13:12:50 <liknus> #startmeeting FAmSCo meeting 2010-12-18
13:12:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Dec 18 13:12:50 2010 UTC.  The chair is liknus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:12:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:15:29 <gbraad-china> liknus, all oK? I do not think it is just you who has this lag.
13:15:52 <liknus> back
13:15:55 <liknus> #chair liknus
13:15:55 <zodbot> Current chairs: liknus
13:15:56 <liknus> it is not ok...
13:15:59 <liknus> I am having lag of 30 sec aprox now
13:16:11 <liknus> lcafiero, kaio gbraad-china you?
13:16:39 <igorps> it seems ok here now
13:16:39 <lcafiero> A little lag, but not much.
13:16:42 <liknus> #meetingname famsco-2010-12-18
13:16:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco-2010-12-18'
13:16:52 <liknus> ok lets proceed as planed :)
13:16:55 <kaio> liknus☺ I think is okay.
13:16:57 <liknus> #topic RollCall
13:17:04 <liknus> .fas ppapadeas
13:17:04 <zodbot> liknus: ppapadeas 'Papadeas Pierros' <ppapadeas@gmail.com>
13:17:11 <igorps> .fas igorps
13:17:11 <zodbot> igorps: igor 'Igor Pires Soares' <igor@projetofedora.org>
13:17:14 <kaio> .fas kaio
13:17:14 <zodbot> kaio: kaio 'Caius Chance' <me@kaio.net>
13:17:24 <gbraad-china> .fas gbraad
13:17:24 <zodbot> gbraad-china: gbraad 'Gerard Braad (吉拉德)' <fedora@gbraad.nl>
13:17:45 <kaio> gbraad☺ where did you put chinese name in fas?
13:18:03 <liknus> .fas lcafiero
13:18:04 <zodbot> liknus: lcafiero 'Larry Cafiero' <larrycafiero@cruzio.com>
13:18:10 <liknus> ok so moving on:
13:18:25 <lcafiero> sorry. just getting coffee
13:18:26 <liknus> our today's agenda can be found here:
13:18:33 <liknus> lcafiero, no worries
13:18:35 <liknus> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda
13:18:54 <liknus> before that we must do something else:
13:19:05 <liknus> #topic Appointment of FAmSCo Vice-Chair
13:19:23 <liknus> as statedI should appoint thee Vice-Chair for this term of FAmSCo
13:20:04 <liknus> my decision is based on the simple fact that we should have the same experiences within Ambassadors
13:20:26 <liknus> so I can see that everyone in here has experience on meetings (one way or another)
13:20:29 <liknus> except kaio
13:20:53 <gbraad-china> !
13:20:59 <liknus> So I appoint kaio as our Vice-Chair with the hope to get to know the processes of meetings and chairing bette
13:21:12 <gbraad-china> kaio hosted almost all #fedora-zh meetings :-)
13:21:21 <liknus> please understand that this is just typical
13:21:41 <liknus> gbraad, indeed but he has been ambassador not for long
13:22:19 <liknus> I hope that everyone is ok with that decision
13:22:47 <igorps> I think that it is great to give some more experience to him
13:22:49 <lcafiero> +1
13:22:56 <igorps> +1
13:22:58 <kaio> I want to know more for reports and emails among large team. :)
13:23:05 * gbraad-china knows for sure you made the right choice
13:23:06 <gbraad-china> +1
13:24:32 <kaio> thx I will do my best!
13:28:02 <igorps> Got a timeout from liknus here
13:28:40 * gbraad-china suggested to liknus to collect alternative contact methods in case such a thing happens again (before or after the meeting)
13:29:45 <kaio> gbraad-china☺ liknus may be purposely letting me to start my learning right now by doing that. :P
13:30:17 <lcafiero> he's back
13:30:25 <igorps> kaio: that was just to scare you :P
13:30:34 <liknus> anyone here?
13:30:36 <gbraad-china> liknus add chair to this meeting. let him start immediately
13:30:36 <liknus> sorry guys my net connection isgoing crazy
13:30:46 <liknus> #chair kaio lcafiero
13:30:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: kaio lcafiero liknus
13:31:02 <liknus> please guys if I go offline continue without me
13:31:08 * gbraad-china suggests to collect alternative contact methods for similar situations in the future
13:31:08 <liknus> so moving on:
13:31:20 <liknus> gbraad, well thought
13:31:35 <gbraad-china> ok. former topic agreed
13:31:46 <liknus> #topic quarterly FAmSCo IRC town hall meetings
13:31:47 <liknus> lcafiero,
13:32:06 <lcafiero> yes.
13:32:45 <lcafiero> Am I to talk about this topic?
13:33:04 <gbraad-china> yes
13:34:11 <liknus> lcafiero, I am sorry :) it was you that added the topic
13:34:20 <liknus> I tought you wanted an intriduction
13:34:43 <lcafiero> Yes, it was me
13:34:49 <liknus> anyway the thing is that we can have FAmSCo town halls every 3 months
13:35:07 <liknus> to get in closer touch with Ambassadors needs and suggestions
13:35:24 <liknus> lcafiero, prosposed it and I think it is an excellent idea :)
13:35:28 <lcafiero> In the past there had been IRC town hall meetings and it came up in discussion in the #fedora-ambassadors channel that they should start up again
13:35:40 <lcafiero> Right. I think quarterly would be OK
13:35:58 <igorps> I also think it is a good idea
13:36:09 <gbraad-china> lcafiero you mean in which they can ask questions towards famsco?
13:36:11 <lcafiero> It gives people a chance to talk to us as a group.
13:36:16 <lcafiero> Right, gbraad-china
13:36:24 <igorps> but it will hard to find an appropriate time for everyone
13:36:33 <liknus> who shall head the preparations? (reminders, charing etc)
13:36:55 <liknus> igorps, thats why we might need to so that again and again
13:37:00 <liknus> like regional ones
13:37:02 <lcafiero> It has been done in the past and we can check what schedule they had
13:37:06 <igorps> liknus: +1
13:37:44 <gbraad-china> igorps this should not be a big issues. not all of us have to be present.
13:37:53 <kaio> we may have townhalls for 3 regions by timezone
13:38:04 <gbraad-china> i thought of it... but rather not.
13:38:25 <gbraad-china> it should be more general. else you get a serious management/communication overhead
13:38:26 <igorps> it is a good idea to variate the town hall time during the year
13:38:35 <gbraad-china> igorps +1
13:38:44 <lcafiero> +1
13:38:49 <kaio> ++
13:38:55 <gbraad-china> also to satsify the need of the various ambassadors of different regions
13:39:26 <gbraad-china> good idea, and something to announce early on
13:39:49 <igorps> gbraad-china: exactly
13:41:31 <gbraad-china> it would not be bad to have enough chance for this; would not mind bi-monthly option
13:42:02 <igorps> we can map the timezones and figure out which time is best for each region
13:42:13 <lcafiero> that would be OK too
13:43:30 <gbraad-china> action point? how to move further
13:43:55 <igorps> I will make a list of possible times
13:43:57 <lcafiero> #action establish schedule for irc town hall meeting
13:44:07 <lcafiero> Oh, I don't have chair status.
13:44:24 <lcafiero> Anyway, we should determine on list what would be the best times.
13:44:28 <kaio> #action establish schedule for irc town hall meeting
13:44:56 <igorps> lcafiero: yes we can arrange that via mailing list
13:45:13 <bochecha> lcafiero, you do, there's just no feedback from meetbot on #action
13:45:19 <lcafiero> yes
13:45:28 <lcafiero> OK, thanks bochecha
13:46:23 * gbraad-china suggest to have the first one of short notice. although not sure if january would be a good idea
13:46:31 <gbraad-china> s/of/on
13:46:42 <lcafiero> Right. There's no urgency to this.
13:46:55 <lcafiero> January might not be good for NA -- FUDCon is at the end of that month.
13:46:59 <lcafiero> Maybe early Feb.
13:47:15 <gbraad-china> early February is FOSDEM
13:47:24 <gbraad-china> I would suggest near the end if we would.
13:48:40 * gbraad-china suggest to move to next topic and discuss this further on the mailinglist.
13:48:50 <lcafiero> Right. OK. Let me put it on the list to see what works for everyone and let's move on
13:49:00 <igorps> +1
13:49:44 * gbraad also has a lag of about one minute from China
13:52:33 <kaio> ++
13:52:36 <gbraad> lcafiero igorps liknus kaio still here?
13:52:46 <lcafiero> Yes
13:52:58 <igorps> yes
13:53:28 <lcafiero> #topic reactivate #fedora-famsco irc channel
13:53:49 <lcafiero> That's me: There is discussion about reactivating this channel, which is not used.
13:54:22 <lcafiero> It would be a channel where we could discuss famsco business without having to deal with the traffic in #fedora-ambassadors
13:54:35 <kaio> gbraad☺ or course :)
13:54:39 <lcafiero> It would be open to the public, obviously, but removed from ambassadors
13:56:03 <gbraad> agrees as a lowered entry for people to discuss stuff with #famsco
13:56:52 <lcafiero> I made an inquiry, as did nick bebout (nb on the ambassadors channel), so I am working on it.
13:57:04 <lcafiero> If you'll allow me, I'll continue to pursue this.
13:57:12 <gbraad> +1
13:57:14 <igorps> no objections as well
13:57:41 <kaio> don't mind
13:59:07 <igorps> also it seems a good place for us to meet beyond our regular meetings
13:59:34 <lcafiero> right.
14:00:09 <lcafiero> #action lcafiero to pursue establishing #fedora-famsco
14:04:04 <lcafiero> So what's next?
14:04:22 <gbraad-china> not sure if liknus is still here.
14:04:36 <gbraad-china> I suggest next topic, which is also a larry subject
14:04:59 <igorps> lcafiero: next topic would be Ambassadors F15 Schedule
14:05:06 <kaio> #topic # Propose to postpone meetings on 25 Dec. 2010 and 1 Jan. 2011, resuming meetings on 8 Jan. 2011 (Larry)
14:06:04 <igorps> better to discuss this one since liknus is having problems
14:06:23 <kaio> The two meeting days aforementioned are just the big western days in a year.
14:06:48 <gbraad-china> APAC would not have a lot of issues with having a meeting on those days, but I can expect from a western perspective it would ;-)
14:07:03 <lcafiero> Right, they're actually big holidays here.
14:07:10 <lcafiero> And europe
14:07:17 <igorps> for sure, a lot of people use to travel
14:07:30 <lcafiero> and south america
14:07:33 <lcafiero> :-)
14:07:54 <gbraad-china> I agree to postpone it. we would also need to see if Chinese New Year would be an issue later.
14:07:55 <lcafiero> And it's rare that it would turn out that these two holidays would fall on meeting days, but this year, they do.
14:08:05 <lcafiero> Right.
14:08:16 <igorps> I'll be around but I think we should postpone it
14:08:22 <gbraad-china> just hope we can keep postponing after this to a minimum ;-)
14:08:31 <kaio> Though we may still carry on discussions via mailing list.
14:08:33 <lcafiero> And as I've mentioned before, we communicate well on other venues like the list and on channels so I don't think there will be a problem
14:08:57 <lcafiero> gbraad-china: I don't foresee this being a regular issue.
14:09:20 <igorps> As liknus mentioned we just have to keep ourselves active
14:09:43 <gbraad-china> kaio, will you or liknus issue a statement about these cancelled meeting dates?
14:10:07 <kaio> gbraad-china☺ we will announce on list about this
14:10:56 <gbraad-china> also suggest to mention it on the wiki for ambassadors who read our minutes
14:11:04 <gbraad-china> keep them informed
14:11:39 <kaio> gbraad-china☺ we may also need a summary for FAms to read IMHO, about discussions during that period.
14:12:47 <liknus> I can handle the summary
14:12:54 <gbraad-china> agreed ?
14:12:56 <kaio> liknus☺ ++
14:12:59 <igorps> +1
14:13:11 <liknus> I dont know how many things are written from what  I write
14:13:51 <lcafiero> heh.
14:14:01 <lcafiero> Shall we revisit the f15 schedule?
14:14:11 <gbraad-china> yes
14:14:31 <kaio> so we need 2 summaries and 2 announcements (send around time of each canceled meeting)
14:15:11 <kaio> #topic Fedora Ambassadors F15 Schedule finalizing (Pierros)
14:15:17 * gbraad-china suggests a single announcement
14:15:51 <kaio> gbraad-china☺
14:16:25 <igorps> As discussed earlier I think that the "Regional IRC sessions" in the schedule need to be more clear
14:16:52 <igorps> or at least rephrased
14:17:29 <igorps> it is not clear that it has to do with Talking Points
14:17:43 * gbraad-china would not have guessed
14:18:23 <kaio> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-ambassadors-tasks.html
14:18:34 <igorps> I still think it is a good idea to have these sessions
14:19:04 <gbraad-china> i agree, point 14 needs to b rephrased.
14:19:42 <igorps> +1
14:19:55 <igorps> we just have to make their object more clear to all
14:20:31 <gbraad-china> do we also need to pre-announce this to the ambassadors?
14:21:14 <igorps> gbraad-china: yes
14:21:36 <igorps> we should announce this in the Ambassador mailing list
14:21:49 <igorps> and also in the regional mailing lists
14:21:57 <igorps> if any, depending of the region
14:22:14 <gbraad-china> we need to identify these target groups already
14:23:03 <igorps> The objective is to make local Ambassadors aware of F15 Talking Points
14:23:40 <lcafiero> +1, though that doesn't come until much later.
14:23:46 <lcafiero> talking points, that is.
14:24:03 <igorps> I intent to host it during our regular meetings in LATAM
14:24:32 <gbraad-china> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/15/FeatureList
14:25:00 <gbraad-china> we could identify some of the talking points, but for this I suggest to get in touch with Marketing
14:25:09 <lcafiero> +1
14:25:12 <gbraad-china> kaio and I could prepare for APAC
14:25:28 <igorps> +1
14:25:38 <igorps> We might have a specific talking points page by the end of the release cycle
14:26:05 <igorps> but we really need to set up the meetings earlier
14:26:44 * gbraad-china knows, but identifying some of it, what interests our ambassadors/users, could also help marketing with targeting
14:27:55 * gbraad-china suggests to propose some meeting moments on the mailinglist for each region. in this case APAC, EMEA and LATAM + NA would be a good solution
14:28:26 <lcafiero> +1
14:28:36 <igorps> +1
14:29:11 <gbraad-china> kaio ?
14:29:56 <igorps> GNOME 3 and systemd will be good talking points, for sure
14:30:02 <igorps> but we can decide that via mailing list
14:30:14 <igorps> along with other ambassadors and the marketing
14:30:24 <lcafiero> right
14:30:27 <kaio> ++
14:30:53 <lcafiero> ok, do we need to make that an action item?
14:30:56 <gbraad-china> I agree. As seen on the mailinglist, Y1nv would be assisting with the Marketing contacts.
14:31:25 <gbraad-china> If needed, I can also get in touch them and see if we can plan ahead of time
14:31:46 <igorps> so do I
14:32:01 <igorps> we can work together on that
14:32:13 <gbraad-china> create an action point to synchronize with marketing
14:32:34 <gbraad-china> and to plan for the meeting time in the specified regions
14:32:50 <igorps> and start a thread in the mailing list regarding the regional meetings schedule
14:33:56 <lcafiero> OK, we need a (hash)action $ACTION so meetbot picks it up for the minutes.
14:34:18 <lcafiero> I would do it, but I'm unclear what that action is.
14:34:44 <igorps> I am not able to do it since I don't have chair status
14:35:57 <gbraad-china> Get in touch with Marketing to identify potential talking points for the regional IRC sessions
14:36:25 <lcafiero> so is the action to synchronize F15 ambassador schedule with marketing?
14:37:00 <gbraad-china> yes
14:37:21 <igorps> lcafiero: yes, taking into consideration the regional talking points meetings
14:37:29 <gbraad-china> igorps, will you take care of this? it would be eaiser for you as you are in the timezone ;-)
14:37:47 <igorps> No problem gbraad-china
14:38:01 <lcafiero> #action synchronize F15 ambassador schedule with marketing, taking into consideration regional talking point meetings.
14:38:13 <igorps> +1
14:39:36 <igorps> shall we move on to the next topic?
14:39:56 <gbraad-china> if liknus has more to add, we will discuss this again on the next meeting
14:40:08 <gbraad-china> or on the mailinglist
14:40:39 <gbraad-china> next topic.
14:40:44 <lcafiero> +1
14:40:48 <igorps> gbraad-china: lets articulate that with him, since he was dealing with this issue first
14:40:51 <lcafiero> for next topic
14:41:31 <igorps> that would be: FAmSCo meeting reminders or not?
14:41:43 <igorps> added by liknus
14:42:13 <kaio> #topic FAmSCo meeting reminders or not? (Pierros)
14:42:18 <gbraad-china> thanks
14:42:37 <gbraad-china> I would say that we need to emphasize communication. So yes!
14:42:45 <igorps> I'll give a +1 to this
14:43:00 <kaio> definitely yes
14:43:00 <igorps> Since it will take a while for some of us get used to the meeting time
14:43:20 <gbraad-china> the meeting time is not the issue for me, but I want people the be aware that we have this meeting
14:43:36 <gbraad-china> with people I mean the Ambassadors and more
14:43:48 <igorps> gbraad-china: good point
14:43:59 <igorps> since the meeting is open to everyone
14:44:18 <gbraad-china> the reason for the reminders is to share the agenda points in advance and ask for input
14:44:58 <gbraad-china> this means that Ambassadors can ask for a point to be discussed if they have a question about resource handling, etc.
14:45:04 <gbraad-china> so the reminder is not just for us.
14:45:31 <igorps> Also people in general should be aware that the meeting time has change with the new FAmSCo
14:45:38 * gbraad-china suggests to issue a reminder two days before the meeting
14:45:43 <igorps> gbraad-china: totally agreed
14:45:45 <kaio> +
14:45:47 <kaio> ++
14:46:03 <lcafiero> +1
14:47:41 <lcafiero> we're at 1:45 or so on this meeting -- a long one
14:47:58 <kaio> all agreed?
14:48:09 <gbraad-china> I think we have to cut it short today. it already lasts long
14:48:11 <lcafiero> I think so, kaio
14:48:16 * gbraad-china all agreed
14:48:22 <igorps> +1
14:48:27 <lcafiero> I think we should operate under the assumption that if there is no objection, then we are all agreed.
14:48:43 <lcafiero> and everyone should +1 or -1 where appropriate.
14:48:51 <gbraad-china> lcafiero agree +1
14:48:58 <kaio> lcafiero☺ the waiting is too long
14:49:06 <lcafiero> Heh. I know.
14:49:14 <igorps> Yes, it is
14:49:25 <lcafiero> Does anyone have any regional reports?
14:49:27 * lcafiero doesn't
14:49:42 <kaio> okay how about "short regional reports and feedback", do we want to move to this now?
14:50:08 <kaio> #topic short regional reports and feedback
14:50:10 <gbraad-china> APAC, attended the Beijing MeeGo Network to represent Fedora and the Open Source way.
14:50:28 <gbraad-china> will make this a recurring event.
14:50:42 <kaio> I have nothing specific to report here. Preparation of LCA and FAD @ Brisbane is in progress.
14:50:56 <gbraad-china> everything is needed to promote Open Source in China
14:50:59 * gbraad-china done
14:51:15 <kaio> gbraad-china☺ I will encourage members of FZUG who are in Beijing to have more meet ups also.
14:51:33 <igorps> in LATAM we started a discussion about the LATAM ticketing system with local ambassadors
14:51:44 <igorps> They have been using a Redmine instance for organizing regional tasks
14:52:03 <igorps> Since it is already established and there are a lot of Spanish and Portuguese content in there yet, I proposed that we can still use Redmine for organizing our regional tasks and use the FAmSCo Track for budget requirements.
14:52:18 <igorps> I also stated that if local ambassadors don't feel able to write in English in the FAmSCo Track then me or y1nv can translate and help them with receipts
14:52:21 <kaio> And getting to know everyone on Fedora Chinese which cities they are located.
14:52:38 <kaio> igorps☺ great
14:52:45 <gbraad-china> igorps, thanks. sounds good.
14:53:02 <gbraad-china> if things already work, rather not change.
14:53:20 <kaio> anyone want to report/feedback?
14:53:25 <igorps> It sounds like a good arrangement for me either :)
14:53:26 <gbraad-china> alternative by translating sounds good
14:53:30 * igorps is done
14:53:48 <kaio> move on?
14:53:53 <gbraad-china> +1
14:53:56 <igorps> +1
14:54:35 <kaio> I think when we get three +1 we can move on
14:54:42 <lcafiero> +1
14:54:51 <kaio> #topic Max -- Lead review of open tickets
14:55:18 <kaio> as he is away (on irc), we may skip this and ping him via email/list
14:55:38 <lcafiero> +1 -- I'll take care of that.
14:55:41 <kaio> pls put your "+1" if agree
14:55:49 <igorps> +1
14:55:53 <gbraad-china> lcafiero please do
14:55:55 <gbraad-china> +1
14:56:01 <gbraad-china> this has prio IMO
14:56:11 <gbraad-china> already been some time
14:56:18 * kaio feel familiar to push meeting progress like in #fedora-zh... :P
14:56:32 <lcafiero> Heh. Yes, please
14:56:41 <kaio> okay we are ending the meeting here
14:56:53 <gbraad-china> ?
14:57:28 <kaio> gbraad-china☺ sometimes people in #fedora-zh meetings off-topic too much. :)
14:57:45 <lcafiero> is liknus still here?
14:57:50 <gbraad-china> Please discuss alternative contact methods by email. off list as it might involve xmpp accounts which should not be public.
14:58:15 <gbraad-china> if nobody has issue with it, they may of course post them ;-)
14:58:58 <gbraad-china> kaio, please move forward to end.
14:59:20 <kaio> gbraad☺ lets exchange our xmpp acc off-list then. :D
14:59:32 <kaio> if no extra topic I am ending this meeting now
14:59:37 <lcafiero> +1
14:59:38 <kaio> pls +1
14:59:40 <igorps> +1
14:59:43 <gbraad-china> +1
15:00:18 <gbraad-china> suggestion for next time. keep pace.
15:00:21 <kaio> Thank you everyone for attending. It is too long and I will help making it shorter probably at most 1 hour.
15:00:31 <kaio> #endmeeting