18:32:10 <pboy> #startmeeting docs
18:32:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 23 18:32:10 2022 UTC.
18:32:10 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:32:10 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:32:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:32:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
18:32:21 <pboy> #topic Hellos
18:32:33 <pboy> Hello and Welcome!  Who's here?
18:33:16 * py0xc3[m] is here
18:33:23 * shaunm[m] is here
18:35:09 <pboy> Welcome py0xc3  and  shaunm  !
18:36:28 <pboy> How do we want to proceed?
18:36:44 <pboy> We have some leftover from last discussion and some open actions.
18:37:40 <pboy> Any suggestions!
18:37:44 <jessed[m]> hey, i'm new thought I would join the meeting to listen in
18:38:14 <pboy> Welcome jessed!
18:38:41 <py0xc3[m]> I'm primarily here to get into the Docs.
18:39:00 <py0xc3[m]> Find my way in ;)
18:39:26 <cgranell[m]> hello, I'm here as well, sorry for being late. also new to docs :)
18:39:38 <pboy> py0xc3[m] Good to hear! As you see we are in urgent need of active contributors
18:40:01 <pboy> Welcome cgranell[m] !
18:40:11 <py0xc3[m]> I already assumed that :)
18:40:23 <cgranell[m]> ty!
18:41:41 <pboy> Has someone any remarks / comments about our discussion. last meeting?
18:41:52 <py0xc3[m]> Maybe focus leftover first?
18:42:17 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Nothing from me.
18:42:35 <pboy> We have to open action, as far as I see
18:42:46 * pboy pbokoc to cherry-pick antora 3.0 changes in relnotes/install guide/sysadmin guide (bcotton, 18:48:23)
18:42:51 <cgranell[m]> are there any pending action items from last meeting?
18:43:00 * pboy bcotton to post ideas for decision-making to a Discussion thread (bcotton, 19:09:11)
18:43:32 <pboy> cgranell[m] those two we decided last meeting.
18:43:57 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: There are now several docs-related threads open, with some discussions
18:44:06 <copperi[m]> .hello copperi
18:44:07 <zodbot> copperi[m]: copperi 'Jan Kuparinen' <copper_fin@hotmail.com>
18:44:24 <cgranell[m]> ack pboy
18:44:29 <pboy> @pbokoc are you online?
18:44:52 <pboy> Welcome copperi!
18:46:30 <pboy> Obviously, unfortunately  neither Ben nor pbokoc are available today
18:48:25 <shaunm[m]> Does this meeting time work for pbokoc? It's kind of late for him, but I know a lot of our Czech colleagues are used to evenings.
18:48:57 <shaunm[m]> (I suppose that's a question for him, but for a room full of people who aren't him.)
18:48:59 <pboy> shaunm[m] last meeting he participated.
18:49:08 <shaunm[m]> s/but/not/
18:49:22 <shaunm[m]> cool ok
18:49:36 <py0xc3[m]> Germany. Same time zone. No problem I think, just 7:50 pm here :)
18:49:52 <pboy> Well, last meeting we discussed possible activities needed for docs.
18:50:03 <pboy> Maybe we will do differently today? What can each of us think of that she/he would like or could contribute to docs?
18:52:34 <pboy> Maybe, we need some ideas?
18:52:43 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues
18:52:45 <jessed[m]> I actually came here bc I was interested in implementing a search feature in the fcos docs with the antora-lunr extension, and then I noticed that other fedora sites lack search as well
18:53:25 <pboy> Yes, the lack of search is really sad.
18:53:26 <jessed[m]> that is something I would like to contribute to, in some way
18:53:52 <shaunm[m]> there's an open issue about that, I think, with a prototype implementation
18:53:58 <pboy> jessed[m] +1
18:54:02 <shaunm[m]> do you have that already, or should I dig it up?
18:54:26 <jessed[m]> shaunm[m]: yes please dig it up :)
18:55:51 <shaunm[m]> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/ospo-community-infrastructure-projects/us/1
18:56:33 <jessed[m]> the other thing I saw on the proposal in the forums was about monolithic structure; would that benefit from modularization? we use that for the docs I write for
18:56:37 <py0xc3[m]> I work with Fedora since about 2003. Currently I focus on ask.fedora and see a bit what people make out of the docs. From technical perspective, I mostly worked in areas around information security with some red teaming experience. So I will focus related docs, and also focus security aspects of what we suggest to users. E.g. in setting up hypervisors, crypto, ...
18:56:37 <shaunm[m]> that seems like it's in a non-obvious place for everybody else, but there it is.
18:57:43 <pboy> py0xc3[m]: So you could contribute 'content' as a writer?
18:58:27 <pboy> jessed[m]>
18:58:42 <pboy> jessed[m]  what kind of monolithic?
18:59:01 <pboy> monolitic structure in what context?
18:59:12 <py0xc3[m]> Yes. This is one possibility. Currently we definitely have to focus the immediate issues, but on the long term I would like to extend out warnings around "this can lead to data loss" and such also to security critical things. But I can also support in other areas. I have yet to identify what is necessary :)
18:59:53 <pboy> py0xc3[m]: Thanks. About me: I'm besides my job as a scientist a software architect and a (professional) writer. I would like to improve the overall documentation, as I detailed in a post today. That's not a short term acivity, I guess.
19:00:17 <py0xc3[m]> E.g., currently I would like to update the recommendations towards FreeOTP :)
19:00:37 <pboy> py0xc3[m]>
19:00:55 <pboy> py0xc3[m] grrr. Do you have a link to our current content?
19:01:58 <pboy> Sorry, sometimes I have issues with my keyboard
19:02:17 <jessed[m]> pboy: sorry, I meant wrt the installation and administrator's guide. I interpreted it to mean the documents for those topics are large, so maybe they could be split up into multiple standalone files and inserted thru include statements
19:02:39 <pboy> jessed[m]>
19:02:53 <pboy> jessed[m]  Agreed. Thats part of my proposal today.
19:03:43 <copperi[m]> I have done some technical reviews and setup site structure for games and server documentation.  Have done quite a lot of proofreading and often fix small typos and such.
19:05:14 <pboy> copperi: Could / would you do some more technical issues as we have outstanding in some open issues?
19:05:39 <pboy> See link above
19:10:34 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: No currently I cannot. The issue is finally just the 2FA suggestions for Fedoras authenticaiton, so of the website's 2FA. The tool is not updated since 2016 (not acceptable for security tools) in the repos for the smartphones, github repo is also inactive. My suggestion would be andOTP. But I would make this a issue/ticket to discuss if we clarified how to organize it :) So its just about changing the suggested tool. This is
19:10:35 <py0xc3[m]> just one example. There are several Docs that could shape more awareness in deeper security issues, which are unknown to many/most administrators/users if they are not specialized in security (not know about it -> dont search for it in queries -> end up only at the page of how to setup, e.g. how to set up vm host; but that means we know where to put forward the information about risks of e.g. virtual networks :) Many of the
19:10:35 <py0xc3[m]> security breaches and issues we have in the economy could have been easily avoided, maybe through something like that. But I will also help to adjust other content if we find out, e.g. in ask.fedora, that it is confusing or unclear for users. That things work out is also a type of security :) As mentioned before, we already make short "warnings" about data loss and such.
19:12:02 <pboy> py0xc3[m] yes, We should introduce a dedicated section about security.
19:12:33 <pboy> We have 15 Minutes left.
19:12:42 <pboy> Maybe we should spend the rest of our time on how we want to structure our work and our meetings in the future.
19:12:57 <py0xc3[m]> If it makes sense, the warnings can relate to dedicated security pages, e.g., about crypto issues or such. But this is less for the "initial" stage
19:13:08 <pboy> If no one objects I would switch topic in 3 seconds
19:13:35 <pboy> 3
19:13:43 <pboy> 2
19:13:51 <pboy> 1
19:14:02 <copperi[m]> pboy: Sure I can take a look.
19:14:23 <pboy> copperi: thanks!
19:14:52 <pboy> #topic. Organisation of work
19:15:24 <pboy> Maybe we should start with a list what we want to discuss next?
19:15:28 <py0xc3[m]> I put forward a possible approach that could be evaluated when we introduce GitLab, its in the https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/docs-meeting-process-ideas/37142/ in the last two posts
19:17:06 <pboy> Yes, that a good idea to systematize discussion and activities
19:17:12 <py0xc3[m]> It has to be taken with care as I don't know yet sufficiently about the Docs "socio-technical architecture",
19:17:26 <py0xc3[m]> but in past projects I made some good experiences with that
19:17:40 <pboy> So, I first topic is usage of Gitlabs dashboard
19:18:17 <pboy> And we will get to know the socio-technical architecture.  :-)
19:18:33 <py0xc3[m]> Is it already fixed that Docs will move to GitLab? I cannot clearly identify if this is just evaluated or already final
19:18:48 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Quite sure ;)
19:19:00 <pboy> Yes, as far as I know it is fixed and partly already done.
19:19:52 <py0xc3[m]> If we keep focusing on new contributors we should  then focus on soon adjusting the "git intro for newcomers" Ben wrote towards GitLab.
19:20:33 <pboy> py0xc3[m] +1. Noted
19:20:39 <pboy> Another more simple idea is to open a discussion thread 3 days ahead of a meeting and collect and structure topics to discuss.
19:23:00 <py0xc3[m]> Absolutely. There is nothing against keeping the meetings active ;) In a previous task, the dashboard was a well complement within the meetings. Additionally discussing and collecting in discussion is nothing I wanted to dissolve.
19:23:43 <pboy> Yes, both proposals are additional to each other
19:23:54 <py0xc3[m]> Especially long term issues, strategic developments, and such, is less an issue to the dashboard and its task allocations
19:26:00 <pboy> Another topic we should discuss is our long list of open issues and what to do about it.
19:27:25 <jessed[m]> <py0xc3[m]> "but in past projects I made some..." <- a meta repo would be useful. it can contain onboarding information, style guides, archive of meeting notes, or something like that too. though i'm also not familiar with the socio-technical/cultural parts of the docs just yet :)
19:27:55 <py0xc3[m]> A general suggestion (or question) about this: if it is about strategic/long term issues, does it make sense to focus discussion on discourse rather than here? This ensures that everyone can contribute to finally derive a structured consensus?
19:28:40 <py0xc3[m]> jessed[m]: You are not alone ;) I'm also just getting in touch with it.
19:28:58 <py0xc3[m]> This is why I am a bit careful with making suggestions
19:30:26 <pboy> py0xc3: Sometimes it makes sense to ' sting ' a bit
19:30:47 <pboy> But, that is another topic: Improve presentation and orientation of docs material and proceedings.
19:31:29 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: understood ;)
19:31:39 <pboy> We are at the end of our time.
19:32:30 <pboy> I'll write a short report in discourse, so we can collect some more ideas.
19:32:54 <py0xc3[m]> General question: Are there already specific tasks identified, besides content writing, where there is a shortage of staff?
19:33:03 <py0xc3[m]> ok
19:33:35 <py0xc3[m]> py0xc3[m]: If so, it maybe makes sense to consolidate this in discourse or such, so that the new people can already check out if they can take over some of it.
19:33:54 <pboy> py0xc3[m]: as fas as I know: No list of tasks
19:34:01 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: thanks for chairing
19:34:29 <pboy> Thanks. And hanks for comming and see you next week
19:34:44 <pboy> #endmeeting