21:00:30 <rbergeron> #startmeeting Fedora 15 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting
21:00:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 13 21:00:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:00:39 <rbergeron> #meetingname Fedora 15 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting
21:00:39 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_15_beta_go/no-go_meeting'
21:00:54 <rbergeron> #topic Roll Call!
21:00:57 <jsmith> Hmmmn... not sure having a slash in the meeting name is going to make meetbot happy
21:01:00 * jsmith is here!
21:01:04 <rbergeron> oh, now.
21:01:13 <rbergeron> I like to keep meetbot on it's toes.
21:01:16 <rbergeron> err.
21:01:18 <rbergeron> its
21:01:23 * rbergeron slaps herself with the grammar stick
21:01:38 <rbergeron> Do we have a jlaska, adamw, dgilmore, nirik in the house?
21:01:54 <rbergeron> #info Need representatoin from QA, Rel-eng, fesco.
21:02:01 * rbergeron will hold a moment
21:03:08 * dgilmore is here
21:03:26 <rbergeron> hi!
21:03:42 <adamw> yo
21:03:47 <rbergeron> hi adam!
21:03:48 * red_alert is watching you ;)
21:04:08 * adamw dispatches the ninjas
21:04:13 <rbergeron> excellent. stalkers ;)
21:04:47 <rbergeron> Alrighty. Nirik is about-ish, I told him I'd ping him extra-hard if/when we need him (he's tangled up with vet-related stuff also)
21:05:06 <rbergeron> #topic Why we're here:
21:05:17 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Engineering_Readiness_Meetings
21:05:52 * nirik is here
21:05:56 <rbergeron> #info In a nutshell: we are gathered today to determine if release criteria have been met and if the release can be considered GOLD.
21:05:59 <rbergeron> GOLD!
21:06:10 <rbergeron> And so, without further ado:
21:06:19 <rbergeron> #topic review of release criteria and so forth
21:06:33 <rbergeron> adamw: Would you like to brief us on our lack of blockers and complete test matrices? :)
21:06:47 <rbergeron> #chair adamw nirik dgilmore jsmith
21:06:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw dgilmore jsmith nirik rbergeron
21:06:56 <adamw> why yes I would!
21:07:14 <rbergeron> Awesome.
21:07:26 <adamw> rejoice in the beefy miracle that is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=657618&hide_resolved=1
21:07:50 <adamw> there's one beta blocking bug still marked as open, but mainly because we have one reporter still having trouble with it; there _is_ a fix for it in RC2, and jlaska tested multiple times that it worked.
21:08:10 <adamw> we're trying to understand the reporter's issue, but we suspect he may have got a non-fixed NM in the upgrade from f14, then got the 'fixed' NM later; it doesn't work like that.
21:08:14 <dgilmore> adamw: im good with saying its nota  blocker
21:08:28 <nirik> sounds like impact is low if it's not hitting many people.
21:08:29 * rbergeron nods
21:08:32 <adamw> and yeah, even if it does turn out to be still broken, it's one with an easy workaround: enable NetworkManager service.
21:08:43 <adamw> so we can except it that way.
21:08:47 <dgilmore> we can document that
21:09:03 <adamw> yeah - once we're confident of the Truth, we'll document if necessary
21:09:07 <fenrus02> adamw, is that going to work if you need bridging for kvm ?
21:09:13 <fenrus02> (or vlans or anything else NM fails on)
21:09:19 <adamw> fenrus02: it's not relevant
21:09:25 <fenrus02> ok
21:09:27 <adamw> fenrus02: this bug is 'NetworkManager service gets disabled on an upgrade'
21:09:32 <adamw> if you're not using NM...then it's irrelevant
21:10:24 <adamw> so, that's it for open blockers
21:10:27 <adamw> as far as matrices go:
21:10:28 * rbergeron would like to propose #agreed - remaining blocker, bz 657618, is in verified, only hitting one person, fix is in RC2 already.
21:10:33 <rbergeron> oh
21:10:39 <rbergeron> and ... should not block.
21:10:40 <rbergeron> :)
21:10:43 <adamw> rbergeron: ah sorry
21:10:45 <adamw> agreed!
21:11:04 <nirik> +1
21:11:14 <dgilmore> +1
21:11:16 <rbergeron> #agreed - remaining blocker, bz 657618, is in verified, only hitting one person, fix is in RC2 already, should not block the release.
21:11:28 <rbergeron> hhhsorry, didn't mean to interrupt your excellent flow there, adamw
21:11:37 <rbergeron> ... or have random h's showing up on my screen
21:11:38 <adamw> npnp, my bad
21:11:40 <adamw> matrices:
21:11:45 <adamw> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_15_Beta_RC2_Desktop
21:11:50 <adamw> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_15_Beta_RC2_Install
21:12:28 <adamw> summary: these are looking very good, no real worrying bugs
21:12:34 <adamw> pretty good coverage
21:12:50 <adamw> there's nothing in the Xfce column but I did go and check and make sure it boots and doesn't obviously set anything on fire
21:13:06 * dgilmore should do the xfce tests
21:13:13 <dgilmore> since i run it and i know ist working :)
21:13:25 <adamw> I know cwickert was a bit sad that we missed a significant change in LXDE, but the image we have doesn't actually break any criteria and does _work_, it's just not quite how he wanted it to be for the beta (background's missing when booted live and stuff)
21:13:29 * nirik makes note to add a flamethrower plugin to the default xfce desktop so it can set things on fire. ;)
21:13:58 <adamw> and just to recap, of course, only 'desktop' and KDE get to block the release, and we have good coverage for those.
21:14:01 * rbergeron tries to be mature and not actually action that ;)
21:14:01 * jlaska arrives late
21:14:08 <adamw> so...from all those standpoints, we are looking good.
21:14:10 * nirik nods.
21:14:27 * dgilmore says we are good for GOLD
21:14:28 <adamw> I am now struggling with my conscience as to whether to raise the annoying bug dmalcolm just noticed so we can argue about it for a while, because these meetings are much more fun that way.
21:14:35 * rbergeron thanks everyone for all their hard work in doing testing and bugs resolving :)
21:14:54 <cwickert> adamw: *all* settings for pcmanfm, lxpanel and openbox are missing/outdated
21:15:19 <adamw> cwickert: that does not in fact constitute breaking the beta criteria =) do they get fixed when you update, btw?
21:15:27 <cwickert> it's not just a cosmetic thing with the wallpaper
21:15:32 <cwickert> of course they got fixed
21:15:36 * rbergeron hands adamw a broom and lets him use his judgement
21:15:55 <adamw> i mean, it's not a case where the settings 'stick' to the old values on an upgrade, and you'd need them to be 'right' when installing
21:15:56 * nb wonders why kde gets to block the release and the other non-default spins don't?
21:16:06 <adamw> nb: let's not go over that _again_.
21:16:07 <nb> although i guess that's not an issue for this meeting
21:16:20 <rbergeron> yes, please. :)
21:16:27 <jlaska> nb: yes :)
21:16:31 <adamw> so...fine, let's argue a bit!
21:16:45 <adamw> #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=694928
21:16:52 <adamw> to summarize: bloody turkish.
21:17:05 <adamw> the impact of this bug is probably that you can't install in turkish.
21:17:40 <adamw> that means it falls under our "hand-wave", which i reproduce here in all its weaselly glory:
21:17:42 <adamw> "There may be times where a requirement is unmet only in a particular configuration, such as with some keyboard layouts but not others, or if a particular character is used in a username, password or passphrase. In such cases, the release team should use their judgment and refer to precedent to determine whether or not the issue should be considered to block the release. They should consider the number of users likely to be affected by the issue, the s
21:17:42 <adamw> everity of the case when the issue is encountered, and the ease or otherwise with which the issue can be avoided by both informed and uninformed users. "
21:18:02 <adamw> the workaround for this is probably 'don't install in turkish'. i don't know if we can ship an updates.img as an alternative workaround.
21:18:06 <rbergeron> Has anyone actually reported that they are unable to install?
21:18:12 <adamw> rbergeron: yeah, the person who reported the bug.
21:18:12 * jlaska pulling up
21:18:14 <rbergeron> Other than the original report
21:18:21 <jlaska> is it an install issue, or a misconfiguration issue?
21:18:31 * jlaska wills firefox to not crash
21:18:34 <adamw> jlaska: it's the classic bug with turkish which comes up all the damn time
21:18:37 * jsmith isn't aware of anyone else, but doesn't pretend to live in bugzilla like adamw and jlaska
21:18:40 <rbergeron> And it looks like it automagically filed.
21:18:55 <jlaska> oh oh, reported against F14
21:19:09 <adamw> rbergeron: not exactly - it's an anaconda crash report. when anaconda crashes you get to file one. the fact that anaconda crashes...well, figure it out from there.
21:19:13 <adamw> jlaska: ooh, is it? missed that.
21:19:32 <jlaska> may also be broken in 15 as well though
21:19:34 <adamw> jlaska or I could do a quick turkish install if we want data.
21:19:38 <adamw> yeah, i think so, if it's on python side.
21:19:44 <dgilmore> if its a f14 bug oh well
21:19:46 <dgilmore> :)
21:19:55 <jlaska> I'm less worried if this is broken in all releases
21:20:06 <adamw> it may be that you only hit this if you do something at the partitioning screen, i guess.
21:20:15 * adamw sets up a vm
21:20:20 <adamw> shouldn't take long
21:20:24 * rbergeron sends adamw a turkish delight
21:20:28 <jlaska> :)
21:21:08 <rbergeron> So. In the meantime.
21:21:25 <rbergeron> For efficiency's sake: Does anyone else have any other blocking issues related to release?
21:21:29 <dgilmore> rbergeron: i have a bag of snack sized ones here
21:21:32 <rbergeron> dgilmore: everything is well on your front? :)
21:21:39 <adamw> that's all we have.
21:21:39 <dgilmore> rbergeron: i say we ship
21:21:53 * nirik knows of no blockers. Is +1 to ship.
21:22:12 <rbergeron> alrighty. Let's see what adamw comes up with here just to be on the safe side.
21:22:25 * rbergeron notes this bug literally got added within the past hour
21:22:46 <adamw> goddamnit, now i get to answer questions in turkish.
21:22:51 <rbergeron> (added to blockers list)
21:23:10 <adamw> rbergeron: dmalcolm only just asked me about procedure
21:23:15 <jlaska> There is one already VERIFIED NetworkManager issue regarding upgrades (678553).  The primary upgrade method (anaconda/preupgrade) is confirmed working
21:24:01 <jlaska> There _may_ be exposure for other upgrade mechanisms (such as yum distro-sync).  We don't know yet, and that method isn't documented in the installation guide, and has an easy documentable workaround
21:24:50 <jlaska> Should this turn out to impact yum distro-sync ... I'm comfortable documenting the workaround for that upgrade scenario
21:24:54 <adamw> so, i do hit this in f15 beta (not sure rc1 or rc2, shouldn't matter) if i go to the custom partitioning screen
21:24:58 <adamw> let me see if i hit it if i _don't_
21:25:06 <adamw> jlaska: we already discussed that one
21:25:18 <jlaska> adamw: apologies, thanks for raising that already
21:26:17 <adamw> i think if you only hit this by installing in turkish *and* hitting the advanced partitioning screen, we can declare it workaround-able.
21:26:33 <dgilmore> adamw: i agree
21:26:53 <rbergeron> adamw: but not hitting it for a standard turkish install?
21:26:54 <dgilmore> adamw: i say we document it
21:27:25 <adamw> rbergeron: if you don't hit the custom partitioning screen somehow, nope, don't hit it
21:27:30 <adamw> it's happily installing packages atm
21:27:36 <nirik> cool.
21:27:55 <rbergeron> Excellent.
21:28:01 <jlaska> yay
21:28:05 <adamw> so, propose #agreed 694928 is not significant enough to add as a late beta blocker, we will document for beta
21:28:13 <nirik> agreed
21:28:19 <rbergeron> agreed.
21:28:25 <jlaska> a topic for another meeting, but how well translated are we for Turkish?
21:28:30 <jlaska> ack
21:28:46 <nb> jlaska, i can look
21:28:47 * jlaska wonders where to even find this information (transifex?)
21:28:51 <jlaska> nb: ty!
21:29:29 <rbergeron> Okay.
21:29:34 <nb> Turkish (tr)
21:29:35 <nb> 55%
21:29:37 <rbergeron> So any other issues? I assume not since we already decided that. :)
21:29:51 <adamw> nope, i think that's everything, QA is a go for release
21:29:55 <rbergeron> Word.
21:29:59 <nb> jlaska, that's for everything tagged into the normal "fedora" colleciton on transifex, not the fedora-upstream-projects or fedora-websites or fedora-docs
21:30:46 <jlaska> nb: okay, thank you
21:30:52 <rbergeron> #agreed No unresolved blocker bugs and all release criteria being met, Fedora 15 Beta is hereby declared GOLD.
21:30:56 * rbergeron claps and moves on
21:31:01 <rbergeron> #topic Open discussion
21:31:37 * rbergeron looks around to see if anyone has comments or questions or anything else of that nature.
21:32:02 <jlaska> nothing here ... just the usual thank you to our maintainers and testers for moving another mountain
21:32:25 <adamw> yup!
21:32:27 * jlaska was including rel-eng in the maintainers group
21:32:28 <rbergeron> Indeed. :)
21:32:32 <rbergeron> #chair jlaska
21:32:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw dgilmore jlaska jsmith nirik rbergeron
21:32:33 <rbergeron> :)
21:33:02 <rbergeron> Alrighty, if there's nothing else, I'm closing out in like 30 seconds or less. :)
21:33:10 <rbergeron> I'll follow up with an official declaration and whatnot.
21:33:11 * jsmith has nothing further to add...
21:33:15 <dgilmore> rbergeron: GOLD and close
21:33:18 <jsmith> Thanks folks!
21:33:30 <rbergeron> Thanks folks :)
21:33:34 <rbergeron> HEY!
21:33:35 <rbergeron> that's my line
21:33:47 <rbergeron> :)
21:33:49 <rbergeron> #endmeeting