18:00:57 <stickster> #startmeeting Fedora Insight (agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Meeting_agenda)
18:00:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 14 18:00:57 2010 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:03 <stickster> #meetingname Fedora Insight
18:01:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_insight'
18:01:08 <stickster> #topic Roll call
18:01:44 * rbergeron 
18:01:52 * rbergeron got here just in time ;D
18:01:54 <stickster> Hi rbergeron, nice to see you as always :-)
18:01:56 <stickster> #chair rbergeron
18:01:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: rbergeron stickster
18:02:08 * stickster holds further #chair-ing for the end
18:02:17 * rbergeron just hasn't seen stickster in soooooo long
18:02:26 * stickster not sure if smooge Sparks Sparks_too hiemanshu are around
18:02:43 <smooge> I am sort of here
18:03:05 <smooge> I have not had time to deal with drupal6 modules
18:03:25 <stickster> smooge: OK, we'll carry that forward
18:03:33 <stickster> #chair smooge
18:03:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: rbergeron smooge stickster
18:03:39 <stickster> #topic Last week's action items
18:03:52 <stickster> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-10-07/fedora_insight.2010-10-07-18.00.html
18:03:52 * Sparks_too is here
18:03:59 <stickster> #chair Sparks_too
18:03:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks_too rbergeron smooge stickster
18:04:25 <stickster> I got my action items done but one, FWIW
18:04:42 <stickster> #info stickster emailed hiemanshu but didn't get an answer -- this presumably means his intarwebz are still down.
18:04:53 <stickster> #info stickster got some Drupal books and has started studying
18:05:11 <stickster> #info stickster got smooge and the new guy Sven Lankes connected with a list of modules, Sven has even packaged some!
18:05:21 <smooge> is reading those emails
18:05:50 * rbergeron gives a high five to sven for packaging :)
18:06:18 * stickster resets action items for next week check-in
18:06:18 <Sparks_too> Awesome
18:06:30 <stickster> #pcalarco Figure out solution to putting all beats for a FWN issue together on a page
18:06:33 <stickster> argh
18:06:35 <stickster> #action pcalarco Figure out solution to putting all beats for a FWN issue together on a page
18:06:47 <stickster> #action pcalarco to reuse blog post text from Sparks_too to recruit on Ambassadors list
18:07:09 <stickster> #action stickster Complete the function to autofill titles in fwnbeat content type
18:07:17 <stickster> #topic Drupal status
18:07:23 <stickster> OK, here's where the goin' gets tough
18:08:16 <stickster> #info Once again we're not likely to be in time for final change deadline but our main holdups seem to be the theme and these two pieces of technical work (pcalarco - Views change, stickster - FWN beat type completion)
18:09:08 <stickster> But a few things are picking up nicely
18:09:39 <stickster> #info Packaging modules just got a shot in the arm thanks to Sven, hopefully smooge has a little time to steal his spec files and put up a couple remaining modules for review
18:10:01 <stickster> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/logistics/2010-October/000788.html <-- check out the awesomeness
18:10:04 <smooge> I will be able to do some of this tomorrow and the rest next week
18:10:15 <stickster> Sven will need one or more reviewers for these
18:10:20 <stickster> Sparks_too: Are you game?
18:10:42 * stickster notes there should be *no* wrinkles of licensing or library bundling with Drupal modules
18:11:58 <Sparks_too> stickster: I've never reviewed a package and I've never been real good at packaging...
18:12:11 * Sparks_too thinks that if I reviewed some I'd get better at packaging.
18:12:21 <stickster> Sparks_too: I found that when I did, I got better.
18:12:34 <Sparks_too> I'll help where I can!
18:12:35 <stickster> Sparks_too: I would be willing to split these with someone
18:12:47 <stickster> smooge: We need the CCK and Views modules packaged still
18:13:24 <stickster> #idea stickster will review smooge's packages if Sparks_too can take the ones Sven just did (referenced in link above)
18:14:03 <smooge> I would like a training course of reviewing packages. I j
18:14:49 <stickster> smooge: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ReviewGuidelines
18:15:38 <stickster> Generally I just go through the specfile line by line, match each one to its guideline (where possible), and make sure it fits the guidelines wrt. MUST/SHOULD
18:16:12 <stickster> Sparks_too: What say you to my split above?
18:17:07 <Sparks_too> stickster: I'll do my best
18:17:42 <stickster> Sparks_too: If you can't do all of them -- totally understandable -- can you commit to one or two?
18:18:16 <stickster> I'll start by taking one :-)
18:18:27 <Sparks_too> stickster: This may be something I can easily do on my trip to DC this weekend.  I just have never done it before.
18:18:54 <stickster> Sparks_too: You might want to tap ianweller to see if he can point you to a good review to start with
18:19:02 <Sparks_too> Yes
18:19:22 <Sparks_too> stickster: So I'll start with flexifilter...
18:20:10 <stickster> #action Sparks_too Talk to ianweller to find a good review to study, then review Flexifilter module (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=642856)
18:20:24 <stickster> #action stickster review Footnotes module (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=642858)
18:20:50 <stickster> #action stickster assign Advanced Help module review following completion
18:21:20 <stickster> #topic View for FWN
18:22:01 <stickster> So as far as the View setup goes -- I haven't seen pcalarco talk about it on the list yet, so not sure what he's finished there. I just received a stack of Drupal books and am reading them when I have spare cycles
18:22:15 <stickster> But I'll be in Westford next week and unlikely to get a lot done there for my own projects like this.
18:22:54 <stickster> #action stickster ping pcalarco on list to see if he's made any headway, otherwise keep studying Views in his new books and try to pitch in
18:23:44 <stickster> Anything else on this?
18:23:57 <smooge> book reviews for Drupal at some point?
18:24:35 <stickster> smooge: I got three very different books -- Pro Drupal Development on Apress, Front End Drupal by Emma Jane Hogbin et al., and Using Drupal from O'Reilly
18:24:56 <stickster> The first is about developing modules; the second is about developing themes; and the third is about general administration
18:24:56 <smooge> if its OT I can wait for more after the meeting
18:25:01 <stickster> smooge: Not at all!
18:25:17 <smooge> the general administration I probably need the most
18:25:21 <stickster> #topic Drupal Book Club
18:25:47 <stickster> #info a set of Pro Drupal Development (Apress), Front End Drupal, and Using Drupal (O'Reilly) run about $95 at Amazon
18:25:58 <stickster> Each book was only ~$30
18:26:10 <stickster> All seem very meaty, not fluffy
18:26:29 <smooge> ah good
18:26:41 <stickster> #info All were well reviewed on Amazon too
18:26:46 <rbergeron> woo
18:26:58 * stickster brb, goes to grab them
18:27:48 <stickster> smooge: Of note, Using Drupal (the general book) goes into quite a few community contributed modules
18:27:56 <stickster> Not just the core -- so it's useful beyond just the absolute barebones stuff
18:29:20 <stickster> Any other questions about these books? I'd recommend Using Drupal for general stuff, esp. if you plan to pitch in to actually run this thing.
18:29:36 * jsmith has the "Using Drupal" book, if anybody wants to borrow it
18:29:47 <stickster> jsmith: Nice!
18:30:07 <stickster> Moving on then.
18:30:36 <stickster> #topic Readiness/schedule
18:30:57 <stickster> #idea We are not likely to make the final change deadline, should we reset schedule to stage after F14 release?
18:32:08 <stickster> *chirp chirp*
18:32:20 <smooge> sorry reading background
18:32:21 <rbergeron> I suppose so :)
18:32:32 <Sparks_too> I don't think we have a choice
18:32:58 <stickster> What if we reset our schedule to accommodate an extra ~4 weeks/1 month of work?
18:33:11 <stickster> Or am I being too optimistic? You guys tell me.
18:33:54 <Sparks_too> It depends on the theme, correct?
18:34:28 <smooge> I think 1 month is going to run into Xmas schedules
18:34:31 <stickster> Sparks_too: Yes, to some extent -- we need either (1) hiemanshu to get his internet connection back, or (2) one or more of us in this meeting need to work on rustling up some more designers.
18:34:51 <stickster> smooge: So I was thinking about trying to stage ~Nov 10, and production ~Dec 1
18:34:59 <stickster> Which I think clears those holidays nicely
18:34:59 <Sparks_too> Can we snail mail hiemanshu?
18:35:20 <smooge> Our best issue would be FudCon PHX
18:37:22 <stickster> smooge: Wow, that's quite a ways off though. On the other hand, I don't feel like we have a huge increase in labor coming, so...
18:37:51 <stickster> I think waiting until we're all together in one place to actually do anything is a major failure in open collaboration, even if it's not anyone's fault
18:38:08 <stickster> Our model is supposed to help us work together without having to be f2f.
18:38:36 <smooge> stickster, at this moment its not too far off now. 1 month after release is Dec 2nd. 2 month after release is Jan 2. 3 month after is Feb 1. But End of Nov -> End of Dec ends up being even less volunteer time
18:39:14 <smooge> if we have a delay in release it cuts down time even furhter
18:39:42 <smooge> I wasn't looking at it as being a F2F issue. More of "here is an event, here is a launch, here is us celebrating event and launch"
18:39:42 <stickster> smooge: So what you're saying is, we should shoot for production pre-alpha, so we don't run into any release-related stuff?
18:40:08 <stickster> Sparks_too: I don't have hiemanshu's address, but let me check around
18:40:27 <smooge> I think I am now confused over which production pre-alpha and which release :). Fedora 14 release is Nov 2 (or so)
18:41:22 <smooge> production pre-alpha of insight could be anytime from Nov 2-> Nov 21st
18:41:30 <stickster> smooge: You mentioned FUDCon in Tempe as an anchor point. That would be end of January 2011, which is in the F15 release cycle. So I asked about pre-alpha meaning pre-F15 alpha
18:41:59 <smooge> I would like to have Insight up and running by then
18:42:26 <stickster> smooge: So if F15 launches around the end of April, that would put Alpha around the end of January
18:42:38 <stickster> Maybe beginning of February
18:42:42 <smooge> I think its a good goal with the people who have split attention on other issues being able to focus on Insight by then
18:42:48 <smooge> correct
18:43:02 <stickster> smooge: So you're saying we should try and have it ready to go so we could show it off at FUDCon Tempe?
18:43:19 <Sparks_too> absolutely
18:43:30 <rbergeron> we'll allllll be there :)
18:43:32 <smooge> correct
18:44:03 <smooge> I am not saying we need to have a push at the Con, but its ready for us to have a drink saying "shit this took a long time but damn its good"
18:44:52 <stickster> smooge: OK, I understand
18:45:16 * stickster can get behind that, if he can get the rest of the team to help with some of the development efforts
18:45:56 <stickster> One thing I would offer that someone could take up without having to learn a bunch of Drupal is to inject themselves into a Drupal group somewhere and find out if there are Drupalistas who want to help out Fedora
18:47:06 <stickster> Which they could do over the next couple of weeks to find us some assistance. We're running into the scalability problem here, and we need a more robust, committed group to work on this stuff to get it done by any date, incl. January
18:47:37 <smooge> yes..
18:47:41 <pcalarco> stickster: sorry I am late; had a conflict mtg
18:48:07 <stickster> pcalarco: Hi!
18:48:48 <stickster> So is there someone who can commit to getting on http://{groups.,}drupal.org and seeing if there are people who'd like to become Fedora contributors this way?
18:51:07 <stickster> OK, no response.
18:51:24 <Sparks_too> I can put it on my ever-growing todo list
18:52:16 <stickster> Sparks_too: I totally appreciate the gesture. But adding it to a list when you can't commit is not going to help. I definitely sympathize, which is why I'm not doing it myself. I want someone to commit to it, and if no one does, that's a definitive answer too.
18:52:17 <smooge> Yeah.. I think we need to first get some people here to help us recruit other people :)
18:52:41 <smooge> I am currently pretty tasked out
18:53:06 <stickster> smooge: That may be the long and short of it. I'll commit to doing a long blog post to explain where we are and what we need.
18:53:50 <stickster> #action stickster Do a big-picture blog post of where we are and what we need people to help us with, esp. getting some more Drupal intermediate-to-expert folks or at least people who are willing to learn *and have time to do so*
18:53:59 <pcalarco> so, I am looking at the groups.dupal.org site, and we'd essentially create a new Fedora group and then use that to attract people and also perhaps join other groups to get ppl to help with our needs?
18:54:26 <stickster> pcalarco: See, that sounds like a great plan to me.
18:54:35 <smooge> If we can add 1-2 people -people to this we can get more traction. [This is where adding people actually makes useful.]
18:55:00 <pcalarco> I can commit to helping with this
18:55:15 <stickster> The draw for them would probably not be much more than "We are a compatible free software project with relatively meager needs who don't mind conversing with us on a list or IRC"
18:55:35 <stickster> pcalarco: Can you accomplish that while working on the View for FWN?
18:55:46 * stickster doesn't want to just stretch thin resources thinner :-)
18:55:57 <pcalarco> stickster: yes, I think so; I have made some headway there in the last week
18:56:23 <smooge> cool pcalarco
18:56:38 <stickster> AWESOME
18:56:40 * stickster hugs pcalarco
18:57:13 <pcalarco> this is all good for me, learning lots :)
18:57:19 <stickster> #action pcalarco Embed into groups.drupal.org, create a Fedora group, and possibly join others -- then make noise to attract some like-minded souls
18:57:26 <stickster> Brilliant.
18:57:44 <pcalarco> stickster: I can reuse content from you long blog post for the new Fedora group
18:58:02 <stickster> pcalarco: Sure, and can you do the canvassing of Ambassadors we talked about last week?
18:58:15 <stickster> That could come from our previous conversations, this log, Sparks_too's blog post...
18:58:22 <pcalarco> stickster: yes, that's still on my to-do list but will by tomorrow
18:58:32 <pcalarco> yes
18:58:36 <stickster> Are we agreed that we're going to reset our schedule for ~January?
18:59:12 <stickster> On second thought, let's discuss that on the list.
18:59:21 * stickster has nothing further and has a hard stop at :00.
18:59:35 <stickster> Can we close this meeting?
18:59:41 <Sparks_too> +1
18:59:49 <pcalarco> I will send my updates to logistics with Views
18:59:54 <stickster> pcalarco: SUPERB.
19:00:09 <stickster> OK then, thanks everyone.
19:00:13 <stickster> #endmeeting