14:08:10 <jreznik> #startmeeting KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-11-03
14:08:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov  3 14:08:10 2009 UTC.  The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:08:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:08:46 <jreznik> who's present today?
14:09:04 <Kevin_Kofler> Present (sorta, still in meeting @university).
14:09:10 <rdieter> here
14:09:36 * rdieter thinks he's on voip, doesn't hear anyone else atm
14:09:49 * than half here
14:09:55 * Kevin_Kofler thinks we should just stick to IRC.
14:09:57 <jreznik> rdieter: twinkle doesn't work for me... 404 not found...
14:10:13 <rdieter> jreznik: meh, can try debugging after meeting I guess
14:10:34 <than> jreznik: please add KDE-4.3.3 state to agenda
14:10:43 * thomasj here
14:10:43 <jreznik> ok, so agenda for todays meeting
14:10:46 <jreznik> #topic agenda
14:10:51 <rdieter> to be clear, I still want irc to be our primary mode of conversing here... I'd assume anyone on voip would be following along on irc too
14:11:36 <jreznik> #chair jreznik rdieter Kevin_Kofler thomasj than
14:11:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler jreznik rdieter than thomasj
14:11:50 <jreznik> rdieter: topic? ;-)
14:12:00 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: What's the point of having both?
14:12:04 <Kevin_Kofler> IRC alone is enough.
14:12:14 * SMParrish sorry I'm late
14:12:16 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: no point, just experimenting for now :)
14:12:33 <rdieter> jreznik: kde-4.3.3 first I guess
14:13:11 <jreznik> rdieter: ok
14:13:11 <than> rdieter: 4.3.3 build state in rawhide?
14:13:16 <jreznik> any other topics?
14:13:41 <jreznik> no, we should start then
14:13:42 <jreznik> #topic KDE-4.3.3 state
14:13:44 * rdieter is lonely on fedora talk, conference room 1
14:14:23 <rdieter> 4.3.3 is imported into devel/ branch, kdebindings doesn't build there thought
14:14:28 <jreznik> rdieter: I'd like to give it a shot but... next time (if any next time :D)
14:14:38 <rdieter> though, likely due to some incompatibility between qt-4.6 + newer PyQt4 stack
14:14:51 <Kevin_Kofler> I'd like to add a small Konsole patch backported from 4.4.
14:15:07 <than> Kevin_Kofler: is it tested?
14:15:23 <rdieter> oh, and kde-l10n build failed mysteriously, not sure what's up with that yet
14:15:39 <thomasj> koji?
14:15:42 <jreznik> rdieter: koji url
14:16:00 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: You forgot to add a SourceN for one of the new languages.
14:16:24 <rdieter> odd, it built locally for me
14:16:34 * thomasj had something starange with koji as well. The %{_iconsdir} isn't working anymore
14:16:35 <rdieter> anyway, http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=139240
14:16:52 <rdieter> thomasj: there is no macro by that name, maybe you meant %_kde4_iconsdir ?
14:16:58 <than> Can't open input file /builddir/build/SOURCES/kde-l10n-hne-4.3.3.tar.bz2: No such file or directory.
14:17:09 <than> it's missing
14:17:09 <thomasj> rdieter, it evaluates locally
14:17:18 <Kevin_Kofler> So it's missing in sources.
14:17:22 <rdieter> ah
14:17:23 <than> yes
14:17:24 <rdieter> yep
14:17:28 <Kevin_Kofler> Of course you won't catch that in a local build.
14:18:03 <Kevin_Kofler> But I think you also forgot to list is as SourceN.
14:18:05 <Kevin_Kofler> Please check.
14:18:31 <rdieter> there were some grumblings on kde-packager list about further webkitkde backports, and retagging, not sure if that's gonna happen or not
14:19:03 <rdieter> nucleo already had to revert a recent webkitkde update due to that
14:19:59 <rdieter> and I can fix kde-l10n after meeting, I think that's all on 4.3.3
14:20:10 <than> i commited new kdenetwork in CVS
14:20:21 <Kevin_Kofler> The Konsole patch I want to backport: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177637
14:20:22 <buggbot> Bug 177637: wishlist, NOR, ---, konsole-devel kde org, RESOLVED FIXED, Not Implemented: Open Folder in Tabs' with SSH bookmarks
14:20:46 <Kevin_Kofler> See also http://www.alphatek.info/2009/11/01/im-giving-kde-4-a-shot-in-fedora-12/
14:20:47 <jreznik> #action rdieter fix kde-l10n sources
14:20:55 <than> Kevin_Kofler: has someone already tested this fix
14:20:55 <jreznik> #info 4.3.3 is imported into devel/ branch, kdebindings doesn't build
14:21:42 <Kevin_Kofler> No idea.
14:22:30 <mathstuf> jreznik: re: kdebindings, my rebuild for the bugfix also failed
14:22:36 <than> someone should to make sure that the fix works before commit it in our CVS
14:22:41 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: try it and we can test it
14:23:01 <mathstuf> im guessing some mix of sip/qt4 isn't working
14:23:27 <jreznik> #chair jreznik rdieter Kevin_Kofler thomasj than mathstuf
14:23:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler jreznik mathstuf rdieter than thomasj
14:23:40 <Kevin_Kofler> I can look at kdebindings tomorrow.
14:24:20 <than> rdieter:  is there any build problem alse in kde-4.3.3?
14:24:28 <Kevin_Kofler> I already figured out the problem for 4.3.2 and told mathstuf about a possible fix.
14:24:37 <rdieter> fwiw, I'm fairly certain it builds ok on f12 (I did an initial test, and it got further than the devel/f13 fail point)
14:24:40 <Kevin_Kofler> Somehow he forgot it, I'll dig up the logs.
14:24:50 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: cool
14:24:56 <rdieter> than: nope, that's it
14:25:31 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: ok, great... anything more for 4.3.3? we can discuss Konsole backport later
14:25:46 <mathstuf> i may have missed it reading backlogs or it just left my thought process; I'll check here too
14:26:21 <jreznik> #action mathstuf Kevin_Kofler try to remember possible fix for kdebindings
14:27:18 <jreznik> could we move? seems like everything for 4.3.3 right now
14:27:34 <rdieter> move on, yeah
14:27:39 <jreznik> #topic Fedora 12 looming soon, remaining issues/blockers?
14:27:44 <mathstuf> Kevin_Kofler: found it, tigcc logs, 25th 2-3am (was probably sleeping here)
14:28:09 <Kevin_Kofler> mathstuf: OK (and you started it on the wrong chan, not me ;-) ).
14:28:19 <mathstuf> yeah
14:28:59 <jreznik> ok, Fedora 12 issues/blockers now
14:29:19 <rdieter> quick show of hands, who's running/testing f12/rawhide ?
14:29:31 * rdieter raises hand
14:29:35 * jreznik is running f12/rawhide
14:29:35 * thomasj hands up
14:29:43 * mathstuf has 3x F12 installs
14:29:58 * SMParrish 
14:30:11 <mathstuf> one straight, one with kde-unstable, and then a GNOME one
14:30:13 <rdieter> I think I'll test the live image a bit after meeting, -beta still had the "install to hd link on desktop lacking execute permission" problem
14:30:13 * jreznik has only 2.5x F12 installs :(
14:30:49 <mathstuf> friend had this issue when installing yesterday
14:30:53 <mathstuf> .bug 529951
14:30:54 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=529951 medium, low, ---, katzj, ASSIGNED, SELinux is preventing the /bin/loadkeys from using potentially mislabeled files (Documents).
14:30:54 <zodbot> mathstuf: Bug 529951 SELinux is preventing the /bin/loadkeys from using potentially mislabeled files (Documents). - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=529951
14:30:56 <buggbot> Bug 529951: medium, low, ---, katzj, ASSIGNED, SELinux is preventing the /bin/loadkeys from using potentially mislabeled files (Documents).
14:31:05 <mathstuf> ahh
14:31:08 <mathstuf> :/
14:31:23 * Kevin_Kofler 's meeting at the university is finally over (half an hour late).
14:31:24 <rdieter> mathstuf: the beta or more recent images?
14:31:31 <mathstuf> beta
14:32:19 <Kevin_Kofler> Oops, the bots are fighting each other.
14:32:52 <mathstuf> jreznik: the 4.3.3 breakage is the same as the 4.3.2 one, so we're at least graced with it being only one issue :)
14:33:03 <mathstuf> Kevin_Kofler: not so much as feeding each other
14:33:16 <mathstuf> at least buggbot output doesn't trigger zodbot...
14:33:24 <Kevin_Kofler> We should add that bug to the F12 blocker list.
14:33:45 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: could you take care of it?
14:33:54 * rdieter roots for zodbot
14:34:23 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: I don't have the new Bugzilla password on this machine right now (darn forced password changes!).
14:34:42 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: +1 (I curses bz the other day too)
14:35:00 <Kevin_Kofler> (IMHO we really need to get them to stop this practice or get Fedora to move to a separate bug tracker. It's just impossible to work that way.)
14:35:32 <Kevin_Kofler> But anyway, can somebody else please make that bug block F12Blocker?
14:35:41 <mathstuf> I'll do it
14:35:45 <thomasj> If we move, then to a faster one ;)
14:36:27 <Kevin_Kofler> Anyway, that's out of scope for KDE SIG, so move on please? :-)
14:36:37 <mathstuf> blocked
14:36:43 <jreznik> so no known issues? great
14:37:07 <jreznik> #topic constantine-kde-theme, aka packaging Mosaico kdm/ksplash theme
14:37:34 <Kevin_Kofler> So the topic should be constantine-kde-theme-extras, to be precise, right?
14:38:01 <jreznik> for mosaico kdm/ksplash theme - in extras we ship latest mosaico, my theme was prepared for the first mosaico - colors does not match
14:38:17 <jreznik> and it would need more tweaking
14:38:38 <rdieter> oh, the colors changed?  boo
14:38:42 <jreznik> I'm not sure it's worth to deal with it... it would definitely need some time
14:38:49 <rdieter> I was hoping it would be just packaging work
14:38:53 <jreznik> rdieter: first mosaico was dark blue
14:39:31 <rdieter> the new one looks dark to me too, but maybe I just can't tell the difference. :)
14:39:45 <Kevin_Kofler> The old one was more purplish.
14:39:50 <Kevin_Kofler> The new one is pure blue.
14:40:14 <jreznik> for example in ksplash rectangles have bad shadows etc...
14:40:17 <jreznik> I can fix it
14:40:30 <rdieter> jreznik: is the content for the old mosaico kdm/ksplash in svn anywhere (other than history)?
14:40:35 <Kevin_Kofler> It shouldn't be too hard to recolor things.
14:40:56 <jreznik> rdieter: I can import it back
14:41:15 <Kevin_Kofler> I think the artwork folks won't like that solution.
14:41:28 <rdieter> ok, I don't think it's worth putting too much time into
14:41:37 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: no, a little recoloring, fixing shaddows...
14:42:28 <jreznik> rdieter: it would be quite a lot work for "nothing" I think
14:43:12 <rdieter> yeah, well, put it into svn somewhere, at least it'll be available if someone wants to work on it.
14:43:32 <jreznik> #agreed we don't want mosaico extras kdm/ksplash theme now, feel free to take it
14:43:43 <jreznik> #action jreznik to import old theme to svn
14:44:14 <jreznik> move on
14:44:17 <jreznik> #topic VOIP meetings
14:45:01 <Kevin_Kofler> I'll see if I can get the recoloring done for Mosaico, but no promises.
14:45:10 <Kevin_Kofler> I agree there's more urgent stuff to do.
14:45:34 <Kevin_Kofler> For VoIP meetings, I think those are just useless.
14:45:43 <than> Kevin_Kofler: +1
14:45:49 <thomasj> +1
14:46:03 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: you will need source SVGs, I'll update it in SVN
14:46:32 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: I don't need sources to turn the hue slider in Krita. ;-)
14:46:37 <jreznik> the problem with VOPI meetings is our open office :(
14:46:59 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: shadows are really bad on lighter background
14:47:09 <rdieter> I suspect there may be a bit of a language barrier for some too, english not being native/first language for some
14:47:18 <thomasj> +100
14:47:34 * thomasj is even worse in speaking english
14:47:51 <rdieter> part of why I think *if* it's going to be used, to do only as a suppliment (to irc'ing or whatever)
14:47:55 <jreznik> rdieter: it's great chance to get better in English but yes, it's much more difficult to join discussion then
14:47:58 <Kevin_Kofler> Language is not going to be a big issue for me, the technical/physical/hardware requirements are going to be the bigger problem.
14:48:27 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: I thought so too, but I found it shockingly simple to setup yesterday (using a logitech usb headset here)
14:48:59 * jreznik has opposite experience with twinkle...
14:49:25 <rdieter> jreznik: if you have time after meeting, let's play with that a bit (I suspect voip isn't enabled in your fas account)
14:49:25 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: 1. I don't have such a headset yet.
14:49:32 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, I had an old one, but my mother uses it now.
14:49:36 <jreznik> rdieter: ok, thx
14:49:54 <Kevin_Kofler> And 2. I can't really talk to folks at the university and to you at the same time. ;-)
14:49:57 <thomasj> I have two little kids here, when they start to yell, you all would have bleeding ears
14:50:00 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: so you mother is more up-to-day to current tech than you :D
14:50:03 <Kevin_Kofler> So we'd need a different meeting time for sure.
14:50:32 <rdieter> For example, when/if we hold some meetings @ FUDCon, might be neat to voip some of that, so outsiders can hear what''s going on
14:50:55 <Kevin_Kofler> The meetings at the university are always going over time, just like ours.
14:50:55 <mathstuf> well, i got UTC backwards and this meeting time is actually an hour earlier and therefore further from my class
14:51:14 <Kevin_Kofler> And they're scheduled to end at 14:00 UTC sharp.
14:51:16 <SMParrish> I tried to call into conference room 1 and just got a busy signal
14:51:42 <jreznik> rdieter: great idea! it would be great setup  conference from there!
14:51:53 <rdieter> SMParrish: weird
14:51:55 <Kevin_Kofler> Plus, the room is used by other stuff at 14:45 UTC, so I had to move out with my laptop.
14:52:03 <jreznik> #idea voip conference call from FUDCon
14:52:08 <rdieter> SMParrish: what's your fas username again?
14:52:18 <SMParrish> tuxbrewr
14:52:55 <rdieter> ok, more playing after meeting.
14:53:01 <mathstuf> in that case, i need new hardware ;)
14:53:16 <mathstuf> though a headset/webcam is probably wanted anyways
14:53:28 <Kevin_Kofler> And I think we shouldn't do a KDE SIG meeting in person.
14:53:32 * jreznik should finish Makneto one day...
14:53:34 <Kevin_Kofler> A lot of us are not going to be at the FUDCon.
14:53:39 * thomasj needs to buy a headset
14:54:17 <Kevin_Kofler> Basically all us Europeans except jreznik (and that's assuming he gets the visa and everything sorted out).
14:54:34 <mathstuf> Kevin_Kofler: the official meeting i agree
14:54:43 <jreznik> we can try VoIP next time, with more people able to connect there... but still I think for regular meetings IRC is better
14:54:57 <mathstuf> but for other discussion, having voip for others to listen would be good
14:55:13 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: visa @ my passport, waiting for flight confirmation from AMEX ;-)
14:55:32 <rdieter> I'd go further, as I've suggested, voip should only be considerred an addon, irc is still primary
14:55:32 <Kevin_Kofler> That assumes you plan the discussions beforehand though.
14:55:45 <rdieter> ie, do both
14:55:51 <Kevin_Kofler> If you do spontaneous discussions, VoIP is not going to work.
14:55:52 <jreznik> but how?
14:55:55 <thomasj> We wouldn't have a backreadable log for the VOIP meeting
14:56:08 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: I think VoIP should not be considered at all.
14:56:11 <PhrkOnLsh> isn't the icecast streaming setup yet on the talk conferences?
14:56:11 <jreznik> I don't have idea how both could work together
14:56:15 <rdieter> meh, maybe so
14:56:20 <Kevin_Kofler> It's a solution looking for a problem.
14:56:33 <Kevin_Kofler> We've been using IRC just fine all this time.
14:56:41 <PhrkOnLsh> I mean; someone can record the icecast stream and put it on the wiki -if- we wanted to do voip
14:56:48 <rdieter> just thought it was too cool not to try and consider, brainstorm for ways to take advantage of it
14:56:50 <jreznik> Makneto was intended as solution - whiteboard with chat and voice/video over XMPP... but I'm out of time to finish it
14:57:06 <rdieter> jreznik: wow
14:57:40 <jreznik> rdieter: http://sourceforge.net/projects/makneto/
14:58:43 <jreznik> maybe with longer winter nights I can hack more on it :)
14:59:09 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't see how that solves the fundamental problems of logging, discussion in noisy rooms etc. either.
14:59:28 <mathstuf> the whiteboard is nice at least
15:00:10 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: at our university they are working on similar system - it can log voice too (voice recognition)
15:00:20 <jreznik> anything more today?
15:00:21 <mathstuf> I've found no decent whiteboards yet that didn't require markers with volatile chemicals
15:00:26 <PhrkOnLsh> jreznik: import skynet? :P
15:00:54 <jreznik> PhrkOnLsh: Skynet development team t-shirt is great
15:01:03 <jreznik> time is over
15:01:16 <PhrkOnLsh> lol
15:01:24 <PhrkOnLsh> well, that was a productive meeting
15:01:30 <PhrkOnLsh> must be becuase I finally showed up ;)
15:01:47 <rjune> LOL
15:01:57 <jreznik> #endmeeting