18:30:51 <bcotton> #startmeeting docs
18:30:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr  6 18:30:51 2022 UTC.
18:30:51 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:30:51 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:30:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:30:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
18:31:11 <bcotton> #topic Roll call
18:31:13 <bcotton> who's here today?
18:31:18 <pboy> .hello2
18:31:19 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
18:31:22 <darknao> .hi
18:31:25 <zodbot> darknao: darknao 'Francois Andrieu' <darknao@drkn.ninja>
18:32:21 <bcotton> #chair bcotton_ pboy darknao
18:32:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bcotton_ darknao pboy
18:32:40 <bcotton_> :-( I see the Matrix<->IRC bridge is still struggling today
18:33:14 <shaunm[m]> .hello shaunm
18:33:15 <zodbot> shaunm[m]: shaunm 'Shaun McCance' <shaunm@gnome.org>
18:34:34 <bcotton_> #chair shaunm[m]
18:34:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bcotton_ darknao pboy shaunm[m]
18:34:42 <bcotton_> alrighty, let's get rollign
18:34:54 <bcotton_> #topic Agenda
18:34:56 <bcotton_> #info Announcements
18:34:57 <bcotton_> #info Review action items
18:35:01 <bcotton_> #info GitLab followup
18:35:02 <bcotton_> #info Content plan PoC
18:35:04 <bcotton_> #info Backlog grooming
18:35:05 <bcotton_> #info Open floor
18:35:09 <bcotton_> #topic Announcements
18:35:10 <bcotton_> #info F36 Final release is targeted for 19 April
18:35:12 <bcotton_> #info We're receiving applicants for our Outreachy proposal. Please welcome them and help them get settled in
18:35:13 <bcotton_> #info We're using the docs-fp-o repo to track meta-work
18:35:15 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues
18:35:17 <bcotton_> #info The consensus was to retire the Telegram group
18:35:18 <bcotton_> #action bcotton to retire the Telegram group
18:35:24 <bcotton_> anything else announcement-shaped to bring up here?
18:36:13 <darknao> the stable url for fedora /latest/ is live: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/
18:36:30 <bcotton_> #info the stable url for fedora /latest/ is live: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/
18:36:35 <bcotton_> woohoo!
18:36:48 <pboy> good news
18:37:25 <bcotton_> darknao: want to collaborate on a community blog post about that to share the news more widely? i'm happy to ghost write it and let you correct it :-)
18:38:05 <darknao> yeah ok why not
18:38:10 <bcotton_> hooray
18:38:32 <bcotton_> #action bcotton and darknao to write a post about the `/latest/` URL for the Community Blog
18:38:37 <bcotton_> any other announcements?
18:39:08 <darknao> nothing else from me
18:39:20 <pboy> not yet
18:39:31 <bcotton_> #topic Previous action items
18:39:40 <bcotton_> #info bcotton to start a Discussion thread welcoming Outreachy applicants and providing some additional information for them
18:39:41 <bcotton_> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/welcome-outreachy-applicants-for-docs/37944/
18:39:47 <bcotton_> done! as the #link implies
18:40:05 <pboy> yeah, and there are contributions already
18:40:12 <bcotton_> #info please feel free to offer feedback to the Outreachy applicants as they make PRs
18:40:22 <darknao> about that
18:41:02 <darknao> I'm not sure PRs is the best medium to talk about the homepage redesign
18:41:55 <bcotton_> yeah...it's a little bit of putting a square peg into a round hole
18:41:59 <darknao> there is no actual code at this stage, and I think it make it confusing for applicants to figure out how to make a PR without any changes
18:42:23 <darknao> a topic on discussion.fp-o seems like a better fit
18:42:52 <darknao> maybe with a #outreachy tag on top of #docs
18:42:54 <bcotton_> when people have asked, i've suggested they do that initially. most haven't asked and the PR is the standard way of submitting applications in Outreachy projects
18:44:23 <bcotton_> #info pbokoc to write a "how to do release notes" guide that he'll post in the forum
18:44:34 <bcotton_> i don't believe he's done that yet (or at least i haven't seen it)
18:44:48 <bcotton_> #action pbokoc to write a "how to do release notes" guide that he'll post in the forum
18:45:00 <bcotton_> #topic GitLab followup
18:45:02 <bcotton_> #info darknao to start discussion of GitLab migration plan for follow-up next week
18:45:03 <bcotton_> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gitlab-migration-plan/38092
18:45:27 <bcotton_> +1 to using the opportunity to retire the `master` branch across our repos
18:46:03 <bcotton_> i read the post yesterday but haven't gotten around to replying yet, but it looks generally good to me
18:46:04 <darknao> a few of us have been added to the correct gitlab group so we are pretty much good to go
18:46:04 <pboy> yeah, I already wondered about about that
18:46:21 <bcotton_> anyone have issues they want to discuss with this?
18:46:36 <darknao> we should pick a first repository to start with, then see how it goes
18:46:55 <pboy> will we have a kind of guide how to join the gitlab group?
18:47:00 <bcotton_> have a particular repo in mind?
18:47:31 <bcotton_> good point, pboy. it would be good to have that documented somewhere (either in our docs contributon docs, or from the infra team at the "community tools" level)
18:47:53 <darknao> pboy: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs you can request access directly from gitlab
18:48:10 <pboy> yeah, I'm still strugeling to get an account ....
18:48:18 <pboy> But I'm in good hope
18:48:23 <bcotton_> actually, i nominate https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/documentation-contributors-guide as our first repository to move
18:49:07 <darknao> I don't have any repo in mind for now, but I guess not something not too much user facing in case something goes wrong while we release f36
18:49:11 <pboy> Should we have kind of hierarchical structure?
18:49:32 <darknao> contributors-guide seems a good candidate
18:50:34 <pboy> I don't know much about gitlab, but we should rectify the structure, compared to our current
18:50:41 <darknao> the proposed structure on gitlab is quite basic at this time, but I'm open to any suggestions
18:51:39 <pboy> Well, I supose I must first manage to get access.
18:54:09 <darknao> i've seen a pboy1 created on the fedora group, I'm guessing it's not you?
18:54:55 <pboy> Yes, it's me. But the connection to FAS didn't work (or timed out?), so I never got it running.
18:56:00 <bcotton_> okay, sounds like we're good on the proposal for now. (i'll reply in the thread for posterity's sake) and we can work on the access issues separately
18:56:37 <pboy> Yeah, fine for me. I'm sure it will work soon.
18:56:55 <darknao> pboy: you can open a ticket with the infra team if you need help
18:57:06 <pboy> OK, will do that.
18:57:23 <bcotton_> #topic Content plan Proof of Concept
18:57:25 <bcotton_> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/a-proof-of-concept-poc-plan-for-new-content-proposal/37941
18:58:00 <pboy> I started work on the Anaconda installation reference. With some luck I have a first cut beginning next week.
18:59:16 <bcotton_> #info pboy is working on the Anaconda installation reference
18:59:17 <bcotton_> great
18:59:23 <pboy> But still the question, when can / will we start to restructure?
18:59:50 <pboy> We even have the old docs, that we wand to discard, on the start page.
19:00:08 <bcotton_> after the proof of concept is done, was my understanding
19:00:57 <pboy> That is, when we agreed about the Anaconda reference guide as a PoC?
19:01:52 <bcotton_> right. we'd use that as a way to test out the plan in real usage and refine any rough parts and get feedback from the community
19:02:11 <pboy> OK. fine with that
19:02:42 <bcotton_> great! anything else on this?
19:04:04 <bcotton_> #topic Backlog grooming
19:04:05 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues
19:04:06 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/issues
19:04:31 <bcotton_> so a while back we talked about doing this every other meeting or so, and this is "every other" :-)
19:04:46 <darknao> let's do this then :)
19:04:46 <bcotton_> i see that darknao has gone through and closed several issues
19:05:13 <pboy> Yes, we had several "go throughs"
19:05:23 <darknao> I use this link for backlog:
19:05:31 <darknao> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues?status=Open&order_key=last_updated&order=asc
19:05:44 <darknao> then we can start with the oldest one
19:05:48 <darknao> .docs 66
19:05:49 <zodbot> darknao: Issue #66: Request DuckDuckGo bang for Fedora Docs - docs-fp-o - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issue/66
19:06:33 <pboy> I think, we decided to use Antorra's search. So we can close it
19:06:45 <darknao> still a good idea I think, but require a working search engine on our side anyway
19:07:03 <bcotton_> so i'm looking at the form right now and it looks like we'd need to either support search strings in the URL or have it point to a duckduckgo search which...eh
19:07:14 <darknao> right
19:07:17 <bcotton_> i'm in favor of closing it
19:07:22 <pboy> ++++++1
19:07:31 <darknao> alright
19:07:55 <bcotton_> #agreed docs-fp-o#66 can be closed
19:07:56 <pboy> I'm very hype with our current stg solution!
19:08:04 <bcotton_> (i'll take care of these after we're done)
19:08:28 <darknao> .docs 75
19:08:29 <zodbot> darknao: Issue #75: RFE: allow reading docs without requiring to run JS from third-party domains - docs-fp-o - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issue/75
19:08:46 <darknao> I don't think this one is relevant anymore
19:08:58 <darknao> we don't have any external JS right now
19:09:06 <pboy> For sake of privacy I would like it ona first sight
19:10:02 <darknao> everything is hosted on the fedora infra, nothing is external
19:10:33 <pboy> Then the ticket is probably outdated?
19:10:45 <darknao> I think it is
19:10:49 <bcotton_> #agreed docs-fp-o#75 can be closed. we no longer use externally-hosted JavaScript
19:11:13 <bcotton_> .docs 36
19:11:14 <zodbot> bcotton_: Issue #36: docs author credit list - docs-fp-o - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issue/36
19:11:44 <darknao> still a good idea
19:11:48 <bcotton_> so we have the history link which provides some degree of author credit. doesn't do anything for translations, though
19:12:10 <bcotton_> it's a good idea, agreed, but i'm not sure we'll ever realistically get to it
19:12:29 <pboy> I think we should have the author(s) and other contributer at the top of each article  (see server doc)
19:12:45 <darknao> there is a credit list on weblate for translators, but I don't think it's publicly available
19:14:24 <bcotton_> realistically, i think our best choice is to say "we support people maintaining a manual list of contributors in individual documents where desired, but we're unlikely to automate anything"
19:15:07 <bcotton_> if we want to leave it open in the hopes that someone automates it someday we can, but i'm not going to place any bets on that happening :-)
19:15:30 <pboy> why not the author on top of avery article?  see https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-server/server-installation/
19:15:31 <darknao> we have a short author list at the bottom of each pages, but that require the use of the :page-authors: tag
19:16:42 <pboy> I think, we need no automation. It Is done when writing the article.
19:16:51 <bcotton_> right, but that means we don't need the ticket
19:17:10 <bcotton_> and in the example you linked we have an author at the top and more authors at the bottom, so we should be consistent
19:17:39 <pboy> Yes, indeed!
19:18:03 <pboy> For us, it is a temporary solution. We didn't know better.
19:18:33 <pboy> What we need is a plan, a design, and what to have where.
19:18:54 * bcotton_ notes to include that in the style guide
19:19:07 <bcotton_> but it sounds like we agree the ticket can be closed?
19:19:37 <pboy> Yes, may be we need another one, more current. But for now, not
19:20:45 <darknao> +1 to close
19:20:48 <bcotton_> #agreed docs-fp-o#36 can be closed as we're unlikely to automate anything in the forseeable future
19:21:03 <bcotton_> .docs 68
19:21:04 <zodbot> bcotton_: Issue #68: Need new repo for packaging tools docs - docs-fp-o - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issue/68
19:21:33 <darknao> there is a package maintainers doc now, so I think that cover it
19:22:03 <pboy> Who is it?
19:22:09 <darknao> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/
19:22:24 <bcotton_> hm. i don't see anything about fedpkg at first glance
19:22:31 <bcotton_> but i agree we can close this issue and file it there
19:22:41 <darknao> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Using_the_Koji_Build_System/ ?
19:23:29 <bcotton_> sort of. I don't think that's quite what was envisioned
19:23:31 <pboy> Yes, I think we can close the ticket as resolved and done.
19:24:01 <bcotton_> #agreed docs-fp-o#68 can be closed. if further fedpkg documentation is needed, it should be filed against hte package-maintainers docs
19:24:16 <darknao> this one is quite detailled https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Package_Maintenance_Guide/
19:24:57 <pboy> I think, the goal was to have  documentation for the tools. And that is the link darknao mentioned
19:25:01 <bcotton_> let's skip ahead to an easier one since we're almost otu of time
19:25:07 <bcotton_> .docs 101
19:25:08 <zodbot> bcotton_: Issue #101: make license more apparent - docs-fp-o - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issue/101
19:25:39 <bcotton_> the license is in the footer of every page. i think this can be closed
19:25:46 <darknao> agree
19:26:18 <pboy> +1
19:26:30 <bcotton_> #agreed docs-fp-o can be closed. it is implemented
19:26:34 <pboy> close as resolved and done
19:26:43 * bcotton_ switches to mobile
19:28:11 <darknao> I think we can switch to open floor for the last 2 minutes
19:28:26 <bcotton> Anything else for today?
19:28:41 <pboy> nope
19:29:04 <darknao> nothing here
19:29:35 <darknao> we are below 30 open issues, that's nice :)
19:29:42 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
19:29:58 <bcotton> It is slightly less warm outside than I expected
19:30:26 <pboy> It's quite cold here in northern Germany. :-)
19:30:41 <bcotton> Okay, well thanks everyone. Hopefully we'll have time to do this again next week. Closing issue feels good
19:30:45 <pboy> nothing to use a phone for typing outside
19:31:05 <pboy> All the best until next week
19:31:12 <darknao> thanks everyone, and thanks bcotton++ for chairing
19:31:28 <bcotton> #endmeeting