17:00:59 <cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-12-17
17:00:59 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 17 17:00:59 2012 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:59 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:10 <cwickert> #meetingname famsco
17:01:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:01:21 <cwickert> #topic Roll call
17:01:26 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:01:28 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:01:28 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:01:30 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:01:30 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:01:32 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:01:34 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:01:37 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:01:57 <bckurera> .fas bckurera
17:01:58 <zodbot> bckurera: bckurera 'Buddhika Kurera' <bckurera@gmail.com>
17:02:09 <cwickert> #info nb sents regrets, he's at the dentist (good luck ;))
17:02:24 <cwickert> ping herlo
17:02:32 <herlo> cwickert: I'm here
17:02:36 <cwickert> cool
17:02:44 <herlo> .fas herlo
17:02:45 <zodbot> herlo: herlo 'Clint Savage' <herlo1@gmail.com>
17:03:11 <cwickert> #info present: aeperezt, bckurera, cwickert, herlo, sesivany and tuanta
17:03:26 <tuanta> cool
17:03:31 <cwickert> ok, let's start
17:03:43 <cwickert> Welcome everybody to the new FAmSCo
17:03:58 <cwickert> no time to rest, we have a lot of work to do
17:04:12 <herlo> :)
17:04:12 <cwickert> given that there are holidays and then the F18 release
17:04:17 * cwickert knocks on wood
17:04:23 <cwickert> let's get started
17:04:29 <herlo> and FUDCon NA
17:04:38 <cwickert> the agenda for this meeting can be found at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
17:04:49 <cwickert> #topic Announcements
17:05:15 <cwickert> Last weekend we met at Rheinfelden for the FAD EMEA 2012
17:05:41 <cwickert> where "FAD" still had the old meaning of "Fedora Ambassadors Day"
17:05:49 <sesivany> cwickert: we talked about it a bit last time.
17:06:03 <cwickert> this is traditionally the event, where we do all the planning for the next year for the EMEA region
17:06:12 <cwickert> you can find our results at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:FAD_EMEA_2012
17:07:16 <cwickert> one thing we should probably talk about is the idea of the ambassadors census
17:07:41 <cwickert> should I file a ticket for that, sesivany?
17:08:15 <sesivany> cwickert: do you want to make it a global effort?
17:08:18 <herlo> cwickert: we did discuss that idea. I think it was decided that the idea had merit.
17:08:18 <tuanta> I see that kind of FAD should be held in other regions as well (it's not available in APAC until now)
17:08:21 <sesivany> cwickert: or just EMEA?
17:08:48 <sesivany> cwickert: I think it's worth doing in other regions, too.
17:08:49 <herlo> tuanta: NA is holding FADNA right before FUDCon in January. Same idea as FAD EMEA
17:09:03 <tuanta> yes, I see
17:09:04 <herlo> sesivany: I think we should probably leave that up to the other regions.
17:09:15 <herlo> but I like suggesting it to them as a recommendation
17:09:44 <tuanta> +1 herlo
17:10:13 <tuanta> we will discuss about this in APAC meeting this week
17:10:14 <sesivany> herlo: that's a good idea, such FADs could be organized right before or after FUDCon because that's when we have most ambassadors at one place.
17:12:15 <cwickert> sorry, on the phone
17:12:29 <herlo> sesivany: yes. I think it was originally planned for November of this year.
17:12:58 <herlo> any other announcements?
17:13:24 <sesivany> herlo: I've got one kinda announcement.
17:14:23 <sesivany> at the FAD, we agreed that some ambassador's guide would be welcome. I started working on something, but stopped after a while because it had low priority...
17:14:33 <sesivany> now I brought it up again.
17:14:45 <sesivany> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Eischmann/AmbHelp
17:15:21 <herlo> hmm, I like this, though I've seen something similar in the past. Kind of wonder where now...
17:15:38 <sesivany> it should summarize all activities ambassadors can do to promote Fedora and it should tell them best practises, point them to right directions etc.
17:16:05 <herlo> sesivany: for sure. Probably should be linked from several places on the wiki.
17:16:18 <sesivany> it's just in early stages, but I'd appreciate some feedback. what to include etc.
17:17:17 <bckurera> sesivany,  i ll go through this and send you feedback
17:17:32 <herlo> sesivany: I think we all could help that effort. If you don't mind too, make sure to search the wiki for previous attempts at this. I swear I saw it somewhere.
17:17:35 <sesivany> btw Ubuntu started working on Ubuntu Advocacy Kit, this is very similar from what I have seen.
17:17:50 <aeperezt> sesivany, I will review it and send you feedback
17:18:22 <sesivany> herlo: yes, I'm trying to link to pages that already exist instead of writing it again.
17:18:51 <sesivany> herlo: in this effort, I even updated several of them because they're usually very outdated.
17:19:08 <herlo> sesivany: rocking
17:20:05 <sesivany> speaking of feedback, aeperezt, we promised you some feedback at the last meeting, didn't we?
17:20:14 <aeperezt> sesivany, right
17:20:54 <aeperezt> sesivany, but we can have at the end of today meetings if we have some other priorities
17:20:54 <sesivany> aeperezt: can you repeat it for those who weren't here last time?
17:20:56 * herlo notes we're still in announcements
17:21:03 <sesivany> aeperezt: ok, no prob
17:21:29 <herlo> should we move on to tickets? Or are there other announcements?
17:21:48 <sesivany> herlo: let's move on
17:22:07 <herlo> #topic tickets - https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
17:22:32 <herlo> um, zodbot?
17:22:56 <herlo> weird, let's move on to the tickets anyway.
17:23:11 <herlo> anyone have one they'd like to start with?
17:23:11 <sesivany> herlo: it probably doesn't like links in topic names.
17:23:25 <tuanta> herlo: seems you are not meeting chair. we need to wait for cwickert
17:23:27 <herlo> sesivany: ahh, probably
17:23:33 <herlo> tuanta: I am meeting chair
17:23:40 <herlo> #topic tickets
17:23:53 <herlo> oh, no I'm not
17:24:01 <tuanta> :)
17:24:05 * herlo read present as #chairs
17:24:11 * herlo pings cwickert
17:24:12 <cwickert> #chair herlo
17:24:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert herlo
17:24:18 <tuanta> yes
17:24:20 <cwickert> #chair tuanta sesivany
17:24:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert herlo sesivany tuanta
17:24:20 <herlo> #topic tickets - https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
17:24:29 <tuanta> cool
17:24:38 <cwickert> #chair aeperezt
17:24:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert herlo sesivany tuanta
17:24:49 <herlo> #chair bckurera
17:24:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt bckurera cwickert herlo sesivany tuanta
17:24:59 <herlo> that's everyone I think
17:25:13 <tuanta> herlo: yes
17:25:27 <herlo> let's try this again. anyone have one they'd like to start with?
17:26:55 <cwickert> re
17:27:11 <herlo> how about #338
17:27:14 <herlo> .famsco 338
17:27:14 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/338
17:27:21 <cwickert> #topic Elect new FAmSCo chairperson
17:27:24 <sesivany> yes, that's mine :-)
17:27:26 <cwickert> .famsco 337
17:27:26 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/337
17:27:31 <herlo> or that one
17:27:47 * herlo was waiting for cwickert to return anyway :)
17:28:03 <sesivany> herlo: so, let's do the 338.
17:28:14 <herlo> cwickert: you okay with 338 first?
17:28:21 <herlo> it should be easy
17:28:32 <bckurera> +1 338 first
17:28:47 <herlo> #topic Ticket #338 (F18 media production for EMEA)
17:28:55 <herlo> k, I approve this ticket
17:28:57 <cwickert> dammit, my boss is nagging me
17:29:09 <herlo> cwickert: you are fine. we'll help where we can
17:29:23 <cwickert> let's elect the FAmSCo chair
17:29:35 <cwickert> I think this should always be the very first thing for a new FAmSCo
17:29:47 <cwickert> suggestions?
17:29:55 <tuanta> +1 cwickert
17:30:04 <aeperezt> +1 sesivany
17:30:06 * herlo doesn't care. cwickert you are the current chair.
17:30:18 * herlo goes with cwickert since he's leading this meeting :)
17:30:38 * cwickert doesn't understand tuanta and aeperezt
17:30:40 * sesivany is a bit confused. What topic are we discussing now? :-)
17:30:51 <cwickert> dammit
17:30:53 <herlo> let's let the chair run the meeting
17:31:12 <bckurera> Will elect the chair first
17:31:18 <herlo> cwickert: I apologize for confusing things. You were just not here for a bit
17:31:27 <cwickert> #topic Elect new FAmSCo chairperson
17:31:31 <cwickert> .famsco 337
17:31:31 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/337
17:31:33 <aeperezt> I think it was a suggestion for new fAmSCo chair
17:31:34 <cwickert> suggestions?
17:31:45 <cwickert> aeperezt: so you suggested sesivany?
17:32:00 * herlo thinks bckurera and tuanta make excellent candidates. Assuming they are interested.
17:32:00 <aeperezt> cwickert, yes
17:32:02 <tuanta> yes, I do not see any reasons to change the current chair. So go with cwickert.
17:32:32 * cwickert is willing to continue as FAmSCo chair if people are interested
17:32:40 <cwickert> I should have more time now again
17:32:56 <herlo> tuanta: Unfortunately, I do. Not that cwickert hasn't been a good leader, but lately he's been pulled away a lot. I'm not saying it will continue, but it also might be good to have someone new.
17:32:58 <cwickert> I would also like sesivany
17:33:14 <bckurera> cwickert,  if you have time then goood if you runit, thanks herlo
17:33:39 <aeperezt> cwickert, my only worried was your timing on the meetings as in the last period we miss you on many meetings recently
17:33:51 <cwickert> that should be over now
17:34:09 <sesivany> well, I'm willing to be a vice-chair, but if cwickert is the chair, I'd like to see someone from a different region.
17:34:42 <herlo> sesivany: yeah, I'm kind of thinking it'd be good to do that as well. Who is vice and chair should be from different regions...
17:34:43 <sesivany> but we have to make sure that either chair or vicechair are at 90% of all meetings.
17:34:46 <bckurera> I would like to get theresponsibility if needed
17:35:10 * herlo likes that he's not in the list :)
17:35:35 <tuanta> how about herlo, for vice-chair?
17:36:02 * herlo refuses
17:36:06 <cwickert> I think that even if I have been missing a lot of meetings, I still achieved more than many others, but again, it's on you to decide
17:36:17 * aeperezt +1 bckurera
17:36:24 <cwickert> and I still would like to nominate sesivany
17:37:04 <cwickert> so, who do we have now?
17:37:08 <herlo> cwickert: could we do rank voting here? Something like who you'd like 1st 2nd 3rd and so on? Everyone list it. Then the person with the most first place votes gets the chair?
17:37:13 <aeperezt> cwickert, I think we already deside you will continue as chair
17:37:27 <herlo> aeperezt: no, I don't think that was decided
17:37:43 <cwickert> aeperezt: I was not even nominated :)
17:37:57 <aeperezt> herlo, I got that impresion for all that support on cwickert
17:38:07 <cwickert> I just threw my head in the ring, but I think that people should not self-nominate
17:38:14 <herlo> from my recollection, I saw cwickert, sesivany, aeperezt, bckurera as nominated.
17:38:34 <tuanta> so, back to the beginning :). we should start at nomination first
17:38:49 <herlo> tuanta: yep
17:39:14 * cwickert nominates sesivany and herlo, but herlo will refuse anyway
17:39:35 * herlo appreciates the nomination, but refuses chair nomination
17:39:36 <herlo> :)
17:39:50 * herlo nominates aeperezt and bckurera, as long as they accept
17:39:52 * sesivany nominates cwickert... and was going to herlo... but
17:40:22 <bckurera> I would like, thanks herlo
17:40:27 * tuanta nominates cwickert (and herlo, but...)
17:40:27 <cwickert> ok, four candidates then
17:40:37 <herlo> lol
17:40:40 * aeperezt nominates sessivan and bckurera as long as the accept
17:40:46 <cwickert> herlo: how would your range voting work?
17:40:59 <cwickert> 3 votes maximum=
17:41:00 <cwickert> ?
17:41:16 <herlo> cwickert: easy. You count up the 1st place votes, then 2nd then 3rd. Whoever has the most 1st place votes wins
17:41:23 * bckurera nominates sesivany
17:41:29 <herlo> if 1st place votes tie, you go to 2nd place votes
17:41:35 <cwickert> ok then
17:41:39 <herlo> and if those tie, 3rd place votes
17:41:46 <tuanta> ok, come on
17:42:11 <cwickert> herlo: hold on, that does not flx
17:42:12 <cwickert> fly
17:42:18 <herlo> so we have four candidates: cwickert, sesivany, bckurera and aeperezt. Correct?
17:42:26 <herlo> cwickert: why not?
17:42:34 <cwickert> given that one must not vor for oneself
17:42:42 <cwickert> s/vor/for
17:42:42 <herlo> cwickert: you can vote for yourself
17:42:51 <cwickert> in the past, we did not allow this
17:42:53 <herlo> in a regular election you would
17:43:02 <cwickert> well, it was an unwritten rule in FAmSCo elections
17:43:06 <herlo> cwickert: I don't see anything in the rules
17:43:17 <herlo> cwickert: 1st and 2nd then
17:43:23 <cwickert> we once had a tie because all people refused to vote for themselves
17:43:31 <cwickert> and then somebody became chair by accident
17:43:32 <herlo> cwickert: yes, I recall
17:43:52 <tuanta> lol: by accident
17:43:54 <herlo> let's just do 1st and 2nd and you can't vote for yourself. Fair enough?
17:44:06 <cwickert> 1. sesivany, 2. aeperezt
17:44:16 <herlo> 1st: bckurera, 2nd: aeperezt
17:44:17 <sesivany> 1. cwickert, 2. aeperetz
17:44:26 <bckurera> My votes  aeperezt  sesivany
17:44:41 <aeperezt> 1. sesivany 2. bckurera
17:44:50 <tuanta> 1. cwickert, 2. sesivany
17:45:16 <herlo> okay, so it looks like a tie between cwickert and sesivany for 1st, sesivany has more 2nd place votes
17:45:51 <bckurera> That is nice :-)
17:46:23 * herlo congrats sesivany on becoming the new chair :)
17:46:47 * tuanta congrats too
17:46:50 <bckurera> Congrats sesivany
17:46:51 <aeperezt> me congrats sesivany
17:47:26 <sesivany> eh, more responsibility again :)
17:47:29 <herlo> lol
17:47:41 <tuanta> and who is vice chair?
17:47:43 * aeperezt lol
17:47:47 * herlo thanks cwickert for his hard work as chair over the past year(s)
17:47:48 <bckurera> More famsco meetings :-)
17:47:53 <herlo> tuanta: we vote!
17:48:04 <sesivany> do I have to choose one or is he elected also?
17:48:07 <tuanta> ok, come on
17:48:07 <cwickert> herlo: no
17:48:10 <herlo> oh, right, we appoint
17:48:15 <herlo> sesivany: does it
17:48:16 <cwickert> the chair appoints
17:48:47 <cwickert> sesivany: it's on you, please don't appoint me :)
17:48:50 <herlo> lol
17:48:57 <cwickert> because we really should have somebody from another region
17:49:04 <sesivany> cwickert: that's what I was going to do ;-)
17:49:05 * herlo would be okay with vice-chair
17:49:14 <herlo> but you should pick someone else
17:49:18 <herlo> :D
17:49:45 <sesivany> herlo: you were my second choice after cwickert, so it's yours ;)
17:49:54 <cwickert> ok then
17:50:09 <cwickert> herlo: do you accept?
17:50:21 <herlo> okay
17:50:23 <cwickert> #info sesivany is new FAmSCo chair, herlo is vice-chair
17:50:25 <cwickert> hooray
17:50:26 <herlo> I am happy to accept
17:50:31 <cwickert> that was difficult...
17:50:41 <herlo> haha
17:50:45 <bckurera> Congrats both of you
17:50:45 <herlo> always seems to be
17:50:46 * tuanta congrats herlo :)
17:50:50 <cwickert> ok, but at this point I really want to say something
17:50:55 * aeperezt congrats herlo
17:51:12 <cwickert> even though I am happy for people taking over for me
17:51:21 <cwickert> I am disappointed be how meetings have been run
17:51:23 <bckurera> Shall we taj
17:51:30 <cwickert> we have clear instructions for this in the wiki
17:51:40 <cwickert> and hardly anybody followed them
17:51:49 <cwickert> and nobody updated the wiki page
17:52:12 <cwickert> I spend half an hour on that yesterday looking up minutes of meetings I did not attend
17:52:12 * aeperezt cwickert thanks for the great job as a chair
17:52:16 <herlo> cwickert: can you please share the links so we can review them?
17:52:20 <bckurera> Shall we take tickets on theagenda soon
17:52:27 <cwickert> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_meetings
17:52:47 <sesivany> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_meetings
17:52:59 <sesivany> it's worth meeting minutes
17:53:05 <cwickert> yes
17:53:12 <herlo> heh, I didn't even know we were linking to the meeting minutes.
17:53:24 <sesivany> cwickert: I'll certainly study them more and work on it.
17:53:26 * herlo usually just goes to meetbot.fp.o and finds the date of the meeting.
17:53:47 <cwickert> it's very hard to follow FAmSCo's work if we don't have proper minutes
17:54:28 <cwickert> #info please remember to set the right meeting name with "#meetingname famsco" so the meeting logs will end up in FAmSCo's team directory at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/famsco/
17:54:42 <cwickert> but I am glad that now this is no longer my duty :)
17:54:43 <herlo> cwickert: I think you followed these guidelines quite well. We didn't have a vice chair while you were unavailable. It's good to know this information, so thank you. :)
17:55:01 <cwickert> we had one, aeperezt was running several meetings
17:55:13 <herlo> cwickert: dbruno was the vice chair aiui
17:55:24 <sesivany> ok, let's get back to our regular business?
17:55:34 <tuanta> it's not so difficult to follow that guide
17:55:45 <herlo> tuanta: indeed :)
17:55:50 <bckurera> Yes  pls
17:56:17 <sesivany> let's discuss #338
17:56:30 <sesivany> #topic Ticket #338
17:56:41 <sesivany> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/338
17:56:44 * herlo approves the budget for the media
17:56:51 <cwickert> +1
17:56:57 <herlo> sesivany: you can say .famsco 338 :)
17:57:04 <sesivany> I'm not going to vote for it since it's my ticket.
17:57:13 <cwickert> sesivany: come on...
17:57:17 <cwickert> you want media, right?
17:57:19 <sesivany> herlo: yeah, good to know, thanks ;-)
17:57:23 <cwickert> .fasmco 338
17:57:23 <bckurera> +1
17:57:24 <aeperezt> +1
17:57:29 <herlo> lol
17:57:30 <cwickert> .famsco 338
17:57:30 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/338
17:57:42 <cwickert> #agreed ticket #338 is approved
17:57:46 <cwickert> next
17:57:57 <cwickert> #topic Naming FAmSCo seats
17:58:01 <cwickert> .famsco 339
17:58:01 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/339
17:58:23 <cwickert> bckurera: anything from you?
17:58:52 <bckurera> Nope i have noted in the ticcket
17:58:54 * herlo watched this discussion and thought it a good idea. I understand the argument from cwickert and think it's valid, but my little brain can't recall who was voted in already from this past election.
17:59:13 <cwickert> I think we are adding even more red tape and confusion
17:59:29 <cwickert> like, bckurera moved from M6 to N5
17:59:31 <herlo> I am personally for numbering/naming the seats. We could do them as Group A and Group B and simplify it, however.
17:59:33 <bckurera> Open for ideas
17:59:46 <cwickert> does this information add any value? IHMO it just adds confusion
17:59:48 <sesivany> I don't think it's necessary either, but wouldn't bother me.
18:00:06 <herlo> so something like
18:00:12 <cwickert> rule of thumb: if something is not necessary, don't do it ;)
18:00:36 <cwickert> should we just vote?
18:00:45 <tuanta> it's easier to remember the names
18:00:47 <herlo> Group A 'cwickert sesivany herlo nb' Group B 'aeperezt bckurera tuanta' A == Odd releases, B == Even releases
18:01:04 <cwickert> but again, what benefit does it add?
18:01:04 <sesivany> when do we have to know it? just for the elections, right? well, I don't think it's such a problem to look it up once twice a year.
18:01:11 <bckurera> Herlo sounds good too
18:01:16 <herlo> sesivany: that's a good point
18:01:44 * herlo notes as long as it isn't him that has to look it up. We could just delineate it on the famsco page on the wiki. I think I could make it clear.
18:02:10 <sesivany> where do we have this information to be?
18:02:15 <herlo> bckurera: how about we just mark 'which' election the folks were voted in on.
18:02:24 <sesivany> on FAmSCo wiki page?
18:02:29 <herlo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Ambassadors_Steering_Committee
18:02:31 <herlo> sesivany: yes
18:02:33 <cwickert> we add an abstraction layer that we don't need
18:02:47 <cwickert> I mean, we don't even need it in the announcements for the elections
18:02:56 <herlo> cwickert: sure, but it's simple and if you add it now, people will tend to follw the trend
18:02:58 <bckurera> That is ok. But naming seats will easy to track
18:03:25 <cwickert> because there it is better to say "The seats of foo bar baz are open for election" than "Seats M1, M2 and M3 are open for election"
18:03:38 <sesivany> well, noting on that wiki page who was elected when doen't harm anything and I think it doesn even need our approval to do it.
18:03:46 <cwickert> bckurera: what do you want to track? when somebody was elected?
18:04:32 <herlo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_members
18:04:35 <herlo> look at that page
18:04:38 <sesivany> something like: Jiri Eischmann (elected till May 2013), I don't see this as a problem as long as someone is willing to do it.
18:04:51 * herlo updated it with the release when their seats will be up
18:04:51 <bckurera> It is to mention what is open for election and what is not rather mentioning only the name
18:05:07 <cwickert> but does it help the voters?
18:05:10 <herlo> I could make it a table simple enough
18:05:28 <cwickert> for them the number of the seat is less information than the name of the candidate
18:05:36 <herlo> cwickert: I think mostly we just need to make sure that we know 'which seats' are up for election each term.
18:06:04 <cwickert> herlo: usually, the candidates know quite well, and so does the election wrangler
18:06:06 <herlo> is it 4 or is it 3, and who do we replace. It's not going to be too hard with my notation there.
18:06:12 <bckurera> Others know A seats will be vacant in may rather using the names of members
18:06:22 <cwickert> so?
18:06:40 <cwickert> if you are a voter, it doesn't really matter what the seat is named, right?
18:06:50 <cwickert> It matters who is running or in FAmSCo
18:07:30 <cwickert> anyway, I don't want to discuss this too long. We spent way too much time discussing red tape in the last cycle and I would just try us to create less red tape this year
18:07:33 <sesivany> I wouldn't really go with naming like A or B seats, that makes things confusing. Adding a note like Elected till... or (F19) would work for me.
18:07:36 <cwickert> so can we just vote now?
18:07:49 <herlo> I like to know who the seats were held by previously.
18:07:55 <tuanta> that wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_members is a good point. I think it's enough.
18:08:02 <herlo> but I agree that it's names that are more important
18:08:06 <nb> hi
18:08:23 <tuanta> hi nb
18:08:28 <cwickert> hi nb, you survived the dentist! ;)
18:08:37 <bckurera> We are having more time for this
18:08:39 <nb> yes, no cavities :)
18:08:39 <herlo> tuanta: I was thinking of creating a table instead. With headers that explain the columns clearly.
18:08:40 <aeperezt> tuanta, yeap
18:08:45 <herlo> nb: nice!
18:09:03 <sesivany> ok, are we going to vote about this notation: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_members ?
18:09:13 <bckurera> Will finish this ticket soon
18:09:17 <tuanta> herlo: makes sense to me
18:09:22 <sesivany> or are there any other proposals?
18:09:29 <cwickert> counterpropsal: Just add when somebody was elected or how long he is elected to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_members, but don't number seats
18:09:55 <nb> +1 cwickert
18:10:02 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, that sounds better to me +1
18:10:13 <aeperezt> +1
18:10:19 <aeperezt> cwickert, +1
18:10:32 <herlo> +1
18:10:35 <herlo> for cwickert
18:10:47 * herlo is fixing up the wiki now too
18:11:06 <cwickert> thanks
18:11:19 <tuanta> +1 cwickert
18:11:27 <sesivany> cwickert: can you summarize what we just agreed on? for the minutes
18:11:29 <tuanta> how about this section: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Ambassadors_Steering_Committee#Members ?
18:11:29 <bckurera> Ok that is good
18:11:52 <cwickert> #agreed reject numbering seats as suggested in #339, instead add information how long people will serve to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_members
18:12:13 <cwickert> ok, any other tickets?
18:12:38 <cwickert> #topic Discuss Budget Allocation for FY2013
18:12:45 <cwickert> .famsco 279
18:12:45 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/279
18:13:17 <cwickert> We don't need to discuss FY12 any longer, so should we just change the title and use this ticket for FY13?
18:13:27 <sesivany> cwickert: yes
18:13:34 <cwickert> ok
18:13:46 <cwickert> EMEA has calculated 11700 EUR for events
18:14:01 <sesivany> it's right time to to budget planning for FY13. We did it at EMEA FAD.
18:14:09 <cwickert> that is ~15400 USD
18:14:17 <sesivany> hopefully, other regions will follow us ;)
18:14:27 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:FAD_EMEA_2012#Event_budget
18:14:40 <cwickert> what about the other regions?
18:14:41 <tuanta> yes, it's worth to follow EMEA
18:15:01 <tuanta> we will discuss this in next APAC meeting
18:15:04 <cwickert> tuanta, bckurera: can you make sure to try the same for APAC
18:15:12 <cwickert> nb, herlo: same for you but NA?
18:15:16 <herlo> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Ambassadors_Steering_Committee updated with 'commision expirations' for members
18:15:34 <aeperezt> Latam has some bit of that but is not ready yeat
18:15:38 <nb> herlo, do you know where that spreadsheet we had is?
18:15:46 <herlo> cwickert: I've not been to a meeting for a while.
18:15:48 * nb thought NA had some sort of a draft budget that iirc ben was working on
18:15:54 <herlo> nb: I would guess we need to ask jbwillia
18:16:09 * herlo notes that NA will have a budget soonish
18:16:26 <sesivany> cwickert: I'll add budgets for swag and shipping to what we have now.
18:17:17 <sesivany> should we make a deadline for this because tasks without deadlines are kinda useless? what about mid Jan?
18:17:44 <cwickert> #action item: nb and herlo to work out the NA budget, bckurera and nb to do the same for APAC and sesivany and cwickert for EMEA. aeperezt for LATAM
18:18:19 <cwickert> how about revisit this next week and set a fixed deadline in 3 weeks?
18:18:22 <herlo> cwickert: um, no
18:18:33 <tuanta> cwickert: you repeat nb twice :)
18:18:49 <cwickert> #undo
18:18:49 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x274f2910>
18:18:53 * herlo notes that NA budgeting is done by committee at NA meetings. I'm not in charge of the budget, nor do I wish to be.
18:19:17 <cwickert> herlo: I don't care, just who is responsible for adding the numbers to the ticket
18:19:41 <bckurera> Yes we will finalize this soon for apac
18:19:41 <herlo> cwickert: but you just assigned me an action item
18:19:59 <herlo> cwickert: then you removed it, so that is good I guess
18:20:11 <bckurera> I have some numbers so those should be discussed with in the meeting
18:20:26 <cwickert> I meant you add the numbers, I did not assign you the task of making the budget all on your own
18:20:40 <herlo> cwickert: NA has been doing budgeting for many moons. They have their own page for it, I don't need to be assigned to do this.
18:20:40 <cwickert> herlo: does this make sense?
18:20:56 <herlo> cwickert: I understood that from the beginning of your action item
18:21:02 <cwickert> we need to have somebody to add the relevant information to the ticket, that's all
18:21:14 <cwickert> I have no idea how or where NA makes it's budget
18:21:30 <cwickert> but when we have to decide how to divide it up, we need all numbers in once place
18:21:33 <bckurera> In APAC will be based on FYI 2012 spendings and other fixed events
18:21:35 <cwickert> that is the ticket ideally
18:21:50 <cwickert> #info EMEA will need about USD 15400 for events
18:22:11 <bckurera> Tuan will discuss more about this. I ll write you soon
18:22:23 <cwickert> #action cwickert and sesivany to finish the EMEA budget and add it to ticket #279
18:22:27 <tuanta> +1 bckurera
18:22:38 <bckurera> cwickert,  swags?
18:22:59 <cwickert> bckurera: mind to elaborate your question?
18:23:19 <cwickert> #action bckurera and tuanta to draft an APAC budget and add it to ticket #279
18:23:21 <sesivany> bckurera: everything except costs related to FADs and FUDCons
18:23:39 <bckurera> USD 15400 only for events not swags included
18:23:50 <cwickert> yes, I said so
18:24:11 <cwickert> and sesivany and me will add media and swag and then we have a total that we add to the ticket
18:24:16 <cwickert> anything unclear?
18:25:23 * cwickert likes staring at his display when nothing happens...
18:25:47 <bckurera> Nope will finish soon. 30 mins past
18:25:52 <sesivany> cwickert: silence means agreement ;)
18:25:54 <cwickert> ok
18:26:05 <tuanta> sesivany: lol
18:26:05 <cwickert> herlo, nb: who will do this for NA?
18:26:39 <cwickert> aeperezt: I know it is hard for you alone, but can you try to draft something for LATAM?
18:26:45 <nb> cwickert, someone from NA will add the info
18:27:32 <herlo> cwickert: is a wiki link sufficient? I think it should be as that's what NA will likely provide.
18:27:49 <sesivany> cwickert: don't forget we have treasurers/budget wranglers in each region, they are responsible for this, we don't have to assign it.
18:28:00 <herlo> sesivany: right, that's what I was saying earlier.
18:28:03 <aeperezt> cwickert, yes
18:28:10 <cwickert> nb: I don't want "someone", I want a real human being that will be assigned an action item and held responsible ;)
18:28:13 <sesivany> that's why we created such a position .)
18:28:24 <herlo> cwickert: it's not nb or I, however.
18:28:25 <cwickert> #action aeperezt will try to draft a budget got LATAM
18:28:51 <cwickert> #action herlo and nb will make sure budget for NA gets added to ticket #279
18:28:55 <herlo> I think the someone could be 'budget wrantler'
18:28:59 <cwickert> finally a deadline?
18:28:59 <herlo> er wrangler
18:29:18 <cwickert> herlo: who is the wrangler for NA?
18:29:30 <cwickert> in EMEA it's sesivany, in APAC bckurera
18:29:37 <herlo> cwickert: I think it's inode0 or jbwillia
18:29:45 <cwickert> ok, good to know
18:29:46 <herlo> they are the ones working on it
18:29:50 <cwickert> finally a deadline
18:30:02 <cwickert> or should we just revisit this next week?
18:30:40 <sesivany> cwickert: i think it's clear for EMEA, APAC and LATAM.
18:30:55 <cwickert> ok
18:30:55 <sesivany> cwickert: just NA has to figure out who's responsible for that.
18:31:13 <cwickert> for me the question is: when can we come up with numbers?
18:31:16 <sesivany> cwickert: I propose Jan 14th as deadline
18:31:37 <herlo> sesivany: +1
18:31:40 <cwickert> ack
18:32:19 <bckurera> Will revisit next week and sesivany +1
18:32:19 <cwickert> #info January 14th is deadline for ticket #279. All regions to make sure they have submitted their budget by then.
18:32:27 <cwickert> ok
18:32:31 <cwickert> should we stop now?
18:32:53 <tuanta> it's over 1:30 AM here :)
18:33:04 <tuanta> I felt asleep :)
18:33:18 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, let's move on to open floor. We promised aeperezt feedback about FUDCon bits.
18:33:19 <cwickert> ok, lets end this meeting
18:33:31 <cwickert> #topic Open Floor
18:33:32 <aeperezt> sesivany, +1
18:34:05 <sesivany> aeperezt: I read both bids and although I think both are very good, I like the Peruvian more.
18:34:25 <sesivany> aeperezt: mainly because the venue is free which saves a lot of money.
18:34:45 <aeperezt> sesivany, right both are good and that is a good point
18:34:54 <sesivany> aeperezt: and from what I read the university is willing to sponsor the event.
18:35:05 * herlo notes that https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_history is incorrect. I think including the {{FAmSCo_members}} page here is a bad idea. Anyone want to fix it?
18:35:24 <cwickert> herlo: I will
18:35:33 <cwickert> #action cwickert to fix https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_history
18:35:35 <herlo> cwickert: thank you
18:35:43 <aeperezt> any one else comments on the bids
18:35:45 <sesivany> aeperezt: the difference is at least $2000 which means that you can sponsor two more people to go.
18:36:02 <aeperezt> sesivany, right
18:36:03 <herlo> aeperezt: FUDCon LATAM?
18:36:10 <aeperezt> herlo, yes
18:36:13 * cwickert needs to bail out now. sesivany, please continue the meeting, I will take care of sending the meeting minutes and updating the tickets
18:36:18 <mayorgalinux> .fas mayorgalinux
18:36:18 <zodbot> mayorgalinux: mayorgalinux 'Eduardo Mayorga Téllez' <mayorgalinux@gmail.com>
18:36:19 <herlo> aeperezt: remind me the links plz
18:36:34 <herlo> cwickert: thanks! :)
18:36:37 <aeperezt> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Cusco_2013
18:36:48 <aeperezt> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Managua_2013
18:36:59 <herlo> there we go. Thanks aeperezt
18:37:01 * herlo read
18:37:02 <herlo> s
18:37:12 <sesivany> aeperezt: the accommodation seems to be about the same, flight ticket prices also,... but the fact that the university is willing to provide the venue for free and sponsor the event makes a difference.
18:37:13 <aeperezt> bckurera, any coments
18:37:16 <mayorgalinux> I am representing Managua bid
18:38:00 <mayorgalinux> our decision: start sponsors since January
18:38:25 <mayorgalinux> i say, searching for them
18:39:20 <sesivany> mayorgalinux: good to hear that. my opinion is based on what I read in the bids now, if you're going to add sponsors, then it's a different story.
18:39:26 <aeperezt> mayorgalinux, well the decision will take place on January so not sure if it will help your case toa add that information then
18:39:40 <mayorgalinux> we're going to request sponsorship next year because is more convenient for the companies
18:41:21 <sesivany> aeperezt: one more advice: don't rely on provided plane ticket prices much and check it yourself: 1. it changes very frequently, 2. bid teams can be very selective in what to include and what not, we had one conference in Europe, and we were quite surprised about the flight connections to the winning city after it was decided.
18:41:22 <mayorgalinux> i expect we can add 2-5 more sponsors... even we already have 2 confirmed
18:41:58 <aeperezt> sesivany, good point
18:43:42 <sesivany> aeperezt: that was my 2 cents, I don't know much about Fedora communities in LATAM, so I can't give you proper feedback.
18:44:00 <aeperezt> sesivany, thanks
18:44:14 <aeperezt> sesivany, your suggestion are noted
18:44:26 <sesivany> mayorgalinux: note that neither me nor FAmSCo will make the decision, aeperezt just asked us for feedback.
18:44:34 <aeperezt> any one else I don't want any one up for long
18:45:20 <mayorgalinux> closing date for add more info in the bid?
18:47:08 <mayorgalinux> i'd like to know the exactly date when the decision will be made, so we would can add sponsors before
18:47:35 <mayorgalinux> does anyone know?
18:48:19 <aeperezt> mayorgalinux, that we don't have but your bid is jun or july we need to make the desicion six month earlier so you have time to work on it
18:48:28 <sesivany> mayorgalinux: I don't think there are any exact days, that's one of the things I've critising, but they can at least give you some "safe" date.
18:48:33 <aeperezt> so January should be a dead line
18:49:19 <cwickert> re
18:49:22 <aeperezt> mayorgalinux, you don't want to plan a fudcon within 2 or 3 months
18:50:07 <aeperezt> well I think we can close the meeting
18:50:13 <aeperezt> sesivany, thanks
18:51:05 <tuanta> it's almost 2:00 AM here. I am going to bed now.
18:51:06 <mayorgalinux> I am thankful whit all you :-)
18:51:08 <sesivany> #endmeeting