05:05:30 <juhp> #startmeeting i18n
05:05:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Feb 25 05:05:30 2010 UTC.  The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:05:33 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:05:47 <juhp> #halp
05:05:50 <juhp> ;)
05:05:58 <juhp> sorry always wanted to do that
05:06:07 <juhp> hi and welcome to this week's i18n meeting
05:06:17 <juhp> hi tagoh3, epico_laptop
05:06:29 <epico_laptop> hello
05:06:36 <tagoh3> hehe
05:08:21 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2010-02-25
05:08:30 <juhp> anyone else here for the meeting
05:09:04 <juhp> well let's get started
05:11:47 <dychen_> hi
05:12:10 <juhp> ok
05:12:30 <juhp> #topic previous minutes
05:14:59 <juhp> ok no action items from last meeting I think
05:15:38 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule
05:16:10 <juhp> I think f13 is still slipping a bit
05:17:03 <juhp> rc3 should be available now
05:17:37 <juhp> well I managed an install with f12 anaconda with 1GB of mem yesterday...
05:18:46 <juhp> #topic f13 relnotes
05:18:59 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_I18n_Beat
05:19:14 <juhp> we need some release notes for f13 I guess?
05:19:25 <juhp> or do we? :)
05:19:44 <juhp> phuang: what should be said about ibus?
05:20:59 <phuang> maybe some new features in engines
05:22:03 <phuang> I think we implemented some new features in anthy, chewing, hangul, pinyin and etc
05:22:38 <juhp> phuang: could you start to listen them on the page with bullet points say?
05:22:53 <phuang> ok
05:23:41 <rabbit8888> ok
05:23:46 <juhp> phuang: and can you ask for input from the IME guys too
05:23:58 <rabbit8888> i think
05:23:59 <phuang> sure
05:24:02 <juhp> hi rabbit8888?
05:24:04 <rabbit8888> now im calmed down
05:24:18 <rabbit8888> evilbob you may unban me now
05:24:29 <rabbit8888> im calmed down
05:24:54 <juhp> ok
05:25:25 <juhp> dychen_, kaio_strauss: any ibus news for f13 relnotes?
05:25:34 <rabbit8888> ill see
05:25:39 <rabbit8888> for fun
05:26:27 <juhp> paragn, pravins: how about you guys?
05:26:34 <kaio_strauss> juhp☺ new tables
05:26:37 <juhp> tagoh3: can you think of something?
05:26:42 <dychen_> juhp:  Mainly fix for Hsu Zhuyin keyboard users.
05:26:43 <kaio_strauss> juhp☺ I will put that on wiki asap
05:26:51 <kaio_strauss> many many new tables
05:26:53 <juhp> cool
05:26:59 <rabbit8888> if this is about f13 the backgrounds are 10/10 so far!!!
05:27:05 <pravins> juhp: hi
05:27:24 <rabbit8888> is it?
05:27:29 <juhp> rabbit8888: you're in the Internationalization meeting
05:27:41 <tagoh3> juhp: hmm, not particularly off hand - let me think more later
05:27:42 <rabbit8888> ok
05:28:05 <juhp> tagoh3: ok - I can't think of more off-hand either
05:28:07 <juhp> fontconfig?
05:28:13 <juhp> maybe not
05:28:52 <juhp> anyway if we have things to tell our users about f13 we should write them there - maybe diffing comps would be useful?
05:29:05 <juhp> if someone has time? :)
05:29:59 <rabbit8888> ok...
05:30:18 <juhp> #action phuang et al to get ibus and IME relnotes bullet points into wiki
05:30:25 <dychen_> rabbit8888: You want to do it? great. :-)
05:30:40 <rabbit8888> what
05:31:02 <juhp> rabbit8888: just here to be noisy?
05:31:09 <rabbit8888> nope
05:31:09 <phuang> I have added some on wiki page
05:31:17 <juhp> thanks!
05:31:41 <rabbit8888> wherw
05:31:44 <juhp> maybe we will review next week and see if anything else needs adding
05:31:45 <rabbit8888> wqhere??
05:31:48 <rabbit8888> where>
05:31:51 <rabbit8888> where?
05:31:59 <rabbit8888> annoying keyboard...
05:32:01 <juhp> can someone kick this guy?
05:32:38 <EvilBob> juhp: here you go
05:32:43 <nirik> rabbit8888: please stop disrupting this meeting.
05:32:45 <rabbit8888> ok
05:32:55 <juhp> thanks nirik
05:33:54 <rabbit8888> ok just got the agenda ill refer to it for this meeting
05:34:03 <juhp> cool
05:34:19 <rabbit8888> anyone that wants it here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2010-02-25
05:35:03 <juhp> #topic f13 bugs
05:35:13 <juhp> phew
05:35:25 <EvilBob> juhp: Sorry about that
05:35:39 <juhp> that's ok...
05:36:51 <juhp> hmm my blocker bug url seems to be broken
05:37:48 <juhp> ok it is only the vlgothic bug I moved yesterday :)
05:39:26 <juhp> sorry just adding to the agenda page
05:41:31 <juhp> blockers: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=fedora-i18n-bugs@redhat.com&field0-0-0=blocked&type0-0-0=equals&value0-0-0=507681
05:41:45 <juhp> target: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=fedora-i18n-bugs@redhat.com&field0-0-0=blocked&type0-0-0=equals&value0-0-0=507684
05:42:01 <juhp> anyway will keep them on the wiki page for coming meeting to track
05:42:26 <juhp> tagoh3: you think un-core-fonts really needs changes?
05:42:41 <juhp> bug 563409
05:42:55 <juhp> .bug 563409
05:42:57 <zodbot> juhp: Bug 563409 fontconfig-2.8.0-1 changes default Monospace font from DejaVu Sans Mono to Baekmuk Gulim - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=563409
05:43:27 <tagoh3> it may be good to retest it though, if nothing changed yet, I think so
05:43:57 <juhp> tagoh3: ok I can try fc-match i guess
05:44:13 <juhp> at least I dunno how to reproduce in desktop
05:47:12 <juhp> let's check other f13 bugs
05:47:58 <petersenliman> ok
05:48:43 <juhp> let me add the gettext merge review to i18n-bugs
05:48:47 <juhp> ;)
05:49:25 <juhp> ok it *is* closed
05:49:44 <juhp> ok
05:51:20 <juhp> I guess we should move bugs we want to fix for beta to F13Target
05:51:46 <juhp> 3 f13 bugs and rest are rawhide I guess
05:51:50 <tagoh3> sounds good
05:52:20 <juhp> 78 rawhide bugs
05:54:37 <juhp> anyone see any bugs that should be target?
05:54:49 <juhp> I just added wqy-bitmap-fonts
05:56:25 <juhp> tagoh3: too late to change vlgothic*fonts for alpha I guess?
05:56:51 <juhp> anyway let's move on
05:56:53 <tagoh3> hmm, dunno
05:57:09 <juhp> ok well only if you can/have time would be good...
05:57:17 <tagoh3> ok
05:57:20 <juhp> still wqy is overriding ja
05:57:35 <juhp> so not very nice for any ja testers
05:58:02 <tagoh3> is it installed by default anyway regardless of the language?
05:58:06 <juhp> even just vlgothic-fonts would be a good start
05:58:11 <juhp> tagoh3: correct
05:58:17 <tagoh3> hm
05:58:40 <juhp> which is why it is a blocker :)
05:58:51 <tagoh3> gotcha
05:59:05 <juhp> #topic Splitting Chinese comps (epico)
05:59:30 <juhp> epico_laptop suggested the idea of resplitting Chinese to TC and SC
05:59:59 <juhp> I think it makes sense personally (and dunno why we merged them really to be honest;)
06:00:12 <juhp> (why did we actually?)
06:00:17 <juhp> anyway
06:00:44 <juhp> phuang, dychen_, kaio_strauss: what say you?
06:01:10 <kaio_strauss> chinese-support?
06:01:12 <juhp> it would allow providing cjkuni for TC and wqy for SC
06:01:18 <juhp> kaio_strauss: right
06:01:24 <kaio_strauss> sure why not
06:01:46 <dychen_> juhp: I don't mind.
06:01:54 <juhp> currently we have a problem of cjkuni and wqy competing for priority
06:02:09 <juhp> but... even with splitting that problem doesn't do away per se
06:02:32 <juhp> the issue of font priorities is still there
06:02:43 <tagoh3> lang testing doesn't help?
06:02:53 <juhp> tagoh3: good point
06:02:59 <juhp> I guess it would :)
06:03:04 <juhp> nice
06:03:10 <epico_laptop> maybe just better when user only choose one of SC and TC support.
06:03:12 <tagoh3> I was wondering why Chinese fonts packages doesn't follow the font policy at all
06:03:29 <juhp> tagoh3: they don't? :)
06:03:42 <epico_laptop> tagoh3: I got a mail complaining this.
06:03:59 <juhp> epico_laptop: what was the conclusion/problem?
06:04:13 <phuang> wqy for TC is not OK?
06:04:29 <juhp> not sure if we can still split for f13 but I guess we could if we do it quickly in time for beta - ie right after alpha
06:04:45 <juhp> phuang: maybe not?
06:04:59 <epico_laptop> I think it just don't follow the font policy.
06:05:02 <phuang> I don't know
06:05:14 <juhp> s/?// :)
06:05:20 <juhp> well I dunno either
06:05:26 <kaio_strauss> wqy glyphs are in SC style
06:05:32 <juhp> right
06:05:36 <phuang> ic
06:05:36 <kaio_strauss> strokes are different
06:05:38 <epico_laptop> wqy font package is ok.
06:05:56 <juhp> epico_laptop: hm
06:06:50 <juhp> anyway it is not just fonts but also langpacks and IMEs
06:07:37 <juhp> well I want to avoid politics but I think it makes sense for users to separate the two
06:07:59 <juhp> tagoh3: so we should make zenhei default for SC I guess
06:08:13 <tagoh3> aha
06:08:19 <juhp> .whoowns wqy-zenhei-fonts
06:08:20 <zodbot> juhp: fangq
06:08:40 <juhp> epico_laptop: can you take care of that?
06:08:55 <juhp> just changing fontconfig from zh to zh-cn ?
06:09:12 <juhp> maybe better to file a bug to document it
06:09:19 <epico_laptop> ok. no problem.
06:09:24 <juhp> thanks
06:09:34 <tagoh3> juhp: yep, that should works for this purpose
06:09:45 <juhp> kaio_strauss: you need to change cjkuni to be for non zh-cn
06:09:58 <epico_laptop> juhp: pardon? wqy-zenhei-fonts or split tasks?
06:10:01 <juhp> ie zh-{tw,hk,?}
06:10:13 <juhp> epico_laptop: wqy
06:10:27 <epico_laptop> I see.
06:10:41 <juhp> epico_laptop: let's wait with changing comps until alpha is baked
06:10:45 <juhp> at least
06:11:07 <juhp> epico_laptop: hmm actually we have non-frozen rawhide
06:11:11 <juhp> was forgetting
06:11:24 <juhp> I think we could make changes now to comps-f14
06:11:37 <epico_laptop> juhp: split it in rawhide?
06:11:45 <juhp> but at least for f13 I dunno
06:12:09 <juhp> epico_laptop: I think we could do it for f14 there as an experiment yes
06:12:22 <epico_laptop> juhp: ok.
06:14:23 <juhp> I wonder if there is some SOP for API changes on the wiki?
06:14:51 <juhp> wonder if nirik might know?
06:15:16 * nirik looks up.
06:15:21 <nirik> whats the question?
06:15:40 <nirik> comps changes for rawhide/f14? sure.
06:15:41 <juhp> anyway just thinking it would be a good reference for when we come to do major updates to ibus, etc to avoid repo breakage, etc
06:16:18 <juhp> nirik: no, well wondering if there is a page to describe process for breaking API etc?
06:16:53 <nirik> I don't know that we have any specific page on that...
06:17:05 <juhp> well I think the basic drill is: send headsup to devel list, etc, rebuild all packages with override etc...
06:17:11 <juhp> ok thanks
06:17:27 <nirik> yeah, announce and a list of affected packages at least.
06:17:39 <juhp> perhaps I will make one to help us
06:17:42 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_maintainer_responsibilities#Notify_others_of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages
06:17:52 <juhp> aha
06:18:11 <juhp> okay
06:18:24 <juhp> #topic free space
06:18:33 <juhp> nirik: thanks
06:18:44 <juhp> any other things to talk about?
06:19:38 <juhp> we can close the meeting after a minute or two of silence :)
06:21:12 <juhp> okay thanks for meeting!
06:21:29 <juhp> #endmeeting