workstation
LOGS
04:36:56 <cmurf> #startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-08-25)
04:36:56 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 26 04:36:56 2020 UTC.
04:36:56 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
04:36:56 <zodbot> The chair is cmurf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
04:36:56 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
04:36:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2020-08-25)'
04:36:58 <cmurf> #meetingname workstation
04:36:58 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
04:37:00 <cmurf> #chair cmurf
04:37:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: cmurf
04:37:25 <cmurf> #topic Rollcall
04:37:27 <cmurf> #info present wg members: cmurf, tpopela, aday, mclasen, kalev, neal, mcatanzaro, langdon
04:37:29 <cmurf> #info regrets wg members: petersen
04:37:31 <cmurf> #info present guests:
04:37:33 <cmurf> #topic Approval of 17 Aug minutes
04:37:35 <cmurf> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-08-19-18.13.log.html
04:37:37 <cmurf> Langdon: not happy with a line in the minutes, about renaming downstream apps. Feels that it lost context. How to deal with that?
04:37:39 <cmurf> Neal: Agrees.
04:37:41 <cmurf> Chris: could reply to the minutes email when it goes out. Alternatively, could overwrite the record of the minutes in meetboot, with an updated version.
04:37:43 <cmurf> Langdon: would prefer to have the permanent record amended.
04:37:45 <cmurf> #action Langdon to provide Chris with the amendment, then we'll re-approve
04:37:47 <cmurf> #topic Announcements
04:37:49 <cmurf> #info Today is beta freeze
04:37:51 <cmurf> #topic Follow-ups  & Status reports
04:37:53 <cmurf> #info Workstation F33 image is still a bit oversize
04:37:55 <cmurf> #info kalev has submitted a PR to make gnome-shell non-removable
04:37:57 <cmurf> #info GNOME upstream release happened on August 22 (beta 2?). Kalev is turning the wheels to get the updates in.
04:37:59 <cmurf> #topic Meta issue: pre-installed programs+apps for F33
04:38:01 <cmurf> Changes will require freeze breaks.
04:38:03 <cmurf> #topic Make a small core of packages non-removable with DNF
04:38:05 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/165
04:38:07 <cmurf> #topic Remove Photos and Rhythmbox from the default apps
04:38:09 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/164
04:38:11 <cmurf> Bastien made totem not play audio for the upcoming release. Michael suggests that we just defer to upstream.
04:38:13 <cmurf> Allan: there's no urgency on this and there are other moving parts which are giving us reason to pause and rethink. We can wait.
04:38:15 <cmurf> Neal: it's late in the cycle to be making changes - let's leave any changes until F34.
04:38:17 <cmurf> #agreed We'll wait to do anything with Photos - Allan to speak to Debarshi about the change first
04:38:19 <cmurf> #topic Remove Boxes from default install
04:38:21 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/179
04:38:23 <cmurf> langdon: Boxes meets a developer need
04:38:25 <cmurf> kalev: some people might prefer virt-manager
04:38:27 <cmurf> neal: reason virtual box is not in Fedora is an out of tree kernel module; pre-installing Boxes encourages qemu-kvm usage
04:38:29 <cmurf> tomas: Concerned about too many pre-installed application changes, and users being unable to find GNOME Boxes; in favor of including free software that's mostly OK rather than putting users in the position of choosing something proprietary.
04:38:31 <cmurf> langdon: no indication that anything is pre-installed; can we do a better job of indicating what's available? Dash? We don't tell a very good story what we're promoting
04:38:33 <cmurf> Neal: We don't tell a good story about why users should use desktop, broadly. Not just Workstation.
04:38:35 <cmurf> Tomas: I agree but where and how to do that?
04:38:37 <cmurf> langdon: ways we can go down that path, could be a series of blog articles, asking the user for the profile they'd like to start with: admin, media, developer; we've never discussed how to approach this. I always have a mental block about how we tell this story better.
04:38:39 <cmurf> Neal: Windows macOS, first start highlights what's preinstalled, draws attention; tour
04:38:41 <cmurf> tomas: they have a big marketing department
04:38:43 <cmurf> langdon: if we have the idea, the potential for making it happen; if we had the resources, what would we do? Should we ask the community how to promote them? There might be more resources than we know about.
04:38:45 <cmurf> Langdon: Twitch stream. Easier to do on Fedora.
04:38:47 <cmurf> #agreed Deferred until F34
04:38:49 <cmurf> Langdon: wouldn't like to see Boxes removed, on the basis that it would deviate from the PRD (and a mission of supporting developers)
04:38:51 <cmurf> Matthias: reasons to remove Boxes are mostly technical; could be resolved in libvirt.
04:38:53 <cmurf> WG discusses Boxes, VirtualBox, developer focus. What sort of applications do we want to have installed by default?
04:38:55 <cmurf> #action: Chris to talk to Daniel about networking problem on live image.
04:38:57 <cmurf> #action: Chris to talk to Mark Pearson about Lenovo's needs for default apps.
04:38:59 <cmurf> Installing applications by default allows us to promote them. How do we promote Boxes if it's not installed by default?
04:39:01 <cmurf> #topic Make a small core of packages non-removable with DNF
04:39:03 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/165
04:39:05 <cmurf> #info Making gnome-shell non-removable is in-progress
04:39:07 <cmurf> #action Neal to talk to bootloader team to make grub nonremovable
04:39:09 <cmurf> #topic Open Floor
04:39:25 <cmurf> #endmeeting