18:30:19 <bcotton> #startmeeting docs
18:30:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 18 18:30:19 2022 UTC.
18:30:19 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:30:19 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:30:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:30:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
18:30:31 <bcotton> #topic Roll call
18:31:14 <darknao> .hi
18:31:15 <zodbot> darknao: darknao 'Francois Andrieu' <darknao@drkn.ninja>
18:31:24 <pboy> .hi
18:31:27 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
18:31:43 <bcotton> #chair darknao pboy
18:31:43 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton darknao pboy
18:31:47 <bcotton> welcome!
18:34:04 <bcotton> looks like it may just be the three of us
18:34:08 <bcotton> let's go ahead and get started
18:34:16 <bcotton> #topic Announcements
18:34:27 <bcotton> #help Some release notes still need written: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/how-to-write-fedora-release-notes/38311
18:34:28 <bcotton> #info We're using the docs-fp-o repo to track meta-work
18:34:28 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues
18:34:32 <bcotton> #info The Write the Docs Prague CfP is open (conference will be held online this year)
18:34:33 <bcotton> #link https://www.writethedocs.org/conf/prague/2022/cfp/
18:34:40 <bcotton> #topic Previous action items
18:34:40 <bcotton> #info bcotton to draft a “heads up” message about the gitlab migration
18:34:47 <bcotton> (done. we'll return to this later down the agenda)
18:34:54 <bcotton> #info darknao to verify behavior of “issue tracker read only” setting in pagure
18:35:46 <darknao> I tried it on the fedora-docs-ui, works just fine
18:35:59 <bcotton> #info behavior verified!
18:36:00 <bcotton> great!
18:36:16 <bcotton> #info pbokoc to finally add a relnotes guide to the contributor docs
18:36:30 <pbokoc> I'm on it!
18:36:30 * bcotton waits a moment to see if petr chimes in
18:36:40 <bcotton> he does chimes in! :-)
18:36:44 <pbokoc> :))
18:36:49 <bcotton> #info he's on it
18:36:59 <bcotton> #action pbokoc to finally add a relnotes guide to the contributor docs
18:37:11 <bcotton> #topic Content plan office hours
18:37:11 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/content-plan-office-hours/39208/
18:37:11 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issue/252
18:37:27 <bcotton> pboy: the floor is yours
18:37:50 <pboy> Well, i will add the May 31 and june 2 to fedora calender tomorrow, it we stay at the plan.
18:38:08 <pboy> We now must consider, how to campaign.
18:38:44 <pboy> Info to to various mailing lists?
18:38:50 <pboy> blog post?
18:39:02 <pboy> article in fedora magazin?
18:39:11 <pboy> ???
18:39:27 <bcotton> i'd say commblog and mailing lists. this is too "internal" for Magazine, imo
18:39:44 <darknao> +1
18:40:04 <darknao> commblog + lists
18:40:21 <pboy> OK, what about mailing lists?  user, devel, desktop, cloud ???
18:41:00 <pboy> author of the comm blog afre we three?
18:41:03 <bcotton> devel, desktop, kde, server, iot, cloud, mindshare
18:41:23 <pboy> sender of mailing list should be bcotton, he is well known, we other are not.
18:41:34 <bcotton> i can do that
18:41:56 <pboy> I can make a blog proposal tomorrow on hackmd.
18:42:26 <bcotton> #action pboy to draft a content plan office hours blog post
18:43:03 <bcotton> #bcotton to share post on cloud, devel, desktop, iot, kde, mindshare, server mailing lists
18:43:09 <bcotton> whoops
18:43:17 <bcotton> #action bcotton to share post on cloud, devel, desktop, iot, kde, mindshare, server mailing lists
18:43:33 <bcotton> (#bcotton should just be an alias for '#action bcotton' :-) )
18:43:38 <pboy> If I see it correctly, the issue text doesn't need any modification?
18:44:06 <pboy> And I#ll add color the the mockup start page to find the active links.
18:44:43 <bcotton> yeah, the issue text looks good to me
18:46:14 <pboy> OK, I think we get the ball rolling.
18:46:29 <bcotton> anything else on this topic?
18:46:45 <pboy> I don't think so
18:47:47 <bcotton> #topic GitLab migration
18:47:51 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gitlab-migration-plan/38092
18:47:51 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gitlab-migration-notice/39209/
18:47:51 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issue/253
18:48:45 <darknao> that looks very good to me
18:49:07 <pboy> me to
18:49:08 <bcotton> i posted the draft yesterday. i'll wait until tomorrow to see if there's any changes and if not, i'll send it out
18:49:22 <pboy> Everting seems to be on schedule?
18:49:54 <pboy> Did I miss something? where did you post?
18:50:01 <bcotton> #action bcotton to share the "some repos are moving" content
18:50:25 <bcotton> i haven't yet
18:50:42 <darknao> there is one concern that may arise at some point I think
18:50:56 <bcotton> it'll be on the commblog (I'll probably have it publish on Friday, which is an off day, but that way we can run the office hours post on Tuesday if it's ready by then)
18:51:06 <bcotton> what's that, darknao ?
18:51:39 <darknao> repo on pagure are completely public, but on gitlab, I think you need at least to login with your Fedora account to see the projects in the Fedora namespace
18:52:24 <pboy> I think public read access would be nice
18:52:33 <bcotton> yeahhh. there's been some discussion on the infra list
18:52:54 <pboy> (specifically for me, because I still struggle with the account)
18:53:29 <bcotton> as i understand it, we can drop the "enforce SSO authentication" but require it for owners, maintainers, etc. which should allow anyone to view but only authenticated users to contribute
18:53:53 <darknao> actually, I just tried it, and it seems they are all public in the end
18:53:57 <pboy> that would be the same as now in pagure
18:54:07 <darknao> for instance: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/ui-bundle/ work just fine if I'm not logged
18:54:34 <pboy> for me too, and i can't log in currently
18:54:41 <bcotton> great
18:54:59 <darknao> but if I try to browse the fedora namespace or any sub group, it asks to login
18:54:59 <bcotton> looks like you can't "explore" the repos, but you can at least see the repos you have the link for, which is better than where it was
18:55:09 <darknao> yeah
18:55:42 <pboy> hopefully we get the "explore" working, too?
18:55:47 <darknao> pboy: so did you try to login recently? I've seen some issues open on the infra side about it, and they all seems to be fixed now
18:56:14 <pboy> I is at time ago when I last tried.
18:56:24 <pboy> I'll take care about it asap
18:57:23 <bcotton> anything else on this for now?
18:57:32 <pboy> not from me
18:58:03 <darknao> neither from me
18:58:29 <bcotton> #topic Docs revitalization
18:58:29 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/a-brief-resume-2-months-after-the-revitalization-session/38795/
18:59:51 <bcotton> so we talked about this briefly last week. anyone come up with additional thoughts since?
19:00:41 <pboy> Well, the question is, what should, what want we do
19:00:56 <pboy> or probably, my ideas are completely out of scope?
19:01:47 <bcotton> i wouldn't say that
19:02:06 <pboy> I think, as a first step we need to get a "face".
19:02:10 <bcotton> i think we've sort of been operating on a "if we're active, people will notice and join in" mode so far and that has proven to not work
19:02:38 <pboy> the problem is the "will notice"
19:02:53 <bcotton> agreed
19:02:56 <pboy> We need to advertise.
19:03:06 <pboy> We can use the reconstruction of the documentation to make this known everywhere, to explain how everyone can contribute even with small things.
19:03:27 <pboy> We can try to attract workstation users to the workstation documentation. The same for Cloud. For spins, propose to create a section in the documentation. Start with little content, then expand it based on need or case.
19:03:50 <pboy> Maybe monthly short report, similar to what the infra team does.
19:04:11 <pboy> We need a list of what we want to accomplish in the near future. Also on the team page, not as a reference to issues. This is too complex, too much for outsiders. This looks like a Hercules task, better left alone.
19:04:31 <bcotton> yeah, i think the reconstruction gives us a good starting point to recruit
19:04:46 <pboy> On the team page: Away from anonymity, no one knows who is behind the team. And we have to become approachable, which means finding names and email addresses. This should be on our team page.
19:05:31 <bcotton> and i like my idea of having editions and large solutions (e.g. KDE) have a designated docs participant
19:05:52 <pboy> bcotton +1
19:06:03 <pboy> yes, indeed. Server is already here. :-)
19:06:25 <bcotton> i still worry about a team page becoming out of date very quickly. i'm not going to push it forward, but i won't stand in the way if someone else wants to
19:07:46 <pboy> I think, we should start with a list of currently contributing persons (if we don't want to call it members) and a list of ongoing projects.
19:08:11 <pboy> And we should review the contributors page
19:08:36 <pboy> That content will not get outdated so quickly.
19:08:47 <bcotton> are you volunteering? :-)
19:09:00 <pboy> And we should reserve a topic every 3 months to review the team page
19:09:33 <darknao> we don't need to list every single members in here, maybe just the PoC for each subteam & core team
19:09:51 <pboy> Well, I can make a proposal on hackmd. And yes, I can have a look on the team page.
19:10:17 <pboy> darknao: Currently we have 6 members, at most.
19:10:45 <pboy> We should not mention all those who didn't contribure for years, I think.
19:10:59 <bcotton> #action pboy to draft a proposal for an updated team page that lists current contributors and ongoing projects
19:11:43 <q5sys> Id have no problem with it being public that I'm the Fedora Jam maintainer, along with contact info in case people have questions or whatever. The only downside is that my email accounts are already bombed with emails... so I'd probably want to set up a separate to isolate all the Fedora stuff to so that I can keep it under control.
19:12:16 <q5sys> i was thinking of coming up with a Team Roster of sorts for the Security Team once its going again and I know who's around and willing to pitch in.
19:13:16 <pboy> q5sys good idea, a sort ort contact list in case of questions.
19:13:29 <bcotton> i think we could keep it to listing people's Fedora ID. that at least makes them findable without being too spammy
19:14:13 <pboy> Would be nice to have a kind of "domain of expertise", too. To make it concrete.
19:14:24 <darknao> and maybe with a link to your wiki page, where you can add your prefered contact informations and everything
19:14:36 <pboy> darknao +1
19:15:27 <pboy> And, by the way, we must have a better text in the mindshare box on the start page!
19:15:33 <q5sys> bcotton: i think the only problem with that is that new people to fedora probably wont know how to correlate that with anything actionable.  I mean... maybe that's a good thing... but... perhaps the individual spins could get their own subforum... but with using discourse... there's really not the concept of subforums.   And im not sure how many people still want to use forums.
19:16:53 <bcotton> pboy agreed! I'll propose some new next to the Mindshare Committee for approval
19:17:11 <bcotton> #action bcotton to propose new text for the Mindshare box on the docs home page
19:17:21 <pboy> there must something about doc, translation etc.
19:17:22 <darknao> q5sys: there is tags on discourse for that purpose, or do you have something else in mind?
19:19:51 <q5sys> yea but in my experience with discourse no one uses them.  And the 'single stream of posts' concept that discourse pushes... doesn't allow people to find what they want as easy.  Because it's all just one giant log.  That's good when discussions are going by quickly... and they're somewhat ethereal... but for anything that might have technical merit that someone 6 months later might want to find... discourse is a bad option IMHO.  But it's
19:19:51 <q5sys> what we have... so...
19:20:28 <bcotton> okay we're getting a little far afield. anything else on this topic?
19:20:57 <pboy> I think we have enough actions. :-)
19:21:08 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
19:21:12 <bcotton> anything else for this week?
19:21:54 <darknao> not really, I've done nothing regarding the gitlab migration this week :/
19:22:09 <pboy> neither from me
19:22:28 <bcotton> okay, thanks everyone!
19:22:45 <bcotton> #endmeeting