17:00:18 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-09-09
17:00:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep  9 17:00:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:20 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:20 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:25 <sesivany> #topic Roll call
17:00:33 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:34 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:00:37 <LoKoMurdoK> .fas lbazan
17:00:37 <zodbot> LoKoMurdoK: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
17:00:43 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:00:43 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:00:45 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:00:46 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:00:58 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
17:01:02 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
17:03:01 * sesivany pinged cwickert, we'll see if he's going to show up.
17:03:24 * cwickert is here
17:03:26 <sesivany> tuanta: any news about bckurera? he hasn't been active for a loooong time.
17:03:28 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:03:30 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:03:48 <tuanta> sesivany: I have nothing, sorry :(
17:03:56 <cwickert> I think we should consider replacing him
17:04:05 <sesivany> cwickert: I agree
17:04:08 <cwickert> let's give somebody else a chance
17:04:25 <sesivany> he hasn't attended a meeting or written to the mailing list for at least 3 months.
17:04:25 <cwickert> how far away are elections?
17:04:43 <sesivany> cwickert: 2-3 months?
17:04:48 <sesivany> I don't know exactly.
17:04:49 <tuanta> should we have a vote now?
17:05:06 <tuanta> even over 3 months, I think
17:05:06 <sesivany> tuanta: no, let me contact him first.
17:05:11 <cwickert> right
17:05:21 <tuanta> right
17:05:22 <cwickert> the process is outlined at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules#Filling_Vacant_Seats
17:05:39 <cwickert> "In the event of repeated absence without contact, or other serious  misconduct or negligence, a FAmSCo member may be subject to removal.  Before any other process occurs, the FAmSCo member in question will be  personally contacted by the FAmSCo Chair to try to resolve the  situation. If this contact does not successfully resolve the situation,  the FAmSCo member in question may be removed by unanimous vote of the  other members of FAmSCo. Any re
17:06:16 <sesivany> #action sesivany to contact bckurera and remind him his FAmSCo duties. If he doesn't respond, FAmSCo will vote about replacing him.
17:06:25 <cwickert> that means we could either ask an uprunner from the F18 elections or just anybody
17:06:54 <sesivany> cwickert: ok, let me contact him first and we can get back to this topic at the next meeting.
17:07:06 <cwickert> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2012-December/003127.html
17:07:11 <cwickert> that would be Elad then
17:07:23 <cwickert> and I think he is a VERY good candidate
17:07:26 <sesivany> Elad would be a good help.
17:07:32 <robyduck> what about asking NA to have member?
17:07:49 <cwickert> yeah, elad or somebody from the US
17:07:53 <cwickert> erm, NA
17:08:02 <cwickert> ok, lets all think about this for a week
17:08:08 <robyduck> +1
17:08:10 <sesivany> yeah, but it's the next step, let's wait with that.
17:08:24 <tuanta> ask bckurera first, then +1 for a NA member
17:08:46 <LoKoMurdoK> tuanta: +1
17:09:16 <sesivany> ok, let's start with the first topic, shall we?
17:09:40 <tuanta> yeah :)
17:09:48 <sesivany> #topic FAmA situation
17:09:49 <LoKoMurdoK> ok!
17:09:56 <sesivany> I'm glad to have tuanta here.
17:10:18 <sesivany> tuanta: did you receive credentials to do the admin role?
17:10:46 <tuanta> yes, sesivany
17:11:02 <cwickert> sesivany: do you have the passwords?
17:11:08 <cwickert> for the mailing list I mean
17:11:14 <cwickert> erm, sorry
17:11:22 <cwickert> tuanta: do you have the pw?
17:11:34 <tuanta> yes, cwickert
17:11:57 <cwickert> ok
17:12:01 <sesivany> cwickert: no, I somehow fucked up my PGP key and had to revoke it, then I couldn't decode kital's mail. We'll have to get back to it soon.
17:12:26 <tuanta> I have started working on Ambassadors mailing list recent days
17:12:26 <cwickert> for some reason, I cannot send encrypted messages either
17:12:47 <sesivany> but if tuanta has it, then it's ok. I should work just as a backup.
17:12:55 * cwickert has it, too
17:13:06 <tuanta> good to hear that
17:13:19 <cwickert> sesivany: I can send it as encrypted plaintext, I guess my problem is in evolution
17:13:41 <cwickert> btw: I have spoken with kital and cleared the situation
17:13:49 <sesivany> cwickert: the same with me, I couldn't decode it in Evo.
17:13:52 <cwickert> he was unhappy that nobody took care of the list
17:14:05 <cwickert> but it turned out that he is not angry with us or tuanta
17:14:15 <cwickert> but simply the handover did not work well
17:14:23 <cwickert> now everything is fine, thanks tuanta
17:14:54 <tuanta> I just started receiving notifications from Ambassadors list for about a week
17:15:06 <sesivany> cwickert: it's definitely partly my fault because I didn't receive the credentials in the end and didn't let him know because I was too busy with other things such as guadec at the time.
17:15:31 <tuanta> good to hear that it's fine now :)
17:15:40 <cwickert> I think it was herlo's fault, but anyway, let's not point fingers
17:16:10 <sesivany> tuanta: what about the process? Is it working or should we streamline it even more?
17:16:32 <sesivany> I mean to give mentors rights to do the whole process.
17:17:03 <tuanta> I support the idea to grant more rights to mentors
17:17:26 <tuanta> they should have *sponsor* right
17:17:32 <robyduck> yes sesivany I think this would help tuanta, because mentors could take over part of his work
17:17:59 <tuanta> then close the ticket(s) themselves
17:18:17 <sesivany> tuanta: so what would be the process then? mentors would create the ticket, then close it and give the candidate membership in FAS?
17:18:52 * tuanta looking up
17:19:20 <robyduck> yes, also mentors should 'clean up' people they don't hear any more
17:19:55 <robyduck> and after sponsoring them and adding them to the FAS group, notify tuanta for his welcome mail
17:20:12 <tuanta> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/famsco/2013-July/001383.html
17:20:38 <robyduck> so every new ambassador gets his welcome message as in the past, and we avoid dozens of introduction mails on the ML
17:21:09 <tuanta> yes
17:21:52 <tuanta> also, herlo asked me to send a welcome message to all recent ambassadors (from March until now)
17:22:17 <sesivany> robyduck: what do you mean? how to avoid mails on the ml? Where do you want to send them?
17:22:17 <tuanta> actually, I could not find a free time slot to do that
17:22:52 <robyduck> sesivany: I see a lot of introduction mails in the last month
17:23:38 <tuanta> sesivany: in the past, we had got a welcome message (per month, IIRC) for all new ambassadors sent to Ambassadors list
17:23:45 <robyduck> in the past we had the weekly/monthly welcome message from herlo to the ML in which he welcomed all the new ambassadors writing their names
17:23:59 <robyduck> oh sorry tuanta
17:24:06 <tuanta> :)
17:24:13 <sesivany> I did find the idea of monthly introduction mails a good one.
17:24:31 <sesivany> because I could at least track who's becoming an ambassador.
17:24:59 <aeperezt> sesivany, +1
17:25:03 <robyduck> sesivany: it's nothing new, it's just recall a good idea we had in the past and that worked fine
17:25:10 <aeperezt> sesivany, I like weekly
17:25:29 <aeperezt> montly is seems kind of slow
17:25:32 <sesivany> aeperezt: yeah, it depends on how many newcomers we have.
17:25:35 <aeperezt> but it works too
17:26:01 <robyduck> aeperezt: it shouldn't be fixed, tuanta should send out a mail once he has 5-6 new ambassadors, so it could be every 2-3 weeks
17:26:09 <sesivany> tuanta: blog is also a good way to inform about new ambassadors. I liked it even more than messages to the ml.
17:26:11 <tuanta> we have missed this kind of welcome messages since March 2013
17:27:09 <robyduck> what about running a query on the ambassadors FAS group of who get sponsored after march 2013?
17:27:15 <tuanta> sesivany: blogging it? on my personal blog? (also add to Planet)
17:27:50 <tuanta> robyduck: that's the thing herlo asked me
17:27:54 <sesivany> tuanta: the key point is to get it to the planet, so if your personal blog is on the Planet, just blog it there.
17:28:10 <aeperezt> robyduck, I like that idea better
17:28:20 <robyduck> nice
17:29:01 <tuanta> yes, my blog has been already added to planet for a long time
17:30:26 <sesivany> tuanta regarding the changes to the FAmA process, can you please prepare exact changes we can vote about and which would be patched to the existing process guidelines?
17:31:03 <tuanta> yes, sesivany, please mark an action to me
17:31:33 <tuanta> regards to welcome new ambassadors, I think, firstly, I will try to find out all new ambassadors since March and write a new blog post to welcome all of them
17:31:59 <tuanta> then do that monthly
17:32:22 <robyduck> sesivany: we should vote about 'making mentors sponsors'
17:32:33 <sesivany> #action tuanta to prepare mentorship change proposition FAmSCo can vote about.
17:32:39 <robyduck> which inckude also a wiki update
17:33:49 <sesivany> robyduck: yes, but before we do, I'd like to have the changes (exact wording) layed down to make sure we're all on the same page before voting.
17:34:19 <robyduck> sesivany: sure, agree
17:35:04 <tuanta> I will prepare it and send to FAmSCo list before that next meeting
17:35:20 <tuanta> then we can vote for it there
17:35:24 <sesivany> ok, I've got one more thing that is related to this topic.
17:35:49 <sesivany> that's something we discussed at Flock.
17:35:58 <sesivany> removing inactive ambassadors.
17:36:31 <sesivany> after the discussion, I support the idea. We just need to find a good solution to this.
17:36:58 <sesivany> I've asked Patrick from the infra team to run a set of queries, but no response from him since then.
17:38:00 <sesivany> I'd like to find out if a criteria "The ambassadors hasn't logged into FAS for 1/2/... years" matches the list of actually inactive ambassadors.
17:38:17 <sesivany> are inactive ambassadors a big problem in your regions?
17:38:30 <sesivany> in EMEA, it's not so bad.
17:38:47 <sesivany> aeperezt, LoKoMurdoK: what about LATAM?
17:38:51 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: I think 1 years is good criteria
17:40:23 <sesivany> tuanta: what about APAC?
17:40:37 <tuanta> how often do we need to change our FAS password?
17:41:02 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes in latam we have a big issue with inactive amabassadors
17:41:22 <LoKoMurdoK> tuanta: 90 days? 3 months?
17:42:15 <robyduck> tuanta: I didn't change my passw for a very long time (more than a year). So I'm +1 with doing a query on the *FAS login*
17:42:22 <sesivany> tuanta: I don't think there is any regularity. I haven't changed my password since last time the infra team forced us to change.
17:42:36 <LoKoMurdoK> tuanta: this is not mandatory
17:42:52 <tuanta> ok, I remember
17:43:13 <tuanta> so, login criteria should be the best choice
17:44:03 <aeperezt> tuanta, +1
17:44:24 <sesivany> tuanta: let me ask Patrick one more time.
17:44:50 <tuanta> do you think someone does not need to log into FAS account but he/she still active?
17:45:12 <sesivany> #action sesivany to ask the infra team to run a set of queries on the list of ambassadors
17:45:18 <tuanta> I meant he/she can do some others: mailing list, IRC, etc.
17:45:23 <sesivany> tuanta: no, I don't think it's possible.
17:46:11 <sesivany> if someone doesn't log into FAS, it means he/she doesn't file bugs, edit wiki, visit tracs. Such a person is not really active as ambassadors should be.
17:46:59 <robyduck> sesivany: +1
17:47:49 <tuanta> we may have some exceptions. but in most cases, it's correct, sesivany
17:48:12 <sesivany> ok, we can't do much about until we have the results of the queries, let's move on.
17:48:22 <tuanta> +1
17:48:31 <sesivany> #topic Quarterly Budget Meeting
17:48:51 <sesivany> hi, I'd like to hold a quarterly budget meeting at the next FAmSCo meeting.
17:49:34 <sesivany> if you're a regional treasurer, please try to close as many expenses in Q2 in your region as possible.
17:49:48 <tuanta> I am collecting APAC data. Hope it will be ready at that time.
17:50:02 <sesivany> I've sent a message to rsuehle, but hasn't received any answer yet.
17:50:51 <sesivany> EMEA budget is almost closed for Q2 (we're missing one small expense).
17:50:55 <sesivany> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EMEA/Budget
17:51:04 <tuanta> at this moment, we have got a problem in reimbursement. kital seems too busy to do it for APAC. a lot of pending tickets.
17:51:49 <tuanta> while appointing a dedicated CC holder for APAC is on the way
17:52:04 <sesivany> tuanta: any progress there?
17:52:21 <cwickert> !
17:52:29 * cwickert needs to add another one
17:52:37 <cwickert> but it's just 57 EUR
17:52:43 <cwickert> release party Berlin
17:52:52 <cwickert> eof
17:53:07 <tuanta> kushal approved to take this responsibility. but he needs to ask his boss
17:53:45 <tuanta> I am waiting for his confirmation
17:53:49 <sesivany> cwickert: ok, please file a ticket to ask for reimbursement. I'll add it to the budget.
17:54:43 <cwickert> ok
17:55:47 <sesivany> what we need to figure out at the meeting is if we have any unspent funds. We only have two quarters to spend our budget and if someone has problems to spend money allocated to him, we can redistribute them or plan other activities.
17:57:49 <sesivany> #info Quarterly Budget Meeting will take place at the next FAmSCo meeting on Mon Sept 16th. All regional treasurers should attend, the FP budget owner invited.
17:58:33 <sesivany> #action regional treasurers to make regional budgets as accurate and up-to-date as possible for the meeting.
17:58:58 <sesivany> anything else you want to discuss today?
17:59:29 <sesivany> #topic Openfloor
18:00:08 <robyduck> sesivany: we have the ambassador map running locally (finally)
18:00:21 <robyduck> but it's not easy to deploy
18:00:33 <sesivany> robyduck: **thumbs up**
18:00:52 <robyduck> now we have to find the right way to make openshift happy too :)
18:01:34 <sesivany> robyduck: I can hook you up with some openshift devels if you need advice.
18:01:37 <tuanta> robyduck: you are talking about this page: http://fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ambassadors.html ?
18:02:25 <robyduck> tuanta: no, about the mozilla repo
18:02:41 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: the airline tickets have been purchased. (FUDCon)
18:02:45 <robyduck> sesivany: ok thanks
18:03:19 <sesivany> LoKoMurdoK: what about the local expenses that need to be paid in cash?
18:03:22 <robyduck> let's first see what we effectively need (their code is really crappy)
18:04:09 <robyduck> sesivany: oh, another question: should we define a FAD better for all regions? I saw some confusion on the ML for APAC
18:04:57 <tuanta> ah, yes. thanks robyduck for raising it up
18:05:14 <sesivany> robyduck: what problem is it exactly?
18:05:41 <tuanta> experience from EMEA is important
18:05:54 <robyduck> sesivany: about what a FAD is really for
18:06:01 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: some problems with it money robyn can explain it more better
18:06:46 <robyduck> regions like APAC never did one, so I wondered if we should define it better on the wiki or give some inputs
18:07:12 <sesivany> robyduck: you mean what countries belong to the region?
18:07:22 <robyduck> no
18:07:49 <robyduck> starting from the budget, what whould be discussed, why, planning, who participate etc...
18:08:21 <tuanta> robyduck: are you talking about Fedora Ambassadors Day like EMEA did last year?
18:08:48 <tuanta> and you are also planning for this year
18:09:24 <robyduck> tuanta: yes, we had it regularly for the last years
18:09:30 <sesivany> robyduck: oh I see
18:10:29 <sesivany> I think a FAD should be defined by a goal. We want to get together because we want to work on this, solve this,...
18:10:36 <robyduck> sesivany: do you have an idea?
18:10:38 <robyduck> oh..
18:10:54 <sesivany> it shouldn't be: we want to get together to promote Fedora. That's not a FAD is for.
18:12:03 <sesivany> e.g. the EMEA FAD. We want to get together to plan and brainstorm what to do next year, the outcome (goal) should be plans of activities, list of events, most ultimately the budget.
18:12:37 <tuanta> sesivany: should EMEA final draft plan be ready before EMEA FAD?
18:13:01 <tuanta> or you will start discussing on it in FAD?
18:13:19 <sesivany> tuanta: we'll start discussing it there.
18:13:29 <tuanta> ah ha
18:13:33 <tuanta> that's the point
18:13:55 <tuanta> so one of the main goals should be making that plan
18:14:00 <sesivany> ambassadors might get some particular homework to do before the event such as "think about events in your region we can take part in" etc.
18:14:11 <sesivany> tuanta: yes
18:14:40 <tuanta> understood
18:14:56 <tuanta> another question:
18:15:25 <tuanta> how much is its budget in total?
18:15:40 <tuanta> any limits?
18:16:07 <tuanta> e.g. how about EMEA FADs (last year and this year)
18:16:50 <sesivany> tuanta: it depends, you have to ask Robyn and Ruth. FADs are a separate budget and it depends on the situation there.
18:17:04 <sesivany> they are the only persons to tell you.
18:17:35 <tuanta> how much did you spent for EMEA FAD last year?
18:17:50 <tuanta> and how much are you planning for this year FAD?
18:17:57 <tuanta> in total
18:18:08 <cwickert> I don't have an idea
18:18:14 <sesivany> I think the last year's EMEA FAD was around $2000, but I can't tell exactly because I was neither the event owner, nor a budget owner. I was just an ordinary participant.
18:18:15 <cwickert> but not much
18:18:25 <cwickert> I think it was even less
18:18:49 <tuanta> how many participants last year?
18:19:14 <sesivany> 7-8?
18:19:31 <sesivany> a lot of people cancelled last year.
18:19:51 <tuanta> thanks, it makes sense to me
18:19:53 <sesivany> we planned to have at least 12 people there, the list for this year already has 15 ppl.
18:20:11 <cwickert> well history tells a lot of people won't come
18:20:32 <sesivany> but it really depends on the budget. here in Europe, it's not so expensive to move people around :)
18:20:45 <tuanta> yes, I see :)
18:20:48 <cwickert> indeed
18:20:57 <tuanta> it may be different in APAC :(
18:20:57 <cwickert> I paid 50 Eur for my flight
18:21:31 <tuanta> btw, I will have a trip to Europe on 15th of October
18:21:53 <tuanta> hope to have a meeting with cwickert on 16th or 17th in Berlin :)
18:22:06 <sesivany> cwickert: I tried to sign up people differently this time. First the signing-up started much later (last year it was at least 6 months before the event), second I approached most of the people directly and talked to them, so I think the cancellation rate won't be so bad as the last year.
18:23:14 * sesivany will have to leave soon...
18:23:31 <sesivany> do we have anything else important to discuss?
18:23:38 <sesivany> or can I end the meeting?
18:24:00 <robyduck> let's end for today
18:24:12 <tuanta> I think it's enough today too
18:24:37 <sesivany> ok, thank you for coming today and meet you next week. Don't forget it's the quarterly budget meeting ;-)
18:25:05 <sesivany> #endmeeting