19:00:57 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Office Hours
19:00:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jun  9 19:00:57 2022 UTC.
19:00:57 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:00:57 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at
19:00:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs_office_hours'
19:01:05 <bcotton> #chair pboy
19:01:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton pboy
19:01:13 <pboy> .hi
19:01:14 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <>
19:01:39 <bcotton> #info this is an open meeting to discuss the new content strategy for Fedora's user docs
19:01:51 <bcotton> #link
19:01:58 <heidal[m]> .hi
19:01:59 <zodbot> heidal[m]: Sorry, but user 'heidal [m]' does not exist
19:02:38 <heidal[m]> .hi
19:02:39 <zodbot> heidal[m]: Sorry, but user 'heidal [m]' does not exist
19:02:40 <marcdeop[m]> .hi
19:02:41 <zodbot> marcdeop[m]: Sorry, but user 'marcdeop [m]' does not exist
19:03:54 <bcotton> welcome, nonexistent friends :-)
19:03:55 <pboy> zodbot is bitchy today.
19:05:39 <marcdeop[m]> I am curious to see what is going on and if I can help
19:05:58 <bcotton> marcdeop: we're always looking for help :-)
19:06:38 <bcotton> the short version is that we want to present docs to the user based on the variant (e.g. Workstation, KDE Plasma, etc) with shared source asciidoc files where appropriate
19:07:14 <heidal[m]> The planning is clear to me.
19:08:16 <bcotton> so each variant would have it's own Installation Guide, for example, but they'd all use the same source when the content is the same
19:11:08 <bcotton> pboy, perhaps you could speak to specific ways people could help contribute?
19:11:56 <pboy> Well, first It is a significant change and we would like to get feedback on it.
19:12:18 <pboy> Is it plausible? will it improve documentation?
19:12:34 <heidal[m]> I presume the path to part 1 is already laden. I'm curious what else is on the pipeline. Keen to know if there is something a newbie or casual contributor can assist with.
19:13:20 <pboy> heidal[m]  at the moment nothing decided yet.
19:14:21 <pboy> The restructuring will keep us very busy for some time.
19:15:08 <pboy> In addition, there are some ideas. For example, QuickDoc needs some maintenance.
19:15:27 <pboy> We need a style guide.
19:15:51 <pboy> to name just two.
19:16:00 <bcotton> hankuoffroad: also, the F36 release notes still have open issues. that's a good list of small contributions to make
19:16:47 <pboy> To also newbies and occasional contributor can help a lot.
19:16:55 <heidal[m]> pboy: How many contributors stepped forward for QuickDoc?
19:17:38 <pboy> heidal[m]. We haven't planned it that precisely yet bar.
19:18:06 <bcotton> hankuoffroad: most of the quickdocs contributions are one-off. we don't have a lot of sustained contribution there at the moment
19:18:40 <pboy> Example for newbies: Review of the revised texts. Are they helpful? understandable? is something missing?
19:19:21 <heidal[m]> pboy: oki, is there something like this for Docs?
19:19:53 <pboy> Yes, bcotton knows the link
19:20:09 <heidal[m]> pboy: #agreed
19:21:55 <pboy> bcotton, do you have the link at hand?
19:22:18 <bcotton> pboy: i had to wait for Pagure to come back online so I could see the comparison
19:22:28 <bcotton> are you referring to ?
19:22:45 <pboy> yes, it is
19:24:06 <pboy> pagure is a bit slow today
19:25:28 <heidal[m]> bcotton: That's correct. I saw it. I'll dig into this.
19:26:30 <pboy> heidal[m] We are in the process to migrate everything to gitlab. So everything is in flux regarding organisation.
19:27:12 <heidal[m]> <pboy> "We need a style guide." <- I must confess this is beyond me.
19:28:24 <pboy> heidal[m] Yeah, it is a very special task.  :-) But we have other things in quantities.
19:28:53 <pboy> review, editing texts things like that.
19:29:30 <pboy> even "just" review and comment is very useful and improves qualitiy.
19:33:39 <heidal[m]> pboy: Cautious to point out that I see some inconsistency in code conventions among editions.
19:34:16 <pboy> could you give an example?
19:34:27 <heidal[m]> I'm grateful to docs I heavily used for my baby steps to set up ARM server.
19:35:42 <heidal[m]> pboy: when commands are inserted into Docs, some editions have a space between the prompt and commands. Some editions use [...], others have different convention.
19:36:22 <pboy> yes, I see, that's a matter of the missing style guide, indeed.
19:36:51 <pboy> Currently it completely depends on the author's way to do it.
19:37:58 <heidal[m]> some books even omit $ because it is repetitive. I know $ is widely accepted.
19:38:45 <pboy> Usually $ is an indicator for non-root priviledge, and # for root.
19:39:27 <pboy> And some use [...] as indicator of an inout prompt in contrast to a system responce.
19:40:13 <pboy> For all these things we need a style guide. And an info for the reader, what is an indicator for something.
19:40:47 <heidal[m]> #agreed
19:42:40 <pboy> Regarding ARM server: we are in need of use cases and tutorials as part of the server documentation.  contributions are very welcome.
19:43:17 <heidal[m]> What's the criteria to get involved with contribution to docs? I saw membership discussions earlier this year, but didnn't participate in voting.
19:43:56 <pboy> There are no prereqisite criteria. everyone is welcome.
19:44:34 <heidal[m]> pboy: I thought that was more of magazine articles. After I finished one article, I already hit the writer's block :)
19:45:27 <pboy> Yeah, that happens to professional writers too
19:45:49 <heidal[m]> pboy: Good to know. This is the first time I dipped into this meeting.
19:46:54 <pboy> Regarding Magazine Artikels. They are of limited  lenght and details.
19:47:35 <pboy> Many can be extended and are then a good tutorial or use case description.
19:47:52 <pboy> as part of Fedora documentation.
19:48:02 <heidal[m]> Which meeting should I attend for Docs workgroup? is ?
19:48:33 <pboy> Yes, that is our weekly meeting.
19:48:44 <bcotton> that's our regular chat channel. we have meetings in #fedora-meeting-1 on Wednesdays
19:49:01 <bcotton> at 1830 UTC if I did the timezone math right :-)
19:49:01 <pboy> Yeah, sorry, my fault.
19:49:18 <pboy> 1820 UTC yes.
19:49:25 <pboy> 1830!! UTC
19:49:34 <pboy> Mori
19:49:43 <heidal[m]> ah i got it. I now synced Fedocal with my calendar. No, it was my ignorance on UTC and GMT.
19:49:55 <pboy> More livid is  tag #docs
19:50:25 <heidal[m]> that works for me because I live in UTC+1 zone.
19:50:43 <pboy> Me to :-)
19:51:15 <heidal[m]> I saw some German text in docs, is that you?
19:52:13 <pboy> I fear yes. :-)
19:52:31 <pboy> Must have been the translator's failure.
19:52:58 <heidal[m]> We need a pair (or two or mote) of eyes :)
19:53:12 <pboy> Therefore we need reviews.  :-)
19:53:50 <pboy> An author is always bad as a proofreader of his own text.
19:54:28 <heidal[m]> Comments before publication (like editors or proofreaders) ensure my article is not subject to nitpicking (due to grammatical or contextual error, sheer stupidity of mine) or a grave issue (controversy). It is sort of sense check and foolproofness.
19:55:00 <heidal[m]> Comments after publication help me find dead spot, which I overlooked.
19:55:55 <heidal[m]> I didn't plagiarize it. Just came from the other day and wanted to share
19:57:04 <pboy> +1
19:58:56 <heidal[m]> <pboy> "An author is always bad as a..." <- At the Magazine, Richard England and Gregory helped me a lot.
19:59:56 <pboy> Me too. Fortunately, they do a review on every article.
20:01:32 <bcotton> okay, the hour is up. Thanks to everyone who came by, and we'll see you in  or in the #docs tag on
20:01:35 <pboy> I see, out time is up.
20:01:35 <bcotton> #endmeeting