workstation
LOGS
05:42:48 <cmurf> #startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-09-29)
05:42:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct  1 05:42:48 2020 UTC.
05:42:48 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
05:42:48 <zodbot> The chair is cmurf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:42:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:42:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2020-09-29)'
05:42:50 <cmurf> #meetingname workstation
05:42:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
05:42:52 <cmurf> #chair cmurf
05:42:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: cmurf
05:43:05 <cmurf> #topic Rollcall
05:43:07 <cmurf> #info present: cmurf, mcatanzaro, mclasen, aday, tpopela, langdon, neal, otaylor
05:43:09 <cmurf> #info regrets wg members:
05:43:11 <cmurf> #info present guests: zac, dcavalca, feborges
05:43:13 <cmurf> #topic Approve 22 Sep minutes:
05:43:15 <cmurf> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-09-24-01.42.log.html
05:43:17 <cmurf> #agreed Approved, no objections
05:43:19 <cmurf> #topic Announcements
05:43:21 <cmurf> #info F33 beta is today
05:43:23 <cmurf> #topic Follow-ups & status reports
05:43:25 <cmurf> Matthias: GNOME is changing its versioning - the next one will be GNOME 40
05:43:27 <cmurf> Kalev: 40~beta would be better than 40.beta; has discussed this with ebassi but he's not biting. Anticipates that all the major distros will be using ~. Is concerned that some packages might get the conversion from . to ~ wrong. - would be easier to deal with than . - dots can't be automatically converted to ~.
05:43:29 <cmurf> Matthias: it should be possible to automatically translate dots to tildas - can help with that.
05:43:31 <cmurf> Kalev: the problem is that the dot carries meaning - it looks like a version but it isn't. Distros agree that dots aren't a good idea.
05:43:33 <cmurf> Tomas: we didn't get the Firefox beta blocker, so we're releasing beta with an outdated Firefox. Disappointed by this - will be proposing additional criteria for F34.
05:43:35 <cmurf> #topic Remove nautilus-sendto from default install #185
05:43:37 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/185
05:43:39 <cmurf> Kalev: it's retired in rawhide and it's deprecated upstream
05:43:41 <cmurf> #agreed No objections - we'll remove it
05:43:43 <cmurf> #topic Enable low-memory-monitor.service #190
05:43:45 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/190
05:43:47 <cmurf> Kalev: it's already included in F32, but it's disabled, so enabling it won't turn it on for upgrades. Services should be enabled when they're included.
05:43:49 <cmurf> Neal: it is possible to enable services on upgrade; we're just stuck on agreeing which approach should be used.
05:43:51 <cmurf> Owen: it's part of the system definition, so we should do whatever it takes to turn it on.
05:43:53 <cmurf> Michael: it competes with part of earlyoom; we don't want it to be redundant with systemd-oomd
05:43:55 <cmurf> #info This is targeting F34
05:43:57 <cmurf> #agreed Deferred for one week - let's ask these questions in the ticket
05:43:59 <cmurf> #topic Enable power-profiles-daemon by default #191
05:44:01 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/191
05:44:03 <cmurf> Owen: this is a F34 / GNOME 40 request. Changes are targeting rawhide.
05:44:05 <cmurf> #topic Make use of malcontent in the default install? #186
05:44:07 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/186
05:44:09 <cmurf> Neal: it's a headline GNOME 3.38 feature so it would be weird not to include it
05:44:11 <cmurf> Allan: has tested the app and doesn't think it's ready - every user gets a prominent Parental Controls app which is currently confusing
05:44:13 <cmurf> Unclear what the options are - can we make it available without exposing every user to the Parental Controls app. Owen: it would be good to investigate what our options are.
05:44:15 <cmurf> Kalev: parental controls are a compile-time option in gnome-control-center
05:44:17 <cmurf> Neal: can we build the app but not initial setup and control center with parental controls enabled? Allan: if we try this, we should test the app to make sure that it makes sense without the other bits enabled.
05:44:19 <cmurf> #agreed Let's not build the integrations and see if we can build the app but not include it by default.
05:44:21 <cmurf> #topic Make a small core of packages non-removable with DNF #165
05:44:23 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/165
05:44:25 <cmurf> We previously approved the uncontroversial items from the issue. The controversial ones remain: gnome-software, gnome-terminal, yelp.
05:44:27 <cmurf> Allan: motivation for these changes:
05:44:29 <cmurf> - yelp - a lot of apps link to the docs, so if yelp is missing we could get a lot of broken links
05:44:31 <cmurf> - gnome-software - software updates and notifications for critical system functions
05:44:33 <cmurf> - gnome-terminal & gnome-software - if you dnf remove them both, you could be left with no way to add a terminal back (without going to a tty)
05:44:35 <cmurf> Owen: if you are removing yelp and software you're in the realm of customization; we want a way for people to customize workstation
05:44:37 <cmurf> Matthias & Neal: agree that software should be non-removable, but unfortunately it has issues
05:44:39 <cmurf> Matthias: doesn't see the rationale for making yelp non-removable
05:44:41 <cmurf> Michael: thinks no, we should let users break their systems if they want to
05:44:43 <cmurf> Kalev: it shouldn't be possible to remove gnome-software from gnome-software, but it should be possible to remove it through dnf
05:44:45 <cmurf> #agreed yelp, gnome-software and gnome-terminal should be removable through dnf
05:44:47 <cmurf> #topic GNOME Software is recommending proprietary software #111
05:44:49 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/111
05:44:51 <cmurf> #agree Deferred
05:44:53 <cmurf> #topic Open floor
05:44:55 <cmurf> #info https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2476 - systemd-resolved by default should be deferred to a future release
05:45:01 <cmurf> #endmeeting