13:59:29 <rdieter> #startmeeting KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-11-24
13:59:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 24 13:59:29 2009 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:44 <rdieter> #chair jreznik
13:59:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: jreznik rdieter
13:59:54 <rdieter> roll call, who's present today ?
14:00:27 * jreznik is here
14:00:28 <mathstuf> here
14:00:36 * mefoster here
14:01:18 * than__ is half present
14:01:43 * ltinkl is present
14:03:45 <rdieter> #topic Shaman 2 for Fedora
14:03:58 <rdieter> Shaman 2 for Fedora? It's plugable package management tool by Dario Freddi, he asks for comments and what we want for Fedora (if we want to ship it, at least as optional package - he's working on PackageKit support right now)
14:04:21 <jreznik> as you know, we are now closely working with dario freddi on policy kit
14:04:22 <rdieter> jreznik:  ?
14:04:35 <jreznik> but he's also involved in Shaman packaga manager
14:04:51 <jreznik> and he'd like to spread this package manager around KDE distros
14:05:02 <ltinkl> what advantages over (k)packagekit does it bring?
14:05:20 <jreznik> so he's asking, what we want, what we'd like to have - so he can implement it
14:05:37 <rnovacek> some screenshots of Shaman here: http://picasaweb.google.com/drf54321/Shaman2#
14:05:39 <jreznik> it could be optional package but from screenshots I like it more over kpackagekit
14:06:32 <jreznik> it has support for plugins, dario is working on pkgkit support now
14:06:57 <mathstuf> i assume it could be a replacement for the kdewin installer then
14:07:02 <rdieter> optional is certainly ok, can evaluate more once we have something concrete to look at/test.
14:07:45 <Kevin_Kofler> mathstuf: That's not OUR problem though. ;-)
14:07:53 <mathstuf> i know
14:08:23 <mathstuf> i just figure that since its pluggable, its cross platform tool which uses packagekit on linux
14:08:23 <rdieter> I recall kde ml discussions on kpackagekit vs shaman awhile back, I vaguely remember the design goals and target audiences are different, so they shouldn't 100% overlap
14:08:39 <jreznik> I'd like to package it, we can evalute it - I'm just gathering ideas
14:08:53 <Kevin_Kofler> What's the target audience for Shaman?
14:08:58 <mathstuf> yeah, i see no issue with optional
14:09:09 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: power users, iirc
14:09:18 <Kevin_Kofler> And will the PackageKit support be first-class or will it always lag behind whatever is the native tool it was written for?
14:09:24 <rdieter> kpackagekit was to be simpler
14:09:35 <jreznik> rdieter: yes, it's more power users targetted, I can't live with kpackagekit
14:09:41 <Kevin_Kofler> If it works out, I guess we should default to Shaman.
14:09:53 <Kevin_Kofler> Our spin is for power users, the newbies use GNOME. ;-)
14:10:17 <Kevin_Kofler> But we'll need to wait and see how well the PackageKit backend will really work.
14:10:33 <jreznik> yes, it's the question of pkgkit support
14:10:39 <Kevin_Kofler> And whether or not it'll get stuck into limitations of the underlying PackageKit (which wasn't designed as a power user tool).
14:11:14 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: then you can go one level lower - to yum backend
14:11:20 <mathstuf> true
14:11:30 <mathstuf> but sort of defeats the purpose of packagekit imo
14:11:31 <Kevin_Kofler> But there's no such thing yet, is there?
14:11:36 <rdieter> #info http://picasaweb.google.com/drf54321/Shaman2#
14:11:41 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: not yet
14:11:53 <Kevin_Kofler> And yes, it'd also bypass PackageKit and make other people in Fedora unhappy.
14:11:55 <rdieter> #action jreznik to work on shaman2 packaging
14:12:15 <mathstuf> jreznik: since its a fact gathering mission, could some transaction model be there?
14:12:25 <mathstuf> yum history is *very* nice
14:12:31 <Kevin_Kofler> I really hope we end up with something comparable with Synaptic in UI niceness.
14:12:44 <mathstuf> even if we have packagekit-fedora to call out yum itself for that part
14:12:44 <Kevin_Kofler> ("niceness" from a power user POV)
14:13:47 <jreznik> mathstuf: transaction model? there's support for transactions but that's all what I know for now
14:13:47 <Kevin_Kofler> I used to use Synaptic on apt-rpm, I really liked it. But at this point, KPackageKit is good enough not to make me want to deal with apt-rpm anymore. Still, I miss some of Synaptic's advanced features.
14:14:12 <Kevin_Kofler> And I don't like PackageKit's. (I don't want to be prompted for a reboot, I KNOW when I need to reboot. :-p )
14:14:18 <mathstuf> jreznik: some way to interface with yum history basically
14:15:04 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, yum history isn't true transactions.
14:15:06 <jreznik> mathstuf: better to talk directly to Dario @ #PolicyKit-KDE
14:15:10 <mathstuf> k
14:15:27 <Kevin_Kofler> For example, if you don't have the old package cached nor find a mirror still carrying it, it can't downgrade.
14:15:36 <Kevin_Kofler> And as yum doesn't cache packages by default... :-/
14:15:49 <mathstuf> i mainly use it to undo installs
14:16:05 <mathstuf> cleaner than dep hunting
14:16:38 <rdieter> cool, move on ?
14:16:54 <mathstuf> sure
14:17:14 <rdieter> #topic soprano/sesame2 status report
14:17:16 <jreznik> yep, I promised dario to do some noise, so move on
14:17:16 <rdieter> mefoster: ?
14:17:36 <rdieter> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fedora-kde/2009-November/004709.html
14:17:36 <mefoster> As I said in my mailing-list post, I now have a version of sesame that builds from source
14:17:45 * rdieter yays
14:18:06 <mefoster> There are a bunch of dependencies still to get in, plus four Fedora packages that need tweaks so they can be used
14:18:37 <mefoster> I haven't put any of the new packages up for review yet because I feel bad that I spammed the review queue a couple of weeks ago with packages that turned out to be mostly unnecessary ...
14:19:08 <mefoster> These ones *are* necessary, and mostly very small, so I will start putting up leaf nodes soon
14:19:18 <mefoster> Dependency graph: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/c/c9/Sesame-Dependencies.pdf
14:19:26 <jreznik> don't worry, just do it ;-)
14:19:34 <rdieter> anything we can do to help  (other than pkg reviews, of course)?
14:19:57 <mefoster> I also looked at the Soprano source and it doesn't look like the required changes are many (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaryEllenFoster/SopranoSesame#Modifications_to_soprano but beware it's slightly wrong)
14:20:16 <mefoster> rdieter: Probably package reviews are the best bet, but if you don't know much about Java it may be difficult
14:21:08 <rdieter> ok, thanks for the update.  looking forward to it.
14:21:29 <mefoster> How can I test soprano with this backend?
14:21:43 <Kevin_Kofler> I can take care of the Soprano CMake hackery.
14:21:46 <mefoster> I may try rebuilding the soprano RPM against this sesame2 package but I don't know what to do next
14:22:10 <mefoster> I can put all of the SRPMs up somewhere if anyone else wants to try building the whole chain ...
14:22:13 <rdieter> mefoster: if the soprano-sesame backend is installed, nepomuk should use it by default (I think)
14:22:29 <mathstuf> until virtuoso?
14:22:38 <rdieter> mathstuf: yeah
14:22:44 <Kevin_Kofler> mathstuf: Yes (but Virtuoso is not set to be the default yet).
14:23:03 <Kevin_Kofler> mefoster: Try enabling Strigi indexing in the Desktop Search (Nepomuk) KCM.
14:23:15 <mefoster> Kevin_Kofler: Thanks, I'll try that out
14:23:25 <rdieter> mefoster: when you're ready to test things, drop by #fedora-kde , and we can try to walk through it
14:23:25 <Kevin_Kofler> It uses Strigi with the Nepomuk backend as a Nepomuk service and it uses Soprano a lot.
14:23:33 <Kevin_Kofler> So if that works, the backend works.
14:23:47 <mefoster> I'll put all of the dependency SRPMs up on the web if anyone else wants to try rebuilding it
14:24:09 <rdieter> mefoster: cool, I'll try to do just that soonish
14:24:50 <mefoster> I'll put them up before I go home today, and I'll also put the first leaf-node packages up for review too
14:25:02 <mefoster> I'll keep updating that Fedora Wiki page with the current status
14:25:59 <rdieter> #action mefoster will submit package reviews soon and keep https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaryEllenFoster/SopranoSesame updated
14:26:31 <rdieter> thanks again
14:26:42 <rdieter> #topic KDE 4.3.3 : in updates-testing, ready for stable updates ?
14:26:50 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes. :-)
14:26:53 <Kevin_Kofler> Next topic? ;-)
14:27:17 <rdieter> topic says it all, looks like the latest batch of stuff got pushed ~7 hrs ago
14:27:36 <rdieter> I think we're in a good place to go stable, anyone else ?
14:27:44 <Kevin_Kofler> I think we should push all the KDE 4.3.3 and sip 4.9.x stuff to stable now.
14:27:54 <Kevin_Kofler> (They need to go out together because of kdebindings.)
14:28:12 <Kevin_Kofler> Extragear stuff too.
14:28:24 <Kevin_Kofler> It has been in testing for a while too and it needs less testing anyway.
14:28:25 <jreznik> +
14:28:29 <jreznik> 1
14:28:32 <rdieter> ltinkl, than__ ?
14:28:46 <ltinkl> +1
14:28:57 <than__> +1
14:29:02 <PhrkOnlsh> +1 on kde 4.3.3
14:29:13 <rdieter> ok, I'll queue it all up later today
14:29:56 <rdieter> #action rdieter will queue kde-4.3.3 bits for stable updates
14:30:09 <rdieter> #topic KDE 4.3.75
14:30:17 <rdieter> mathstuf: floor is yours
14:30:28 <mathstuf> so most of 4.3.75 is built
14:30:41 <mathstuf> only things left are kdebindings which fails to build the generator
14:30:55 <mathstuf> and kdepim which has a .desktop file that fails to validate
14:31:06 <mathstuf> but i don't know what its for; asking upstream
14:31:29 <mathstuf> things that need done:
14:31:40 <mathstuf> kdebase-runtime needs libssh 0.4.0
14:31:46 <rdieter> mathstuf: the .desktop validation we can look at later (can skip the validation for now)
14:31:49 <mathstuf> latest tarball is 0.3.91 upstream
14:31:58 <mathstuf> rawhide has 0.2.0
14:32:08 <mathstuf> its needed for kio_sftp
14:32:18 <Kevin_Kofler> Always the same problems with KDE prereleases requiring newer libraries than released...
14:32:44 <Kevin_Kofler> .whoowns libssh
14:32:45 <zodbot> Kevin_Kofler: jfch2222
14:32:48 <mathstuf> id say that if its not in rawhide by 4.2.85 is released, we should get it packaged anyways
14:32:59 <Kevin_Kofler> .fas jfch2222
14:33:00 <zodbot> Kevin_Kofler: jfch2222 'Jan F. Chadima' <jchadima@redhat.com>
14:33:04 <mathstuf> hopefully the maintainer will update it :)
14:33:32 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, the thing is, we'll also need it updated in F11 and F12 (forget F10, it'll be EOL before KDE 4.4 anyway).
14:33:36 <jreznik> it's colleague, I can ping him
14:33:44 <Kevin_Kofler> And it may be an issue because of sonames.
14:33:50 <mathstuf> yeah
14:34:12 <mathstuf> it got in around february at most (that's when jan got his fas account at least)
14:34:25 <mathstuf> for kdeaccessibility:
14:34:26 <Kevin_Kofler> May need a compat or forward-compat (libssh04) lib.
14:34:41 <mathstuf> it asks for speechd
14:34:51 <mathstuf> which i have been unable to find in rawhide
14:34:52 <rdieter> wrt the news libs than released thing... I'll put my kde release-team hat on, and holler loudly
14:35:09 <mathstuf> and google has been decidedly unhelpful with such generic terms
14:35:17 <mathstuf> need to ask upstream where it is
14:35:30 <mathstuf> kdenetwork:
14:35:38 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: The problem is, KDE doesn't really control the release schedules of those libraries.
14:35:49 <Kevin_Kofler> They can only trust their developers when they say it'll be released any day.
14:35:50 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: kde does control what kde can and does depend on
14:35:55 <mathstuf> krdc-icons...not sure what its for
14:36:01 <Kevin_Kofler> And sometimes they promise things they can't keep.
14:36:06 <mathstuf> instructions for generation are missing in the spec as well
14:36:27 <mathstuf> it also asks for mediastreamer which isn't packaged yet
14:36:45 <rdieter> than__: I vaguely recall the krdc-icons was your doing, yes ?
14:36:55 <jreznik> mathstuf: could you make the list of missing packages on wiki? we can take them later and package
14:37:16 <Kevin_Kofler> Re speechd, could it be this one? http://www.speechio.org/speechd.html
14:37:19 <mathstuf> that's it as far as i can tell so far
14:37:33 <mathstuf> Kevin_Kofler: possible
14:37:44 <mathstuf> I'll look in the FindSpeechd file to see what it wants
14:38:09 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm not sure it's worth supporting.
14:38:23 <Kevin_Kofler> Does it add support for any TTS engines we can't support otherwise?
14:38:44 <mathstuf> not sure
14:38:59 <Kevin_Kofler> Or is it just a "some distros use this, so let's support it" feature?
14:39:12 <rdieter> likely yes.
14:39:55 <rdieter> it's a relatively minor feature, we can tackle that when the time comes (once 4.4 is in rawhide)
14:40:09 <mathstuf> then there are some patches which need some work to be applied or possibly kde-settings can do it now
14:40:35 <mathstuf> the konsole entry on the desktop doesn't apply anymore
14:40:38 <rdieter> reminds me, can probably branch kde-settings for F-12 in fedorahosted now.
14:40:56 <mathstuf> there are, however, plasma_contextmenu_* plugins now
14:40:57 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: Yeah, we probably should.
14:41:06 <rdieter> mathstuf: neat
14:41:26 <mathstuf> so maybe it can just be another package which is pulled in by comps/Requires
14:41:39 <mathstuf> or kde-settings can do some JS magic
14:41:52 <mathstuf> id go the former personally
14:42:10 <mathstuf> the battery plasmoid patch doesn't apply either anymore
14:42:22 <mathstuf> (the one that checks for guidance and kpowersave)
14:42:29 <mathstuf> should this just get dropped?
14:42:36 <mathstuf> both are pretty dead
14:43:30 <rdieter> drop++
14:43:48 <mathstuf> Kevin_Kofler than__ ltinkl jreznik ?
14:44:24 <Kevin_Kofler> Aren't we obsoleting those at RPM level in F11+ anyway?
14:44:39 <ltinkl> drop++
14:44:49 <Kevin_Kofler> (And F10 is basically irrelevant for 4.4.)
14:45:12 <Kevin_Kofler> If we're obsoleting the RPMs, we obviously don't need to check whether they're running. ;-)
14:45:37 <mathstuf> id say so
14:45:38 <jreznik> yep
14:45:52 <Kevin_Kofler> %if 0%{?fedora} > 10
14:45:52 <Kevin_Kofler> # -> powerdevil upgrade path
14:45:52 <Kevin_Kofler> Obsoletes: kpowersave < 0.7.3-10
14:45:52 <Kevin_Kofler> # -> powerdevel upgrade path
14:45:52 <Kevin_Kofler> Obsoletes: guidance-power-manager < 4.3
14:45:53 <Kevin_Kofler> %endif
14:46:00 <Kevin_Kofler> So yes, the patch is no longer needed.
14:46:10 <mathstuf> ok
14:46:11 <Kevin_Kofler> Obsoleted stuff won't be running. ;-)
14:46:24 <mathstuf> 4.4 has plasma-netbook
14:46:31 <mathstuf> do we want a kde-settings-netbook package?
14:46:56 <mathstuf> proper conflicts with kde-settings would probably be needed
14:47:16 <Kevin_Kofler> Do we need it separate?
14:47:23 <rdieter> mathstuf: offhand... *probably*, but I'd say work to split that can come later
14:47:28 <Kevin_Kofler> Don't we just need to ship a plasma-netbook-appletsrc which is distinct from plasma-desktop-appletsrc?
14:47:34 <Kevin_Kofler> It's a separate containment, isn't it?
14:47:37 <mathstuf> yes
14:47:48 <jreznik> mathstuf: wow, it's already there? then we can have KDE netbook spin ;-)
14:47:51 <mathstuf> but how to get plasma-netbook to be default?
14:47:57 <Kevin_Kofler> So I don't see why we'd need separate kde-settings.
14:48:04 <mathstuf> or have people switch manually?
14:48:09 <rdieter> mathstuf: maybe a separate spin
14:48:20 <mathstuf> optimized for USB keys
14:48:31 <mathstuf> since netbooks don't have optical drives anyways
14:48:36 <mathstuf> that's a plan
14:48:39 <jreznik> rdieter: yes, I'm for spin - but that brings question of package splits again
14:48:46 <mathstuf> yeah
14:48:51 <Kevin_Kofler> mathstuf: echo 'Containment=netbook' >/etc/kde/plasmarc or something like that in the spin kickstart.
14:49:05 <mathstuf> marcus hanwell came to speak yesterday
14:49:10 <mathstuf> (kalzium maintainer)
14:49:18 <jreznik> but we can split stuff "wisely" way - depending what we will need on spin
14:49:19 <mathstuf> spoke about the git migration plans a bit
14:49:32 <Kevin_Kofler> /etc/kde is for per-site customizations beyond the distro defaults, so initially seeding it from the spin kickstart with such a per-site decision looks exactly right to me.
14:49:52 <mathstuf> depending on what happens there, splitting may be easier or harder
14:50:02 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: yeah
14:50:06 <mathstuf> probably easier if anything
14:50:16 <mathstuf> since it looks like each module will get its own repo
14:50:19 <rdieter> mathstuf: it'd be a challenge to make it any harder. :)
14:50:36 <mathstuf> yeah
14:50:57 <Kevin_Kofler> Adding packages for policy changes is a quite poor solution, it's part of why the PackageKit fiasco was as bad as it was.
14:51:21 <mathstuf> ok, last thing:
14:51:24 <mathstuf> patches
14:51:44 <mathstuf> id like to go through all the patches we have and drop what we can, upstream things, etc
14:51:51 <Kevin_Kofler> NO.
14:51:57 * SMParrish_mobile damn time change  sorry I'm late
14:51:59 <Kevin_Kofler> The patches are all there for a reason.
14:52:01 <mathstuf> commenting in spec files as well
14:52:10 <mathstuf> Kevin_Kofler: not *all* would get dropped
14:52:12 <Kevin_Kofler> Removing them will break things.
14:52:18 <Kevin_Kofler> Removing ANY of them will break things.
14:52:21 <mathstuf> *what we can*
14:52:24 <Kevin_Kofler> Unless they're already applied, of course. ;-)
14:52:33 <rdieter> mathstuf: +1 , we need to do a better job of documenting and upstreaming (what can be anyway)
14:52:34 <jreznik> :D
14:52:43 <mathstuf> i imagine there are some like the battery plasmoid which have been there
14:52:47 <mathstuf> but have done nothing since F11
14:53:03 <rdieter> SMParrish_mobile: hiya.
14:53:14 <rdieter> ok, when the 4.4-beta stuff starts to land tomorrow'ish... who's going to work on importing ? (mathstuf, for one... I assume) :)
14:53:15 <Kevin_Kofler> Documenting, OK, upstreaming, OK if they let you, removing, only if you can prove it doesn't do anything anymore.
14:53:24 <jreznik> rdieter: yes, both - comments are issue and upstreaming is another
14:53:30 <Kevin_Kofler> Removing just to get closer to upstream, just plain no, it'll regress things.
14:53:37 <mathstuf> i understand that
14:54:06 <mathstuf> parallel_devel for example
14:54:10 <mathstuf> not really upstreamable
14:54:18 <mathstuf> but useful
14:54:21 <mathstuf> not being dropped
14:54:23 <rdieter> mathstuf: occuried to me holidays will hit soon too, will it be a problem for you to get stuff merged into cvs ?
14:54:34 <mathstuf> im here for the break
14:54:37 <rdieter> ok
14:54:51 <mathstuf> to work on stuff so things are done before fudcon
14:55:09 <mathstuf> also because 5 days home 2 weeks before the semester is over is a little dumb
14:55:12 <Kevin_Kofler> IMHO, you should just commit stuff to CVS ASAP.
14:55:17 <mathstuf> yeah
14:55:21 <Kevin_Kofler> CVS is there to work on the packages and have history.
14:55:29 <mathstuf> patch review wouldn't hold up CVS import
14:55:36 <rdieter> good point, anyone object to that ?
14:55:49 <rdieter> to asap'ing the merging ?
14:56:14 <Kevin_Kofler> Though if you aren't going to build everything soon, we should rebuild the stuff for the Qt ABI break first.
14:56:25 <Kevin_Kofler> Right now KDE is completely unusable in Rawhide.
14:56:27 <mathstuf> i was going to do a CVS commit sweep
14:56:29 <Kevin_Kofler> All the apps won't even start.
14:56:32 <mathstuf> then a build sweep
14:56:36 <Kevin_Kofler> (missing symbol)
14:56:44 <Kevin_Kofler> They all need rebuilding, like yesterday.
14:57:07 <Kevin_Kofler> We also need to go through the other packages and rebuild them all.
14:57:16 <rdieter> jreznik, ltinkl, than__ : any objection to getting the newer stuff in right away ?
14:57:20 <Kevin_Kofler> (the other packages on the list, about 50-80 left)
14:57:22 <mathstuf> I'll probably import today or tomorrow
14:57:26 <mathstuf> and build after that
14:57:47 <ltinkl> no objections from me
14:58:22 <mathstuf> so unless all of KDE can go through koji in 48 hours, don't bother fixing 4.3.3 for the qt thing
14:58:31 <Kevin_Kofler> I hope we can sort out that Konsole stuff quickly.
14:58:31 <jreznik> we need it quick or rebuild for qt
14:58:40 <Kevin_Kofler> But it won't prevent us from building things.
14:58:42 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: +1
14:59:12 <rdieter> #action mathstuff to merge 4.3.75 into rawhide asap (tue or wed) to be ready for kde-4.4-beta1
14:59:15 <mathstuf> how about this: I'll get kdelibs and kdepimlibs built to start off the bat
14:59:15 <rdieter> ok, a plan it is
14:59:37 <rdieter> mathstuf: is kdelibs-experimental still around ?
14:59:41 <mathstuf> so that other KDE-depending packages can be started soon
14:59:42 <mathstuf> nope
14:59:45 <mathstuf> its empty
14:59:52 <mathstuf> kdelibs has provides/obsoletes already
14:59:53 <rdieter> ok, so Obsoletes/Provides in kdelibs ?
14:59:57 <rdieter> cool
15:00:02 <mathstuf> hmm
15:00:02 <Kevin_Kofler> I just checked, 47 packages still need rebuilding for Qt.
15:00:03 <mathstuf> reminds me
15:00:09 <mathstuf> i thing devel still needs it
15:00:20 * mathstuf puts on whiteboard
15:00:24 <rdieter> kdelibs-experimental-devel too , yeah.
15:00:25 <Kevin_Kofler> Everything else was either already rebuilt, built against Qt 4.5 or doesn't use Qt at all.
15:01:07 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, everything which used kdelibs-experimental needs a rebuild for the ABI break.
15:01:16 <mathstuf> yeah
15:01:19 <Kevin_Kofler> So if you start by importing only kdelibs, you'll be breaking dependencies.
15:01:23 <Kevin_Kofler> We need to build all at once.
15:01:31 <mathstuf> qt rebuild should just have that as a perk
15:01:32 <Kevin_Kofler> If you think you're not ready for that, we should just do the Qt rebuilds now.
15:01:45 <Kevin_Kofler> And import 4.4 later.
15:01:47 <mathstuf> I'll get kdelibs and kdepimlibs in the next hour or so
15:01:50 <rdieter> a fedora-devel-announce message should be sent about kde-4.4 incoming, any volunteer to send that ?
15:02:35 <Kevin_Kofler> Who's going to submit the rebuilds for the rest of the 47 packages which got built against Qt 4.6 beta?
15:02:35 <mathstuf> oh
15:02:43 <mathstuf> any volunteers for testing cantor?
15:02:46 <SMParrish_mobile> Would that be the typical. Watch your babies email cause kde is hungry
15:03:04 <rdieter> mathstuf: I can test cantor
15:03:06 <mathstuf> need to know if it needs runtime deps in R land
15:03:14 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, it'd be the "KDE in Rawhide is already broken, expect it to become MORE broken for a while until we're done".
15:03:32 <rdieter> SMParrish_mobile: lol
15:03:33 <Kevin_Kofler> (It's broken because most stuff hasn't been rebuilt for the Qt 4.6-pre ABI break.)
15:03:40 <SMParrish_mobile> Lol.  I'll take care of it
15:04:16 <Kevin_Kofler> I take it that nobody else is caring about rebuilding the other stuff for Qt? :-(
15:04:37 <Kevin_Kofler> I guess I'll have to do it.
15:05:22 * rdieter was more worried about the 4.4 stuff landing...
15:05:41 <Kevin_Kofler> Don't you realize that the not-rebuild stuff DOESN'T WORK AT ALL until it's rebuilt???
15:05:51 <Kevin_Kofler> It will fail to start up with a missing symbol error.
15:06:06 <mathstuf> Kevin_Kofler: start with pure qt stuff
15:06:13 <mathstuf> I'll ping when kdepimlibs is ready
15:06:18 <Kevin_Kofler> We should really have patched in that symbol to Qt until done with the rebuilds, then removed it.
15:06:33 <Kevin_Kofler> It wouldn't have been hard and it'd have prevented breaking Rawhide for over a week.
15:06:42 <Kevin_Kofler> We need to be more careful about breaking Rawhide.
15:06:45 <rdieter> or sent an announcement to maintainers so they knew their packages needed rebuilding
15:06:57 <rdieter> so they could fix stuff themselves, but meh
15:07:06 <SMParrish_mobile> With f12 hot of the press I don't think many people are running rawhide
15:07:17 <Kevin_Kofler> There's a lot of talk about preventing Rawhide breakage, we're doing the exact opposite right now.
15:07:19 <rdieter> SMParrish_mobile: that too
15:07:32 <Kevin_Kofler> I'd have yelled louder and sooner, but I was too busy with other stuff for that.
15:07:44 * iarlyy was thinking update to rawhide... after see "broken", no way
15:07:55 <adamw> fwiw i'm following f12 for now to do post-release user support, i suspect other rawhide enthusiasts do the same.
15:08:04 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: it's not like we *want* stuff broke.  we have priorities, that's just been down on the list a bit
15:08:21 <Kevin_Kofler> We could have prevented the breakage with a one-line Qt patch.
15:08:22 <rdieter> atm
15:08:28 <mathstuf> i can't imagine running rawhide before any core stuff rebuilds have gone through
15:08:34 <Kevin_Kofler> But at this point it's not worth it anymore, I'll just run through the rebuild stuff.
15:08:35 <mathstuf> gcc/glibc/openssl changes etc
15:08:37 <rdieter> ok, we're out of time for today anway.
15:08:45 <rdieter> thanks everyone.
15:08:49 <rdieter> #endmeeting