16:30:34 <dustymabe> #startmeeting fedora_coreos_meeting 16:30:34 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 26 16:30:34 2021 UTC. 16:30:34 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 16:30:34 <zodbot> The chair is dustymabe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:30:34 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:30:34 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_coreos_meeting' 16:30:38 <dustymabe> #topic roll call 16:30:40 <dustymabe> .hi dustymabe 16:30:41 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dusty@dustymabe.com> 16:31:10 <copperi_> .hi copperi 16:31:10 <zodbot> copperi_: Sorry, but you don't exist 16:31:14 <lorbus> .hi 16:31:14 <jdoss> .hi 16:31:15 <zodbot> lorbus: lorbus 'Christian Glombek' <cglombek@redhat.com> 16:31:18 <zodbot> jdoss: jdoss 'Joe Doss' <joe@solidadmin.com> 16:31:19 <copperi_> hello copperi 16:31:25 <skunkerk> .hello sohank2602 16:31:26 <cyberpear> .hi 16:31:26 <zodbot> skunkerk: sohank2602 'Sohan Kunkerkar' <skunkerk@redhat.com> 16:31:29 <zodbot> cyberpear: cyberpear 'James Cassell' <fedoraproject@cyberpear.com> 16:31:44 <copperi_> * .hello copperi 16:31:59 <bgilbert> .hi 16:32:00 <zodbot> bgilbert: bgilbert 'Benjamin Gilbert' <bgilbert@backtick.net> 16:32:13 <fifofonix> .hello fifofonix 16:32:14 <zodbot> fifofonix: fifofonix 'Fifo Phonics' <fifofonix@gmail.com> 16:32:19 <lorbus> copperi: you have to use your fedora (fas) name 16:32:40 <jlebon> .hello2 16:32:41 <zodbot> jlebon: jlebon 'None' <jonathan@jlebon.com> 16:33:05 <copperi_> lorbus: that is my fas name 16:33:11 <copperi_> .hello copperi 16:33:12 <zodbot> copperi_: copperi 'Jan Kuparinen' <copper_fin@hotmail.com> 16:33:19 <dustymabe> #chair copperi_ lorbus jdoss skunkerk cyberpear bgilbert fifofonix jlebon 16:33:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: bgilbert copperi_ cyberpear dustymabe fifofonix jdoss jlebon lorbus skunkerk 16:33:43 <lorbus> :tada 16:33:47 <lorbus> * :tada: 16:33:49 <travier> .hello siosm 16:33:50 <zodbot> travier: siosm 'Timothée Ravier' <travier@redhat.com> 16:34:00 <lucab> .hello2 16:34:01 <zodbot> lucab: lucab 'Luca Bruno' <lucab@redhat.com> 16:34:05 <jaimelm> .hello2 jaimelm 16:34:06 <zodbot> jaimelm: jaimelm 'Jaime Magiera' <jaimelm@umich.edu> 16:34:23 <jbrooks> .hello jasonbrooks 16:34:26 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <jbrooks@redhat.com> 16:35:20 <dustymabe> #chair travier lucab jaimelm jbrooks 16:35:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: bgilbert copperi_ cyberpear dustymabe fifofonix jaimelm jbrooks jdoss jlebon lorbus lucab skunkerk travier 16:35:22 <lorbus> great turnout today, hello all :) 16:35:29 <dustymabe> #topic Action items from last meeting 16:35:35 <dustymabe> * jaimelm to ask the OKD working group if there are any implications that systemd-oomd would have on k8s/OKD 16:35:38 <dustymabe> * dustymabe to find out how systemd-oomd acts under cgroups v1 (if at all) 16:35:40 <dustymabe> * darkmuggle to investigate systemd-oomd (in use without swap) and report back next week 16:36:17 <dustymabe> #info systemd-oomd doesn't work with cgroups v1, but it gracefully does not run (no error) in that case: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/840#issuecomment-848267411 16:37:13 <dustymabe> jaimelm: darkmuggle[m]: anything? 16:37:34 <lorbus> I missed the OKD WG last night again, maybe jaimelm has an update 16:37:44 <dustymabe> I was there for the first half of it 16:38:07 <lorbus> I think we'll move to cgroupsv2 with OKD soon too, no? 16:38:09 <jaimelm> we ran out of time before I could bring it up. I'll create a discussion item and point folks to that. 16:38:27 <dustymabe> #action jaimelm to ask the OKD working group if there are any implications that systemd-oomd would have on k8s/OKD 16:38:30 <jaimelm> We (OKDWG) will then talk about it at the next meeting. 16:38:41 <lorbus> thanks jaimelm 16:38:46 <dustymabe> #action darkmuggle to investigate systemd-oomd (in use without swap) and report back next week 16:38:58 <dustymabe> in that case I'll table the systemd-oomd discussion until next week 16:39:07 <dustymabe> #topic cgroups v2 strategy 16:39:13 <dustymabe> #link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/292 16:39:22 <dustymabe> #info the next `testing` release will default to cgroups v2. Followed by `stable` two weeks after that. 16:39:28 <dustymabe> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/coreos-status@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/V6OSIUOL5ICEP7WMXLJ2NI47EFNQ3MYF/ 16:39:32 <dustymabe> mostly an FYI ^^ 16:40:02 <travier> https://github.com/openshift/okd-machine-os/pull/88 > PR to move OKD to cgroupsv2 16:40:49 <dustymabe> anything to discuss before we move to the next topic? 16:41:27 <jlebon> yay! 16:41:39 <dustymabe> #topic future communications on IRC 16:41:45 <dustymabe> #info it looks like Fedora is going to be going with Libera.chat in the future. We'll follow at the same time Fedora switches over. 16:41:51 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/372 16:42:13 <bgilbert> see also subthread at 16:42:15 <travier> Matrix bridges have been removed already 16:42:15 <bgilbert> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/371#comment-734762 16:43:12 <bgilbert> it seems that if Libera is mentioned in the Freenode channel topic, Freenode will take over your channel 16:43:28 <dustymabe> interesting 16:43:39 <bgilbert> so we should be careful during the migration process, if Fedora as a whole doesn't come up with a redirection policy 16:44:18 <jdoss> I didn't have the "Death of Freenode" on my 2021 bingo card :( 16:44:30 <dustymabe> i'm hoping they do have a migration policy 16:44:44 <dustymabe> i was in #centos-devel and got moved to #centos-has-moved 16:44:56 <dustymabe> if I try to join it now I get "you must be invited" 16:45:25 <bgilbert> it sounds like channel ops are trying various approaches, yeah 16:45:30 <dustymabe> basically a clear sign something has changed and don't hang around in these channels no one is monitoring 16:46:01 <lorbus> there have apparently been a lot of take overs of channels of projects that have declared their intent to move to libera by the new freenode regime 16:46:27 <lorbus> on hacker news today...quite a few entries on the front page 16:46:51 <dustymabe> sad.. oh well. we'll deal with it as it comes 16:47:33 <lorbus> I do rely on the matrix bridge personally but apparently a new one for Libera.Chat is already WIP 16:47:40 <dustymabe> bgilbert: wonder if there is anything we should do for #coreos 16:47:59 <jaimelm> "This channel has moved to ##asterisk. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies" 16:48:07 <jaimelm> they are being assholes about it 16:48:16 <lorbus> that ^ 16:48:18 <bgilbert> dustymabe: was thinking about that. I don't think so. the topic mentions the EOL and the channel gets basically no traffic, except by mistake 16:48:55 <dustymabe> i was wondering if we should just shut it down. and point people elsewhere 16:48:56 <jlebon> yuck, those topic hijacks are pretty scummy 16:49:01 <jdoss> What does ##channel even mean? 16:49:08 <nb> jdoss ## is unofficial 16:49:10 <cyberpear> just leave it be 16:49:18 <jdoss> Thanks nb 16:49:58 <bgilbert> dustymabe: current freenode policy forbids shutting down primary channels, and if you do it anyway, it says they'll respond by shutting down your channel 16:50:09 <travier> :D 16:50:27 <dustymabe> weird haha. wonder how #centos-devel got away with it 16:50:43 <dustymabe> oh well. IRC is also the subject of our next topic 16:50:46 <jlebon> has anyone connected to libera yet and do we already have a #fedora-coreos channel there we should be joining? 16:50:48 <travier> They did it early I guess 16:50:57 <jdoss> jlebon: dusty grabbed it 16:50:58 <jlebon> until we officially completely move over 16:51:05 <dustymabe> jlebon: There's a #fedora-coreos channel. I'm in 16:51:13 <travier> Hopefully we can switch to Matrix some time soon 16:51:32 <jlebon> ack ok. will join as well 16:51:33 <dustymabe> so feel free to join over there, but we'll keep conversations here until whenever the fedora flag day is (just to try to reduce confusion) 16:51:39 <lorbus> I think it'll be announced at https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/371 once the move is official/complete 16:52:00 <lorbus> everybody should probably create an account now 16:52:07 <dustymabe> i guess if we get taken over before that (for some reason) we'll move earlier 16:52:09 <jaimelm> Already did mine 16:52:25 <jdoss> same 16:52:35 <nb> Do *not* put anything in your topic about other irc networks 16:52:43 <nb> that is all i have to say at the moment 16:53:16 <dustymabe> nb. what if it's a link to a statement about moving? will that evade their detection? 16:53:17 <jaimelm> that was too easy 16:53:18 <cyberpear> nb: can someone tweak zodbot to prevent that? 16:53:24 <nb> cyberpear hmm, idk 16:53:38 <nb> dustymabe I would rather people just let us handle that 16:53:58 <dustymabe> nb: sounds good. we're not planning to do anything until fedora has ironed out the plan 16:54:06 <dustymabe> we're along for the ride 16:54:06 <nb> great 16:54:30 <dustymabe> #topic set up logging for #fedora-coreos IRC channel 16:54:39 <dustymabe> #link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/11#issuecomment-848384177 16:54:49 <dustymabe> unrelated to the freenode drama (I think) 16:54:54 <bgilbert> so... we're losing our logging service again. end of June. 16:55:17 <bgilbert> it kinda feels like we're running out of logging services. I found one, and there might be more 16:55:36 <cyberpear> bgilbert: is that a paid service or? 16:55:36 <bgilbert> but it feels a bit like "someone on the Internet logging some random channels" 16:55:41 <jaimelm> bgilbert: do you have any experience with the one you linked to? 16:55:49 <bgilbert> I do not, I just did some googling 16:55:50 <lorbus> I don't want to oppose anything here, but it would be great if there was a GDPR/any other privacy law compliant logger that open source projects could rely in 16:55:53 <jaimelm> OK 16:55:54 <bgilbert> cyberpear: none of the ones so far have been paid 16:56:09 <dustymabe> lorbus: yeah, that would be nice 16:56:14 <jaimelm> indeed 16:56:17 <bgilbert> so a couple things: 16:56:17 <dustymabe> I liked the logbot interface, a lot 16:56:21 <bgilbert> dustymabe: yeah 16:57:11 <jbrooks> My team in RH's OSPO could run a logger for us 16:57:14 <bgilbert> 1) we have a month, and even if we take longer than that, losing logging isn't a huge huge deal. maybe we should wait for the freenode problem to play out first, since our channel is probably moving. 16:57:25 <jaimelm> ^^ 16:57:29 <cyberpear> has anyone inquired about taking over logbot.info? or reasons for shutdown? 16:57:36 <lorbus> maybe Fedora infra could help us with that too...it'd really be great to be able to self-control it 16:57:37 <jaimelm> With limited cycles everyone has, that sounds like a good plan. 16:57:46 <bgilbert> 2) does anyone know if the Matrix bridge will capture IRC history? 16:58:02 <misc> it does 16:58:05 <lorbus> also zodbot is logging all the #cmd things in meetings (and all of their contents while the meeting is on as well), if I'm not mistaken 16:58:11 <bgilbert> jbrooks: that'd be awesome! we asked around at one point and got bogged down in GDPR questions. 16:58:36 <bgilbert> cyberpear: not afaik 16:58:58 <lorbus> yup matrix bridge can act as bouncer as well 16:58:58 <jbrooks> bgilbert, we run stuff that sometimes leads to GDPR requests, we can field them 16:59:07 <bgilbert> jbrooks: +1 16:59:21 * misc look at getting 6 more months of PTO 16:59:33 <lorbus> jbrooks++ 16:59:33 <zodbot> lorbus: Karma for jasonbrooks changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 16:59:39 <bgilbert> notwithstanding jbrooks' offer, maybe Matrix is the right approach here? that avoids asking someone to run Yet Another Service 16:59:39 <jbrooks> lol 16:59:40 <lorbus> that's be awesome 16:59:59 <jbrooks> Fedora is getting a hosted matrix service 17:00:09 <bgilbert> jbrooks: right, that's what I meant 17:00:19 <dustymabe> bgilbert: i.e. go "all in" on matrix? 17:00:33 <dustymabe> or just leverage the matrix bridge for the logging? 17:00:46 <bgilbert> dustymabe: just rely on it for our IRC logging 17:00:57 <dustymabe> WFM especially if it kills two birds with one stone 17:01:13 <bgilbert> what do other folks think? 17:01:15 <dustymabe> I guess I'd be interested in how nice the user interface is 17:01:15 <travier> Matrix should probably be the default for newcomers anyway 17:01:16 <cyberpear> /me wants to stay w/ IRC 17:01:27 <lorbus> works for me :) 17:01:42 <dustymabe> cyberpear: it would be bridged. I suspect most of us would probably still be connecting from IRC (unless we wanted to migrate) 17:02:00 <travier> Keeping the IRC bridge make sense for old timers that already have a complex setup and bouncers. Newcomers don't care and Matrix is much easier for them 17:02:08 <cyberpear> eventually, they'll fix the "XYZ sent a log message: link" issue 17:02:17 <jaimelm> agree with travier 17:02:18 <dustymabe> i've been wanting to migrate, just haven't had the kick in the rear enough to get it done 17:02:34 <jaimelm> there's age/experience threshold 17:02:45 <dustymabe> bgilbert: have we given you enough to chart a path forward here? 17:02:49 <bgilbert> practically speaking, our options are "do something now" and "do not do something now". we can always add a logger later. 17:03:16 <dustymabe> I'd say "do not do something now" see how the matrix bridge (via Fedora matrix instance) to libera tuns out 17:03:19 <dustymabe> turns* 17:03:26 <bgilbert> #proposed We will not pursue a new IRC logger yet, pending possible channel migration and more experience with Matrix. 17:03:30 <jaimelm> Do we know the timeline for the Fedora hosted one? 17:03:36 <dustymabe> ack 17:03:40 <dustymabe> jaimelm: i'm not sure of that 17:03:40 <jaimelm> weeks? months? 17:03:47 <jbrooks> Probably more like weeks 17:03:49 <cyberpear> +1 17:03:50 <jaimelm> OK 17:03:59 <Southern_Gentlem> week 17:04:03 <jaimelm> ack 17:04:05 <dustymabe> Southern_Gentlem++ 17:04:05 <zodbot> dustymabe: Karma for jbwillia changed to 6 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:04:34 <Southern_Gentlem> things are in the works for it to happen asap 17:04:45 <jaimelm> cool 17:05:08 <travier> bgilbert: +1 17:05:15 <dustymabe> any final +1 or -1 to the proposed? 17:05:28 <Southern_Gentlem> bridges are being closed (matirx and telegram) so new ones can be created 17:05:36 <lorbus> 💃 17:05:54 <lorbus> +1 17:05:59 <dustymabe> #agreed We will not pursue a new IRC logger yet, pending possible channel migration and more experience with Matrix. 17:06:24 <dustymabe> #topic Consider alternating video/IRC meeting for FCOS group meetings 17:06:29 <dustymabe> #link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/779 17:07:02 <dustymabe> #info our first high bandwidth video meeting will be next week 06/02/2021 17:07:12 <dustymabe> Will send out an email with an announcement 17:07:18 <jdoss> I think a video meeting would be cool from time to time. Thanks for getting this going. 17:07:22 <jaimelm> looking forward to it. 17:07:37 <dustymabe> we have one ticket topic so far: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Avideo-meeting 17:07:56 <dustymabe> i think we should use these to maybe go through Fedora Proposed changes as well 17:08:25 <dustymabe> so we can fill in time with relevant propsed changes from Fedora and discuss any implications so we can take part in the discussion process this cycle 17:08:26 <travier> dustymabe: +1 17:09:36 <jlebon> sounds like a good idea +1 17:10:02 <dustymabe> sweet :) - will be good to put faces with names/nicks (if you choose to share video) 17:10:13 <dustymabe> #topic open floor 17:10:22 <dustymabe> anyone with anything for open floor ? 17:10:31 <jdoss> What is the best way to showcase FOSS projects consuming FCOS? 17:10:37 <travier> I have a couple FCOS talks accepted (Pass the Salt 2021, DevOps France) 17:10:37 <jdoss> Mailing list post? 17:11:06 <jlebon> travier++ 17:11:06 <zodbot> jlebon: Karma for siosm changed to 3 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:11:06 <travier> We have page in the docs too 17:11:19 <jdoss> I am this ' ' close to launching a project for work that uses FCOS under the hood in a single node use case. 17:11:26 <travier> jdoss: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-coreos/fcos-projects/ 17:11:28 <lucab> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-coreos/fcos-projects/ 17:11:37 <lucab> :) 17:11:56 <jdoss> Cool. I will make a PR and make a mailing list post for it. 17:12:05 <jbrooks> Fedora Magazine, maybe? 17:12:05 <dustymabe> jdoss: all of the above! 17:12:05 <dustymabe> :) 17:12:05 <jbrooks> opensource.com is another option 17:12:05 <dustymabe> The Fedora Podcast just got rebooted 17:12:25 <jdoss> I was thinking of reaching out to do a Fedora Mag article too. 17:12:25 <dustymabe> jdoss++ 17:13:00 <dustymabe> sounds awesome 17:13:16 <jdoss> It's mostly ducktape Dusty 17:13:35 <dustymabe> you're talking about the entire internet, right? 17:13:40 <jdoss> haha yes! 17:13:44 <dustymabe> :) 17:14:29 <copperi_> duct tape with holes 17:14:39 <dustymabe> any other topics for open floor? 17:15:50 <dustymabe> #info go vote in the Fedora elections https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/f34-elections-voting-now-open/ 17:16:03 <travier> #ivoted 17:16:06 <jdoss> Can I vote for you Dusty? 17:16:25 <dustymabe> write in vote :) 17:16:35 <jdoss> done 17:16:38 <dustymabe> i've thought about doing it in the past. always felt a little too busy to do it 17:16:43 <jdoss> Yeah I bet 17:16:50 <dustymabe> maybe next time (after this home renovation is done) 17:17:08 <jaimelm> baby renovation is ongoing 17:17:14 <jaimelm> I've found that out 17:17:16 <jdoss> I know that feeling. 17:17:17 <dustymabe> not saying I'd get elected, just that if I did I'd want to be able to do it right 17:17:44 <lorbus> dustymabe++ 17:17:44 <zodbot> lorbus: Karma for dustymabe changed to 5 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:17:53 <lorbus> you'd have my vote :) 17:17:53 <dustymabe> Thanks all for coming to the meeting today! This was fun 17:18:07 <dustymabe> see you in high definition next week 17:18:19 <cyberpear> IMO, they didn't loudly-enough announce nominations this time around; otherwise I'd have considered running 17:18:36 <dustymabe> #endmeeting