20:03:25 <mchua> #startmeeting
20:03:27 * ianweller 
20:03:29 * mchua does the bot thing
20:03:31 * stickster 
20:04:17 <mchua> aw, no dufflebag or rbergeron today?
20:04:23 * mchua pulls up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda
20:04:33 * rbergeron is here
20:04:56 <mchua> rbergeron: oh hey!
20:04:59 <mchua> Awesome.
20:05:00 <rbergeron> :)
20:05:09 * quaid lurks under a slouch hat in the back corner
20:05:22 <mchua> so, status update first: https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/report/3 = we are nicely on track for alpha.
20:06:06 <mchua> there are 3 tickets that haven't been taken yet - https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/18 is the fun one, if you're looking for a good excuse to meet cool people - (actually, they're all fun)
20:06:14 <mchua> but we're looking preeeetty good.
20:06:31 <mchua> k, first order of business: F12 talking points - we'll be freezing the list of talking points at this meeting so we can move forward with News and Docs and start writing them.
20:06:35 <mchua> that would be https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_talking_points
20:06:59 <mchua> Take one last look... any last-minute comments, additions, objections, thoughts?
20:07:46 <stickster> mchua: I made some changes today to reflect feature list alterations
20:07:47 * ianweller think sit looks good
20:07:53 <stickster> Moblin = out, SystemTap = in
20:08:06 * mchua nods
20:09:04 <mchua> ...ok, that wraps up talking points then. List frozen. :)
20:09:12 <mchua> now we need to find people to write them.
20:09:27 * mchua isn't sure whether this is usually done by news or docs or marketing or what combination of the three.
20:09:48 <mchua> any takers for driving talking points and feature profiles for this release?
20:09:54 <spevack> where do we put things like "further developments in Fedora Community" or Project-wide stuff that lands in the F12 release cycle, that we want to use the F12 media blitz to help publicize
20:10:10 <stickster> spevack: I think that could go in "For everyone"
20:10:25 <spevack> 'aight
20:10:30 <stickster> We might want to kick out one or two of the existing bullets there to accommodate something extra
20:10:35 <stickster> Rather than just continuing to grow the list
20:10:50 * stickster is flexible and open to suggestions to make the list as high-impact as possible
20:11:49 <mchua> Hrm.
20:12:05 <spevack> we need to KISS
20:12:13 <stickster> spevack: Right.
20:12:20 <spevack> we could easily start adding "For Fedora Contributors" and other categories, but let's not :)
20:12:28 <skvidal> spevack: that seems inappropriate :)
20:12:40 <mchua> +1. I'm happy with the list we have now, let's take this to list and try to drum up folks to help write.
20:12:41 <spevack> skvidal: i even shaved today, cmon!
20:12:51 <quaid> "For People Who Really Matter (Probably Not You)"
20:12:53 <mchua> and if someone wants to write something that isn't on the list, awesome; we can still publish it on FI.
20:13:23 * mchua wants to make sure rbergeron has time for FI workflow discussion this afternoon.
20:13:27 <stickster> quaid: "If you have to ask..."
20:13:49 * mchua ahems
20:13:52 <mchua> moving on!
20:13:56 <mchua> next: Fedora Insight requirements: what features do we (and other teams) want on FI, and how do they map to modules? A worksprint to fill this information into a big table will happen immediately after the meeting, in #fedora-mktg. (Mel Chua)
20:14:23 <mchua> http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/ is up
20:14:37 <spevack> awesome
20:14:37 <mchua> and rbergeron has been tinkering with workflow
20:14:43 <mchua> rbergeron: you've got the floor - what should we do?
20:15:01 <rbergeron> so... like you said, i've been tinkering around with it a bit
20:15:05 <rbergeron> since late last night basically :)
20:15:30 <rbergeron> and the tools are there, i think, to make groups and such so that specific groups can own specific items.
20:15:53 <rbergeron> now, not being entirely familiar with the whole process... and mchua, i do have that fabulous whiteboard drawing of yours :)
20:16:02 <rbergeron> i may need clarification on some of it.
20:16:07 <mchua> rbergeron: go for it.
20:16:11 * mchua pulls up whiteboard pic url
20:16:21 <mchua> http://mchua.fedorapeople.org/fi-whiteboard.jpg
20:16:23 <mchua> #link http://mchua.fedorapeople.org/fi-whiteboard.jpg
20:16:54 <rbergeron> so I think first off, is that there are a bunch of buckets of types of content, and it's not entirely clear to me who is owning... what.
20:16:56 <rbergeron> from this picture.
20:17:02 <mchua> rbergeron: the whiteboard is basically a strawman, by the way. Don't feel constrained by them.
20:17:04 <mchua> rbergeron: +1
20:17:20 <rbergeron> which would be helpful for assigning group permissions and such.
20:17:48 <rbergeron> also, need to know who is going to be the end-all to actually publish things, who will decide what really should be in the front-page highlighted news items, etc.
20:17:57 <rbergeron> since i'm sure everyone believes that their news is the most important news :)
20:18:03 <rbergeron> someone has to make that call, in the end.
20:18:26 <rbergeron> as far as the workflow itself, i have a question as to... delegation of things.
20:18:43 <rbergeron> will there be some sort of system in place to make sure that people are taking ownership of items?
20:18:43 <stickster> I think the call for what gets front-page highlighted has to come down to a small number of people and not a free-for-all.
20:18:50 <mchua> agreed.
20:19:04 <rbergeron> or that... news that gets written will be definitely be taken by the next group....
20:19:18 <rbergeron> a notification system of some sort, or just a random pinging on an email list, or... what?
20:19:30 <mchua> rbergeron, these are great questions - you're finding fuzziness because the situation hasn't been decided yet
20:19:32 <rbergeron> because a workflow is nice, but if people aren't taking ownership of the items, then it seems like... one is back at square one.
20:19:46 <mchua> rbergeron: +1.
20:20:06 <rbergeron> but, back to where i originally was...i have a tendency to wander... it seems like ther are distinct groups, docs, ambassardors, marketing, etc.
20:20:15 <ianweller> +1. unfortunately i can't take ownership of a thing right now :(
20:20:17 <rbergeron> and it seems like there may be overlap in the types of items published by each group.
20:20:28 <rbergeron> and if not, well, spelling it out would be great.
20:20:40 <rbergeron> and then figuring out the hierarchy of what goes where seems like the next logical step.
20:20:45 <mchua> yup.
20:21:09 <mchua> rbergeron: what ownership/decision-making scheme would you suggest?
20:21:13 <rbergeron> i'd like to tinker around with making some groups, and seeing how permissions work, but it would be awesome to have some more guinea pigs on the system that i can assign permissions to and such.
20:21:23 <mchua> rbergeron: i think to some extent, it's mostly that nobody's stood up and said "well, let's just start by trying it this way."
20:21:38 * mchua will be a guinea pig.
20:21:41 * rbergeron looks at her magic 80ball
20:21:44 <rbergeron> err, 8-ball
20:21:52 <mchua> rbergeron: do you need guinea pigs to be in irc on real time, or just dummy accounts to work with?
20:21:55 <rbergeron> i'm not entirely sure :)
20:22:00 <rbergeron> dummy accounts would be fine.
20:22:16 <mchua> rbergeron: Ok. I'll show you how to make those right after the meeting, if that'd work.
20:22:25 <mchua> rbergeron: you have admin privs, so you can have as many dummy accounts as you want. :)
20:22:30 <rbergeron> indeed
20:22:40 <rbergeron> i wasn't sure if that was going to hose up the system after the discussion last night
20:23:08 <rbergeron> in any case: i'm still tinkering.  posting things seems to work.
20:23:09 <mchua> rbergeron: so long as they're not FAS usernames, it will be ok. So we'll just name them testaccount01, testaccount02, etc.
20:23:23 <quaid> zikulatest01
20:23:27 <rbergeron> the url-auto-generation doesn't seem to be working, but that may just be a switch that needs to be flipped somewhere.
20:23:44 <rbergeron> i've created some content categories that are more...akin to FI, rather than "arts and entertainment" and such
20:24:00 * quaid can help poke with Zikula PHP settings, if it helps
20:24:03 <mchua> quaid: even better
20:24:03 <mchua> rbergeron: Yay!
20:24:03 * mchua takes a look
20:24:24 <mchua> whoa, sweet - folks, look at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/index.php?module=News&func=categorylist
20:24:51 <rbergeron> it's not entirely representative of what you had - but it is a lot better to test with things people can relate to, imho
20:25:29 <rbergeron> but i think there is more tinkering to be done, certainly, and anything you want to do php-wise would probably be wiser than anything i could do in that area :)
20:25:43 <mchua> rbergeron: that's awesome - my whiteboard drawings are a strawman, and can be entirely ignored. ;) your categories are better, methinks.
20:26:03 <mchua> So here's where we stand with the FI deployment timeline: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Schedule
20:26:13 <mchua> in particular, 2009-08-25: final workflow due; software freeze (all needed modules installed, no additional software features added after this date)
20:26:18 <mchua> which is a week from now.
20:26:20 <mchua> which is *fast.*
20:26:32 * rbergeron nods
20:27:22 <rbergeron> so i would suggest that maybe over the next day or two
20:27:32 <rbergeron> we should try and get some feedback (or i should figure out)
20:27:50 <rbergeron> what the distinct groups are that will be publishing (which is fairly easy)
20:28:05 <rbergeron> and what the content buckets are, and who owns them (or what groups overlap there)
20:28:12 <rbergeron> and if there is overlap, who should be doing what first.
20:28:33 <rbergeron> from your whiteboard, it looks like...there is a process desired to be passsing things on to other groups?
20:28:37 <rbergeron> i'm not sure exactly.
20:29:04 <rbergeron> particularly the ambassadors --> public, journalists, events
20:29:13 * mchua nods
20:29:14 <rbergeron> and how that relates to FI itself...
20:29:27 <rbergeron> is that more of a workflow thing, and less of a published material thing?
20:29:51 <rbergeron> ambassadors making sure journalists are getting things, public is being made aware of the website or is getting feeds / daily newsletters with content / whatever
20:30:24 <mchua> rbergeron: Yep. Once we hand it to Ambassadors and the NDN (news distribution network), we can sit back and relax and they'll make sure the content gets delivered.
20:30:49 * stickster is listening
20:31:11 <rbergeron> so ambassadors...are writing articles as well? or more of a delivery method, if you will
20:31:19 <rbergeron> "content"
20:31:22 <rbergeron> i should say
20:31:29 <mchua> rbergeron: when acting as ambassadors, more of a delivery method.
20:31:49 <rbergeron> so some ambassadors are content contributors, others are strictly ambassadors.
20:32:00 <mchua> rbergeron: more like "some people are both ambassadors and content contributors."
20:32:07 <rbergeron> right
20:32:26 <mchua> so, let me toss out an idea here.
20:32:32 <rbergeron> feel free
20:32:36 <mchua> i think what needs to happen is someone needs to wear The Decision Hat on FI workflow between now and next week.
20:32:41 <mchua> decide all the questions that rbergeron brought up.
20:33:12 <mchua> what are the categories, who are the groups, who is accountable for what, what the cycle of publications will be (weekly? every 2nd full moon?)
20:33:31 <rbergeron> imo... constant random publication is great
20:33:34 <rbergeron> keeps people visiting
20:33:39 <rbergeron> rather than once every other week
20:33:42 <mchua> or random cycles. :) that too.
20:33:46 <quaid> is there a minimum?
20:33:50 <mchua> this would be just for the f12 cycle - just 'till end-of-nov/start-of-dec, when we'll have a chance to step back and think about this again - to get something started.
20:33:53 <quaid> (no less than once per day, etc.)
20:34:05 <mchua> quaid: yup, that would be another question to answer this week.
20:34:17 <rbergeron> well, i think there will be content, i'd imagine that could constantly be changing on the page, even if there is no new content
20:34:37 <rbergeron> for example, someone could write something to change a "highlighted article" or featured how-to or something to that effect every day.
20:35:12 <itbegins> rbergeron: There are things for Zikula that can do that for you already
20:35:15 <rbergeron> if people are blogging, or whatever, on the fedora blog site, that content could be pulled into a box so that things are more dynamic.
20:35:20 <mchua> itbegins: hey simon!
20:35:21 <rbergeron> itbegins: i'd imagine so :)
20:35:35 <mchua> my proposal was that I'd like to suggest that rbergeron officially wear The FI Workflow Decision Hat this week, because she's already doing it and doing a damn fine job.
20:35:38 <itbegins> rbergeron: and plenty of other options, if you're looking for further content creation opportunities
20:35:55 <itbegins> mchua: Hi, just thought I'd dash in to catch the end
20:36:13 <rbergeron> in that case: i will make a ... document form of your workflow chart.
20:36:24 <mchua> rbergeron: still gathering feedback and all that, but ultimately, what you say is what we'll go with for f12.
20:36:41 <rbergeron> and it will probably be Really Bad, but at least if it's Really Bad, people will pipe up and tell me just where it went wrong.
20:36:50 <quaid> +1 rbergeron FI Workflow Czar-O-th'-Week
20:37:03 <mchua> rbergeron: that's what I do all the time. seems to work. :)
20:37:13 <quaid> "release early, release often, run"
20:37:42 <rbergeron> i think the other thing to sort of think about on the side of this is how ownership will be taken for these workflow items as they come up
20:37:58 <mchua> rbergeron: that way, if you decide the workflow needs a feature in the software that we haven't put on this zikula instance yet, you can holler to me and itbegins, and we can see if there's a module that can make it so, or find a workaround.
20:38:25 <rbergeron> we can get the workflow in place, but i would think that there will need to be a whipping-boy mechanism behind the scenes, or else people won't be notified that things need to be translated, edited, whatever.
20:38:40 * mchua used to be editor-in-chief of campus newspaper. Can carry large stick and knock on doors if needed.
20:38:45 <rbergeron> lol
20:39:07 * spevack did that too, in high school
20:39:09 * rbergeron edited linuxsymposium papers this year and last. She has a large-sized paddle as well
20:39:27 * mchua pulled an allnighter every single thursday that year in college, knocking on doors....
20:39:39 <stickster> Maybe I know now on whom to call for refereed tracks for FUDCon
20:39:41 <mchua> Excellent, people with large sticks abound.
20:40:02 <mchua> stickster: uh, did I say that? I mean - my identical twin, also named Mel, was the... um...
20:40:07 <rbergeron> Sonar_Gal: I'll go about doing workflow dartboards
20:40:26 <rbergeron> hmmm
20:40:35 <rbergeron> i have no idea how sonar-gal got in there.... but okay
20:40:40 * rbergeron scowls at the keyboard
20:40:50 <mchua> rbergeron: so do you want to wear the hat? :)
20:41:00 <mchua> rbergeron: and what do you need to do it? tools, help, people, support, cheese....
20:41:16 <mchua> ...trebuchets, although I might have trouble shipping that...
20:41:18 <rbergeron> cheese. lots of cheese
20:41:26 <rbergeron> i'll take the hat.
20:42:00 <rbergeron> i will probably need some assistance from itbegins as i dig into it more. mostly, i'm going to just need feedback from people on how they think the natural order of Things should be
20:42:05 <mchua> rbergeron: Awesome.
20:42:20 <itbegins> rbergeron: I'll be around, just ping me
20:42:26 <rbergeron> Sonar_Gal: deadline on the 25th
20:42:33 <rbergeron> what is going on there, jeez
20:42:43 <rbergeron> terminal = fail sometimes
20:42:46 <mchua> rbergeron: I'll be around as well. And you can poke the marketing mailing list repeatedly, and the #fedora-mktg IRC channel has folks on it even when I'm asleep...
20:42:49 <itbegins> When we get a staging instance online I'll also start with performance modifications and the like
20:42:54 <mchua> itbegins: <3!
20:43:17 <itbegins> Unless you want me to do it on the pt machine - but that's something to check with mmcgrath
20:43:17 <rbergeron> i'm assuming the deadline is to have the workflow functioning in the sandbox instance
20:43:36 <quaid> rbergeron: are you typing "So" and then a tab? or perhaps your IRC client is doing tab-completion but with the space bar?
20:43:47 <mchua> #action rbergeron is Workflow Czar: 2009-08-25 functioning workflow in zikula sandbox instance
20:43:48 <rbergeron> so
20:43:50 <rbergeron> hmmm
20:43:56 <rbergeron> so
20:43:59 <rbergeron> nope. not that
20:44:19 <rbergeron> you'd think i could work irc, i spent most of college on it :)
20:44:32 <quaid> blame the client, that's what I do!
20:44:35 <mchua> rbergeron: yup, workflow in sandbox + whatever resources you need to walk us through "here is how you use FI" at this meeting next week, how does that sound?
20:44:47 <rbergeron> sounds good
20:45:01 <mchua> rbergeron: thanks *so much* for taking this on.
20:45:03 <rbergeron> i did hear a rumor that there is a fedora theme out there :)
20:45:07 * mchua rejoices! we're going to have a real workflow!
20:45:23 <mchua> rbergeron: itbegins started a theme, and it sounds like mizmo_ is taking a look at what the design team can do with it
20:45:32 <mchua> it will be awesome and shiny-lookin'
20:45:49 <rbergeron> basically the major help i will need is that if there are any serious sysadmin type tasks that need to be done - like things being installed and such -
20:45:59 <rbergeron> i'm probably not the operator you want there
20:46:16 <mchua> rbergeron: Yup, that's what the folks in #fedora-admin are for, and itbegins, and quaid can help out too.
20:46:21 <rbergeron> so i'll ping ... someone, mchua i'd assume, if things like that need to be done
20:46:26 <mchua> rbergeron: that works too. :)
20:46:49 <rbergeron> i left my sysadmin hat behind many years ago and ... yeah :)
20:46:50 <mchua> rbergeron: though most of the time that means "mchua runs to #fedora-admin and asks people how to do X" ;)
20:46:50 <quaid> rbergeron: can you join #fedora-mktg? we can side-discuss the sysadminery status
20:46:58 <rbergeron> yup yup
20:47:36 <mchua> rbergeron: think you're set for next week? I'll be in #fedora-mktg after the meeting also, and we can set up your zikulatest* accounts
20:47:55 <rbergeron> not entirely yet, but i should be.
20:48:06 <rbergeron> i'm going to have to tinker more, and i'll probably have more questions for itbegins.
20:48:09 <rbergeron> i shouldn't even say probably.
20:48:11 <rbergeron> i will.
20:48:30 <mchua> rbergeron: :) you rock. thanks.
20:48:44 <mchua> I'd like to make sure we hit the other two things on our list for today (they're both quick)
20:48:47 <itbegins> you can ping me for sysadmin style stuff, if I don't know what to do I'll go and hassle my friends in fedora-admin
20:49:05 <mchua> and then if we have time we can talk more about FI (though the convo will probably have migrated to #fedora-mktg by then.)
20:49:11 * mchua looks at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda
20:49:13 <rbergeron> no no, go ahead :)
20:49:24 <mchua> next: "Fedora 12 Alpha Readiness meeting is coming up. Let's. Rock. It. HARD."
20:49:40 <mchua> that is tomorrow.
20:49:55 <mchua> basically, are we on track for http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html ?
20:50:10 <mchua> and the answer is "yes, look at how we're kicking ass on https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/report/3"
20:50:36 <mchua> ...and I wanted to make sure folks had a chance to chime in here and tell me if there's anything else I should say or ask. :)
20:50:42 <spevack> good job, everyone.
20:50:49 <spevack> good leadership, mel :)
20:51:34 * spevack has nothing to add -- Alpha slipped a week, but any other schedule slips don't really change Marketing's world much
20:51:40 <spevack> we just move our schedule the same amount
20:51:45 <mchua> yep.
20:51:54 <mchua> ok, we're ready for the alpha meeting then.
20:52:00 <mchua> I'll holler notes to the list afterwards and all that.
20:52:30 <mchua> last bit of business: Be sure that the Alpha release announcement is ready, on Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement. Probably need to talk with Sparks/quaid.
20:52:48 <mchua> basically, moixs is going to push https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement to the NDN when he gets back tonight
20:52:54 <mchua> and wanted a last sanity check and signoff on it.
20:53:58 <mchua> can anyone spot giant gaping things we ought to fix?
20:54:15 <stickster> mchua: Might want to check version numbers for GNOME and KDE
20:54:32 <stickster> we can't really have GNOME 2.28 in the Alpha if it hasn't been released yet
20:54:39 <stickster> It's probably 2.27.x
20:54:39 * mchua nods
20:54:42 <mchua> #action alpha announcement: check version numbers for gnome and kde
20:54:54 * mchua will hammer on this for a few minutes in #fedora-mktg right after this meeting
20:55:05 <stickster> Also, check dracut status
20:55:43 <mchua> #action alpha announcement: check dracut status
20:55:56 <mchua> stickster: basically, we need to fact-check everything?
20:56:34 * spevack dares us to say that we're shipping GNOME 3.0 :P
20:57:31 <mchua> Ok. Well, I'll do fact-checking after account setup after this meeting.
20:57:42 <mchua> We're almost out of time.
20:57:48 <mchua> Anyone else have anything to bring up?
20:58:28 <spevack> not me
20:58:36 * mchua is a bit sub-par on meeting-running game today, needs to find food soon...
20:58:42 <mchua> okeydoke.
20:58:45 <mchua> ianweller: jetpacks!
20:58:48 <mchua> meeting ending in 5
20:58:50 <mchua> 4...
20:58:51 <stickster> mchua: Sorry -- phone call from SupaWife
20:58:52 <mchua> 3...
20:58:58 * mchua puts on helmet
20:59:00 <stickster> mchua: You've got it, factchecking.
20:59:04 <mchua> stickster: w00t
20:59:08 * stickster backs away and lets countdown commence
20:59:10 <mchua> 2...
20:59:10 * mchua straps on jetpack
20:59:12 <mchua> 1...
20:59:16 <mchua> #endmeeting