16:00:50 <jlaska> #startmeeting
16:00:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul  8 16:00:50 2009 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:04 <jlaska> #meetingtopic Fedora QA meeting
16:01:11 <jlaska> #topic Gathering
16:01:26 <jlaska> Hey folks, it's QA meeting time.
16:01:54 <jlaska> I believe we'll be without adamw today ... and f13 said he may be delayed a bit
16:02:22 <jlaska> dpravec: welcome!
16:02:42 <dpravec> hello :)
16:02:47 <jlaska> just waiting a few more minutes for any other folks to join
16:03:11 <jlaska> Proposed meeting agenda - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00142.html
16:03:28 <jlaska> Notes will land at - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090708
16:04:28 <Oxf13> Jesse here on my phone
16:04:38 <jlaska> Oxf13: Hey there! ... what client you using?
16:04:54 <jlaska> do we have a wwoods?
16:05:09 <Oxf13> some free pos
16:05:23 <jds2001> .leave #fedora-meeting
16:05:26 <Oxf13> I'll likely bounce in out as edge flakes out
16:05:33 <jds2001> .part #fedora-meeting
16:05:51 <jds2001> zodbot will be back :)
16:06:14 * jlaska wonders if beland is around
16:07:20 * Viking-Ice alive..
16:07:30 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: sweet, welcome!
16:08:16 <kparal> hi, i'm here too. i'm new intern in fedora-qa in Brno.
16:08:20 <jlaska> okay, let's get things moving and we can rearrange the agenda as needed until wwoods arrives
16:08:44 <jlaska> kparal: Hi there, thanks for joining!
16:08:56 * wwoods appears
16:09:46 <jlaska> okay, with wwoods I think we have everyone
16:10:15 <jlaska> #topic Previous meeting follow-up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090708#Previous_meeting_follow-up
16:10:21 <jlaska> First up, the sad face for me
16:10:24 <Oxf13> crap. we took too long to gather. I have to head to the coffee shop. back in 30 min or so
16:10:42 <jlaska> Oxf13: okay, apologies for the start-up delay :(
16:10:45 <jlaska> * [jlaska] - update [[QA/Goals]] wiki document
01:45:45 * [jlaska] - update [[QA/Goals]] wiki document
16:11:20 <jlaska> no updates on this front for me ... it's still something I'm interested in drafting.
16:11:34 <jlaska> So folks are probably getting tired of seeing this, but I'd like to keep it for next week
16:12:04 <jlaska> for kparal and dpravec, who might not have seen my dragging feet on this topic ...
16:12:30 <jlaska> the background is we are interested in updating our QA/Goals wiki page to be more relevant and actionable
16:12:37 <jlaska> the current page is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Goals
16:12:52 <jlaska> I've taken an action item to draft some ideas to this page and reach out for review on fedora-test-list
16:13:10 <jlaska> Unfortunately, I don't have any updates [again] this week
16:13:18 <rjune> Have you sent that to the test list? or did I miss it?
16:13:42 <jlaska> rjune: the original Goals wiki was drafted by adamw  and posted for review back in March (or April) I think
16:14:20 <jlaska> adamw and I have been discussing several different approaches to revamping this page, I just need to get those ideas on 'paper'
16:14:45 <rjune> ok, so it was before I got back into fedora
16:14:56 <jlaska> possibly
16:15:05 <rjune> that's been the last month or so.
16:16:04 <jlaska> okay, unless any additional thoughts about last week ... let's dive into the agenda ...
16:16:42 <jlaska> #topic ''Fit n Finish'' Display Configuration Test Day Recap
16:16:48 <jlaska> mclasen: are you around?
16:16:56 <mclasen> I am
16:17:01 <jlaska> sweet!
16:17:17 <jlaska> if you have a moment, was hoping you might give a brief recap of the Display config test day
16:17:30 <jlaska> sort of a what worked, what didn't ... what wouldw you improve on for future test days?
16:17:37 <mclasen> I don't have too much to say about it...
16:17:46 * jlaska gathers some links
16:17:50 <mclasen> there was a bit of participation in the irc  channel throughout the day
16:17:57 <mclasen> not too much though
16:18:02 <jlaska> Wiki page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-07_Fit_and_Finish:Display_Configuration
16:18:16 <mclasen> mostly it was me and to some extent adam testing stuff and filing bugs
16:18:24 <mclasen> and working on some fixes
16:18:39 <jlaska> adam == ajax?
16:18:44 <mclasen> yeah
16:19:17 <jlaska> from the looks of the wiki you've nailed quite a bit of fit'n'finish issues
16:19:26 <mclasen> we probably did not do enough advertisement for wider participation
16:19:31 <jlaska> I would have loved to see more non-desktop devel names besides those issues
16:19:34 <Viking-Ice> mclasen: Noticed that you never included what to include on the report...
16:19:35 <mclasen> but rawhide is also still pretty raw at this point
16:20:07 <Viking-Ice> I think it should be set as a mandatory issue for test days..
16:20:29 <mclasen> Viking-Ice: there is no clear recipe here
16:20:45 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: mandatory might be a bit strong, but I agree it would be tremendously helpful for contributors
16:20:45 <mclasen> one thing I noticed halfway through the test day
16:20:46 <Viking-Ice> is that field lacking from the Test day template
16:20:55 <mclasen> is that we collected a ton of 'issues'
16:20:59 <mclasen> but no positives
16:21:19 <jlaska> mclasen: from a test perspective ... collecting the issues is a positive :)
16:21:31 <jlaska> were you hoping for more fixing of the problems yesterday as well?
16:21:52 <mclasen> with almost all of the desktop team unavailable, no
16:22:24 <Viking-Ice> mclasen: looking at the reporting bugs was this just cosmetic comments that were wanted for the test day ?
16:22:46 <mclasen> not sure I understand the question
16:23:02 <jlaska> mclasen: I was pretty jazzed about the test cases created ... I think we can solicit more testing throughout the week here if there are areas you think weren't touched on enough by your team
16:23:39 <mclasen> one problem I noticed with the test day template
16:23:40 <mclasen> or rather its naming
16:23:55 <Viking-Ice> mclasen: like the font in the users-witch applet is bolder and out of contest with the rest of the Gnome's top panel etc..
16:23:56 <mclasen> is that I can't prepare the test day page before I know the schedule
16:24:04 <mclasen> since the date is part of the name...
16:24:13 <Viking-Ice> instead of my app crashed
16:24:19 <Viking-Ice> reports
16:25:02 <jlaska> mclasen: yeah ... I don't think it's a hard and fast rule about having the date in the subject
16:25:09 <jlaska> perhaps we can loosen that restriction in the SOP
16:25:25 <mclasen> Viking-Ice: what I was hoping for is reports like: "I was trying to do give a presentation, so I followed these obvious steps...then this and that unexpected problem occurred"
16:25:54 <mclasen> a crash is an obvious bug to file, not really something you need a test day for...
16:26:32 <mclasen> so, I think we are going to try another fit and finish test day in 2 weeks the earliest
16:26:54 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: I've got a bit on the agenda about the debugging pages, perhaps that's a good point to review your thoughts on the fit'n'finish bug reports
16:27:05 <mclasen> I haven't figured out the next topic yet...
16:27:12 <jlaska> mclasen: that's a good spacing between them ... having the same group do them *every* week is tough to manage
16:27:29 <jlaska> mclasen: just a heads up, we do have a NetworkManager event scheduled for August for the main test day track
16:27:38 <jlaska> perhaps that woudl be good to couple with a fit'n'finish event nearby?
16:27:50 * jlaska looks at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_12_test_days
16:28:42 <jlaska> dpravec: I know you've expressed an interest in desktop testing ... these fit'n'finish test days would be a great way to get a feel for the landscape
16:28:56 <jlaska> okay, mclasen to summarize ...
16:28:57 <mclasen> could be
16:28:58 <dpravec> yes, i will sure join
16:29:14 <jlaska> * Loosen the date restriction on the test day wiki name
01:45:45 * Loosen the date restriction on the test day wiki name
16:29:24 <jlaska> * need more advertising for fit'n'finish days
01:45:45 * need more advertising for fit'n'finish days
16:29:41 * jlaska guilty of digging out from email most of yesterday :(
16:30:09 <jlaska> mclasen: are there any areas from yesterdays test day that could use more attention from testers throughout the week, who might have had a conflict?
16:30:49 <mclasen> I went through all the use cases we had outlined yesterday
16:31:09 <mclasen> but doing the same with other hardware might of course yield different results...
16:31:21 <jlaska> Viking-Ice raises a good point about perhaps lining up some guidelines for filing bugs on test days ... I don't know if we can make that a requirement, but perhaps something to visit
16:31:25 <jlaska> mclasen: okay
16:31:43 <mclasen> jlaska: one thing that may be useful wrt to bug filing
16:31:54 <mclasen> is to mention the test case in the bug
16:32:14 <mclasen> as I said earlier "I was trying to do ..." <- could basically be a reference to a testcase
16:32:47 <jlaska> right on
16:33:01 <jlaska> yeah, several of us would do that frequently while testing the installation matrix
16:33:25 <dpravec> google is releasing neatx (python based nx server) -- which might be interesting for remote desktop problem solving/testing...  http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/07/releasing-neatx-open-source-nx-servier.html
16:33:30 <jlaska> I don't know if the installer guys found it helpful, but I know that several weeks later, when I needed to retest the bug ... it was good to know what the _heck_ I was trying to test
16:35:10 <jlaska> dpravec: sounds like you might be much closer to neatx, I'm not very familiar with how that could be used.  Definitely open to the idea if that helps solve problems
16:35:15 <jlaska> anyone else know much about that?
16:35:41 <dpravec> neatx is new, there is freenx nx server already in fedora, but its 'hacky' :)
16:36:31 <dpravec> it is 'vnc on steroids' -- much faster, useable remote desktop
16:36:55 <dpravec> (but the nx technology is  based on fork of older xorg, which is problem)
16:37:06 <jlaska> interesting, perhaps a howto/blog is in order to to introduce the topic and how it can help testers?
16:37:16 <jlaska> hrmm, yeah I suspect that would be problematic
16:37:32 <dpravec> debian guys refused to package it...
16:37:34 <dpravec> thanks to this
16:37:45 <dpravec> (possible security problems)
16:37:52 <dpravec> which are hard to fix
16:38:06 <jlaska> okay, well we can come back to this outside the meeting
16:38:12 <dpravec> ok..
16:38:29 <jlaska> sounds like there might be something there, but potential packaging issues lurk
16:38:49 <jlaska> mclasen: any other thoughts/concerns around yesterdays test day, or should we let you go for now?
16:38:58 <dpravec> it is already in fedora...
16:39:18 <jlaska> dpravec: oh my mistake
16:39:41 <mclasen> jlaska: no immediate thoughts; I'll try to send a summary to the list later, and I'll keep f-test-list in the loop for the next test days...
16:39:53 <dpravec> i might write some wiki page about it
16:39:56 <jlaska> thank you
16:40:01 <jlaska> dpravec: that's a great start!
16:40:10 <jlaska> okay ... next up ...
16:40:14 <jlaska> #topic AutoQA - update from wwoods
16:40:24 <jlaska> wwoods: you've got the floor
16:40:51 <wwoods> okay! So there's the test plan: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan
16:40:59 <wwoods> there's 4 cases remaining to write
16:41:00 * jlaska still in love with the plan
16:41:19 <wwoods> https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&summary=~Create+test+case&milestone=israwhidebroken.com&order=priority
16:41:43 <wwoods> the first two - Core package {existence,closure} - require the Critical Path package list/depsolving tool
16:42:12 * mclasen thinks that any rawhide vetting plan needs to be measured against the latest prelink disaster...
16:42:16 <wwoods> last week skvidal wrote a tool to depsolve out a list of packages/groups: http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/resolve_out_deps.py
16:42:32 <wwoods> mclasen: no
16:42:42 <wwoods> yes, there should be a test plan that checks things like that
16:42:46 <wwoods> but no, this is not that test plan
16:42:55 * jlaska makes a mental note - prelink disaster
16:43:30 <wwoods> writing (and automating) this test plan will show us a clear path to writing (and automating) a test plan that would cover the prelink disaster
16:43:48 <wwoods> walk before we run, etc.
16:44:28 <f13> Hey I'm back
16:44:35 * jlaska tips hat to f13
16:44:37 <wwoods> getting back to *this* plan - I created two groups in f12 comps (critical-path-base and critical-path-gnome)
16:45:21 <wwoods> combining those two groups and @core should cover every use case listed in the critical path proposal: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Critical_Path_Packages_Proposal
16:45:41 <wwoods> (they don't seem to have appeared in rawhide comps yet, but they're checked into CVS, so it's only a matter of time)
16:45:45 * jlaska has 1 stone and looking for 2 birds
16:46:29 <wwoods> anyway, working with the assumption that we'll use those three package groups and a soon-to-be-completed tool to depsolve / check the packages required by those groups
16:46:45 <wwoods> I'm writing the Core package {existence,closure} test cases today
16:47:02 <wwoods> and RSN I'll write up the final two basic functional tests - network and yum
16:47:11 <Viking-Ice> for the record I think we should create critical-path do all the *DE's or none..
16:47:31 <Viking-Ice> and by do I mean to..
16:47:43 <wwoods> Viking-Ice: that's great. Feel free to create a critical-path-*DE group in comps that fills the use cases described in the proposal
16:47:46 <wwoods> with packages from your DE
16:47:57 <wwoods> the stuff in @core and @critical-path-base should apply to all DEs
16:48:01 <jlaska> that's actually a really cool way to extend this
16:48:17 <jlaska> wwoods: I believe there is a link already for how to recommend + review comps changes right?
16:48:19 <wwoods> but given that a) the critical path proposal requires a login manager, and b) gdm is the default login manager
16:48:28 <wwoods> I created a package group that includes gdm and its deps
16:48:51 <wwoods> setting up a group for DEs that don't use GDM is an exercise for the relevant SIGs
16:49:12 <f13> so is testing those paths
16:49:17 <jlaska> right on
16:49:29 <wwoods> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/CompsXml is general info about editing comps
16:49:30 <f13> QA/releng signing up to do "the" critical path is a big big task on its own.
16:49:53 <jlaska> but if I understand correctly, the current proposed solution leaves the door open to contributor assistance in those areas
16:49:56 <wwoods> for the record - current expansion of the current Critical Path definitions are here: http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/deplist.txt
16:50:04 <wwoods> it works out to 500 packages
16:50:12 <wwoods> or roughly... 5% of the distro?
16:50:16 <wwoods> which sounds about right
16:50:17 * mclasen wonders how such 'technical' comps groups will interfere with comps groups visibility in the ui
16:50:22 <f13> 500 of 7000
16:50:29 <wwoods> f13: binary packages
16:50:30 <wwoods> not source.
16:50:41 <wwoods> mclasen: they're set as non-visible
16:50:42 <f13> mclasen: we can mark them as not visible in comps
16:50:47 <f13> or did mark them.
16:50:49 <mclasen> oh, didn't know that
16:51:05 <wwoods> <uservisible>false</uservisible>
16:51:19 <wwoods> also <default>false</default>
16:51:20 <jlaska> without that, it would make for an unpleasant group screen in the installer
16:51:21 <wwoods> so they don't get installed
16:51:46 <jlaska> a handy link for those interested in learning more about contributing to comps - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/CompsXml
16:51:56 <wwoods> see http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/comps-f12.xml.in?view=markup
16:52:44 <wwoods> (search for critical-path)
16:52:49 <jlaska> wwoods: what's on the plan for this week, are there areas you'd like review or engagement by f-test-list ?
16:53:17 <wwoods> plan for this week: finish writing tests, ask for review from f-t-l
16:53:37 <wwoods> and probably send out an informational message about the critical path deplist to f-d-l
16:54:09 <wwoods> hopefully I'll also have time to start trying to automate one of the simpler test cases in autotest
16:54:18 <jlaska> sweet!
16:54:35 <jlaska> speaking of autotest, f13 and I spoke earlier about some next steps identified by mmcgrath for hosting in infrastructure
16:54:40 <wwoods> so, fingers crossed, next week we may have at least some screenshots of green/red boxes
16:54:43 <jlaska> I've added some action items to the end of https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/9
16:54:49 <wwoods> everyone loves green boxes, right?
16:55:01 <jlaska> the red boxes don't I think
16:55:04 <jlaska> be we don't like them :)
16:55:24 <jds2001> .wub 34
16:55:56 <wwoods> wub!
16:56:06 * wwoods doesn't know what's going on there
16:56:10 <wwoods> anyway, that's the AutoQA update
16:56:28 <jlaska> wwoods: sweet, sounds like good measured progress on the test case front
16:56:46 <jlaska> I know how tough those are to slog (word?) through, but the plan + cases are looking really solid
16:57:38 <jlaska> okay, unless any other questions, changing topics shortly ...
16:57:44 <jlaska> #topic Debugging pages ... what's next?
16:58:15 <jlaska> I don't know if beland is around, but he provided some data on f-test-list recently on some components to target as candidates for future Debugging pages
16:58:24 <jlaska> link - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00723.html
16:58:45 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: I figured this would be near and dear to you since much of this spawned from your proposal
16:59:38 <jlaska> I didn't see notes for a BugZapper meeting this week, so I wanted to briefly discuss it here
17:00:08 <Viking-Ice> Well yes added Dracut has been added to the category ( https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dracut/Debugging ) and btw I would like people to refrane from using the {{command| }} <code> and {{filename}} in the wiki all this does is adding some gray smug that's not visible in all screens rather just bold it..
17:00:45 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: yeah I loved the Dracut page you drafted and posted for review on the list, really nice work there
17:01:11 <jlaska> it would be nice, if we knew now what all of our test day topics would be ... we could target Debugging guides for each topic
17:01:12 <Viking-Ice> mclasen: Example for the test day's on how to report the "All bug report"
17:01:19 <jlaska> unfortunately we don't have that yet
17:01:23 <Viking-Ice> on the dracut's debugging page. .
17:02:11 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: did you consult with the dracut team when drafting that page, or is this what you discovered while testing?
17:02:31 <Viking-Ice> I talked to Harald on irc..
17:02:36 <Viking-Ice> mainly
17:02:38 <jlaska> nice!
17:03:03 <jlaska> I think you just demonstrated how QA can add value here ... in drafting and proposing these pages for review
17:03:39 <jlaska> I know the maintainers are very busy making this stuff work ... and often it's hard to juggle all the wiki docs needed
17:04:17 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: do you have any suggestions on how best to go about building pages for the remaining components beland identified?
17:04:41 <Viking-Ice> Wall all the the info I needed from harald ( and the only thing he provided me with ) was what they wanted on the report..
17:05:14 <Viking-Ice> In similar fashion to the Dracut's one
17:05:47 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: do you think it's worth filing fedora-qa tickets for these items, and asking for volunteers?
17:06:00 * jlaska would like to ... but worry it might be *too* much
17:06:24 <Viking-Ice> ?
17:06:53 <dpravec> jlaska: imho fill them, but not every day...
17:07:46 <dpravec> i mean, do not repeat...
17:07:56 <Viking-Ice> From what looks to be here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Debugging I need to (re)write some of this stuff since i want more ( debugging ) info provided
17:08:18 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: are you comfortable using tickets to trac  this stuff?
17:08:32 <jlaska> or do folks consider it too much tracking?
17:09:13 <Viking-Ice> does and change matter talking about the trac system I dont get mails when ticket get filed I think..
17:09:23 <Viking-Ice> and by and I mean not
17:09:33 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: I belive you need to set that up in the admin page, I can look at that for you
17:10:36 <jlaska> and I don't think we have default owners for the current wiki component, I'd need to dbl check
17:10:49 <Viking-Ice> Yes that was an interesting process how infra handled that I requested the trac system for QA you pushed after it and wwoods got notified and made admin..
17:11:13 <Viking-Ice> that the trac was ready
17:11:26 <jlaska> #action jlaska - update fedora-qa privs so that viking_ice is on the default bcc
17:11:53 <jlaska> okay, unless folks shout ... I think I'll file some tickets to record what debugging pages we should tackle based on the data beland provided
17:12:09 <jlaska> and then beg for volunteers on the list
17:12:22 <Viking-Ice> ok
17:12:45 <jlaska> #action - jlaska files a bunch of wiki requests for content for debugging pages ... email list after
17:12:48 <Viking-Ice> I'll review fill in if needed and add some info for components
17:12:59 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: that'd be great, thank you
17:13:16 <jlaska> #topic Open discussion - <your topic here>
17:13:23 <jlaska> okay, open floor time
17:13:46 <jlaska> any topics/concerns or issues that need debate?
17:13:53 <jlaska> or favorite jokes?
17:14:03 <f13> TCMS?
17:14:20 <Viking-Ice> Three men walk into a bar and a working girl shows up..
17:14:33 <dpravec> :)
17:14:45 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: okay, let's keep it clean! :D
17:14:50 <rjune> oh, I know how this one ends, I have the DVD
17:15:01 <dpravec> i thought its all...
17:15:03 <dpravec> :)
17:15:11 <rjune> jlaska: can you post the pgae you were working on with adam? I'm curious to see it.
17:15:22 <jlaska> that's the old page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Goals
17:15:51 <jlaska> f13: re TCMS ... there isn't any news on the nitrate front ... they are still working on their own internal milestones
17:15:53 <rjune> is there a new page? (I was actually working and not paying attention in here)
17:16:07 <jlaska> rjune: I have a draft on my desktop that's not posted yet
17:16:17 <jlaska> I'll be sure to send something to the list for review once I've got it posted
17:16:37 <rjune> thanks.
17:16:44 <jlaska> f13: in recent news, mchua has offered help to configure a mediawiki+semantic instance for us to use during F12
17:16:55 <jlaska> f13: the infrastructure team kindly provided a play space and installed the packages needed
17:17:13 <jlaska> mchua and I have been playing phone tag a bit so haven't been able to sync up this past week.
17:17:39 <jlaska> mchua setup the laptop.org semantic extension to improve test results query+collection for them
17:17:42 <f13> ok
17:17:47 <f13> hurray for interns!
17:17:53 <jlaska> so while not a full fledged TCMS, I think of this as a short-term solution to get us over the hump
17:18:17 <jlaska> definitely, I don't think this falls under her normal responsibilities, so I definitely appreciate the time she can loan!
17:18:55 <jlaska> For Fedora 13, we should have some automation in place, I think we can then meet and discuss as a group how best to proceed with a TCMS
17:19:59 <jlaska> another quickie ...
17:20:14 <jlaska> since folks might have been distracted with FUDCon or holidays ...
17:20:18 <jlaska> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00009.html
17:20:36 <jlaska> I posted feedback from the Test Day survey ... and started to outline some recommendations
17:21:01 <jlaska> I welcome any thoughts to the list
17:21:14 <jlaska> If no other topics ... we'll close things out in 4 minutes ...
17:24:47 <jlaska> T - 15 seconds
17:25:05 <jlaska> Okay gang, thanks for your time and input
17:25:06 <dpravec> maybe one small idea... we could use mumble to do audio meetings.
17:25:15 <jlaska> dpravec: sorry
17:25:19 <jlaska> I'm not familiar
17:25:47 <dpravec> its similar to irc, but its voip app.
17:26:06 <kparal> it's just similar to ventrilo, teamspeak or skype rooms (?)
17:26:17 <jlaska> dpravec: this topic came up a few weeks back on whether we should use the Fedora talk VOIP server to host meetings
17:26:20 <dpravec> created originally for gamers, similar to teamspeak, but free software
17:26:21 <Viking-Ice> interesting who's going to note down what was talked about ?
17:26:32 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: I'll send notes to the list for review
17:26:39 <dpravec> i can write small wiki page about it
17:26:49 <Viking-Ice> then again we could provide audio file..
17:26:50 <rjune> Viking-Ice: fedbot records it
17:27:03 <rjune> oh, nmind. I'm a tard
17:27:24 <jlaska> there were some concerns around accessibility when this topic last came up
17:27:31 * jlaska finds notes
17:27:42 <dpravec> yes imho mac version is missing :)
17:27:47 <Viking-Ice> jlaska: was referring to this mumble idea..
17:27:54 <dpravec> http://mumble.sf.net
17:27:56 <f13> not just that, but voice is much harder for people to participate in
17:27:59 <jlaska> Viking-Ice: yeah sorry :(
17:28:06 <dpravec> we can combine it to get best
17:28:06 <f13> dpravec: Fedora already has a VOIP solution, Fedora Talk
17:28:17 <jlaska> dpravec: http://talk.fedoraproject.org/
17:28:27 <f13> also, voice meetings lose a /lot/ of archival uses, meeting logs and all that
17:29:04 <jlaska> I'm a fan of using the phone at times, but I know IRC is really popular in the fedora space and f13 mentions valid points
17:29:17 <Viking-Ice> agreed
17:29:19 <jlaska> dpravec: we did have consensus around using fedora talk for FAD's
17:29:25 <dpravec> ok
17:29:27 <dpravec> np
17:29:29 <jlaska> which was a forum/format where that worked really well in
17:29:40 <jlaska> so a good idea, I think just trying to figure out where best to apply it
17:29:45 <dpravec> its hard to grep audio file :))
17:29:51 <jlaska> hehe
17:30:06 <jlaska> okay gang ... going to wrap things up
17:30:11 <jlaska> thanks for your time and input!!
17:30:17 <jlaska> #endmeeting