15:02:53 <quaid> #startmeeting
15:02:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 10 15:02:53 2010 UTC.  The chair is quaid. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:03:21 <quaid> #topic Fedora/JBoss.org GSoC
15:03:33 <quaid> I'm going to have to manuallyfix that at the end :)
15:03:33 <loupgaroublond> cool, zodbot's working :)
15:03:41 <loupgaroublond> oh, right, not -gsoc
15:03:43 * quaid grabs a cup of offee
15:03:49 <quaid> good day all
15:03:57 <loupgaroublond> good morning quaid
15:05:36 <quaid> the only thing going on right now is the application
15:05:46 <quaid> after we do a check-in, I ws going to load it in to gobby to work on
15:05:58 <quaid> then post that back to the list so others can see, influence, learn, etc.
15:06:14 * pwbarnes will poke in as he is able.
15:06:32 <quaid> pwbarnes: that's why the list, too, so if you can't be here now, you an be there later
15:09:34 <quaid> pilhuhn: is there any mechanism for talking with the whole jboss.org community?
15:09:45 <quaid> something like fedora-announce
15:10:02 * quaid knows we can request some real estate on the .org front page perhaps
15:10:11 <pilhuhn> not really afaik - the blog aggregator is probably closest
15:10:31 <quaid> ok, then getting you and anyone else writing there is going to be important
15:11:05 <quaid> but it would be good to reach out to open community folks for mentors, so I don't want to get stuck only able to reach folks via thecore, etc.
15:11:45 <pilhuhn> community.jboss.org main page is also a good location.
15:12:41 <pilhuhn> and then of course jbossNews twitter feed
15:13:35 <quaid> ok, we're almost done with the messaging index for each audience (student, mentor, sub-porjproject, upstream)
15:13:47 * quaid has bad latency over irc this morning, sorry for misteaks and ypso
15:15:09 <quaid> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/summer-coding/2010-March/000025.html
15:15:29 <quaid> that is the body of the proposal we are doing
15:15:58 <quaid> I'm loading it in to gobby.fedoraproject.org
15:17:22 <quaid> I can pass the password to anyone who doesn't have it, via pm
15:17:51 <quaid> pwbarnes: btw, where did the form come from? URL?Is it a free hand or an entry form?
15:18:53 * quaid takes a shot at main license as GPL/LGPL
15:19:45 <loupgaroublond> good question
15:20:13 <loupgaroublond> not to bike shed, but i do wonder if that's the best answer
15:20:28 <loupgaroublond> </just-musing-randomly>
15:21:07 <pilhuhn> some jboss.org projects also have eclipse or apache licenses afaik
15:21:16 <quaid> esp. since the question is singular
15:21:25 <loupgaroublond> so many's not an option?
15:21:30 <quaid> we're going to munge the form a bit to get two different groups in it
15:21:38 <quaid> loupgaroublond: feels like not
15:21:55 <quaid> and from what I recall, GPL and LGPL cover a lot of ground, probably the most across both
15:22:06 * loupgaroublond makes a mental note for the next time we have an umbrella org meeting
15:25:03 <pwbarnes> quaid: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org_app/take/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/orgapp
15:25:11 <computercolin> The GSoC site lists some guidelines for the app, which match the prompts
15:25:11 <computercolin> #link http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#org_app
15:25:30 <quaid> pwbarnes: thank you!
15:25:38 * quaid just couldn't find it :)
15:25:58 <quaid> #link http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#org_app
15:26:06 <quaid> btw, anyone can use the #link capability of zobot/meetbot
15:28:38 <mmcgrath> quaid: when a meeting is going... I believe so.
15:29:43 <pwbarnes> We will have to select a single license as the "main" org license.  I have answered with the GPL in the past.  It does not limit us in any way.
15:30:21 <pilhuhn> at least all licenses are OSI approved, which is what Google requires
15:31:18 <Southern_Gentlem> quaid actually the bot grabs all links now #link is not needed
15:31:20 <computercolin> Anyone have a site that lists past SoCs? Would it include information on whether projects "passed"?
15:31:35 <loupgaroublond> Southern_Gentlem, is the rest of the line treated as a comment?
15:32:15 <computercolin> perhaps http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2009-red-hat/
15:32:19 <quaid> computercolin: yes ... the Melange app has it,with full details for any of use who were mentors for that year (iirc)
15:32:48 <quaid> thanks for looking that up :)
15:33:16 <quaid> I think we may have had one person failed mid-year last year, iirc
15:34:29 <quaid> ok, so I think I see how this hasworked -- pwbarnes in the past has pointed at aggregate Fedora  pages, e.g. for ideas it goes to one page that hen links to >1 idea page
15:34:47 <quaid> s/hen/then/
15:35:15 <pilhuhn> yes, I recall jboss.org having a wiki page about GSoC at their wiki
15:35:54 <pwbarnes> JBoss.org has had their own idea wiki pages, cross-linked with the Fedora Project idea pages.
15:38:15 <quaid> yeah, that helps with the "singular" nature of this form
15:39:08 <quaid> computercolin: one of us who has mentor for those years can double-check
15:39:25 <quaid> there is also my report from last year:  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GSoC_report_2009
15:39:49 <pwbarnes> Unfortunately, Melange does not have data for the years before it was implemented.
15:40:03 <quaid> yeah, I dug through the old app for that report
15:41:14 <quaid> ah, like the generic "summer coding"ideas page
15:41:20 <quaid> we may be able to use some of that for the RIT connection
15:43:23 <pwbarnes> There are three areas we are really going to have to work on this year...
15:44:01 <pwbarnes> 1. Communication - This has always been a trouble spot for us.  We have to get members of the distinct communities talking, and we have to keep communication up between mentors and students.
15:44:57 <pwbarnes> 1. Availability of Resources - This has been something we have made progress on each year.  Wiki, mailing lists, IRC, documentation, planning, etc. can all use improvement.
15:45:06 <pwbarnes> ^2
15:45:21 <pilhuhn> JBoss.org pages: http://community.jboss.org/wiki/GSoC and http://community.jboss.org/wiki/GoogleSummerofCode2009
15:45:37 <quaid> pwbarnes: do you have a copy of last year's application?
15:46:09 <pwbarnes> 3. Fragmentation of Resources - As we have set up new resources, we have also fragmented somewhat.  We have the two Google groups, assorted pages on the Fedora wiki, the mailing list at l.fp.o... we need to get this stuff consolidated and interconnected.
15:46:31 <pwbarnes> quaid: I *think* I made a copy, let me see if I can find it...
15:48:11 <dash123> pwbarnes: 1. communication? how so
15:48:21 <quaid> yeah, fragmentation is something that is concerning me a bit at the moment
15:48:41 <quaid> mainly for wasted effort, but also for inevitable confusion from everyone
15:49:17 <pwbarnes> dash123: I have always gotten the impression that communication between mentors and students is not where it should be, and we definitely have a barrier between Fedora and JBoss.org and among their sub-projects.
15:50:15 <quaid> right, in some cases comms is stellar, in others it has sucked
15:50:29 <quaid> that is IMO  why we are looking for a heavier commitment from mentors
15:50:32 <pwbarnes> quaid: I cannot readily find a copy of the old app.
15:50:41 <quaid> if they won't commit before the deadlines, we won't give up preious slots to them
15:51:11 <quaid> pwbarnes: computercolin is trying to sort out our success ration
15:51:17 <quaid> s/tion/io/
15:51:29 * quaid kicks his latency
15:52:16 <pwbarnes> quaid: Awesome.  I know we have always done well, but my memory is not good enough to provide numbers.
15:52:38 <computercolin> :P, quid or pwbarnes, you'll have better luck looking through the 2009 Melange stuff
15:52:56 <computercolin> I assume last years app would also have success numbers?
15:53:25 <quaid> I don't think we have had more than 1 dropout or failure per year
15:54:18 <computercolin> Okay, I can put that down. Getting previous years app would be great.
15:54:35 <computercolin> Things like "dealing with disappearing students" shouldn't have changed much (?)
15:56:41 <pwbarnes> computercolin: Last year's app did not ask for historic success/failure numbers.
15:58:00 <quaid> I'm positive we had some perfect years, too
15:58:06 <quaid> what I don't know is if that is a good sign :)
15:58:37 <computercolin> Hmm, suggestions on how we can deduce that information? Or perhaps it better to just write "never more than 1 failure per year"
15:59:20 <dgilmore> quaid: reminds me i was approached to mentor someone
15:59:51 <quaid> dgilmore: cool!
15:59:57 <quaid> ... prsuming youa re interested :)
16:00:21 <pilhuhn> ok, gotta drop off ...
16:00:28 <dgilmore> quaid: yeah i am :)
16:00:36 <quaid> yeah, I have another meeting
16:00:41 <quaid> but I'll keep working in gobby
16:00:45 <quaid> and we'll post back to the list
16:02:23 <computercolin> sdziallas, we meet in digital form
16:02:59 <mchua> oy, clock fail
16:03:01 * mchua reads backlog
16:03:39 * pwbarnes updates http://groups.google.com/group/redhat-summer
16:03:44 * loupgaroublond wonders if there's a way to get ical of fedora meetings, so it can automagically do UTC translation
16:03:49 <mchua> Note to self: during conferences, just plan on skipping meetings.
16:03:59 <pwbarnes> quaid: endmeeting?
16:04:34 <mchua> loupgaroublond: It would be nice to have something better than https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meetings in terms of "people are aware of this," yeah
16:04:50 <mchua> computercolin: ahoy :)
16:05:55 <quaid> if there is not another group needing the channel ...
16:05:57 <computercolin> mchua, conference? Which?
16:06:21 <mchua> computercolin: http://cseet2010.dei.uc.pt/index.php/Main_Page
16:06:32 <quaid> actually, my meeting is now changed, so i can multitask and be here
16:06:40 <quaid> do we want to keep the meeting openfor now?
16:06:53 <mchua> Hey computercolin, do you know about #fedora-gsoc? Another channel you may want to hang out in.
16:07:04 <mchua> quaid:  If there's gobbification happening in the background, probably a good idea
16:07:07 * mchua fires up ze gobby
16:11:35 <quaid> computercolin: this has some information: http://code.google.com/soc/
16:11:44 <quaid> under "Participating ..."
16:11:44 <computercolin> Getting students to stick with projects after GSoC requires some thought, esp considering we list "sticking with" as a challenge in the past
16:11:51 <quaid> e.g. http://code.google.com/soc/2005/results.html
16:13:31 <quaid> I think 2006 (http://code.google.com/soc/2006/fedora/about.html) was 5/5 for completion
16:13:50 <computercolin> Hmm, some of the SF projects are dead, sign of success :P
16:14:24 <pwbarnes> For the home page, we are going to have to use a single URL.  Last year, I used http://groups.google.com/group/redhat-summer and pointed to all of our key resources from there.  I suggest doing the same thing again.
16:16:27 * mchua looking up pass/fail data (not sure if it's visible from Google's site, but... finding out soon)
16:16:27 <computercolin> Those pages need a fair bit of updating "OLPC Summer of Content" :P
16:18:13 <quaid> pwbarnes: one of my problems with that has been a limited # oiff people who can edit
16:18:54 <quaid> if we pick a wiki page as pirmary, we increase our potential contributor pool for fixing/adding/maintaining by 1000x
16:19:20 <quaid> e.g. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GSoC_2010
16:19:53 <mchua> computercolin: Oh, yes. Now you see why we have so much work to do here. ;)
16:20:15 <quaid> I'm not sure success is included in the apps
16:20:32 <computercolin> yes, I started making a list of pages on redhat-summer that need editing (since I cannot do myself)
16:20:39 <mchua> computercolin: have you met quaid and pwbarnes? They've been doing GSoC org stuff for quite some time
16:20:44 <pwbarnes> quaid: I believe it is set so that any group member may edit the pages, and anyone involved in the GSoC must have a Google account, so joining the group is easy.
16:20:51 <computercolin> wiki would be good
16:21:36 <mchua> quaid, pwbarnes: computercolin is here to help esp. with the generic-ization of the Summer Coding model - we're both fresh eyes with an interest in program design, so we can ask all the stupid questions together ;)
16:21:38 <computercolin> pending :-(
16:22:08 <quaid> do you think students are confused to have the non-Fedora/JBoss page with a Red Hat name as the main URL?
16:22:28 * quaid also thinks having a link to fp.org for jboss.org students is also confusing ...
16:22:28 <pwbarnes> While Fedora's existing contributor pool has access to the Fedora wiki, the same cannot be said of JBoss.org folks.  Since they must already have a Google account, the barrier to entry for the Google group is lower.
16:22:49 <pwbarnes> We are going to have some confusion, no matter what we do.  Google forces that on us.
16:22:51 <quaid> well, wiki edit access is easy to get, but I hear ya
16:23:09 <pwbarnes> If we are up-front about why Fedora and JBoss.org are in it together, then seeing the Red Hat name should not be too confusing.
16:23:19 <quaid> ok
16:23:53 <pwbarnes> Then, using that page as a pointer to the other resources allows some abstraction so that we do not have to force JBoss.org people to Fedora or vice-versa.
16:24:02 <quaid> seems to me that the argumentsmake the googlegrpup page the better choice then
16:25:09 <pwbarnes> We should probably work "Red Hat" into the description on the org app for that very reason.
16:25:25 <quaid> ok
16:26:07 <quaid> mchua: I sorta want the "Fedora description" to include the "one of it's outputs is a Linux distro"
16:26:29 <mchua> ARGH LACK OF GOBBY UNDO
16:26:30 <quaid> that is, I want students to see from that descript inclusivity for wider ideas than "just Linux"
16:26:37 <pwbarnes> Here is the GSoC "Home" page for Red Hat from last year's program: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/home/google/gsoc2009/redhat
16:26:39 <quaid> gobby--
16:27:08 <computercolin> Yeah, gobby always get me with that one.
16:27:15 <mchua> quaid: better?
16:27:38 <quaid> yeah
16:27:38 <computercolin> Fedora run an EtherPad setup?
16:27:39 * mchua tries to fix jboss descript.
16:27:41 <quaid> as good as we can get
16:27:52 <quaid> computercolin: is that FLOSS yet?
16:28:00 <mchua> quaid: The license is, yeah
16:28:02 <quaid> even if so, to get a setup is going to require some work :)
16:28:17 <quaid> probably less than Zikula, though :)
16:28:29 <mchua> apache license 2.0
16:28:36 <mchua> http://code.google.com/p/etherpad/
16:28:47 <mchua> they'll stop hosting march 31st, according to http://etherpad.com/ep/blog/posts/etherpad-open-source-release
16:31:04 * quaid wants etherpad
16:32:25 * pwbarnes has to take off.  Will check back in later.
16:33:46 <quaid> k thx
16:35:04 <computercolin> cya
16:37:39 <quaid> ok, I have confirmatiokn that we had 8/9 for 2009
16:37:43 <quaid> Melange now show sthat nicely
16:37:56 <quaid> http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_project/manage_overview/google/gsoc2009/redhat (not sure who can see that)
16:48:20 <computercolin> Exciting, the google group is preventing me from moving 2008 project teams and make room for a team page for this year grr
16:49:38 <quaid> ^o_O^?
16:51:12 <pwbarnes> computercolin: In order to get the table the way I wanted it, I edited that page as HTML, which is probably why you are having trouble.  You should be able to add an entirely new page, though.
16:52:24 * pwbarnes sees what you are talking about.
16:52:41 <pwbarnes> Yeah... if you edit the HTML, you should be able to delete the old stuff.
17:03:25 <computercolin> Nah, the trick was I wanted to create an archive page with contents of the project page
17:03:33 <computercolin> Instead I've created pages the "don't exist"
17:03:44 <computercolin> http://groups.google.com/group/redhat-summer/web/gsoc-2008-project-teams
17:04:31 <computercolin> alas I have class, cya
17:10:04 <pwbarnes> I have finished what computercolin had started for the project listings on the redhat-summer group.
17:10:27 <pwbarnes> I have also updated the other redhat-summer pages for 2010, including the assorted project links.
17:10:55 <pwbarnes> I have created a stub page for GSoC 2010 on the JBoss.org wiki and linked to it from the main JBoss.org GSoC page.
17:13:39 <pwbarnes> Once again, I must take off.  Will check back in later.
17:14:07 <quaid> ok, I'm closing the meeting
17:14:13 <quaid> we can continue chat on #fedora-gsoc
17:14:17 <quaid> #endmeeting