15:00:02 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:00:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr 18 15:00:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:05 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:10 <jlaska> #topic Roll Call
15:00:18 <adamw> yo
15:00:20 * tflink is present
15:00:24 <jlaska> Come one, come all ... to the weekly QA-a-thon!
15:00:46 * StylusEater is present
15:00:49 <tflink> wait, I thought this was only supposed to last an hour at most ...
15:01:08 <jlaska> tflink: hah, I've secretly switched your regular meeting with a blocker review meeting
15:01:23 <jlaska> welcome adamw tflink StylusEater
15:01:31 * adamw falls to knees, clutches head and screams at sky
15:01:31 <tflink> jlaska: another >4hr meeting? Sounds awesome :-/
15:01:33 <adamw> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
15:01:37 <jlaska> :P
15:01:42 <jlaska> tflink: sign me up!
15:02:11 <jlaska> Anyone else?  I think kparal might not be able to make it today
15:02:29 <jlaska> robatino, Viking-Ice, vhumpa, jskladan ... anyone else I'm missing
15:02:35 * kparal lurks and leaves in 10 mins
15:02:40 <jlaska> lurker! :)
15:02:41 * robatino here
15:02:46 * jsmith lurks
15:02:48 <jlaska> hi folks
15:02:52 * vhumpa here here
15:02:54 <tflink> jlaska: says the guy who disappeared for an hour last time :-P
15:03:00 <jlaska> tflink: busted :)
15:03:22 <jlaska> okay, let's get moving ...
15:03:31 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:03:51 <jlaska> This is pretty tame ... the only item I had on the list was Adamw noted he would followup on the virt test day prep
15:03:59 <jlaska> and it seems like that happened, so thanks adamw
15:04:13 <adamw> yeah, justin said he had it all under control and he did
15:04:14 <jlaska> Speaking of ... rhe did some nice work re-organizing the test cases on the wiki
15:04:15 * jskladan is here
15:04:26 <jlaska> hi jskladan
15:05:12 <jlaska> I haven't heard back on the event yet, but seems like we did have participation.  It feels like it was more than previous virt events, but I don't have data to compare yet
15:05:17 <jlaska> anyway ... that's all I had from last week
15:05:27 <jlaska> anything else before we move on?
15:05:55 <jlaska> #topic F-15-Beta status
15:06:10 <jlaska> So, this will be short and sweet :)
15:06:12 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2011-April/000226.html
15:06:27 <jlaska> The Beta was declared GOLD last week, and should be hitting mirrors starting tomorrow I believe
15:06:54 <tflink> there is a pending change to the pre-release download page, too
15:07:02 <jlaska> Just a few reminder links for folks as we triage incoming issues ...
15:07:05 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F15_bugs
15:07:11 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_15_QA_Retrospective
15:07:15 <tflink> that will direct people to #fedora-qa or test@ for support on the beta
15:07:30 <adamw> i've pretty much done commonbugs
15:07:38 <jlaska> adamw: I saw that ... amazing work
15:07:38 <adamw> all the alpha issues are 'tagged' for easy removal when the beta hits
15:07:59 <adamw> if anyone can think of any bugs that should be called out there...do add them or tag the bug with the commonbugs keyword
15:08:02 <jlaska> there was one CLOSED anaconda bug I'm going to add to the list, since it will not be fixed until F16
15:08:05 <adamw> nice
15:08:23 <tflink> so we may have an increase in the number of common questions that might have otherwise gone to #fedora
15:08:35 <jlaska> tflink: good point, thanks for the heads up
15:08:47 <jlaska> anything we need to consider or do differently to handle these questions?
15:09:01 <jlaska> or just be mindful and try to point folks to the right places?
15:09:16 <StylusEater> is the "infamously" flamed RAID/mdadm bug fixed? :-)
15:09:17 <tflink> I can't think of anything other than being patient and aware of the possible influx of new people
15:09:46 <adamw> StylusEater: not sure what bug you mean.
15:09:58 <jlaska> StylusEater: apparently it wasn't that infamous :)
15:09:59 <adamw> StylusEater: if you mean the one discussed on devel, then as soon as you do an update, you'll get a fixed mdadm.
15:10:11 <StylusEater> adamw: yes that is the one.
15:10:43 <jlaska> ah that thread :)
15:11:01 <jlaska> #694958 I think
15:11:08 <jlaska> anyway, so that's all I had on F-15-Beta
15:11:20 <jlaska> thanks tflink for the reminder about new testers arriving in a channel near us soon
15:11:41 <tflink> jlaska: np
15:11:55 <jlaska> We already have a good list of F15 QA retrospective topics on the wiki ... please drop notes there for things that worked well, or poorly
15:12:11 <jlaska> If nothing else on the Beta, I'll move on
15:12:26 <jlaska> #topic Upcoming QA events
15:12:48 <jlaska> #info Thursday, April 21 - GNOME3 Test Day #3 - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-04-21_GNOME3_Final
15:13:00 <jlaska> coming this Thursday, the last of the GNOME3 test days
15:13:25 <jlaska> vhumpa: how's the prep work going?
15:13:34 <vhumpa> Yes - the page is moreorless coming to its final looks now - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-04-21_GNOME3_Final
15:13:44 <adamw> this time we have managed to avoid an upstream release week, but have hit with ninja-like precision the week in which mclasen is on vacation
15:14:22 <vhumpa> We have reorganized the test cases as you can see, basically - the issues that were part of the "second" table to go first together with the most problematic issues
15:14:31 <jlaska> adamw: doh!  Is there someone (or a group of people) who are available in his place?
15:14:40 * StylusEater raises hand
15:14:46 <adamw> yeah, caillon will probably be around, maybe a few others.
15:14:55 <jlaska> cool
15:14:58 <jlaska> StylusEater: what's up?
15:14:59 <adamw> StylusEater: we mean 'people from the desktop team' :)
15:15:10 <jlaska> ah
15:15:15 <adamw> vhumpa: the 'workspaces' test case seems to be missing?
15:15:18 <StylusEater> jlaska: I am editing the wiki and was wondering if QA is considered a SIG or a formal project?
15:15:33 <vhumpa> adamw: yes, I still have to write that one :)
15:16:08 <jsmith> StylusEater: My own opinion is that it's a formal project, although I'm not sure it's ever been documented as such
15:16:16 <vhumpa> It's pretty much only idea for a new test case I got together with rlat from desktop team
15:17:06 <jlaska> StylusEater: as jsmith notes, I'm not sure if it's ever been defined
15:17:37 <vhumpa> adamw: It was covered a little bit in "dash" before, but we deem it deserves it's own better test case since multiple desktops has changed singnificantly
15:17:46 <adamw> vhumpa: sounds good
15:17:55 <StylusEater> jlaska: OK I see a bunch of "suggestions" not to add something that isn't a formal project to certain pages. I'm editing the wiki and asking this question b/c QA wasn't super easy to find until I scrolled/searched.
15:17:56 <adamw> nice catch
15:18:44 <jlaska> StylusEater: if you like, we can talk more about that in open-discussion shortly
15:18:59 <StylusEater> jlaska: noted. sorry for interrupting.
15:19:00 <jlaska> how are we set for announcements for the test day
15:19:09 <jlaska> StylusEater: no worries at all
15:19:30 <vhumpa> adamw: I won't be available until wednesday, so if you have any ideas/comments please let me know and I will implement them as soon as I hit office again
15:19:56 <adamw> vhumpa: i just threw you an email with a couple of minor notes, but mostly it looks great
15:20:16 <adamw> do you have a plan for announcements, or shall I do it? if you're not going to be around till wed maybe best if i do it
15:20:23 <vhumpa> adamw: I see it, thanks
15:21:18 <jlaska> anything different we need to do with the announcements, or the usual fedoraplanet and test-announce?
15:21:29 <adamw> i do more for these
15:21:45 <adamw> they go out to phoronix, lwn, distrowatch and stuff
15:21:52 <jlaska> ooh, nice
15:21:53 <adamw> for this one i might go nuts and try and get it on slashdot, which would be fun
15:22:02 <jlaska> I'd say
15:22:03 <adamw> (since it's 3.0 final)
15:22:29 <jlaska> adamw: do you want help with those announcements?
15:22:52 <adamw> not really, it's mostly just cut-n-paste
15:22:57 <adamw> and the mighty power of CC:
15:23:02 <jlaska> heh
15:23:06 <jlaska> alrighty
15:23:18 <jlaska> nice work vhumpa and adamw ... this will be another fun test day
15:23:30 <jlaska> #info Thursday, April 28 - Cloud SIG Test Day - http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/169
15:24:02 <tflink> I pinged the cloud SIG list last week but still haven't heard anything back from them directly
15:24:17 <jlaska> tflink: thank you for doing that
15:24:35 <tflink> looking through the meetbot logs from their meeting last friday, it looks like they are planning to have EC2 beta AMI images ready early this week
15:24:59 <jlaska> oh, would those then be used for the test day?
15:25:12 <tflink> there don't seem to be any concrete plans for the test day, but boxgrinder was mentioned
15:25:26 <tflink> jlaska: not sure, I think so though
15:25:45 <tflink> I'm planning to step up my level of being a pest later today
15:25:55 <jlaska> hah .. okay, thanks for staying on top of that
15:26:01 <tflink> so we can get started on some test cases etc.
15:26:24 <jlaska> tflink: I'm happy to take action items from you for test case work ... I'm curious how all this stuff works anyway
15:26:41 <jlaska> we can catch up during the week on that
15:26:58 <jlaska> That's all I had for upcoming QA events
15:26:59 <tflink> jlaska: there aren't really any test cases at the moment, but I'll gladly take you up on that if/when there are action items
15:27:16 <jlaska> #info Friday, April 22 - Blocker review marathon
15:27:23 <jlaska> tflink: roger
15:27:47 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - <Your topic here>
15:28:00 <jlaska> okay, that's all I had on the agenda, anything folks wanted to discuss?
15:28:13 <jlaska> StylusEater: you mentioned something about QA as a SIG or a project?
15:28:23 <StylusEater> yes
15:28:55 <StylusEater> I read the guidelines and only the board can "anoint" QA as a formal project
15:29:16 <StylusEater> the reason my question came up is I wanted to edit the wiki and put QA under the project area
15:29:43 <adamw> well, our page describes QA as a project twice in the first line. "Welcome to the Fedora QA project page. Fedora QA is the project which covers all testing of the software that makes up Fedora."
15:29:56 <adamw> but i don't know any of the 'formal' crap.
15:29:58 <StylusEater> adamw: I read that too.
15:30:04 <jlaska> yeah, me neither
15:30:19 <jlaska> StylusEater: you want it listed on the left-nav side bar under sub-projects?
15:30:23 <adamw> since BugZappers is a sub-project of QA, though, it's quite odd the have BugZappers in that list and not QA>
15:30:41 <StylusEater> jlaska: yes among other places...
15:30:45 <jlaska> yeah, I would think we'd want the other way around
15:31:08 <StylusEater> adamw: yes. That is potentially confusing for n00bs.
15:31:32 <jlaska> StylusEater: is the process defined for how you get blessing from the board, is this just a matter of filing a ticket?
15:31:45 <StylusEater> jlaska: yes it is. One moment, let me find the link.
15:31:51 <adamw> and where's the Official List Of Board-Blessed Projects?
15:31:55 <StylusEater> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects
15:32:38 <StylusEater> jlaska: basically it requires administrative stuff like reporting so the board can judge the long-term sustainability of the "project"
15:33:58 <StylusEater> adamw: I believe here... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Projects
15:34:54 <jlaska> I have no idea what tasks/activities aren't currently done in QA, that would need to happen to get "project" status
15:34:55 <adamw> the sub-projects list already isn't a 1-to-1 map of that list. but cool, thanks for digging this out
15:35:59 <jlaska> so, where to go from here?  Is this worth a mail to advisory-board@ to figure out what is needed to get blessing?
15:36:15 <adamw> probably.
15:36:23 <adamw> or a ticket would be better.
15:36:24 <StylusEater> adamw: yw
15:36:37 <StylusEater> QA is important so I figured I'd bring it up.
15:36:57 <jlaska> well, that's the easy part, I can ask the dumb questions at least
15:37:36 <jlaska> assuming this is just some wiki updates, this should be straight forward.  Otherwise, we'll review any process gaps and decide how to proceed
15:37:40 <adamw> i can do it too, either way is fine
15:38:08 <jlaska> #action jlaska reach out to advisory-board@ for guidance on becoming an official project
15:38:45 <jlaska> adamw: I don't mind either
15:38:51 <adamw> you go for it then
15:38:54 <jlaska> StylusEater: thanks for raising this topic
15:39:05 <StylusEater> jlaska: yw
15:39:11 <jlaska> #info StylusEater asked whether QA was a project or a SIG
15:39:16 <jlaska> Anything else for Open-discussion
15:39:16 <jlaska> ?
15:39:30 <jlaska> otherwise, I think many of us are meeting'd out
15:39:31 <jlaska> :)
15:40:10 <jlaska> okay, let's set the fuse for 1 minute
15:40:15 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - last call
15:41:07 <jlaska> 10 seconds ...
15:41:15 <jlaska> Thanks for your time everyone
15:41:20 <jlaska> I'll send minutes to the list this afternoon
15:41:22 <jlaska> #endmeeting