15:06:54 <rjune__> #startmeeting
15:06:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug 25 15:06:54 2009 UTC.  The chair is rjune__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:06:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:07:02 <rjune__> #chair adamw axrs tk009
15:07:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw axrs rjune__ tk009
15:07:08 <rjune__> #topic roll call
15:07:13 <rjune__> Who's here?
15:07:13 <adamw> hello
15:07:15 * arxs 
15:07:41 * tk009 is here
15:08:21 <rjune__> Just the core guys, eh? and me.
15:08:43 <adamw> no comphappy
15:08:43 <tk009> I don't see any of our new people on right now.
15:08:52 <arxs> more at last week :)
15:09:09 <rjune__> Should be fast then.
15:09:12 <rjune__> #Topic getting the semantics switchover added to qa calendar
15:09:16 <rjune__> adamw: all you
15:09:44 <adamw> ah right
15:09:57 <adamw> so we're not really using the qa calendar right now, if you mean the google one that we had going for a while
15:10:06 <adamw> there's an internal one at rh but that's not much use for this purpose
15:10:10 <rjune__> I don't know. it was an action item form last meeting
15:10:20 <adamw> i was speaking to the general 'you' :)
15:10:38 <arxs> adamw: i was thinking about the one who john use
15:10:53 <adamw> we've been trying to get a decent project-wide calendaring system implemented via the infrastructure group for a while now (more or less since i started at rh), that may be going somewhere
15:10:58 <arxs> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/
15:11:01 <adamw> arxs: eh?
15:11:02 <adamw> oh
15:11:23 <adamw> i seeee
15:11:37 <mcepl> .
15:12:14 <adamw> in that case i'm not sure when we plan to start doing that one for f13, but i can see when we do
15:13:06 <adamw> it would go on the f13 list, not the f12 one. so i'll have to sit on that for a bi.
15:13:08 <adamw> bit
15:13:30 <tk009> are we  talking about when we are switching to the no assign triage method?
15:13:37 <arxs> tk009: yes
15:13:50 <arxs> tk009: the question is how we remeber to do this
15:14:04 <arxs> the idea is to provide this information into a calendar
15:15:30 <tk009> so when might we see this project-wide calendaring  system implemented
15:15:44 <adamw> when we find a good calendaring system that isn't an arse to work with, heh
15:15:47 <adamw> we've been through quite a lot
15:16:04 <adamw> check infrastructure-list archives for topics with 'calend' in them
15:16:52 <mcepl> which reminds me, adamw, whom to ask for switching on echo service on talk.fedoraproject.org ... #fedora-admins?
15:17:06 <adamw> i believe so yes (just -admin, not -admins)
15:18:03 <tk009> so was the plan then to add to qa google calendar or what?
15:18:12 <rjune__> what is the purpose of talk.fedoraproject.org?
15:18:15 <tk009> or ake it ours, I am confused
15:18:24 <tk009> voice communication
15:18:32 <tk009> very handy
15:18:42 <adamw> tk009: no, arxs wanted it added to the sorta static calendar of important events that releng / poelcat take care of
15:18:46 <tk009> wouldn't mind the eetings being done that way
15:18:52 <adamw> which i'm happy to do, once we actually start _making_ one for f13
15:19:14 <rjune__> Let me rephrase. I know what service it provides. why is it there? who uses it?
15:19:14 <adamw> tk009: logging voice meetings is a pain in the rear
15:19:19 <tk009> so
15:19:23 <tk009> more gets done
15:19:31 <tk009> and they can be recorded
15:19:34 <adamw> rjune__: not part of our brief, infrastructure probably has a page with use cases from when it was implemented
15:19:47 <rjune__> adamw: that'll do, thanks
15:20:01 <adamw> tk009: sure, but no-one's going to take the time to transcribe, and in practice you're not going to listen through an hour long recording just to check on one specific point or get an overview
15:20:20 <adamw> i'm a big fan of fedora talk and i wish people would use it more but i don't think meetings are a good use case
15:20:31 <rjune__> and speech to text programs mostly suck
15:20:56 <tk009> we are off track, for another time =)
15:21:06 <adamw> yeah, feel free to throw it on an agenda :)
15:21:30 <adamw> anyhoo, yeah, i will get it on the f13 'development task' calendar once we have one, and/or the project-wide awesomecalendaringsystem if/when we get one
15:22:14 <tk009> now that I know what it is, I like the idea
15:22:22 <tk009> I hope this is sooner than later
15:23:12 <tk009> I am guessing that is all for that one
15:23:25 <adamw> all from me yep
15:23:28 <arxs> next topic please :)
15:23:30 <rjune__> #Topic Update on new version of triageweb
15:23:36 <rjune__> Comphappy was doing this
15:23:39 <adamw> bit tricky with no comphappy :)
15:23:47 <arxs> since comphappy is not here, we have no new news
15:23:59 <tk009> this is where the calendar would help
15:24:01 <arxs> the old one is still down :(
15:24:01 <rjune__> was just an update, his goal is Sept 18.
15:24:09 <rjune__> #Topic Wifi triage started
15:24:14 <tk009> as he said no ready till the 18?
15:24:26 <rjune__> I spent some time poking at the wifi bugs.
15:24:39 <adamw> awesomeness
15:24:41 <adamw> how's it going?
15:24:41 <rjune__> by which I mean any bug with wifi or wireless in the comment.
15:24:50 <mcepl> tk009: plus there are people whose English is not that great to survive a hour long meeting
15:25:07 <adamw> holy topic conflict batman!
15:25:09 <rjune__> Of the ones I've looked at, they seem to have the relevant dmesg, etc. or be old.
15:25:10 <tk009> noted mcepl
15:25:13 <adamw> everyone shut up and let rjune talk :)
15:25:49 <rjune__> It seems that most of the bugs I've found so far have been submitted by #fedora regulars, and so they have an idea what needs to go into there.
15:26:00 <adamw> interesting
15:26:01 <mcepl> sorry
15:26:24 <adamw> do you have many more to look through? or running out of candidates?
15:26:39 <rjune__> I'll continue on it, and talk to linville about some of the specific ones I've found and ask what's missing there, but from my perspective, the next easiest thing would be to have hardware.
15:26:51 <adamw> ok
15:26:53 <rjune__> There's quite a few.
15:27:01 <adamw> my thought would be to keep going on wireless for a while longer
15:27:16 <adamw> then if it really seems triage is mostly superfluous, check a couple of other kernel 'areas'
15:27:21 <rjune__> k'
15:27:31 <adamw> to see if they seem to be in the same boat
15:27:41 <adamw> sound good?
15:27:50 <rjune__> yup
15:27:57 <tk009> there is a new zapper memeber named hdong, he may be interested in kernel triage as well. I told him to get with you rune__ if that is the case.
15:27:58 <rjune__> another week on wifi, then on to other bits.
15:28:03 <arxs> rjune__: one tip, try to search for ath9k, iwlagn and so one
15:28:05 <rjune__> 'k.
15:28:10 <rjune__> arxs: will do.
15:28:20 <rjune__> use specific chipsets instead of generic wifi and wireless
15:28:22 <arxs> some reports in bz dosen't have a wireless in it
15:28:34 <adamw> yeah, searching bugzilla is a fine art :|
15:28:35 <rjune__> I'm done
15:29:08 <adamw> anything else on this topic?
15:29:30 <rjune__> #Topic Creating the agenda and use of the meeting agenda list.
15:29:33 <arxs> nothing from me, only a "thank you" to rjune__ for doing it
15:29:36 <tk009> only to make sure rjune__ saw what I said about the new member
15:29:44 <rjune__> tk009: acked.
15:30:03 <rjune__> tk009: on this, are we switching to just linking to the fedbot logs?
15:30:13 <rjune__> I saw the past couple of meetings were like that.
15:30:22 <adamw> rjune__: linking where?
15:30:23 <tk009> yes, that is what i have been doing
15:30:42 <tk009> why recreate the information now that it is in fedora proper
15:30:44 <arxs> rjune__: me too, but sometimes i add some 'INFO' sections by hand into it
15:30:45 <rjune__> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Meetings
15:30:49 <tk009> that was y thinking anyway
15:30:49 <adamw> ah, right.
15:30:53 <rjune__> ok.
15:30:56 <adamw> i use the meetbot links for fwn too.
15:31:19 <rjune__> My only question about that is how long will fedbot, zodbot, whatever it's called this week hold those longs
15:31:31 <tk009> forever
15:31:33 <rjune__> if they age out in a year, we probably need to know that.
15:31:34 <rjune__> ok
15:31:47 <tk009> they are on fedora proper now
15:31:57 <rjune__> fantastic then.
15:32:00 <arxs> until no space left on device i think
15:32:08 <adamw> until ubuntu eats the world
15:32:12 <rjune__> that's the reason I put it on there.
15:32:16 <tk009> they send a guy to compusa to buy a drive =)
15:32:23 <rjune__> anything else?
15:32:48 <tk009> was that the last topic? #Topic Creating the agenda and use of the meeting agenda list.
15:32:52 <rjune__> #Topic Open Floor - Your topic here.
15:32:57 <rjune__> Open floor
15:32:58 <tk009> whoa brother
15:33:03 <adamw> what we discussed doesn't seem to match the topic title :)
15:33:05 <tk009> we are not done =)
15:33:22 <rjune__> #Topic Creating the agenda and use of the meeting agenda list.
15:33:25 <rjune__> sorry then.
15:33:44 <tk009> the tpoic isnt perfect
15:34:00 <tk009> I didn't get to finish the draft I was working on, maybe today.
15:34:12 <tk009> what I was thinking is..
15:34:30 <tk009> a guide for all aspects of the meeting
15:35:05 <tk009> from agenda creation, meeting administration and docuentation
15:35:20 <tk009> the guide would have what is expected and when
15:35:23 <arxs> sounds like a bunch of work for a SOP
15:35:24 <adamw> sounds like a job for...SOPman!
15:35:30 <tk009> that way anyone could do it if needed
15:35:39 <adamw> i think it's a great idea, now go do it :)
15:36:01 <tk009> its close to done (for review) as I said
15:36:08 <adamw> ah cool
15:36:24 <tk009> one of the things is that we (all of us) need to use the meeting agenda list more
15:36:50 <tk009> I would like to cut out the email we send to each other to confir the agenda
15:37:09 <tk009> we can do that if we use the eeting agenda list like we should
15:37:38 <arxs> tk009: you mean the wiki agenda list page ?
15:37:46 <tk009> maybe that is the best way to keep track so someone has a better suggestion I am listening
15:37:51 <tk009> yes arxs
15:38:05 <tk009> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers:meeting-agenda-list
15:38:41 <arxs> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers:meeting-agenda-list
15:38:44 <tk009> what are anyones thoughts on what I said so far
15:39:09 <rjune__> I'm all for using it
15:39:57 <tk009> we could also place action items there as well so they don't fall of the world
15:39:58 <adamw> i am theoretically a firm supporter
15:40:12 <adamw> in practice i will likely continue to forget about possible agenda items until you poke me at the last minute
15:40:14 <adamw> :P
15:40:21 <tk009> that is fine
15:40:35 <tk009> now you can add the to the announcement of the meeting agenda =P
15:41:09 <tk009> I dont think it will ever be a proble to add stuff
15:41:21 <tk009> it just makes the agenda easier to make fro the one doing it
15:42:06 <tk009> I was also thinking about the time these things should happen like
15:42:16 <tk009> The agenda ideally, is drafted and sent to the fedora-test-list 24 hours before the scheduled meeting
15:43:00 <tk009> and the recap is sent within 6 hours after the meeting
15:43:21 <tk009> general stuff but it lets everyone know what is done and how
15:43:59 <tk009> you can pick at the draft later
15:44:11 <tk009> but if this is the suck of ideas tell me
15:44:11 <arxs> sounds good
15:44:58 <tk009> well that is all I had on that one
15:45:03 <tk009> for now
15:45:24 <adamw> sounds good to me too
15:45:41 <rjune__> ok, sorry tk009. ready to move on now?
15:45:45 <tk009> yes
15:45:47 <tk009> thanks
15:45:50 <rjune__> #Topic Open Floor - Your topic here.
15:46:19 <tk009> #topic get zodbot to make the meeting announcement like other groups have set up.
15:46:31 <tk009> anyone know how to get that done?
15:46:40 <nirik> meeting announcement? of what sort?
15:46:56 <rjune__> so that it announces the meeting to all fedora channels
15:47:01 <tk009> it jsut says group meeting in 10 minutes or the like
15:47:09 <tk009> in the irc channels
15:47:24 <nirik> ah. Yeah, we need to figure out a policy for that... will see about doing so.
15:47:37 <nirik> regular meetings could be anoying to announce.
15:47:45 <tk009> it was jsut a thought I had earlier so I mentioned it
15:48:13 <adamw> i'm not sure it's a great idea. it'd get pretty annoying if every group did it for their meetings
15:48:18 <adamw> so we shouldn't contribute to the pollution :)
15:48:28 <tk009> jsut a thought =)
15:48:42 <tk009> I will cry...alone...later
15:48:48 <rjune__> LOL
15:48:53 <adamw> i do that all the time
15:49:04 <rjune__> adamw: don't you have a shoulder to cry on?
15:49:17 <adamw> yes. yes i do.
15:49:22 <adamw> IT'S IN A JAR!!!111!!
15:49:23 <rjune__> so why cry alone?
15:49:25 <rjune__> LOL
15:50:20 <rjune__> #topic start time
15:50:20 <tk009> well no one else has anything
15:50:23 <rjune__> the kde sig is usually running 5 minutes late or so, Should we shedule our meeting to be 15 minutes later so we have a better defined time?
15:50:32 <rjune__> is annoying to come in and they're running late.
15:50:43 <tk009> I don't think we need to change anything
15:50:50 <tk009> we did the sae to them in the past
15:51:02 <adamw> possibly if we scheduled 15 minutes later, they'd just run 20 minutes longer :)
15:51:09 <rjune__> That is a possibility
15:51:37 <tk009> there is a meeting after ours yes?
15:51:41 <rjune__> dunno
15:51:45 <tk009> I think there is
15:53:04 <rjune__> I won't cry over this later.
15:53:08 <rjune__> alone or otherwise. :-)
15:53:13 <rjune__> anything else?
15:53:16 <adamw> nope
15:53:18 <tk009> I will for you, problem solved
15:53:18 <arxs> no
15:53:30 <rjune__> #endmeeting