16:00:02 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
16:00:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Feb 14 16:00:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:05 <jlaska> #meetingname fedora-qa
16:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
16:00:12 <jlaska> #topic Roll call
16:00:25 <jsmith> Am I fashionably late yet?
16:00:37 <fenrus02> 27 seconds is hardly "fashionable" :)
16:00:43 * jsmith is here (but distracted by a phone meeting)
16:00:55 * tflink is here
16:01:05 <jlaska> jsmith: not at all ... fashionably first :)
16:01:13 <jlaska> fenrus02: tflink: greetings
16:01:24 * jlaska notes ... kparal is out today, he is in training this week
16:01:24 <fenrus02> g'morning!
16:01:41 <vhumpa> Greetings!
16:01:43 <jlaska> I believe vhumpa and jskladan are still recovering from the plague circulating in the Brno office
16:01:54 * jskladan lurks!
16:01:54 <jlaska> waoh, scratch that ... they both live! :D
16:01:59 <vhumpa> jlaska: that is true :)
16:02:14 <jskladan> jlaska: new antibiotics are working like charm :)
16:02:17 <jlaska> vhumpa: jskladan: welcome back you two
16:02:22 <jlaska> hope you are nearing 100% again
16:02:30 <fenrus02> feeling better i hope?
16:02:50 <vhumpa> jlaska: just a flu in my case, i should be in the office from tomorrow
16:02:53 <jskladan> jlaska: it's better, i can even eat now :)
16:03:07 <jlaska> let's hear it for cold/flu season
16:03:09 <jlaska> booooo!
16:03:16 <vhumpa> boooooo!
16:03:17 <jskladan> booooo yeah!
16:03:19 <jskladan> :-D
16:03:28 <jlaska> okay ... who else are we waiting for
16:03:35 <jlaska> rbergeron will likely join a bit later on
16:03:50 <jlaska> adamw, Viking-Ice, robatino, Southern_Gentlem?
16:03:53 <jlaska> anyone else I'm missing?
16:03:56 <adamw> yo
16:04:02 <jlaska> mornin!
16:04:43 <jlaska> let's get started, and hopefully others will join mid-meeting
16:04:58 * jlaska tracking minutes on the wiki at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20110214
16:05:05 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
16:05:19 <jlaska> some of these are kind of really small tasks, I'm just going to breeze through some ...
16:05:25 <jlaska> #info jlaska - ask rel-eng to file tickets for upcoming Alpha milestones
16:05:33 <jlaska> dgilmore created a ton of the Alpha tickets last week, thanks dgilmore!
16:05:38 <jlaska> #link https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=Fedora+15+Alpha
16:05:56 <jlaska> I got some experience with jkeatings python-offtrac module as well, that was a handy way change *many* tickets at once
16:06:02 <jlaska> #info     jlaska - ping clumens about a new anaconda build for the alpha TC
16:06:22 <jlaska> thank you clumens, we have a new anaconda ready and waiting for TC2 (http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=227952)
16:06:29 <jlaska> #info adamw - reach out to dmitri to check-in on FreeIPA test day prep
16:06:49 <jlaska> check this off as well, adamw got in touch w/ dpal and the freeIPA event was postponed and rescheduled for tomorrow
16:06:50 <fenrus02> tomorrow still, right?
16:06:56 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2011-February/000185.html
16:06:58 <adamw> yeah
16:07:03 <jlaska> fenrus02: looks like it ... the wiki is coming together
16:07:05 <fenrus02> awesome.
16:07:10 <jlaska> we can talk more on that in the agenda
16:07:18 <jlaska> #info jlaska - send F15Alpha blocker review announcement
16:07:27 <jlaska> Completed in UTF-7 fashion - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2011-February/000183.html
16:07:43 <jlaska> note ... ensure that you are sending UTF-8 encoded mails with evolution :)
16:07:55 <jlaska> #info Anyone - Propose update to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Test_Day_management recommending creation of a "How to debug ____" guide
16:08:10 <jlaska> looks like adamw grabbed this one, thanks adamw
16:08:15 <jlaska> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-February/096978.html
16:08:22 <jlaska> proposed update out on the list for review
16:08:58 <jlaska> adamw: your proposed edits look good to me ... I'll reply on list after meeting
16:09:00 <adamw> yeah
16:09:11 <jlaska> last one I had was one that Viking-Ice touched on at the end of last week
16:09:12 <adamw> feedback appreciated. there may have been some already, i dunno.
16:09:15 <jlaska> #info Viking-Ice - solicit feedback on test@lists.fedoraproject.org to see whether we need to require only bugzilla.redhat.com use during test days
16:09:19 <adamw> haven' caught up with the list yet
16:09:30 <jlaska> neither have I
16:09:37 <adamw> man, we suck
16:09:42 <jlaska> with a capital S
16:09:46 <jlaska> "we suck less"
16:09:52 <jlaska> "we try harder"
16:09:54 <jlaska> :)
16:10:08 <adamw> the whiskey tries for me
16:10:15 <jlaska> anyway ... not sure what the status is here, but we can catch up with Viking-Ice when he arrives
16:10:16 * Viking-Ice jumps in tata!
16:10:24 <jlaska> tada!
16:10:26 <jlaska> Hey there
16:10:38 <Viking-Ice> I've not yet sent it to the test list
16:10:49 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: okay, want me to keep this on the radar for next week too?
16:11:06 <Viking-Ice> yeah
16:11:14 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: roger, will do
16:11:18 <jlaska> alright, let's dive in ...
16:11:25 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA update - DevConf update
16:11:32 <jlaska> kparal isn't in today, but I have some updates from him via email
16:11:46 <jlaska> Regarding the Developer Conference ...
16:11:54 <jlaska> #info     autoqa attendance was quite scarce, only 4 people. But at least they had their hands on AutoQA and they might help us with something in the future. One of them already proposed SELinux-related test and maybe will start working on it
16:12:06 <jlaska> #info I (kparal) have posted the sample workshop materials here: https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-February/001623.html
16:12:17 <jlaska> #info I also spoke briefly with Lennart and he seemed interested to have automatic checks performed on packages containing systemd units. He mentioned some changes that he could implement to easily allow us to do so. We agreed that I'll contact him after the conference via email and we'll talk more about the details.
16:12:27 <adamw> awesome
16:12:43 <jlaska> tflink: jskladan: vhumpa: feel free to make excessive use of #info #action or #link for any AutoQA updates you want to share
16:13:01 <jlaska> yeah, I'm excited to see if we can come up with anything quick'n'easy wrt systemd unit sanity
16:13:09 <jlaska> glad those two were able to sync up
16:13:59 <Viking-Ice> good to know Lennart and kparal manage to meet each other
16:14:14 <jlaska> tflink: you've been researching unittest integration for autoqa?  Any updates you wanted to highlight here?
16:14:33 <tflink> not a whole lot as of yet
16:15:21 <tflink> we've started a conversation about testing strategy for autoqa on autoqa-devel but it's waiting for a couple of proof of concept implementations before we go much farther
16:15:22 <jlaska> alrighy ... if nothing else on autoqa we'll move on
16:15:44 <jlaska> ah good
16:15:57 <tflink> and by testing strategy, I mean unit and functional/integration testing for the autoqa code iteself
16:16:01 <jlaska> anxious to see what you guys come up with ... I always cringe when building and deploying a new version :)
16:16:39 <jlaska> #info tflink+kparal discussing unit+integration+function test strategy on autoqa-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org
16:16:43 <tflink> as long as you don't feel like yelling 'fire in the hole' when pushing to git
16:16:55 <jlaska> yes, that would be awesome to avoid! :D
16:16:59 <tflink> when we get to that point, we're in trouble
16:17:19 <adamw> that's what all my commit messages say!
16:17:31 <jlaska> "wonder what this will do  -adamw"
16:17:33 <jlaska> :)
16:17:38 <adamw> that or 'danger, will robinson'
16:17:41 <jlaska> heh
16:17:49 <jlaska> okay ... thanks for the update tflink
16:17:55 <tflink> np
16:18:17 <jlaska> alright, let's move on to the upcoming events portion
16:18:24 <jlaska> #topic Tue, Feb 15 - FreeIPA v2 Test Day
16:18:45 <jlaska> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-15_FreeIPAv2
16:18:47 <jlaska> hey robatino  :)
16:19:13 <jlaska> looks like Jcholast is creating tests as we speak
16:19:19 <jlaska> (or type, as the case may be)
16:19:37 <jlaska> yay, they're using https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:QA/Test_Case
16:20:05 <jlaska> I'm not sure what else we need to do for this event, other then get the word out
16:20:18 <jlaska> last I checked, live images are in working order (assuming you don't try to install)
16:20:25 <fenrus02> the cli test page is fun :)
16:20:34 <jlaska> #link http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/163
16:20:49 <jlaska> woah, that's a monster
16:21:18 <adamw> i was working on the basis this is a kinda limited-audience test day
16:21:28 <adamw> i'm not sure it's one you can do much with if you don't know what the hell a freeipa is
16:21:54 <jlaska> are there freeIPA communities that we need to reach out to?
16:21:54 <fenrus02> adamw, you can run the first half with only one machine
16:22:00 <jlaska> besides freeipa-users@redhat.com
16:22:01 <fenrus02> there is #freeipa
16:22:10 <jlaska> fenrus02: are you a frequent user?
16:22:12 <adamw> fenrus02: ah, ok, thanks
16:22:40 <fenrus02> jlaska, not a real user, but i do have it running in test
16:22:57 <jlaska> fenrus02: ah good, I like how they grouped tests requiring 1 system, 2 systems etc...
16:23:31 <fenrus02> kudos to Jcholast ... this test page is shaping up very nicely
16:23:37 <jlaska> +1 agreed
16:23:42 <jlaska> coming together nicely
16:23:53 <jlaska> alright, anything else on the freeIPA test day?
16:24:17 <jlaska> as with any similar event, if you can help get the word out ... please do!
16:24:33 <jlaska> next up ...
16:24:35 <jlaska> #topic Thu, Feb 17 - XFCE4.8 Test Day
16:24:44 <jlaska> lemme see if maxa is around
16:24:51 * nirik is lurking around too.
16:25:10 <jlaska> oh perfect, hey ninjazjb
16:25:15 <jlaska> and nirik  :)
16:25:27 <jlaska> fooled by tab-complete again!
16:25:35 <nirik> I dropped an inital wiki page in, and cwickert spruced it up some...
16:25:43 <nirik> but it could use more love I'm sure.
16:25:52 <jlaska> #link http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/157
16:25:56 <adamw> i had a note on my personal todo list to check in with you guys on this one
16:25:57 <jlaska> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-17_Xfce
16:26:00 <vhumpa> Good day - Let me know if I can help - will definitely participate on this one
16:26:07 <adamw> we have all the test cases from last time we can re-use, they may need updating i guess
16:26:16 <adamw> hi vhumpa, get back to bed =)
16:26:18 <nirik> yeah .
16:26:31 <nirik> and possibly any general desktopy ones might apply if generic enough.
16:27:19 * dgilmore just made some tc2 xfce live cds
16:27:23 <adamw> right
16:27:25 <adamw> dgilmore: yaay
16:27:31 <nirik> cool.
16:27:36 <cwickert> dgilmore: where can I grab them?
16:27:41 <dgilmore> cwickert: koji
16:27:45 * cwickert looks
16:27:54 <maxamillion> here-ish
16:27:59 <dgilmore> cwickert: i need to pull them into place  yet
16:28:01 <adamw> when does tc2 land again?
16:28:02 <maxamillion> apologies for my tardiness(sp?)
16:28:07 <dgilmore> adamw: today
16:28:22 <dgilmore> adamw: was supposed to be friday but we had no repos to build from
16:28:41 <jlaska> TC2 ticket - https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4425
16:28:42 <dgilmore> adamw: and rc1 is thursday
16:29:04 <jlaska> hey maxamillion, thanks for joining
16:29:23 <maxamillion> jlaska: happy to be here :)
16:29:24 <jlaska> maxamillion: cwickert and nirik were just discussing updates to the XFCE4.8 test day wiki
16:29:41 <adamw> dgilmore: thanks
16:29:46 <jlaska> I was going to ask if there were any issues that might prevent test contributions for the XFCE test day
16:30:15 <jlaska> I gather we'll find out shortly with TC2
16:30:18 <cwickert> I might be busy, But I'll try t obe around
16:30:31 <jlaska> anything else we need to discuss for our first double header test day week?
16:30:34 <maxamillion> jlaska: ah, ok ... thanks for the ping :)
16:30:36 * nirik will also try and be around... more tests/fixes on the wiki welcome.
16:30:49 <adamw> does xfce use gdm as login manager?
16:30:53 <nirik> we should probibly advertise to upstream lists as well as the fedora xfce list.
16:30:56 <nirik> adamw: yes.
16:30:57 <maxamillion> I will be around but there will certainly be times I'm away
16:30:59 <maxamillion> adamw: yes
16:31:01 <jlaska> adamw: oh right, flashing gdm bug?
16:31:02 <maxamillion> bah! too slwo
16:31:06 <maxamillion> slow*
16:31:11 <adamw> jlaska: right, that's what i was thinking about
16:31:14 <nirik> adamw: is the 'can't login to anything but gnome' going to be fixed before then? I hope so. ;(
16:31:31 <adamw> last report in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=674978 is that that bug isn't fixed yet
16:31:34 <adamw> nirik: is there a bug for that?
16:31:44 <adamw> ping halfline
16:31:45 <nirik> I think so, but don't have it off hand.
16:32:10 <jlaska> I just pinged halfline earlier today, he's back in action after being under the weather
16:32:36 <jlaska> so hopefully we can get some help wijth that flashy gdm issue
16:32:51 * dgilmore notes that we freeze for alpha tomorrow
16:32:59 * nirik wishes we could switch to lxdm or something so we would not need to bother gdm folks, but that never seems to be possible. ;(
16:33:04 <adamw> jlaska: ah thanks
16:33:25 <jlaska> alright ... anything else we want to note?
16:33:26 <adamw> dgilmore: the gdm crash is marked as a blocker so it goes through the freeze
16:33:36 <dgilmore> adamw: right
16:33:45 <adamw> nirik: if you find the 'can't launch anything but gnome' bug mark it as f15alpha-accepted so we can get it through the freeze also
16:33:47 <jlaska> #info XFCE test day may be impacted by gdm bug -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=674978 (halftline investigating)
16:33:47 <dgilmore> adamw: its going to need special handling
16:33:50 <jlaska> #undo
16:33:50 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2b02601ca490>
16:33:53 <jlaska> #info XFCE test day may be impacted by gdm bug -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=674978 (halfline investigating)
16:34:14 <cwickert> is halfline actually working on this?
16:34:39 <jlaska> still waiting for confirmation ... we may want ot reach out on #fedora-devel so we don't all bombard him
16:34:43 * cwickert sees no comment from him in the bug report and it is still new
16:34:59 <jlaska> cwickert: he was ill last week, but should be back now
16:35:19 <cwickert> I see
16:35:32 <cwickert> nirik: btw: I cannot boot the latest xfce nightly
16:35:46 <nirik> cwickert: doesn't even boot? or you get the gdm flashing issue?
16:36:27 <cwickert> nirik: it doesn't boot completely: "plymouthd: could not log bootup: address already in use"
16:36:43 <jlaska> cwickert: that should be noice
16:36:44 <jlaska> noise
16:36:49 <adamw> yeah that's not the error
16:36:56 <adamw> it always says that
16:37:07 <adamw> anyway, shall we follow it up out of meeting?
16:37:16 <nirik> yeah, thats "normal"
16:37:20 <cwickert> ok
16:37:28 <jlaska> alright, moving on ...
16:37:49 <jlaska> #topic Thu, Feb 17 - Alpha RC testing starts
16:38:09 <jlaska> As dgilmore noted earlier, we're expecting a TC2 compose sometime today that will have post-branch, post-mass-rebuild content
16:38:32 <dgilmore> jlaska: we wont have KDE livecds
16:38:39 <dgilmore> but we will have everything else
16:38:46 <jlaska> Given the enormous amount of change, I suspect we'll need to run through the release validation matrix again
16:38:56 <adamw> dgilmore: what's up with kde?
16:39:02 <dgilmore> adamw: broken deps
16:39:03 <adamw> jlaska: definitely +1 to that
16:39:05 <jlaska> stay tuned to test-announce@ for updates and new images
16:39:11 <adamw> dgilmore: ah, did you talk to kde team?
16:39:22 <dgilmore> adamw: yep rdieter is working on getting it fixed
16:39:26 <jlaska> #info F-15-Alpha-TC2 expected today - includes mass rebuild and branched release changes
16:39:39 <jlaska> we can land live images whenever they are available, right?
16:39:46 <jlaska> updated live images, I mean
16:40:12 <adamw> dgilmore: cool. i guess we can add a note for desktop validation saying 'test a nightly'.
16:40:16 <dgilmore> jlaska: yeah
16:40:27 <dgilmore> adamw: nightly should fail the same
16:40:28 <adamw> or do that!
16:40:36 <adamw> dgilmore: right, but when the deps are fixed, the next one won't.
16:40:42 <dgilmore> adamw: sure
16:41:37 <jlaska> anything else we want to review on this topic?
16:41:45 <jlaska> new TC2 images, then RC1 images
16:41:51 <dgilmore> busy week
16:41:59 <jlaska> that's how we like it, right? :D
16:42:15 <jlaska> dgilmore: btw ... kudos for your work with the branching+rebuild
16:42:23 <adamw> yup thanks a ton
16:42:39 <dgilmore> jlaska: just doing my job :)
16:43:11 <jlaska> dgilmore: even with the RC1 on the schedule for Friday, we can't build ISO images until we have no unresolved blocker bugs, right?
16:43:24 <jlaska> at least, that's what we've followed for previous releases
16:43:35 * jlaska suspects no reason we need to adjust that this time
16:44:11 <dgilmore> jlaska: well there is no point in making isos if the blockers are not fixed
16:44:18 <dgilmore> or we at least think there fixed
16:44:21 <jlaska> dgilmore: right on
16:44:40 <jlaska> dgilmore: I put some queries for the bugs we are tracking in https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4425
16:44:47 <dgilmore> jlaska: awesome thanks
16:44:51 <jlaska> lemme know if those are helpful, or if you want other views
16:45:00 <dgilmore> i will do
16:45:02 <jlaska> alright, happy testing all!
16:45:11 <jlaska> next topic ...
16:45:13 <jlaska> #topic Fri, Feb 18 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f15alpha) #4
16:45:46 <rbergeron> woot
16:46:03 <jlaska> #info We held our first blocker IRC meeting last Friday -- http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-bugzappers/2011-02-11/f15alpha-bug-review.2011-02-11-17.00.html
16:46:19 <jlaska> we had good participation in the meeting, thank you all
16:46:26 <adamw> dgilmore: jlaska: i believe our process is not to spin RCs till all existing blockers are addressed, right?
16:46:32 <jlaska> really helps having active meeting participation, or updated bugs
16:46:37 <jlaska> adamw: yup, that's my understanding too
16:46:42 <jlaska> adamw: just wanted to confirm
16:47:44 <jlaska> so the first blocker meetings in a release are always painful
16:47:45 <jlaska> 2 hours
16:48:05 <dgilmore> it was productive though
16:48:10 <jlaska> plus, my fingers aren't the fastest ... so that's a limiting factor :)
16:48:16 <jlaska> dgilmore: +1 definitely
16:48:18 <adamw> much less painful if you don't show up!
16:48:25 <jsmith> adamw: Zinger!
16:48:34 <jlaska> adamw: a well deserved absence!
16:48:46 <jlaska> so ... rinse and repeat this friday
16:49:01 <jlaska> Try to be proactive and responsive to any bugs you have on the blocker list
16:49:15 <jlaska> be on the lookout for requests for debug information, or test feedback from maintainers
16:49:24 <jlaska> and don't be afraid to hug a maintainer
16:49:29 <jlaska> they are people too!
16:49:56 <jlaska> just some reminder links for the casual reader ...
16:49:58 <jlaska> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting
16:50:05 <jlaska> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_blocker_bug_process
16:50:08 <jlaska> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_nth_bug_process
16:50:25 <jlaska> alright ... anything else folks wanted to higlight on the blocker meetings?
16:51:03 <jlaska> we had a few folks doing their first fedora blocker meetings this time, hopefully I didn't scare them  (rbergeron, tflink, dgilmore)
16:51:18 <jlaska> okay ... time for open discussion (with 9 minutes to spare)
16:51:20 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - <Your topic here>
16:51:30 <dgilmore> jlaska: im not easily scared
16:51:36 <jlaska> Are there any topics folks would like to discuss that haven't already been touched on?
16:51:38 <tflink> jlaska: I've seen far worse :)
16:51:48 <rbergeron> ;)
16:51:54 <jlaska> tflink: dgilmore: careful, we haven't hit the mother of all blocker meetings yet!
16:52:16 <rbergeron> lol
16:52:34 <jlaska> any meeting with popcorn and intermission == pain
16:52:51 <adamw> what's our record? eight hours or so?
16:53:15 <jlaska> I don't remember, part of me died that day
16:53:21 <adamw> haha
16:53:27 <tflink> 8 hours? Oh my ...
16:53:36 <jlaska> I like to say it was the part that could spell properly
16:53:40 <jlaska> adamw:  ^^ :)
16:53:43 <jsmith> :-p
16:54:00 <jlaska> okay ... I'm going to set the fuse for 3 minutes ...
16:54:21 <jlaska> let's close out the meeting in 3 minutes unless there are any new topics raised
16:55:00 <jlaska> T - 2 minutes ...
16:55:05 * jlaska queues the musak
16:56:00 <jlaska> T - 1 minute ...
16:56:27 <jlaska> jskladan: vhumpa: glad you both are feeling better
16:56:32 <jlaska> thanks everyone for your time ...
16:56:44 <jlaska> and good luck testing and rigorously applying the Alpha release criteria this week :D
16:57:02 <jlaska> #endmeeting