16:00:39 <jlaska> #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
16:00:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct  5 16:00:39 2009 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:51 <jlaska> #topic Gathering able bodied persons
16:00:53 <adamw> morning
16:01:03 * kparal1 says hi
16:01:11 <adamw> that topic is discriminatory against disabled qa people.
16:01:18 <adamw> i say this only half in jest, because, well, it actually is =)
16:01:54 <kparal1> but only for english people, i myself didn't get that :)
16:02:26 <jlaska> adamw: Well certainly no ill will intended ... of course will adjust in the future
16:02:41 <adamw> interesting where a running joke can get you, hehe
16:02:45 <jlaska> ;)
16:03:07 <jlaska> I thought I was safe not limiting the meeting to gender
16:03:18 <adamw> ah, it's never that easy
16:03:24 <jlaska> indeed
16:03:28 <jlaska> okay, who else do we have
16:03:29 <adamw> aaaaaanyway
16:03:47 <jlaska> I sense the presence of wwoods ... lurking in the shadows
16:04:05 * wwoods rolls a Stealth check
16:04:24 <jlaska> Oxf13 is around too I believe
16:04:30 * Oxf13 
16:05:05 <jlaska> We'll be missing dpravec today
16:05:17 <jlaska> so let's get started
16:05:24 <jlaska> #topic Previous Meeting Follow-up
16:05:30 <jlaska> First ... an apology
16:05:54 <jlaska> there will only be 1 QA meeting right now ... contrary to the dueling agendas posted to the list
16:06:12 * adamw leads his followers to #confederate-fedora-meeting
16:06:26 <jlaska> adamw: take the action items with you please!
16:06:31 <adamw> =)
16:06:50 <jlaska> I didn't have any recorded action items from last weeks meeting
16:06:53 * jlaska looking at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-28/fedora-meeting.2009-09-28-16.00.html
16:07:05 <jlaska> adamw: was there anything not recorded that you wanted to discuss from last week?
16:07:33 <adamw> nothing specific from last week that i can think of, but we could follow up on the discussion of development issues from a couple of weeks ago, now more people are here
16:07:36 <adamw> esp. oxf13
16:07:52 <adamw> Oxf13: you remember that? the talk about anaconda dependencies and rhel changes parachuted into fedora...
16:08:23 <Oxf13> vaguely
16:08:39 <adamw> you mentioned there were meetings at which some of those issues could be raised - gone anywhere with that?
16:09:05 <Oxf13> yeah, we re-affirmed to RHT management that it is too late to make feature changes in F12
16:09:12 <adamw> great
16:09:36 <adamw> was there any pushback?
16:10:02 <Oxf13> not yet
16:10:32 <jlaska> I don't have the full history of this discussion topic ... was this anaconda specific ... or general changes?
16:10:59 <adamw> jlaska: it was a wide-ranging discussion :)
16:11:12 <jlaska> that's my guess based on recent f-d-list threads
16:11:30 <adamw> jlaska: it started with someone (dpravec iirc) raising anaconda team's concerns that things anaconda depended on were being changed in major ways too close to the beta
16:11:46 <Oxf13> eg nfs
16:11:50 <jlaska> gotcha .. yeah a fair concern
16:11:51 <adamw> it broadened out a bit from there into general issues causing undesirable changes in late pre-pre-release phases
16:11:51 <jlaska> lvm
16:12:03 <adamw> yeah that stuff
16:12:04 <Oxf13> right and lvm
16:12:13 <adamw> though the discussion was right before the lvm storm broke iirc
16:12:28 <jlaska> dcantrell has some interesting testing that's maturing ... but could potentially be used to highlight these types of issues in the future
16:13:15 <jlaska> might be worth having a presentation/discussion as his tests mature at FUDCon perhaps
16:13:37 <adamw> roger
16:13:40 <jlaska> certainly won't solve all the worlds problems, but might help give the anaconda team a heads up when things they rely on are changed out from under them
16:14:18 <jlaska> #idea How can the QA team support dcantrell's anaconda A[BP]I checking routines
16:14:26 <jlaska> any other points on this topic?
16:15:07 <jlaska> if so ... we might choose to make this a repeating topic
16:15:22 <adamw> i'd rather not, meetings are long enough as it isw
16:15:32 <adamw> i just wanted to follow up on the discussion, and we couldn't do it last week as jesse wasn't here
16:15:38 <jlaska> roger
16:16:06 <jlaska> alrighty ... next up we've got a quick check-in on the AutoQA front
16:16:12 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA update
16:16:23 <jlaska> wwoods: you've got the floor
16:16:32 <wwoods> let's see
16:17:02 <wwoods> last week I wired up the UI, so members of the 'qa' group can now add/remove test results for the manual tests
16:17:27 <wwoods> (this is for the israwhidebroken mini-frontend)
16:17:34 <jlaska> #link http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/screenshots/irb.png
16:18:03 <wwoods> we decided to defer a) sweet ajax UI junk and b) automating the yum/network tests until later
16:18:31 <wwoods> so here's the current roadmap: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com
16:18:52 <wwoods> basically it comes down to: 1) get links back from israwhidebroken to autotest
16:19:01 <wwoods> and then 2) get it all running in production in public
16:19:36 <jlaska> #action jlaska to catch up with mmcgrath on delivery of autoqa hardware to PHX
16:19:54 <wwoods> yeah there's rumors that our autoqa hardware may be arriving soon?
16:20:04 <jlaska> I got word on Friday that "it's in the mail"
16:20:19 <wwoods> nice
16:20:58 <jlaska> definitely!  I took an action to sync up with infrastructure to figure out what we need to do once the hardware lands
16:21:01 <wwoods> so yeah, getting the backreferences to autotest turns out to be nontrivial but I've been talking with upstream and we'll work something out
16:21:23 <wwoods> after that it's all ready to go into "production"
16:21:38 * jlaska queues the suspense music
16:21:42 <wwoods> for values of "production" roughly equal to "public early beta"
16:22:01 <wwoods> still: woo!
16:22:14 <jlaska> right on ... I second that 'woo'
16:22:26 <wwoods> think that's all from mem
16:22:27 <wwoods> err, me
16:22:34 <jlaska> wwoods: thanks for the update!
16:22:52 <jlaska> kparal1: any updates on the packagediff piece you're investigating?
16:23:20 <kparal1> well, i have started to write a test for comparing old and new rpm package
16:23:32 <kparal1> it will be hopefully part of autqa in the future
16:23:52 <kparal1> the intention is to alert on important changes between packages
16:24:28 <kparal1> currently i'm announcing changed dependencies, changed config files, changed file modes and such stuff
16:24:50 <wwoods> nice!
16:25:00 <kparal1> developing goes slowly because i can't devote it much time but i hope it will be usable soon
16:25:13 <wwoods> adding/removing binaries should definitely be announced as well
16:25:30 <kparal1> yes, that's in the plan: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/53
16:25:41 * wwoods reviews
16:25:49 <kparal1> you can see my code, i have put it online: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/54
16:25:51 <wwoods> pretty sure we talked about all that stuff before so I'm sure it's all here
16:26:07 <kparal1> it's just a first shot and i'm learning python with it, so be mercifull :)
16:26:28 <kparal1> i think that's all from me
16:26:52 <jlaska> kparal1: hah!  you've taken on quite a challenge for first time python (e.g. rpm libs)
16:27:32 <kparal1> also there are some bugs waiting in rpmdiff to be fixed, but the rpmlint project seems a little dead now (trac not working properly, mailing list halted)
16:27:41 <kparal1> but hopefully skvidal will help me with that
16:27:47 * skvidal looks up
16:28:00 <skvidal> kparal1: ah yes - your email from last week
16:28:23 <Oxf13> kparal1: is this working from existing rpmdiff code?
16:28:33 <skvidal> Oxf13: not the rhel rpmdiff
16:28:38 <Oxf13> right
16:28:39 <skvidal> Oxf13: the rpmlint, rpmdiff
16:28:41 <Oxf13> that one is still closed
16:28:44 <kparal1> Oxf13: yes, i'm using the public rpmdiff in my script
16:28:45 <Oxf13> *stab*
16:28:49 <skvidal> Oxf13: and will, afaict, never be opened
16:29:09 <jlaska> in my best ed mcmahon "you sir, are correct sir"
16:29:13 <skvidal> kparal1: I think I should talk to Ville - see if he has any thoughts
16:29:36 <kparal1> Ville is irc nick?
16:29:41 <skvidal> jlaska: you realize how old that makes you sound that 1. you know who ed mcmahon is 2. you know who he would say that to 3. you know the snl bit about that
16:29:50 <skvidal> kparal1: he's almost never on irc - ville skytta
16:29:54 <jlaska> skvidal: ;)
16:29:58 <kparal1> skvidal: ok, thx
16:30:03 <skvidal> kparal1: when he is on irc he's scop
16:31:01 <jlaska> alrighty ... aside from just a quick run through of upcoming QA events ... I wanted to spend some time surveying the group for our Beta readiness
16:31:07 <jlaska> #topic F-12-Beta QA readiness
16:31:24 <jlaska> Oxf13 will be hosting a go/no_go discussion on the beta today during the rel-eng meeting (@ 18:00 UTC)
16:31:54 <jlaska> but I thought we could spend a few minutes here making sure that all the _hot_ issues are on the radar ... and see if anything is stuck in process
16:32:07 <Oxf13> looking pretty no-go at this point
16:32:27 <adamw> yeah, not much movement on bugs over the weekend :/
16:32:30 <jlaska> pulling up the F12Beta blocker bug report ...
16:32:32 <jlaska> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=F12Beta&hide_resolved=1
16:32:33 <Oxf13> still no first boot, nm-gnome crashes, ppc64 netboot missing, and aliveinst failure?
16:32:38 <brunowolff_> mdadm got fixed
16:32:49 <Oxf13> adamw: party my fault.  I didn't look at the tag queue last night, got tied up with family stuff
16:33:07 <jlaska> and the util-linux-ng issue has a build+tag request in I believe
16:33:36 <Oxf13> yeah, some stuff needs testing to clear the tag queue
16:33:49 <adamw> hum
16:34:01 <adamw> important point: that's an entirely different networkmanager crash report from the one we worked on in the meeting
16:34:04 <adamw> it's been tagged as a blocker independently
16:34:09 <adamw> may be a dupe of the other report
16:34:10 <adamw> i will check
16:34:25 <Oxf13> ok
16:35:53 <jlaska> while adamw's looking for that NM issue ... are there any other bugs that aren't represented on the current blocker list that folks are concerned about?
16:37:11 <adamw> that 'invisible icons' bug from the list looks icky
16:37:17 <adamw> though i'm not clear on the exact symptoms
16:38:46 <Oxf13> jlaska: anything come up in the anaconda test day?
16:38:51 <jlaska> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html
16:38:58 * Sir_Limpsalot sneaks inn..
16:39:03 <Oxf13> as far as blocker worthy bugs
16:40:08 <jlaska> Oxf13: a few bugs ... but don't have enough info yet as to whether they are common or exceptions
16:40:25 <adamw> hi there
16:40:34 <jlaska> we have the ongoing pain with yaboot not properly booting after some scenarios (bug#523754)
16:40:35 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=523754 is not accessible.
16:41:12 <jlaska> hmm, that's not the right bz ...  try bug#523754
16:41:29 <jlaska> oh perms on the bz ... odd
16:41:30 <adamw> that's the same number you just said
16:41:35 <jlaska> sure is :)
16:42:02 <jlaska> there's a few like that against Fedora ... specific to ppc ... and I Think they're all related to the same core yaboot issue
16:42:11 <jlaska> this is going off my gut feel from testing, so could be wrong
16:42:22 <jlaska> it's not a new problem though, so I wouldn't raise this is a beta blocker
16:43:41 <jlaska> it looks like the anaconda-devel team has already started working the test day bugs ... I'll see if I can get clumens to help identify and alarming storage issues in the list
16:44:06 <jlaska> #action jlaska - sync-up with clumens to identify any blocking issues from https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00073.html
16:44:22 <jlaska> there were a few RAID related issues, but as brunowolff_ said ... a fix is already tagged for that
16:45:22 <jlaska> adamw: anything else on the invisible icon thread? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html
16:45:58 <jlaska> mclasen called out bug#510249 on this issue
16:46:00 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=510249 medium, low, ---, mclasen, ASSIGNED, Missing panel applets on gnome login; "Glib-GObject-CRITICAL" messages....
16:46:10 <jlaska> which is currently marked as a F12Blocker
16:46:20 <adamw> jlaska: no, i just saw it this morning, haven't looked into it much yet
16:46:53 <jlaska> The live install experience has become pretty annoying ... not sure if other see that as well
16:47:31 <jlaska> in that nautilus windows keep popping up while you're formatting the disks (bug#527091)
16:47:33 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=527091 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, Installer causes a number of popups when creating filesystems
16:47:43 <poelcat> jlaska: should 510249 be a beta blocker?
16:47:53 * poelcat read the bug last night... wasn't sure
16:48:12 <jlaska> poelcat: that's the one from the thread adamw noted
16:48:35 <poelcat> right... it's blocking final, but not beta
16:49:18 <jlaska> claimed fixed for Alpha, then reopened it seems
16:49:41 <jlaska> someone want to take an action on this to follow-up w/ mclasen on this bug?
16:51:08 * poelcat will post to f-desktop-list
16:51:36 <jlaska> #action poelcat to check in on beta blocker status of 510249
16:51:39 <jlaska> poelcat: thx!
16:51:52 <jlaska> there are several other action items we addressed in the Friday bug meeting ... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00046.html
16:52:55 <jlaska> in response to that meeting ... there is a new NM available for testing from dcbw (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-October/msg00154.html)
16:53:01 <jlaska> testing against that would be appreciated!
16:53:59 <jlaska> any other beta concerns not currently on the list?
16:54:33 <Oxf13> I need to get a new fedora-release out there
16:54:38 <Oxf13> forgot to do that
16:54:42 <jlaska> wwoods: I noticed that irb.com still has the Oct 02 images ... I gather rawhide hasn't built since then?
16:55:02 <Oxf13> today has been built, but it is taking a long time to sync
16:55:04 <Oxf13> due to signed rpms
16:55:11 <jlaska> Oxf13: gotcha, thx
16:56:17 <wwoods> jlaska: that'd be my first guess
16:56:47 <jlaska> wwoods: did you or skvidal have any thoughts on that F-11 preupgrade bug that F-12-Beta testers would hit?
16:57:00 <skvidal> jlaska: which one
16:57:04 <wwoods> haven't had time to trace it
16:57:15 <skvidal> jlaska:  there are 2 bugs I've seen
16:57:21 <jlaska> I think it's bug#526208
16:57:22 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=526208 low, low, ---, skvidal, ASSIGNED, preupgrade failed from old release(f10, f11)
16:57:27 <skvidal> 1. is the doesn't-update-display thing that wwoods mentioned
16:57:29 <wwoods> that's the UI-hang bug
16:57:36 <jlaska> wwoods: yeah, that's the one
16:57:43 <skvidal> 2. is the createrepo/yum bug if they are not using latest yum
16:58:15 <skvidal> wwoods: I find 1 odd - I thought it might be a urlgrabber thing but if you can make it happen on pure f11 then not so much
16:58:32 <wwoods> yeah, plain uptodate F11
16:59:22 <jlaska> adamw: should bug#526535 be moved to MODIFIED now?
16:59:23 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=526535 medium, low, ---, dcbw, NEW, [abrt] crash detected in NetworkManager-gnome-1:0.7.996-3.git20090928.fc12
16:59:40 <adamw> jlaska: we're working on the tagging status
17:00:01 <jlaska> for my own clarification ... it can't go into MODIFIED unless it's also tagged?
17:00:03 <adamw> jlaska: i'm not sure when we should use MODIFIED when we're in a freeze situation...
17:00:03 <skvidal> wwoods: I'll make the bizarro bug my main problem today
17:00:10 <adamw> jlaska: i'm not sure either :)
17:00:45 <jlaska> skvidal: wwoods: thanks gents
17:01:26 <jlaska> Oxf13: do you have any take on the tagging and MODIFIED bz state?
17:02:14 <jlaska> I would think we can mark it as MODIFIED if a package is built, but it can't be tested (and therefore CLOSED RAWHIDE) until it's tagged and readily available.  Is that wrong?
17:02:15 <Oxf13> my take is that MODIFIED means something changed, either upstream or locally, but it hasn't been confirmed or built/tagged for rawhide
17:02:26 <Oxf13> just don't /close/ anything unless it gets tagged
17:02:32 <jlaska> agreed
17:03:02 <jlaska> adamw: any objections?
17:03:43 <wwoods> (insert caveats about preupgrade fixes not requiring f12 tags per se here)
17:03:53 <jlaska> wwoods: true, good point
17:04:36 <adamw> jlaska: um. that's probably okay. you can argue it either way, really. just pick an answer and write it down in the lifecycle page :)
17:05:01 <jlaska> adamw: cool, I think we have one then
17:05:20 <jlaska> there's a gap here that leaves ambiguity, but that's not something I'm interested in touching on at the moment
17:05:39 <jlaska> Alrighty ... let's move on to a quick recap of upcoming events
17:05:46 <jlaska> #topic Upcoming QA events
17:06:12 <jlaska> All of the discussion for the last 25 minutes has been around the beta go / no_go meeting coming up in 1 hour
17:06:15 <jlaska> Beta Blocker Bug (go/no go) - Mon 2009-10-05
17:06:29 <jlaska> based on the outcome of that meeting, we may or may not have a ...
17:06:32 <jlaska> * Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting - Wed 2009-10-07
17:06:50 <jlaska> however, either way ... we've got another test day queued up for this thursday
17:06:53 <jlaska> * RAID Test Day - Thu 2009-10-08
17:07:19 <jlaska> If anyone has dmraid hardware, we could use your feedback this thursday
17:07:29 <jlaska> (or any hardware RAID for that matter)
17:08:01 <jlaska> So that's all I have listed for upcoming events ... let's move on to 'open floor'
17:08:10 <jlaska> #topic Open floor - <insert your topic>
17:08:24 <jlaska> Any items folks would like to discuss during the meeting?
17:10:23 <jlaska> quiet ... I'm assuming folks went off for some lunch before the rel-eng meeting then
17:10:37 <Oxf13> something like that
17:11:22 <adamw> i am just aiming not to prolong the meeting :)
17:11:34 <jlaska> alrighty ... let's close it out then
17:11:36 * kparal1 still here, but no issues
17:11:39 <jlaska> please follow-up to the list for any other concerns
17:12:05 <jlaska> thanks for baring with me through the slooooow bug review part of todays meeting :)
17:12:11 <jlaska> #endmeetings
17:12:13 <jlaska> #endmeeting