workstation_wg
LOGS
13:00:15 <mcatanzaro> #startmeeting workstation
13:00:15 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 18 13:00:15 2018 UTC.
13:00:15 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:00:15 <zodbot> The chair is mcatanzaro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00:15 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:00:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
13:00:20 <mcatanzaro> #meetingname Workstation WG
13:00:20 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg'
13:00:26 <mcatanzaro> #topic roll call
13:00:30 <mcatanzaro> .hello catanzaro
13:00:31 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: catanzaro 'Michael Catanzaro' <mcatanzaro@gnome.org>
13:00:45 <ryanlerch> .hello ryanlerch
13:00:46 <zodbot> ryanlerch: ryanlerch 'Ryan Lerch' <rlerch@redhat.com>
13:03:43 <mclasen> .hello mclasen
13:03:44 <zodbot> mclasen: mclasen 'Matthias Clasen' <mclasen@redhat.com>
13:05:16 <mclasen> we need some more people
13:05:26 <mcatanzaro> Yup
13:05:37 <mclasen> no cschaller here, don't see owen online either
13:06:14 <mcatanzaro> I understand kalev is on vacation
13:06:55 <mclasen> oh, he's back today
13:06:58 <mclasen> lets find him
13:06:58 <kalev> kalev is back!
13:07:16 <mcatanzaro> OK, now we are four... need one more
13:07:29 <mclasen> cschaller just walked in here
13:07:59 <mcatanzaro> Westford?
13:08:06 <mcatanzaro> Anyway, I'll count him as five... let's start
13:08:28 * cschalle hi
13:08:34 <mcatanzaro> #topic VS Code repo as external repo
13:08:35 * cschalle sorry I am late
13:08:38 <mcatanzaro> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/52
13:09:18 <mcatanzaro> This one has been tagged for meeting for two months, with no activity. I missed last week, but I don't remember discussing it.
13:09:24 <cschalle> ok, so I been in touch with Microsoft and I think I am speaking with the right people now. Haven't gotten over the finish line yet though
13:09:43 <mcatanzaro> OK, so still being handled by cschalle... anything to discuss this week?
13:09:45 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, ah, I think it was supposed to be tagged for me :)
13:10:09 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, not really apart from that update. I mean they have a fully functional RPM YUM repo, we just need to convince them to add the metadata
13:10:24 <mcatanzaro> cschalle: Could you remove the meeting tag please, and add some comment to the issue to update us as to the status of it? We'll move on to the next agenda item, then.
13:10:33 <cschalle> will do
13:10:46 <mcatanzaro> #topic PyCharm repo doesn't work
13:10:49 <mcatanzaro> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/55
13:11:41 <mcatanzaro> Is this another one for cschalle? What's the status here?
13:11:55 <cschalle> I thought that got resolved as he updated his repo?
13:13:08 <kalev> yep, this one should be resolved
13:13:31 <cschalle> hmm, still broken when I just tried. Ok let me reach out to the maintainer
13:13:35 <kalev> not sure the social issue around this is resolved though? is the copr repo author still ok with it being an official workstation 3rd party repo?
13:14:01 <cschalle> kalev, he didn't respond to my comment when I pointed out to him he agreed to it in 2015, but I will find out
13:14:36 <cschalle> ok, taking this ticket too :)
13:14:41 <kalev> great, thanks cschalle :)
13:14:47 <mcatanzaro> #action cschalle to follow up with repo maintainer
13:14:50 <mcatanzaro> Yes, thanks cschalle
13:15:07 <mcatanzaro> Please update the ticket too
13:15:10 <mcatanzaro> Moving on
13:15:21 <mcatanzaro> #topic firefox-wayland desktop file
13:15:25 <mcatanzaro> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/59
13:15:40 <mcatanzaro> We now have two different Firefox icons... I don't like it
13:16:10 <mclasen> they are the same icon...
13:16:12 <mcatanzaro> My preference would be for the testing icon (Firefox on Wayland) to be moved to a subpackage, so that it's opt-in instead of seen by all our users. Thoughts?
13:16:29 <mcatanzaro> OK, one icon, two launchers. Violates our rule that the launchers must have a unique icon, anyway. :P
13:17:01 <mclasen> I would prefer the icon to be different in some way, if we have to keep it
13:17:07 <cschalle> hmm, I got search in GNOME Software, I only see one Firefox offered
13:17:19 <ryanlerch> mcatanzaro: +1 -- i get confused now when i install a flatpak and the same application as an RPM
13:17:21 <cschalle> s/got/just/
13:17:30 <ryanlerch> having this by default with firefox is not ideal
13:17:41 <mcatanzaro> cschalle: It's only one package, so you'll only see it once in Software, but you should have it twice on your desktop.
13:17:58 <mcatanzaro> I have two different applications in my overview: "Firefox" and "Firefox on Wayland"
13:17:59 <cschalle> oh, I hadn't even noticed ;)
13:18:39 <mcatanzaro> #chair rdieter cschalle ryanlerch mclasen kalev
13:18:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle kalev mcatanzaro mclasen rdieter ryanlerch
13:19:33 <rdieter> hi
13:19:47 <mclasen> I think we should ask the firefox team to remove it, or move it to a subpackage, as you say
13:20:02 * kalev agrees.
13:20:07 <mcatanzaro> Hi rdieter! Anyway yes, I agree with mclasen's proposal.
13:20:15 <ryanlerch> +1 to a subpackage from me
13:20:26 <cschalle> ok subpackage seems fine to me too +1
13:20:45 <mcatanzaro> OK, I'll update the ticket. Final agenda item next! \o/
13:20:52 <mcatanzaro> #topic Wayland remoting
13:20:56 <mcatanzaro> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/60
13:21:21 <mcatanzaro> Do we support the proposal to (a) install gnome-remote-desktop by default, and (b) make the pipewire service socket-activated?
13:21:40 <mcatanzaro> I assume "yes" to both as this seems uncontroversial
13:21:59 <kalev> +1 from me
13:22:02 <ryanlerch> side-question, why was it removed?
13:22:11 <mclasen> why was what removed ?
13:22:38 <ryanlerch> the bug says "bring back"
13:22:53 <mclasen> desktop sharing was always supported under X, and so far, not under wayland
13:23:04 <ryanlerch> mclasen: ah -- okies thanks!
13:23:05 <mclasen> so the change to wayland by default 'removed' it
13:23:31 <ryanlerch> +1 to the proposal(s) from me
13:23:38 <mclasen> +1 from me as well, naturally
13:23:58 <mclasen> I'm not sure if there are technicalities for socket-activation - does that need fesco approval ? kalev ?
13:24:00 <cschalle> +1
13:24:49 <sgallagh> mclasen: One sec, I'll get you the policy. It's not too difficult.
13:25:08 <kalev> thanks sgallagh
13:25:14 <sgallagh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:DefaultServices
13:25:39 <rdieter> is it a system or user service ?
13:25:50 <rdieter> (of former, then it will require approval, otherwise not)
13:25:54 <rdieter> if former...
13:26:08 <rdieter> I looked into that awhile back when researching pulseaudio activation
13:27:23 <sgallagh> rdieter: Even if it's a user service, if it's opening a port for other computers to talk to, it should follow this policy.
13:28:00 <mclasen> it doesn't
13:28:11 <sgallagh> But I'll note that FESCo *has* delegated the right to make such decisions to the Workstation WG for things that are exclusive to Workstation installs
13:28:37 <sgallagh> e.g. Workstation WG explicitly disables sshd-by-default
13:29:48 <mcatanzaro> OK it's half past... I'm going to have to turn over the meeting chair to a "volunteer." I nominate mclasen since this is the last issue and he created the ticket. OK, mclasen?
13:30:07 <mclasen> sure. but ... aren't we done ?
13:30:32 <mclasen> I saw 3 +1's so far
13:30:35 <sgallagh> mclasen: FWIW, my reading of the pipewire service suggests that it probably will pass the criteria to skip FESCo/WG approval
13:30:35 <mcatanzaro> +1
13:30:54 <cschalle> +1
13:30:58 <kalev> +1
13:31:10 <sgallagh> So just file the BZ using the template at the bottom of that wiki page and I'll get it processed for F29
13:31:38 <mclasen> #action: mclasen to file a bz for the pipewire socket activation change
13:31:45 <mclasen> any volunteer for the comps change ?
13:31:49 <mclasen> kalev, can you do that ?
13:31:55 <kalev> sure
13:32:56 <mclasen> #action: kalev to add gnome-remote-desktop to comps
13:33:07 <mclasen> #topic: open floor
13:33:16 <cschalle> ok, so I have an item
13:33:20 <cschalle> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/61
13:33:45 <cschalle> So Ferral Interactive released a tool to change the CPU governor due to problems with game performance under the default one
13:33:59 <cschalle> I been discussing it with various people internally and I also talked to Valve
13:34:45 <cschalle> I think we should ship it at this point, only downside is that while it is active your battery will drain faster, but on the other hand you are playing a performance sensitive game battery life is probably not your main concern
13:36:01 <mclasen> how will this work with flatpak sandboxes ?
13:36:09 <mclasen> is there a dbus api ?
13:36:51 <cschalle> I don't think they have a dbus API currently, but maybe they would be open to adding it
13:38:52 <mclasen> any other questions about this ? do we vote on it ?
13:39:34 <cschalle> kalev? ryanlerch? rdieter ? mcatanzaro ? any comments?
13:40:03 <kalev> makes sense to ship it I think
13:40:04 <mcatanzaro> How are games supposed to use it if there's no D-Bus API?
13:40:09 <mclasen> is this something that is 'safe' to allow apps to do ? fiddle with the governor ?
13:40:12 <mcatanzaro> Anyway, if it's open source, it's fine by me
13:40:32 <rdieter> I'm ok with it in general, will need to test it out of course
13:40:43 <mcatanzaro> It would be packaged for Fedora, not a third-party repo? Probably CPU governor tools should not be third-party. :)
13:40:44 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, it is open, BSD license
13:40:52 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, yeah in Fedora proper
13:41:28 <kalev> I think it makes sense to have a way for apps to say 'need maximum performance'
13:42:16 <mclasen> well, yes
13:42:23 <cschalle> mclasen, I don't think its unsafe in the sense that it is just a on/off switch and no risk of system corruption or sometihng like that
13:42:28 <mclasen> but does the user need to have a way to say yes or no ?
13:42:52 <cschalle> mclasen, no the games just use it I think if its available on the system
13:43:03 <cschalle> mclasen, the games do complain about it not being there though if it isn't
13:43:22 <mclasen> I would expect that users may have some desire to be in control of their battery life
13:43:46 <mclasen> and random apps fiddling with governors seems a step in the wrong direction for htat
13:43:58 <cschalle> mclasen, if they are they are probably not playing a high performance game :)
13:45:07 <cschalle> mclasen, the thing is that once you load one of those games on your system, you probably don't want to be on battery regardless
13:45:24 <cschalle> mclasen, because even with the default governor your GPU will have your battery for lunch
13:45:49 <mclasen> does this thing have bugs ? are we confident that it doesn't leave the 'eat batteries' governor turned on ?
13:46:28 <cschalle> mclasen, well that would be part of our evaluation when packaging it, but so far I seen no public complaints about it
13:46:47 <mclasen> oh, it isn't even packaged ?
13:47:00 <mclasen> what would we be voting on then ?
13:47:23 <cschalle> mclasen, to get it packaged and included
13:47:47 <mclasen> ok
13:48:01 <mclasen> shall we bring it up again when there's a package to include ?
13:48:22 <mclasen> as you say, package review will give it some scrutiny
13:48:35 <mclasen> any volunteers to package it ?
13:48:46 <cschalle> mclasen, no so you and I will have to find someone
13:48:58 <mclasen> thats what I'm doing right now...
13:50:40 <mclasen> alright, lets bring it back up when we have a package in fedora that can be included
13:50:44 <cschalle> ok, so action item for me and mclasen: find packager and get this reviewed
13:51:11 <mclasen> #action cschaller/mclasen to find a packager for the gpu governor tool thing
13:51:20 <mclasen> anything else for open floor ?
13:52:13 <mclasen> if not, then
13:52:16 <mclasen> #endmeeting