04:10:11 <PhrkOnLsh> #startmeeting
04:10:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Nov 28 04:10:11 2009 UTC.  The chair is PhrkOnLsh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
04:10:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
04:10:20 <PhrkOnLsh> #topic Fedora-Tour UI sprint
04:10:34 <PhrkOnLsh> franciscod: do you have your UI mockups uploadded anywhere?
04:10:40 <franciscod> gimme a min..
04:10:56 <franciscod> i just got one finished one.. which i guarantee anyone will hate.. ;)
04:10:58 * PhrkOnLsh uplaods too
04:11:57 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: what kinda guis can we make? got any idea what GTK and/or QT can implement?
04:12:34 <PhrkOnLsh> What do you mean, exactly?
04:12:47 <PhrkOnLsh> They are pretty (read, VERY) robuse in what you can do with both
04:13:32 <PhrkOnLsh> bah, don't have an acutal photo of this one hehe
04:13:44 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: descripbe it... would be more than ebuf :)
04:14:03 <franciscod> rubust in the sense you can do pretty much what you want?
04:15:09 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: #link http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour%20mockups/layered|boring/
04:15:29 <PhrkOnLsh> you need to start with #link if you want it logged :)
04:15:53 <franciscod> #link http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour%20mockups/layered|boring/
04:16:07 <franciscod> im not sure i want this one logged though ;^)
04:16:23 <PhrkOnLsh> :)
04:17:08 <PhrkOnLsh> konqi isn't rendering these too well
04:17:19 <franciscod> haha..
04:17:40 <franciscod> get the basic idea.. its basically layout that we need to decide on
04:18:11 <franciscod> uhm.. neither is chrome.. ate up some parts..
04:19:09 <PhrkOnLsh> yeah
04:19:35 <PhrkOnLsh> #link rrix.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour/mockups/1/
04:20:04 <PhrkOnLsh> from what i can tell (lol) they look like fairly similar ideas
04:20:34 * PhrkOnLsh wonders if this opens in inkscape better
04:22:14 <PhrkOnLsh> and still waiting... lolll
04:22:32 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: lol..
04:22:38 <PhrkOnLsh> okay
04:22:41 <franciscod> okay.. so we need..
04:22:48 <franciscod> #idea navigation
04:23:16 <franciscod> #idea ability to navigate from any part to any other part
04:23:23 <PhrkOnLsh> I didn't consider buttons in my design
04:23:42 <PhrkOnLsh> franciscod: I think a tree view would lend itself to that nicely
04:23:56 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: i talked to folks here and there.. general opinion is that the thing shd be flashy..
04:24:08 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: but a designer tree.. gimme a min
04:24:09 <PhrkOnLsh> +1
04:24:21 <PhrkOnLsh> see my mockup for example
04:25:17 <PhrkOnLsh> this is a horrible photo, PhrkOnLsh
04:25:22 <franciscod> i was thinking of the same thing.. but with a minute difference..
04:25:42 <franciscod> 1st "slide" is a splash sayig "welcome to fedora, blah blahh"
04:25:45 <PhrkOnLsh> which was that?
04:25:53 <PhrkOnLsh> Oh, that is a good idea, imo :)
04:26:09 <franciscod> the second slide has a help tree,
04:26:27 <franciscod> ie the entire slide is only one stunning looking help tree
04:26:39 <franciscod> click where you want to go
04:26:39 <PhrkOnLsh> hmm
04:26:52 * PhrkOnLsh visualizes
04:27:07 <PhrkOnLsh> grr, gotta wait for tablet notebook to get here :)
04:28:46 <PhrkOnLsh> (btw, the UI mockups are going into an incredibly cool Red Hat notepad I have :) )
04:30:05 <franciscod> :D just dont show 'em to people ;)
04:30:27 <PhrkOnLsh> kay uploading
04:31:25 <PhrkOnLsh> franciscod:
04:31:45 <PhrkOnLsh> #link http://rrix.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour/mockups/2/
04:32:04 <PhrkOnLsh> Is that what you had in mind?
04:34:10 <franciscod> *click*
04:34:33 <franciscod> sort of.. gimme a min.. uploading
04:34:45 <PhrkOnLsh> alrighty :)
04:35:00 <PhrkOnLsh> (we should find a better workflow than this, besides Google Wave :) )
04:35:51 <franciscod> #link http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour%20mockups/slide%20like|%20flashy/treeform.svg
04:36:15 * PhrkOnLsh click
04:36:20 <franciscod> thats the "tree" i was talking about ;)
04:36:47 <PhrkOnLsh> hola mchua
04:37:18 <franciscod> mchua: hello.. :)
04:37:21 <PhrkOnLsh> well, franciscod, that one managed to kill firefox ;) let's try konqi
04:37:39 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: can this sort of stuff be managed?
04:37:42 <PhrkOnLsh> oh, is that a literal tree?
04:37:52 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: oh..wait. ill export it to jpg if you want?
04:37:53 <PhrkOnLsh> (the SVG rendered like crap again, but I think I see it)
04:37:58 <PhrkOnLsh> please do :)
04:38:00 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: yup.. literal tree it is..
04:38:04 <PhrkOnLsh> Very cool!!
04:38:51 <PhrkOnLsh> #idea Welcome to Fedora -> Tree with Fedora Logos or similar as leaves, each leading to content?
04:39:26 <PhrkOnLsh> I like it a lot!
04:39:28 <mchua> hey folks, lemme know if you need anything during your sprint!
04:39:53 <PhrkOnLsh> mchua: any feedback on the mockups so far?
04:39:57 <PhrkOnLsh> I like franciscod's latest idea
04:40:22 <franciscod> #link http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour%20mockups/slide%20like|%20flashy/treeform.png
04:41:00 <franciscod> #idea the nodes can be anything, and change with each release?
04:41:47 <PhrkOnLsh> or even each node could be a different "part" of Fedora
04:42:19 <franciscod> #idea each node would be a different fedora part "icon"
04:42:41 <franciscod> #idea a mouse over would give a mini description
04:42:44 <PhrkOnLsh> One could be General Overview, one could be GNOME Desktop Edition, one could be KDE Desktop Edition, one could be Games, one could be Development, one could be Getting Involved, depending on what packages are installed at boot
04:43:13 <franciscod> yeah.. we'd better ping the marketing list to decide exactly what content this should cover..
04:43:19 <PhrkOnLsh> Each one would have content  in its own seperate package, and the leaves would be generated only if the package existed.
04:43:41 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: nice idea
04:43:58 <PhrkOnLsh> #action we will contact marketing list regarding what parts of Fedora should be represented in Fedora-tour
04:44:36 <franciscod> #action franciscod PhrkOnLsh contact design list to discuss the "nodes"
04:44:45 <PhrkOnLsh> franciscod: I -really- like that tree idea :)
04:45:17 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: breaking data into packages isnt much of a problem.. how are we going to integrate it properly so the doc teams could get into it easily?
04:45:22 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: thank you :D
04:45:58 <PhrkOnLsh> I was thinking we could have /usr/share/fedora-tour, where each subdirectory within would be a different leave/node.
04:46:18 <mchua> each leaf would have a different icon on it so you can tell which leaf is what?
04:46:29 <PhrkOnLsh> /usr/share/fedora-tour/fedora-intro /usr/share/fedora-tour/desktop/ etc
04:46:32 * mchua also notes that accessibility/translateability might be a design concern to take into account
04:46:35 <PhrkOnLsh> mchua: they should, imo, yes.
04:46:54 <PhrkOnLsh> mchua: They could probably be customized via .desktop file as well
04:47:05 <PhrkOnLsh> /usr/share/fedora-tour/fedora-intro.desktop /usr/share/fedora-tour/desktop.desktop etc
04:47:20 <PhrkOnLsh> with translateable strings for each leaf
04:47:36 <mchua> I'm not sure what these different designs would mean in terms of how to make it easily translateable via .po files or otherwise, or what they would mean for screenreaders (for instance - also, audio/video content would ideally be subtitled or have a transcription)
04:47:45 <PhrkOnLsh> but indeed, accessibility :/
04:47:52 <mchua> not that you need to put in all those features at the very beginning, but whatever design you come up with should allow other people to add that feature in later
04:48:25 <franciscod> mchua: the descriptions etc would be general text that shouldnt be a problem..
04:48:37 <PhrkOnLsh> #info need to keep accessibility in mind, easy translations, screenreader usage, etc.
04:49:18 <franciscod> translation would effectively just be conversion of the text to the language..
04:49:39 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: i was thinking of saving the metadata as xmls or some format easily usable by the other teams?
04:50:31 <PhrkOnLsh> I was thinking so as well; maybe use docbook or something that the Docs team is already used to, or wiki markup (though we'd have to write our own parser, or pull in another dep in that case)
04:51:06 <PhrkOnLsh> The content could simply be an GtkWebKit widget pointing at HTML output from Publican
04:51:13 <PhrkOnLsh> or something similar
04:51:26 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: im sure we'll get clearer info on this once we've pinged the marketing team folks
04:51:27 <PhrkOnLsh> but yes, we should use something that is easy for the teams to use
04:51:32 <PhrkOnLsh> indeed
04:51:53 <PhrkOnLsh> Though, I'm kind of wondering if the Marketing team would be the best place to take these questions to
04:52:05 <franciscod> #action PhrkOnLsh franciscod include implementation queries when pinging marketing team
04:52:11 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: doc team too? ;)
04:52:20 <PhrkOnLsh> mchua: thoughts? Should we ping the Marketing team about implementation and/or somewhere eles?
04:52:23 <PhrkOnLsh> else*
04:52:34 <PhrkOnLsh> franciscod: I'm thinking so, and drag the design team into it too
04:52:55 <mchua> +1 to Marketing and Design
04:53:02 <franciscod> #action PhrkOnLsh franciscod ping design team with comments/suggestions for layout
04:53:06 <PhrkOnLsh> cool
04:53:19 <franciscod> #action PhrkOnLsh franciscod ping doc team to clarify backend details
04:53:49 <franciscod> #action PhrkOnLsh franciscod ping marketing team to discuss accessibility etc concerns
04:54:06 <PhrkOnLsh> +1
04:54:17 <PhrkOnLsh> franciscod: have you registered on marketing-list?
04:54:31 <franciscod> yeah, long back.. saw your intro mail :)
04:54:57 <PhrkOnLsh> :-)
04:55:07 <PhrkOnLsh> very awesome, I didn't know that
04:56:09 <PhrkOnLsh> do we want to wrap up the meeting then and head off on our missions? :)
04:56:22 <franciscod> is the layout final then?
04:56:49 <franciscod> or do we need to scratch our heads a little more?
04:57:05 <PhrkOnLsh> I think we should sit on that for a few more days, see if we see any better ideas/problems with this one
04:57:17 <franciscod> okay
04:57:20 <franciscod> #agreed
04:57:33 <franciscod> #action franciscod update wiki
04:57:35 <PhrkOnLsh> another meeting in 3-4 days?
04:57:50 <franciscod> PhrkOnLsh: okay, identica/twitter
04:57:57 <PhrkOnLsh> We'll make some Official Looking mockups and such stuff
04:58:10 <franciscod> #agreed
04:58:24 <PhrkOnLsh> #agreed PhrkOnLsh and franciscod meet up in 3-4 days (schedule via twitter/identi.ca) to finalize mockups
04:58:28 <PhrkOnLsh> #endmeeting