17:00:29 <hhorak> #startmeeting Env and Stacks (2015-06-11)
17:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 11 17:00:29 2015 UTC.  The chair is hhorak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:35 <hhorak> #meetingname env-and-stacks
17:00:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'env-and-stacks'
17:00:42 <hhorak> #chair bkabrda hhorak juhp ncoghlan vpavlin sicampbell walters ttomecek phracek
17:00:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: bkabrda hhorak juhp ncoghlan phracek sicampbell ttomecek vpavlin walters
17:00:49 <hhorak> #topic greetings
17:01:00 <phracek> hi
17:01:12 <hhorak> hello
17:01:20 <phracek> Congratulations to RHSCL:)
17:02:36 <hhorak> phracek: :) yeah, guys did good work.. but it's still missing in fedora :(
17:04:27 <hhorak> #topic Env&Stacks elections -- what questions to ask the candidates?
17:04:41 <hhorak> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections/Questionnaire
17:05:01 <hhorak> this time the introduction comes as part of questionnaire
17:05:11 <hhorak> so we're supposed to prepare some nice questions there..
17:05:59 <phracek> I have a question. Are we alone in this meeting?
17:06:19 <hhorak> I see walters and vpavlin just left :(
17:06:30 <walters> i'm here
17:06:30 <phracek> ok.
17:06:45 <hhorak> so we're three, not that bad :)
17:06:47 <walters> trying to juggle a lot of htings
17:07:26 <hhorak> walters: I see, these days are touch for a lot of people..
17:07:28 <phracek> My question could be: What are your plans in Env&Stack group?
17:07:31 <phracek> or similar one.
17:07:58 <walters> yeah, something about what they think about existing efforts and which they find most interesting
17:08:33 <hhorak> there is already "What are your Future plans ?", so maybe we should be more concrete to ask about plans withing the group..
17:08:58 <hhorak> I like the question from Council part: "I've What are the most pressing issues facing Fedora today? What should we do about them?"
17:09:03 <hhorak> maybe we can just steal it :)
17:09:28 <phracek> Or more political. What can you add as benefit to Env&Stack group? Your awesome ideas?
17:09:35 <phracek> hhorak: sorry I did not catch it.
17:09:46 <hhorak> walters: that's also good idea, to get some feedback as well :)
17:10:32 <walters> "What interests you from Env and Stacks, and which projects would you contribute to?" ?
17:10:37 <phracek> The guys who joined to E&S at the begging of the year should be nominated too? Like me?
17:10:41 <walters> i like the question about general Fedora too
17:10:50 * phracek nods
17:10:57 <phracek> Great question.
17:11:37 <hhorak> phracek: I'm a bit afraid of question like "What can you add as benefit to Env&Stack group?" since I'm one of the nominees and would have troubles to answer :)
17:11:53 <hhorak> walters: I like that, will add it there..
17:11:54 <phracek> like: Are you satisfied with Fedora at all?
17:12:12 <hhorak> #info new question "What interests you from Env and Stacks, and which projects would you contribute to?"
17:12:19 <phracek> hhorak: forgot it, please:) walters has a better question:)
17:14:04 <hhorak> phracek: well, it actually is quite fair point that we need much more people who can sacrifice more time and sweat and tears.. :)
17:14:18 <phracek> Would you change something in Fedora? What are your proposals?
17:14:26 * phracek is thinking
17:14:33 <hhorak> #info let's also steal question from Council "I've What are the most pressing issues facing Fedora today? What should we do about them?"
17:14:57 <walters> +1 to that
17:15:36 <phracek> hhorak: Answer to my question from your point of view could be SCL in Fedora, I though;)
17:15:55 <hhorak> phracek: you bet it will be :)
17:16:39 <phracek> don't worry I am pretty sure that SCL in fedora will be definitely. F24 or F25. Not later on.
17:17:05 <phracek> We could make a press on this issue. I guess.
17:17:18 <hhorak> phracek: I like your question as well, but maybe it asks the same as the one from council, or did you mean something else?>
17:17:19 <phracek> There are more benefits and I guess not cons.
17:17:42 <phracek> hhorak: no. +1
17:18:15 <phracek> I guess that this question is on langdon side so that he could be at council. And he will definitely support us.
17:18:59 <hhorak> phracek: yeah, I think the biggest blocker about scls is missing proposal that includes new features ... something I can definitely to prepare but you know.. haven't find enough courage yet.. :)
17:19:25 <hhorak> I think we don't have to have too many questions, so adding those above we should be fine..
17:19:31 <phracek> yeah
17:19:44 <hhorak> #action gathering feedback from users
17:20:00 <hhorak> as promised last time, there is a etherpad
17:20:07 <hhorak> #link http://piratepad.net/env-and-stacks-users-feedback
17:20:50 <hhorak> so this is more like a heads-up, we can gather a lot of questions there as s brainstorming and pick some good ones later..
17:21:50 <hhorak> #action all to check and brainstorm at http://piratepad.net/env-and-stacks-users-feedback about what feedback we'd like to get from fedora users, we'll pick some good questions later
17:22:15 <hhorak> #action Council Engineering update
17:23:17 <hhorak> ^ this is also more like a heads-up notice, that this is a great time to submit Changes proposals... so anything worth proposing as a change should go public :)
17:23:56 <hhorak> and my idea about the council update is to go through our changes and read the description :)
17:25:11 <hhorak> walters: are you actually going to propose something ostree related?
17:25:35 <walters> i did submit https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Layered_Docker_Image_Build_Service
17:25:47 <walters> it's going to need more iteration
17:25:50 <phracek> what aoubt first proof of concept for rings? RHEL-8 is approaching.
17:26:11 <hhorak> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Layered_Docker_Image_Build_Service
17:26:40 <hhorak> walters: great, I just didn't see it in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/23/ChangeSet...
17:28:19 <hhorak> walters: is it actually the fedora instance of osbs?
17:28:26 <walters> that's the proposal
17:28:38 <walters> i think it'll be listed in ChangeSet when it's ReadyForWrangler or something?
17:28:59 <hhorak> walters: ah, I see the link to the upstream github now, so great :)
17:29:12 <hhorak> walters: yeah, I think it works like this
17:30:21 <walters> i don't have any Change submission plans for {rpm-,}ostree this cycle, although daemon mode and package layering are two features we'd like to land, I can't guarantee implementation especially the latter
17:30:27 <hhorak> phracek: that's maybe great chance to make some nicer Fedora-dockerfiles (I don't want to point at you alone, it must be collaborative effort; just that it will nicely fit together)
17:31:32 <phracek> phracek: Summit is more or less after me and next week I am going to contact as thozza as Fedora-Docker maintainer with behave testing.
17:31:57 <phracek> It seems that I am going to be a co-maintainer;)
17:32:03 <hhorak> walters: ok, I see..
17:32:09 <phracek> with Fedora-Dockerfiles.
17:33:34 <hhorak> phracek: good, so what about proposing those also as a change? just for making some marketing.. well, just an idea..
17:33:39 <phracek> walters: your LDIMB depends on OSBS?
17:33:44 <walters> yeah
17:34:11 <phracek> hhorak: like Fedora-DockerFiles and behave?
17:34:29 <hhorak> phracek: yes..
17:34:58 <phracek> #action Fedora-DockerFiles and behave to Fedora 23 as ChangeProposal.
17:35:36 <phracek> tommorow I will create a page with this issue.
17:36:23 <sgallagh> phracek: What is changing in Fedora-Dockerfiles?
17:36:50 <phracek> sgallagh: We would like to integrate behave testing framework to it.
17:36:56 <sgallagh> ah
17:37:09 <sgallagh> OK, so nothing directly impacting consumers of it, then
17:37:43 <phracek> sgallagh: Do you find any problems? What is your idea about it?
17:38:39 <phracek> sgallagh: sorry for first question. I wanted to say. Do you think that idea is realistic?
17:38:50 <sgallagh> phracek: What idea?
17:39:11 <phracek> behave in fedora-DockerFiles.
17:39:19 <sgallagh> I've been working with Fedora-Dockerfiles on Server Roles this week. I just wanted to make sure they weren't going to see a major rewrite or something
17:39:56 <sgallagh> phracek: I don't have an opinion on that (I'm not familiar with behave)
17:40:10 <phracek> Of course not.
17:40:37 <phracek> But we would like to have set of tests before some dramatic change.
17:41:05 <phracek> Of course is some dramatic change is needed.
17:41:24 <phracek> s/is/if/g
17:41:55 <sgallagh> Anyway, sorry for derailing. Please move on
17:42:18 <hhorak> sgallagh: from my PoV the dockerfiles in Fedora are quite simple.. and what we've learned during some kind of collaboration on openshift's dockerfiles, there may be much more done..
17:42:26 <hhorak> like compare https://github.com/openshift/sti-ruby/ and https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles/blob/master/ruby/Dockerfile
17:42:59 <phracek> sorry guys after a 5 minutes I have to leave:(
17:43:20 <hhorak> that's my PoV where we can improve the fedora dockerfiles.. that was actually why I proposed to to be it a change...
17:44:37 <hhorak> sgallagh: I'm actually wondering what the potential changes would mean for the server roles -- are there any features in the dockerfiles that server roles already depend on?
17:44:56 <hhorak> (I expect we'll speak mostly about daemon dockerfiles, right?)
17:45:20 <sgallagh> hhorak: None yet. I'm in the investigation phase.
17:45:21 <phracek> bye.
17:45:59 <sgallagh> hhorak: One thing I'd like to see is a mechanism for automatically flattening images, though
17:46:16 <sgallagh> Grabbing the base image and applying updates results in an unnecessarily huge image
17:47:03 <hhorak> sgallagh: I came to conclusion that might be one of the goals of the cct project (https://github.com/containers-tools/cct)
17:47:06 <hhorak> #link https://github.com/containers-tools/cct
17:47:15 <sgallagh> ack
17:47:31 <hhorak> sgallagh: basically all the changes done in one step in the dockerfile
17:48:01 <sgallagh> ok
17:48:19 <hhorak> btw. the osbs provides squashing, so it shouldn't be any issue if we start using that system
17:50:08 <hhorak> all right, let's move on...
17:50:33 <hhorak> #topic RHSCL Docker images compatibility with Fedora/Atomic use cases
17:51:42 <hhorak> sgallagh: actually do you have any special requirements for the docker images from the server role PoV?
17:52:03 <hhorak> (well, I didn't move too far :) )
17:52:05 <sgallagh> hhorak: Nothing beyond the usual "squeeze it down as small as possible)
17:54:12 <hhorak> sgallagh: ok, if anything else shows up (related to configuration, initialization in case of databases, ...) just let us know.. we'd like to keep the api of the images the same for fedora, software collections, rhel...
17:54:32 <sgallagh> ok
17:56:11 <hhorak> walters: I wanted to ask a similar question from atomic project PoV, but I'm not sure if you're involved in the layered-image-specification part much... basically what expectations the atomic project put on the docker images.. (I know about labels INSTALL, START, ...)
17:56:51 <hhorak> so if there happen to be anything else..
17:59:04 <hhorak> well, maybe better to read the doc at http://www.projectatomic.io/docs/ carefully and then more under the project itself..
17:59:12 <hhorak> #link http://www.projectatomic.io/docs/
17:59:39 <hhorak> so let's close it with that plan ^ :)
17:59:45 <hhorak> #topic open floor
17:59:55 <hhorak> (timeout 3 minutes)
18:02:14 <walters> hhorak, back sorry.  This is currently under https://github.com/projectatomic/ContainerApplicationGenericLabels
18:02:55 <hhorak> walters: ah, thanks..
18:03:01 <hhorak> #link https://github.com/projectatomic/ContainerApplicationGenericLabels
18:03:33 <hhorak> walters: so if I understand it, that is something we should implement in the fedora-dockerfiles as well, right?
18:03:54 <walters> there is some of that happening now yeah
18:04:50 <hhorak> walters: ah, already, good..
18:05:42 <hhorak> so, thanks all, closing..
18:05:44 <walters> that effort is moving but it's slow
18:05:56 <walters> we'll have to figure out a plan for versioning
18:06:21 <hhorak> walters: versioning the docker files?
18:06:46 <walters> versioning of the labels spec
18:08:08 <hhorak> walters: ah, that versioning..
18:11:27 <hhorak> so, something like spec_version label, and atomic commands would consider whether they can operate with that image or not?
18:17:38 <hhorak> #endmeeting