14:01:30 <mhroncok> #startmeeting FESCO (2020-07-08)
14:01:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul  8 14:01:30 2020 UTC.
14:01:30 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:01:30 <zodbot> The chair is mhroncok. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2020-07-08)'
14:01:35 <mhroncok> #meetingname fesco
14:01:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
14:01:38 <mhroncok> #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, cverna, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor
14:01:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku cverna dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek
14:01:41 <mhroncok> #topic init process#topic init process#topic init process
14:01:43 <mhroncok> #topic init process
14:01:45 <zbyszek> .hello2
14:01:46 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
14:01:47 <dcantrell> .hello2
14:01:49 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
14:01:56 <nirik> morning
14:02:26 <mhroncok> .hello churchyard
14:02:26 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
14:03:03 <mhroncok> zbyszek, dcantrell, nirik: hey
14:03:06 <decathorpe> .hello2
14:03:07 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com>
14:03:26 * mhroncok forgot to send out IRC announcement before the meeting, sorry about that
14:03:38 <mhroncok> with decathorpe, we have quorum
14:03:39 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa
14:03:39 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
14:03:49 <mhroncok> that's 6
14:04:08 <dcantrell> I am again concurrently in this meeting and the fedora council meeting
14:04:10 * cverna waives
14:04:24 <mhroncok> 7
14:04:51 <ignatenkobrain> .hello2
14:04:52 <zodbot> ignatenkobrain: ignatenkobrain 'Igor Raits' <igor.raits@gmail.com>
14:04:54 <mhroncok> 8
14:05:09 <mhroncok> #topic #2420 F33 System-Wide Change: Use %make_build and %make_install macros
14:05:13 <mhroncok> .fesco 2420
14:05:25 <mhroncok> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2420
14:05:46 <mhroncok> does anybody has an actionable proposal for this?
14:06:22 <nirik> is part of this already landed? I haven't looked but there was talk on devel about it?
14:06:47 <zbyszek> proposal: approve Neal's proposal in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2420#comment-662515 and ask change owner to reopen discussion if they think more should happen than that.
14:07:04 <zbyszek> (for reference, the proposal was:
14:07:07 <zbyszek> > I'm basically only in favor of making make %{?_smp_mflags} -> %make_build and make DESTDIR=%{buildroot} install -> %make_install substitutions. The rest, I feel very iffy about just going and changing.
14:07:11 <zbyszek> ))
14:07:33 <ignatenkobrain> +1
14:07:42 <nirik> +1
14:07:53 <zbyszek> nirik: maybe you're thinking about the cmake change?
14:07:57 <decathorpe> +1. anything more can always be a "second step"
14:08:00 <cverna> +1`
14:08:08 <nirik> zbyszek: ah, could be.
14:08:12 * nirik has more coffee
14:08:27 <mhroncok> AFAIK they already said on the mailing list that if the change is reduced to this, they loose interest
14:08:34 * mhroncok looks
14:09:32 <decathorpe> well, but doing "more" is potentially harmful and / or pointless in some cases :(
14:09:34 <mhroncok> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/CPRVJJ56XSF4S6DSYIPVXHEXUXGR4PUX/
14:10:33 <decathorpe> His suggestion to restrict to "make 'build', check, and install targets" sounds good though.
14:10:46 <mhroncok> exactly
14:10:50 <mhroncok> tstellar: are you around?
14:11:02 <zbyszek> The guidelines have been requiring parallelism for years, and reviews have been fairly strict about this. So I don't expect non-parallel builds where it would be OK and make an actual difference.
14:11:17 <King_InuYasha> +1 to my own proposal :)
14:11:27 * nirik agrees with zbyszek there.
14:11:32 <zbyszek> And failures can be non-deterministic, so "it built fine" is not enough of a test.
14:12:09 <mhroncok> the proposal is basically declining the change as is and replacing it for a mass spec update (that doesn't change the output), is that intentional?
14:12:35 <zbyszek> mhroncok: yes
14:12:52 <mhroncok> I am +-0
14:13:16 <mhroncok> I count +6
14:13:35 <mhroncok> dcantrell: ?
14:13:48 <dcantrell> I'd like to hear from tstellar before a vote on the new proposal
14:14:43 <mhroncok> dcantrell: how do I count that?
14:15:16 <dcantrell> I'm not opposed to the new proposal, but I'm not considering myself a +1 yet
14:15:19 <dcantrell> so, 0?
14:15:25 <mhroncok> ack
14:15:39 <dcantrell> I don't know the differences again between -0, 0, and +0 with regards to voting
14:15:42 <dcantrell> I remember we talked about it once
14:15:53 <zbyszek> Difference is only psychological
14:15:57 <dcantrell> heh
14:15:59 <King_InuYasha> :)
14:16:00 <mhroncok> #agreed Neal's proposal in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2420#comment-662515 and ask change owner to reopen discussion if they think more should happen than that. APPROVED (+6, 2, -0)
14:16:36 <mhroncok> #topic Next week's chair
14:16:52 <zbyszek> I mean, if there are packages which are not building in parallel and they should, let's fix that by all means too.
14:17:08 <zbyszek> But I don't think this should be hidden under a wide sweep of macro changes.
14:17:13 <mhroncok> zbyszek: sure but that is happening currently as well
14:17:22 <zbyszek> Yes.
14:17:26 <mhroncok> zbyszek: ack
14:17:32 <mhroncok> Next week's chair?
14:17:33 <dcantrell> zbyszek: ack
14:17:51 <zbyszek> I can do it.
14:17:57 <mhroncok> #action zbyszek will chair next meeting
14:17:59 <mhroncok> zbyszek++
14:18:01 <zodbot> mhroncok: Karma for zbyszek changed to 7 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
14:18:02 <mhroncok> thank you
14:18:09 <mhroncok> #topic Open Floor
14:18:21 <mhroncok> dcantrell: Any update on council changing their meeting time?
14:18:35 <dcantrell> yes, it looks like we can move the council meeting.  I was going to verify that today
14:18:50 <dcantrell> unless bcotton is here now, who knows.  we all seem to be in all the meetings all the time
14:19:00 <dcantrell> I see Neal on my iPad right now and in this meeting
14:19:03 <bcotton> ohai
14:19:10 <dcantrell> bcotton: are we moving the council meeting?
14:19:13 <bcotton> there's a proposal in the works but not a final decision
14:19:13 <nirik> all meetings all the time.
14:19:41 <bcotton> the people most affected have yet to weigh in
14:19:55 <mhroncok> all your meeting times are belong to us
14:19:55 <dcantrell> bcotton: *sigh*, ok.
14:20:04 <mhroncok> bcotton: thnaks for the update
14:20:14 <mhroncok> anything else for the open floor?
14:20:16 <bcotton> dcantrell: if you expect council to ever do anything quickly, you will be very sad :-)
14:20:23 <mhroncok> :D
14:20:25 <dcantrell> bcotton: noted
14:20:42 <dcantrell> not related to anything, but over 60 days after I ordered a Prusa 3D printer, it is arriving tomorrow
14:20:58 <dcantrell> ordering during a pandemic is...fun
14:21:14 <decathorpe> mhroncok: Do we want to discuss our preordained votes for next week's tickets?
14:21:20 * nirik just got the pinephone he ordered many months ago
14:21:42 <mhroncok> decathorpe: our preordained votes?
14:21:54 <bcotton> decathorpe++
14:22:04 <decathorpe> I mean, like, the backroom dealings people think we do :)
14:22:19 <mhroncok> why on earth would we do that in a logged meeting?
14:22:22 <zbyszek> decathorpe, we're not supposed to talk about this.
14:22:25 <dcantrell> haha
14:22:30 <decathorpe> oh right. silly me
14:22:34 <nirik> ha
14:22:54 <bcotton> i'll send everyone Red Hat's decrees via carrier pigeon by the end of the week
14:22:58 <mhroncok> we meet in the back ally as usual
14:23:15 <decathorpe> bcotton: I'll keep my window open
14:23:52 <dcantrell> so RFC2549 or RFC6214?
14:24:08 <mhroncok> with that, I think we can end the meeting and continue plotting secretly
14:24:14 <bcotton> an unpublished RFC, of course
14:24:18 <decathorpe> mhroncok++
14:24:18 <bcotton> mhroncok++
14:24:23 <dcantrell> mhroncok++
14:24:23 <zodbot> dcantrell: Karma for churchyard changed to 11 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
14:24:24 <mhroncok> dcantrell: enjoy your printer
14:24:34 <mhroncok> nirik: and your phone
14:24:38 <dcantrell> the first thing I'm going to have it do is print more of itself!
14:24:44 <mhroncok> #endmeeting