of these we try to make a few more notes on how the user interaction works. For example, for the calendar idea... who's allowed to add events?
20:32:47 <stickster> and so forth
20:33:03 <averi> +1 from me.
20:33:04 <asrob> I like this, +1
20:33:24 <averi> I think we should go on one max two points at once
20:33:41 <stickster> So let's start with the calendar idea then.
20:33:42 <averi> focusing on three-four things at once can take in problems and confusion :)
20:35:08 <stickster> I don't see Event module here. What's the diff between Calendar, Date, and Event?
20:35:32 <asrob> event module is not ready for drupal 6, I think
20:35:46 <asrob> it is in -dev(?)
20:36:15 <asrob> yeah, it is, http://drupal.org/project/event
20:36:30 <Southern_Gentlem> would cod cover it all?
20:37:00 <asrob> but we can create custom content type and can add custom field into that ;)
20:37:03 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem, That's an event management program, different kettle of fish. Worthwhile for considering later but that's why we want hiemanshu to come here and talk to us.
20:37:11 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem, It's kind of like swatting a fly with a battleship
20:37:36 <averi> stickster, /me is not aware of the difference between the above quoted modules
20:37:53 <stickster> averi, asrob, Let's back up for a moment and think about the idea a little more clearly. Who are the anticipated users of the calendar?
20:37:57 <stickster> What are they seeking to do?
20:37:58 <averi> asrob, what was the event module you linked me that day?
20:38:46 <averi> stickster, mostly putting their events on the calendar and when people connect to the calendar they see what will happen within that week/month
20:38:56 <Southern_Gentlem> calendar could be used to say what meetings are being held that day, what events ambassadors are attending etc
20:39:19 <averi> stickster, a wide view of all the IRC events happening on that specific week
20:39:25 <stickster> averi, Southern_Gentlem -- so this would be for events, IRC channel bookings...
20:39:31 <averi> exactly
20:39:34 <asrob> averi: that was not event module, that was a complete distro, http://usecod.com
20:39:38 <stickster> What about release events? like freezes etc.?
20:39:51 <averi> stickster, that too
20:40:00 <averi> stickster, have you ever seen the Ubuntu's Fridge?
20:40:38 <stickster> Yes, although they're using non-FOSS, i.e. Google Calendar.
20:41:17 <averi> my idea of it is: a big calendar with anything else that might interest a Fedora contributor / developer
20:41:33 <stickster> I quote from their site: "Why Google Calendar? Why not an OSS solution?
20:41:33 <stickster> Its important to understand that we are not being locked into using Google Calendar forever. If the News Team can find a better solution in the future, we can easily migrate away from Google Calendar.
20:41:33 <stickster> The Fridge is currently running Drupal 5. There is no core calendaring functionality. The events module that it has currently does not support repeating events. If a meeting is supposed to be held weekly, 52 separate events have to be created for the year. Obviously, this is not a maintainable process. Other calendar modules were evaluated by the IS team, but they had security vulnerabilities. Also, most development of event modules have sto
20:41:34 <stickster> pped on Drupal 5 and moved on to Drupal 6.
20:41:36 <averi> I am interested in the infra irc meeting, when will it happen? i go to the calendar anc check
20:41:36 <stickster> Drupal 6 handles calendars better. Development of modules supporting repeating events is on-going and will be released in the future. Since we need a solution now, going to Drupal 6 does not solve our problems."
20:41:42 <stickster> Oh whoops -- sorry for flood alert
20:42:11 <stickster> averi, That's a great way to state the underlying user needs for the idea! Let's try to make up more of those!
20:42:12 <averi> I am curious to know when the new Fedora release will come out, great, I go checking the calendar
20:42:20 <averi> etc.
20:42:24 * stickster is writing these down to have a list convo about more
20:43:14 <averi> we should make everyone's life easier, contributors should not go around checking mailing lists to see when something will happen and where
20:43:22 <averi> the calendar will do that for them, all in once.
20:43:37 <stickster> "I want to know the #fedora-meeting room availability for this week."
20:43:57 <averi> exactly, another very good point
20:45:25 * stickster is looking for more of those cases, feel free to say a couple here :-)
20:46:00 <stickster> I want to know what Fedora events are happening in my geo (APAC, LATAM, NA, etc.) next month.
20:46:25 <asrob> wow, our phase 2 will be awesome :)
20:47:30 <averi> or "I would like to know when the timeline for translations will happen" or "I would like to know when a specific freeze will happen and how long will it take for it to end"
20:49:17 <stickster> I'm also recording "Here's how to do this *now*" so we can see where things are too hard -- or where it will take us too much work to fix
20:50:55 <stickster> OK, here's what I'd like to do. I'll take the identi.ca idea listed later.
20:51:43 <stickster> I'm making a list of details to send to the list about the calendar idea, as a template. asrob, could you take the podcast attachment idea, and averi, could you take the podcast announcement idea, and let's break them down the same way
20:51:57 <stickster> I'll do that with the identi.ca idea.
20:52:01 <asrob> stickster: sure
20:52:42 * averi will check stickster's mail before sending his to be sure of what to do exactly :)
20:53:37 <asrob> averi: rules module, you have to create a rule to send a mail to the list for example ;)
20:53:53 <stickster> haha
20:54:06 <stickster> #action stickster finish email to list on calendar ideas
20:54:22 <stickster> #action asrob do the same thing for podcast attachment idea
20:54:27 <stickster> #action averi do the same thing for podcast announcement idea
20:54:36 <stickster> #action stickster do the same thing for identi.ca feed idea
20:54:55 <stickster> There you go -- now we all have homework! Try to finish yours in the next 24 hours, so we can keep momentum up!
20:55:15 <stickster> We'll start with these, then move on to the rest when we're done
20:55:42 <asrob> I got it boss :)
20:56:45 <averi> Allright :)
20:56:55 <stickster> Cool!
20:57:08 <stickster> #agreed We'll look at the rest of the list after we finish parsing through thes
20:57:15 <stickster> #undo
20:57:15 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x166b734c>
20:57:17 <stickster> #agreed We'll look at the rest of the list after we finish parsing through these
20:57:24 <stickster> OK then, that's all I got!
20:57:32 <stickster> Anything else before we close?
20:57:51 <averi> nothing I can think of right now :)
20:58:06 <asrob> can we talk about git workflow on -mktg channel?
20:58:17 <asrob> I have a simple question
20:58:25 <stickster> asrob, certainly
20:58:31 <asrob> okay
20:58:32 <stickster> OK then, off we go!
20:58:34 <stickster> #endmeeting