17:00:04 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2014-03-10
17:00:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 10 17:00:04 2014 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:04 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:04 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:08 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
17:00:14 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:57 <sesivany> robyduck, yn1v: ping
17:01:15 <yn1v> .fas yn1v
17:01:21 <sesivany> lbazan: ping
17:01:30 <sesivany> masta: ping
17:01:33 * yn1v at work
17:02:05 <masta> sesivany: pong
17:02:17 * masta is here
17:02:47 <masta> was actually an hour early due to TZ change in NA region, lol
17:02:50 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:02:54 <zodbot> yn1v: yn1v 'Neville A. Cross' <yn1v@taygon.com>
17:03:03 <yn1v> I have no pending items on my job. I hope there are no surprises
17:03:34 <masta> .fas parasense
17:03:34 <zodbot> masta: parasense 'Jon Disnard' <jdisnard@gmail.com>
17:04:08 <sesivany> masta: yes, here come the two weeks when the US is already on summer time and Europe isn't. We've got a lot of experience with it in Red Hat :)
17:05:07 <sesivany> ok, let's start.
17:05:21 <sesivany> #topic F21 chair vote
17:05:58 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
17:05:58 <sesivany> masta: please cast your vote, it's particularly important because it's a tie now :)
17:05:58 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
17:06:41 <sesivany> .famsco 361
17:06:41 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/361
17:06:45 <masta> sesivany: yes sir
17:08:13 * masta flips a coin
17:08:16 <yn1v> I am happy that I am not the one to break the tie
17:08:40 <sesivany> it took quite a lot of time this time, we were usually done with it in 15 minutes at the first meeting :)
17:08:56 <masta> Heads jiri, tails Christoph
17:09:43 <masta> it was the head of coin
17:09:48 * masta goes and votes
17:10:44 * yn1v thinking about short Assimov's story "the machine that won the war"
17:10:45 <masta> sesivany: done
17:11:05 <sesivany> damn coin... :-)
17:12:33 <sesivany> not that I don't want to discourage you from candidating next time. But what I've learned in the last year is that the position is just duties and no benefits :)
17:13:03 <masta> once I'm more comfortable with our meetings... I'm happy to chair any time.
17:13:11 <masta> informally
17:13:28 <masta> (somebody is sick, or cannot make it, etc)
17:13:37 <sesivany> now I have to choose a vice chair...
17:14:43 <sesivany> I'm picking tuan. He's from a different region and he's been in FAmSCo for some time already.
17:15:35 <masta> makes sense
17:16:00 <sesivany> #info The FAmSCo chair for F21 term is sesivany. Tuan was picked as a vice chair if he agrees with it.
17:16:24 <sesivany> I will have to ask him, but let's assume for now that he agrees.
17:17:36 <sesivany> anyway, thank you for your votes, not only the ones for me, but also the ones for cwickert.
17:18:11 <sesivany> next thing we have to finish is the meeting time...
17:18:22 <sesivany> #topic Meeting time for F21 term
17:18:36 * sesivany is checking the results...
17:19:10 <yn1v> there is a link for looking at the results?
17:19:39 <sesivany> #link http://whenisgood.net/famsco-meeting/results/fak82p3
17:20:36 <sesivany> There are two times with least collisions: 17 and 19.
17:21:17 <sesivany> I would prefer 17 because 19 is like 1-2am for tuan which is not very comfortable.
17:21:21 * robyduck is sorry to be the one who can't at 16UTC, but I have to travel from dayjob, so I could attend only during summertime (UTC+2 here)
17:22:19 <robyduck> sesivany: it should be 16 and 18 UTC right? The time is converted to your time, tight?
17:22:38 * sesivany is not sure if the time is UTC or his local time...
17:22:56 <sesivany> But I guess it's local time.
17:23:49 <yn1v> default is UTC unless you change to local time
17:24:54 <sesivany> yn1v: is there any way to switch it between UTC and local? I don't see such a thing.
17:25:27 <sesivany> but what I see is local.
17:25:37 <yn1v> I was looking for the same, but apparently we only have the option at the first time.
17:26:08 <robyduck> no, I think the system converts the hours to your local time, so I see 17:00 local time and 19:00, which should be 16 and 18 UTC actually
17:27:18 <sesivany> I see the 16 UTC as the best compromise. robyduck, if you can make it during summer time it's still better than having it at 18 when tuan can't attend at all.
17:27:25 <robyduck> and I also could attend at 17UTC (which is the actual meeting time)
17:27:34 <robyduck> ok, let's do it
17:28:01 <robyduck> we will switch soon, and then we will see
17:28:16 <sesivany> Mon doesn't work for several people while Tue does.
17:28:30 <sesivany> so should we move the meeting to Tue 16pm UTC?
17:28:36 <robyduck> For F22/F23 there will be also new elections...
17:29:01 <robyduck> +1
17:29:15 <yn1v> +1
17:29:24 <sesivany> robyduck: we can always revisit the decision if it turns out not to work.
17:29:39 <sesivany> robyduck: even during this term, no need to wait for new elections.
17:29:45 <sesivany> +1
17:29:57 <sesivany> masta: does it work for you?
17:30:00 <robyduck> yea, don't worry, I will try to get it working in some way
17:30:43 <yn1v> It is works hours for me, but usually I can arrange my work schedule.
17:31:30 * lbazan here
17:31:32 <lbazan> sorry late
17:31:36 <lbazan> .fas lbazan
17:31:37 <zodbot> lbazan: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
17:32:06 <sesivany> yn1v: yeah, I know. aeperezt had to attend the meetings in his work time, too. I think we set the time at 16 UTC for him to have the meeting during lunch break.
17:32:29 <lbazan> +1
17:32:29 <masta> sesivany: the times look good to me
17:32:39 <lbazan> 16UTC?
17:32:47 <lbazan> ok for me
17:32:57 <robyduck> yes tuesday
17:33:19 <lbazan> robyduck: ok
17:33:21 <lbazan> good!
17:33:35 <sesivany> great, we actually did find some time that suits everyone at least a bit.
17:34:08 <sesivany> #info The new FAmSCo meeting time is Tuesday 16:00 UTC.
17:34:08 <yn1v> It will be 10am for me, like a nice long coffee break :-)
17:35:18 <sesivany> yn1v: there is a time difference between Nicaragua and Panama? I travelled through both countries, but don't remember.
17:35:29 <yn1v> Yes, one hour
17:35:35 * masta goes to adjust his calendar
17:35:40 <masta> for new meeting time
17:35:47 <lbazan> :-)
17:36:23 <sesivany> ok, adjust your calendars and let's go finally discuss real problems :)
17:36:35 * lbazan meeting tomorrow (the first) :)
17:36:59 <yn1v> how this works with the meeting channel?
17:37:24 <sesivany> that's a good point.
17:37:56 <lbazan> sesivany: need change meeting time in fedora calendar
17:38:51 <sesivany> there are meetings in #fedora-meeting and -1, but nothing in -2.
17:39:05 <lbazan> sesivany: ok
17:39:20 <yn1v> same channel then
17:39:20 <lbazan> continue in this channel
17:39:30 <lbazan> yn1v: yes!
17:39:31 <tuanta> Sorry, i am late :(
17:39:37 <lbazan> tuanta: ==
17:39:39 <masta> who will update the entry in fedocal?
17:39:49 <robyduck> our vice chair has arrived :)
17:39:52 <lbazan> masta: the owner..
17:39:55 <sesivany> tuanta: welcome, you just became a vice chair ;-)
17:40:40 <tuanta> Huh. I am?
17:40:45 <lbazan> tuanta: :)
17:41:11 <sesivany> masta: I will try if I have rights for it, can't log in Fedocal right now.
17:41:30 <sesivany> #action sesivany to change meeting time in Fedocal.
17:41:36 <tuanta> We are discussing the meeting time?
17:41:53 <lbazan> tuanta: yes
17:42:00 <lbazan> tuanta: tuesday 16UTC
17:42:01 <yn1v> tuanta, meeting changed to TUE 16UTC
17:42:12 <sesivany> tuanta: yes, it's Tue 16:00 UTC, hope it works for you.
17:42:22 <tuanta> Ah, thanks :)
17:42:34 <sesivany> tuanta: we went for the earlier of the two possible times not to keep you awake till the middle of night.
17:42:51 <tuanta> Cooler to me
17:43:30 <sesivany> ok, let's move to another topic.
17:44:17 <sesivany> #topic "Inactive ambassadors" issue
17:44:33 <sesivany> did you read the mail from pingou?
17:44:43 <sesivany> his tool looks promising.
17:45:47 <sesivany> it checks all kinds of online activity, not only logging to FAS.
17:46:36 <yn1v> I saw the numbers he posted as comments on the ticket
17:46:37 <sesivany> he ran it on the ambassadors group of ~600 ambassadors and ~120 were positive.
17:48:41 <yn1v> I feel that I can't make my mind on this topic
17:48:41 <sesivany> that doesn't mean those people should be removed right away. I think they should get an email that they will be flagged as inactive during a regular clearance and if they want to keep the active status they can just log in to FAS or they can always change the inactive status in FAS admin.
17:49:19 <robyduck> yes, I agree
17:49:21 <masta> that sounds good
17:49:32 <yn1v> yes, I agree
17:49:34 <sesivany> I don't find it very invasive and it would give us a tool to remove ambassadors who have left the project forever.
17:49:42 <robyduck> we should also have a fixed timetable to run this script, say once or twice a year
17:50:01 <yn1v> I think that we should add that information as part of the information that new ambassadors get
17:50:16 <sesivany> yn1v: definitely
17:50:18 <robyduck> yn1v: sure
17:50:33 <tuanta> Yes, that sounds good
17:51:13 <sesivany> so we agree this is a way we can go? if so I'll figure out details with pingou before making the final proposal.
17:51:27 <robyduck> sesivany: +1
17:51:45 <masta> would be great to have a result where inactive ambassadors choose to achieve active standing.... resume ambassadorial activities.
17:52:04 <lbazan> +1
17:52:06 <sesivany> I will also write it to the ambassadors mailing list to find out opinions of fellow ambassadors. i think it really helped us in the beginning of the discussion.
17:52:20 <masta> +1
17:52:23 <tuanta> +1
17:53:11 <sesivany> ok, great
17:53:13 <yn1v> what about time frame?
17:53:26 <sesivany> yn1v: good point again
17:53:48 <sesivany> pingou used 730 days
17:54:10 <yn1v> how long a person can be away of auth that he/she will be updated about fedora_land
17:54:11 <sesivany> which I think is appropriate, but we can set a different time frame if we agree on it.
17:54:41 <robyduck> 2 years then, should work also for 547 days (18 month)
17:55:14 <robyduck> we are speaking about *any* loggable activity
17:55:40 <sesivany> I think 2 years is a good time frame. Fedora is a fast-moving project. Being completely out for 2 years is quite a lot.
17:56:37 <yn1v> I like more 547 days because of the fast pace of the project
17:56:56 <robyduck> yn1v: +1
17:57:15 <robyduck> that's what I meant.
17:57:19 <tuanta> +1 for 18 months
17:58:03 <sesivany> I would keep both time frames as options. We'll see what the reaction is. Then we can be more conservative (2 years) or more progressive (18 months).
17:58:04 <yn1v> a release life is about 395 days
17:58:18 <lbazan> +1 18m
17:58:35 <robyduck> maybe we can run it twice a year, so the max timeframe is around 710 days
18:00:06 <tuanta> Why don't we run this script everyday?
18:00:06 <robyduck> this way we will also limit the people we need to send a mail
18:00:21 <sesivany> #info FAmSCo agrees that flagging ambassadors as inactive based on logging online activity is a way we can explore. We will propose it to a broader discussion and figure out details with fedora infra.
18:00:23 <yn1v> thinking in release cycles ... 18 months is F17 and 2 years is F16
18:01:27 <robyduck> yn1v: good point
18:01:28 <yn1v> but probably it will be better, to open discussion with both options in mind
18:01:36 <tuanta> How long does it take to check a who
18:01:37 <tuanta> How long does it take to check once
18:01:52 <sesivany> #info ambassadors should be informed after 18 months of online inactivity. The time frame is still a subject of discussion.
18:02:41 <sesivany> #action sesivany to contact pingou and figure out details with him. For example how often the script can be run.
18:02:43 <yn1v> I have to leave right now :-(
18:03:05 <yn1v> I will catch up with logs
18:03:12 <yn1v> bye
18:03:16 <robyduck> see you
18:03:17 <sesivany> yn1v: yes, we're past one hour of meeting time. I think it's time to finish.
18:03:21 <tuanta> See you next times, yn1v
18:03:38 <sesivany> do we have anything else to discuss?
18:04:26 <robyduck> not from me
18:04:38 <sesivany> if not, let's end the meeting.
18:04:54 <tuanta> Yes, time is up
18:05:00 <sesivany> don't forget, the next meeting will be on Tue 16 UTC ;)
18:05:19 <tuanta> It's easier for me next times :)
18:05:24 <sesivany> tuanta: btw are you ok with becoming a vice-chair?
18:05:28 <lbazan> sesivany: tomorrow?
18:05:30 <lbazan> :)
18:05:54 <sesivany> lbazan: I would wait for the next week :)
18:06:00 * lbazan xD
18:06:09 <sesivany> March 18th to be precise :)
18:06:10 <tuanta> sesivany: yes, I am can do
18:06:19 <sesivany> tuanta: great
18:06:56 <tuanta> s/I can do
18:07:09 <sesivany> meet you next week!
18:07:09 <sesivany> #endmeeting