15:01:49 <pknirsch> #startmeeting Power management for Fedora
15:02:00 <pknirsch> #topic Last week recap
15:02:12 <pknirsch> As usual, first topic is a quick recap of last week.
15:02:59 <pknirsch> actually it was 2 weeks ago, but nonetheless :)
15:03:40 <pknirsch> - Quick checkup of F12 features
15:03:56 <pknirsch> - Talked about the tuned-adm tool of marcela
15:05:21 <pknirsch> - Mentioned Developer conference in Brno again and the 2 related topics there: Efficient code presentation and code competition
15:05:49 <pknirsch> - Talked about possibility of adding information from there to the overall documentation
15:06:43 <pknirsch> - Decided to invite Ruediger Landmann to our meeting this week to discuss documentation
15:07:10 <pknirsch> - Short update on the hwinfo page for pm, some new info to be added
15:07:54 <pknirsch> - Decided to skip meeting on August 6th as most involved were on vacation then.
15:08:30 <pknirsch> Did i miss anything?
15:09:12 <pknirsch> Alright, seems not. Lets go to the next topic.
15:09:26 <pknirsch> #topic Fedora 12 feature status
15:09:37 <pknirsch> Some updates here to report:
15:10:13 <pknirsch> Marcela finished the tuned-adm, we got the ktune integration done and have added several profiles already for tuned-adm.
15:10:40 <pknirsch> Package was built in time for F12 feature freeze, so everything was done and finished just in time ;)
15:11:31 <pknirsch> There are a few remaining minor issues with ktune and script support and some more testing and fine tuning needs to be done for the profiles, but those should go in in the next few days.
15:12:41 <pknirsch> We've also updated the F12 feature page to only reflect the changes we're doing now, completely with how to test things so we can do a F12 test day in the near future as well.
15:13:12 <pknirsch> Hopefully we'll have QE here next week to talk about that.
15:13:27 <pknirsch> which brings us to the main topic of this weeks meeting:
15:13:39 <pknirsch> #topic Discussion about documentation with Rudy Lenderman
15:13:59 <rudi> Hi :)
15:14:24 <pknirsch> First of all, thanks a lot rudi for joining us here. If i remember correctly you're in a really distant timezone for this meeting time, so my deepest apologies about that.
15:14:32 <rudi> No problem :)
15:14:35 <pknirsch> :)
15:15:39 <pknirsch> Now, i think it would be great if you could start about telling us how the documentation team works. From there on we can then see how we can work together to make it a lot better than it is at the moment for power management.
15:16:58 <rudi> Sure -- well, I'm assigned to document Base OS projects -- my main job is maintaining the Installation Guides for Fedora and RHEL, but Denise identified a couple of other areas that I can help with for RHEL 6
15:17:19 <rudi> One of which is the Power Management Guide
15:17:42 <rudi> What we've got at the moment is the document that Don Domingo put together for RHEL5 -- http://www.redhat.com/docs/wp/performancetuning/powermanagement/index.html
15:17:52 <rudi> What I need to know is:
15:18:09 <rudi> 1. is there anything in there that needs correction/expending/removing
15:18:31 <rudi> 2. What new material can will be useful to users?
15:20:15 <rudi> Basically, I'm here to take whatever notes or other material that you've got hidden away and turn it into something we can show to customers...
15:21:04 <pknirsch> That sounds great!
15:21:32 <pknirsch> So extending/correcting/removing the existing guide is the plan then i assume?
15:22:04 <rudi> Makes sense to start with what we've got -- unless you tell me that everything has changed so much that we really need to start from scratch
15:22:18 <rudi> In which case, the sooner I know that, the better :)
15:22:24 <pknirsch> hehe, yea. :)
15:22:59 <rudi> I guess the other thing I can offer, is that the docs team is trying to work more and more "upstream" in Fedora
15:23:19 <pknirsch> but no, i definitely agree that thats a good plan. I've reviewed the guide a few months ago and it seems it's still valid from what i saw, so it's a good starting point.
15:23:31 <pknirsch> ah yes, thats what i was wondering as well.
15:23:40 <rudi> so if features are appearing first in Fedora, I could create a "Fedora Power Management Guide" for F12 or F13 out of the existing RHEL doc
15:23:43 <pknirsch> how the documentation team works currently with Fedora and upstream
15:23:51 <pknirsch> mhm
15:24:07 <rudi> then by the time RHEL6 appears, the bulk of the work is already done
15:24:33 <rudi> So yeah, I'd be really happy to work that way, since it makes sure that documentation gets done earlier in the cycle :)
15:24:50 <pknirsch> true, yes. and Fedora people would get the advantage to get the documentation early and often ;)
15:25:23 <rudi> Exactly; and localisation can also begin early. It's a real win-win-win :)
15:25:28 <pknirsch> yes :)
15:26:10 <rudi> So, if the RHEL5 guide is basically OK -- what's new that needs to go in?
15:26:10 <pknirsch> from what i remember about the original guide was that it was very focused on a few topics so far, mainly the cpu governor
15:26:38 <pknirsch> there are quite a few topics we could include.
15:27:07 <pknirsch> ranging from the new features we added in F11 and F12 now
15:27:32 <pknirsch> over quite a bit of work that Matthew Garret did
15:27:54 <pknirsch> up to several things that have been in Fedora for quite some time already, like tickless kernel
15:28:59 <rudi> If you or someone else can give me a list of the "several things", I can start researching and writing, then show it you you guys so you can tell me where I'm wrong ;)
15:29:00 <pknirsch> I personally have a presentation here that we did internally for Red Hat for RHEL-6, that might be a good starting point at least in regard to topics
15:29:23 <rudi> Great!
15:29:36 <pknirsch> I also have several notes here about work that i did initially to figure out what you can actually tune in a system that would make a difference.
15:29:54 <pknirsch> Maybe we should also mention the defaults that we're already shipping with
15:30:15 <pknirsch> as we already of course try to conserve power by default without affecting usability and performance of the system
15:31:33 <pknirsch> is there any specific for you need that information in? or are OpenOffice presentations and text files ok?
15:32:00 <rudi> Nope -- I'll take it in whatever form it comes in ;)
15:32:02 <pknirsch> also, i guess the more detail the better, so i might have to add some more remarks to some of the really brief notes that i made :)
15:32:45 <rudi> Sure -- but rough notes early are still useful
15:33:21 <pknirsch> alright, that makes sense, yes. to at least know what will appear later on in detail in the guide
15:33:50 <rudi> Yeah -- I'd like to get a feel for how early I could get this into Fedora
15:34:23 <pknirsch> understandable :) And send all info to you directly i assume?
15:34:33 <rudi> Absolutely
15:34:36 <pknirsch> roger
15:35:28 <rudi> Once I get your notes, I'll create a content specification, that will allow you guys to see what I'm proposing gets added to the Guide -- we can then look for gaps
15:36:08 <pknirsch> great idea. that way we can review it much faster and easier
15:38:46 <rudi> So yeah -- please bombard me with whatever you've got, no matter how rough
15:39:23 <pknirsch> so i'll send you the notes and pointers i have later on (i hope i can do it after the meeting, but have another appointment unfortunately later this evening here, but otherwise latest tomorrow).
15:39:41 <rudi> No problem
15:40:37 <pknirsch> i have also a collection of some external websites with really good information on them, i'll just include them.
15:40:46 <pknirsch> the more the better  ;)
15:41:06 <rudi> Yes please -- just pile it on
15:41:14 <pknirsch> great :)
15:41:39 <skalnik1> pknirsch: you should add the links on SIG
15:41:53 <pknirsch> skalnik1: good idea, yes!
15:42:10 <pknirsch> also we could make pointers from the SIG to the fedora documentation once it's ready
15:42:40 <skalnik1> exactly - SIG should be info container
15:42:55 <marcela> pknirsch: should be the developers tips part of fedora documentation?
15:43:15 <pknirsch> good question marcela. what do you think, rudi?
15:43:18 <marcela> we can add topics from developers conference
15:44:06 <rudi> At the moment, the guide is aimed very much at Users
15:44:41 <skalnik1> and what about another guide for developers
15:44:43 <rudi> But I can look at material for developers and try to work out a place for it
15:44:58 <skalnik1> it would be fine
15:45:02 <marcela> than we can place it at fedora wiki and we'll see
15:45:14 <rudi> I guess it depends on the volume of material
15:45:40 <rudi> Whether it is better suited to a separate book, or maybe an appendix in the User guide
15:46:00 <rudi> Yes -- the Fedora wiki would be a good place to start
15:47:29 <skalnik1> i assume separate book because we should produce/collect tips for developers
15:49:27 <pknirsch> i'm open for any solution here
15:49:47 <pknirsch> and as rudi says if we get enough material it probably makes sense to do a separate developer guide
15:49:59 <rudi> Me too -- I'm pretty pragmatic about how we divide up the content
15:51:13 <rudi> Just so that everybody knows where to send material -- my address is r.landmann@redhat.com
15:54:50 <pknirsch> alright, anything else we should cover here?
15:55:40 <rudi> I think that's it from my end -- just start feeding me.
15:55:59 <rudi> Once I get some material, I'll schedule another appearance at this meeting
15:56:12 <pknirsch> great!
15:56:23 <pknirsch> thanks again for being here today rudi, it's really greatly appreciated.
15:56:39 <rudi> No problem -- glad to get things rolling :)
15:56:45 <pknirsch> yep, me too :)
15:58:29 <pknirsch> alright, i think we have a good plan for the near future, so we'll be sending all the info we have and then schedule another meeting.
15:59:42 <pknirsch> Thanks everyone for coming and talk to you next week. Most likely next week will be a discussion with the QE folks about test days.
16:00:21 <pknirsch> Logs will be available as usual from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/PowerManagement/Meetings
16:00:32 <pknirsch> #endmeeting