16:30:43 <dustymabe> #startmeeting fedora_atomic_wg
16:30:43 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 21 16:30:43 2018 UTC.  The chair is dustymabe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:43 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_atomic_wg'
16:30:48 <dustymabe> #topic roll call
16:30:52 <lorbus> .hello2
16:30:53 <patux> I am a Fedora Ambassador and interested in Cloud Computing.
16:30:53 <zodbot> lorbus: lorbus 'Christian Glombek' <c@petersen-glombek.de>
16:30:54 <cverna> hello o/
16:30:59 <dustymabe> hi patux. welcome!
16:31:09 <dustymabe> .hello2
16:31:10 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dusty@dustymabe.com>
16:31:13 <jlebon> .hello jlebon
16:31:14 <zodbot> jlebon: jlebon 'None' <jonathan@jlebon.com>
16:32:12 * coremodule is here.
16:32:18 <coremodule> .hello coremodule
16:32:19 <zodbot> coremodule: coremodule 'Geoffrey Marr' <gmarr@redhat.com>
16:32:48 <patux> Yes I would like to contribute to Project Atomic.
16:32:53 <dustymabe> patux: great!
16:33:15 <dustymabe> patux: what timezone are you in? maybe grab me in #atomic after the meeting and we can give you some pointers?
16:33:34 <ashcrow> .hello smilner
16:33:35 <zodbot> ashcrow: smilner 'None' <smilner@redhat.com>
16:33:46 <patux> My request for the Atomic Fedora WG has not yet been accepted.
16:34:06 <patux> in my FAS
16:34:22 <patux> I need a mentor.
16:34:25 <dustymabe> patux: membership in that group does not give you any benefits. I've been mostly deleting those requests
16:35:26 <patux> I live in Geneva, Switzerland : GMT+1
16:35:31 <dustymabe> patux: cool cool
16:35:38 <dustymabe> we have some other contributors that are in that TZ
16:35:47 <dustymabe> let's chat in #atomic after the meeting
16:35:48 <dustymabe> :)
16:35:49 <ksinny> .hello sinnykumari
16:35:50 <zodbot> ksinny: sinnykumari 'Sinny Kumari' <ksinny@gmail.com>
16:35:55 <dustymabe> #topic previous meeting action items
16:36:16 <lorbus> patux: great having you here! I'm in GMT+1 also, in Germany
16:36:22 <dustymabe> action items for last meeting were:
16:36:27 <dustymabe> * jlebon to write blog post for recent rpm-ostree/ostree releases
16:36:29 <dustymabe> features
16:36:51 <dustymabe> #info jlebon wrote blog post on new features of ostree/rpm-ostree http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2018/03/new-rpm-ostree-features/
16:36:55 <dustymabe> nice work jlebon!
16:36:58 <ashcrow> jlebon++
16:37:02 <patux> I follow this meeting then I will try #Atomic too.
16:37:05 <jlebon> thanks! :)
16:37:07 <jbrooks> .fas jasonbrooks
16:37:08 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <jbrooks@redhat.com>
16:37:24 * jbrooks apologizes for lateness
16:37:54 <dustymabe> jbrooks: :)
16:38:12 <dustymabe> ok on to meeting tickets
16:38:19 <dustymabe> #topic coordinate Project Atomic-related talks for devconf.us
16:38:24 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/421
16:38:31 <walters> .hello walters
16:38:32 <zodbot> walters: walters 'Colin Walters' <walters@redhat.com>
16:38:41 <dustymabe> sanja: had closed this ticket, but I still think it's useful
16:38:59 <dustymabe> can we get some more people with ideas for devconf.us talks?
16:39:23 <ashcrow> I'm planning on submitting, but not sure what specific topic (other than atomic :-)
16:39:34 <jlebon> i might resubmit my FAW talk
16:39:46 <dustymabe> ashcrow: anything atomic host atomic workstation openshift/kube related
16:39:51 * ashcrow nods
16:40:19 <lorbus> topic idea: APB development
16:41:00 <lorbus> (I would submit myself, but dunno if I'm eligible for travel funding)
16:41:11 <lorbus> *Ansible Playbook Bundle that is
16:41:12 <ashcrow> lorbus: that's a good one!
16:41:22 <dustymabe> lorbus: if it gets accepted I think there is conference budget
16:41:40 <dustymabe> just make it clear in your submission
16:41:49 <lorbus> ok. whats the deadline?
16:42:18 <ashcrow> CfP Closes: April 3, 2018
16:42:27 <lorbus> thanks ashcrow
16:42:38 <dustymabe> lorbus: do you mind adding a comment to the ticket too?
16:43:03 <dustymabe> jlebon: you as well
16:43:37 <dustymabe> mnguyen: and miabbott... could submit a talk on 'migrating atomic-host-tests to use fedora standard test interface'
16:43:44 <dustymabe> that would be an interested "case study" talk
16:44:06 <dustymabe> jbrooks: anything on your end?
16:44:27 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
16:44:28 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
16:44:29 <jbrooks> dustymabe, Not at this point, I'll think more on it
16:45:02 <dustymabe> k
16:45:15 <dustymabe> does anyone think the 'atomic BOF' idea is a good one
16:45:22 <dustymabe> we had that session at devconf.cz
16:45:32 <dustymabe> unfortunately it was at the same time as a bunch of other things
16:45:46 <kushal> dustymabe, In devconf.us?
16:45:51 <lorbus> I have a hobby project that is essentially about developing APBs: https://github.com/contor-cloud/contor
16:46:00 <lorbus> there isnt much there, yet, but feel free to take a look
16:46:02 <dustymabe> lorbus: sounds cool
16:46:22 <lorbus> also feel free to join #contor everyone :)
16:46:36 <ashcrow> nice
16:46:48 <ashcrow> kushal: yeah, devconf.us
16:47:09 <dustymabe> ok. i will move on to next topic
16:47:26 <dustymabe> #info please add devconf.us talk ideas to https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/421
16:47:27 <jbrooks> The devconf.us email mentioned that it will be a small event, so I'm not sure what to make of that
16:48:09 <dustymabe> jbrooks: I'm just going to let the organizers worry about that.. if they accept my talk I'll assume it's appropriate
16:48:16 <dustymabe> langdon: might be able to clarify
16:48:20 <ashcrow> jbrooks: my assumption is that it's because it's the first one and those tend to be smaller BUT *shrug*
16:48:20 <jbrooks> Right, I was thinking bof-wise
16:48:30 <langdon> dustymabe: ??
16:48:59 <langdon> jbrooks: small compared to devconf.cz.. ~300 vs ~1700
16:49:13 <dustymabe> langdon: any guidance for submissions?
16:49:27 <dustymabe> should we change our strategy based on the "smaller event" detail
16:49:45 <dustymabe> jbrooks: I see a "Host a BOF" link on the website so I assume BOFs are OK
16:49:50 <jbrooks> cool
16:50:10 <dustymabe> ok moving to next topic.. thanks langdon
16:50:24 <langdon> jbrooks: yeah... bofs we *think* we can support.. we are not sure we have space yet.. but we are asking for submissions to a) use them if we can b) show demand for next year
16:50:39 <jbrooks> got it
16:50:50 <dustymabe> langdon: one more question
16:51:04 <dustymabe> is a 'resubmission from devconf.cz' encouraged?
16:51:28 <dustymabe> i imagine the audience other core people will mostly be different, so might not be lost on them
16:51:30 <langdon> encouraged? no.. fine? yes.. i would rather see "progress" but similar or related topics is ok..
16:51:41 <langdon> dustymabe: right.. bit of a toss up on that
16:51:46 <dustymabe> k
16:51:51 <dustymabe> ok, thanks langdon
16:52:09 <dustymabe> #topic Evaluate podman for inclusion in atomic host
16:52:13 <langdon> so. i think "submit what you like" is the guidance.. we need to run it once or twice before we can get tighter
16:52:15 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/422
16:52:38 <ashcrow> I can give some background on this one
16:52:45 * dustymabe grabs popcorn
16:52:48 <ashcrow> as I tagged it for the meeting :-)
16:53:40 <ashcrow> I was speaking with a few folks and there was a belief that podman was allready agreed to as being part of the compose. I threw the 'we haven't gotten to that yet' flag...
16:54:20 <ashcrow> The issue it self is fine, but I think we should come to a conclusion a bit sooner than later (say, a few weeks tops)
16:54:36 <ashcrow> to avoid the confusion others have about how we will (or will not) be providing podman for admins/developers
16:54:46 <jbrooks> I say do it
16:54:54 <ashcrow> jbrooks: do it as in the compose?
16:55:09 <jbrooks> Sure, it's small, right?
16:55:51 <ashcrow> Fair enough ... but basically I just want to put this in front of everyones eyes again so we can decide
16:56:10 <ashcrow> So pleast do add comments and hopefully we can close it out soonish :-)
16:56:11 <dustymabe> anybody here have any experience with podman?
16:56:12 <ashcrow> *please
16:56:25 <dustymabe> last I heard it wasn't quite ready and that's mostly why we were waiting
16:56:36 <dustymabe> i think walters was kicking the tires on it
16:56:55 <ashcrow> dustymabe: that's a fair question to ask ben in the issue as well
16:56:55 * jbrooks layering it now
16:57:09 <walters> i've switeched my dev containers to it now
16:58:17 <ashcrow> dustymabe: that's all I have on the topic
16:58:29 <dustymabe> another question.. how does it interact with docker if they are both installed?
16:58:45 <dustymabe> I say first step.. add it to rawhide
16:58:53 <dustymabe> I'm not opposed to doing that today
16:58:54 <jbrooks> layered, rebooted, and "podman run centos echo foo" works :)
17:00:06 <ashcrow> dustymabe: I threw the questions in the issue, but there should be no side effects with docker
17:00:12 <walters> I'm +1 to adding to AH by default
17:00:15 <jlebon> how about: ask devs if they think it's ready for wider consumption, if yes, add to rawhide
17:00:36 <ashcrow> That sounds good to me
17:00:40 <walters> one of the biggest things you'll note is it doesn't share image storage with docker
17:00:57 <jbrooks> It's in the fedora repos
17:01:04 <jbrooks> So it's already considered that stable
17:01:14 <jbrooks> easily stable enough to just stick it in rawide
17:01:16 <jbrooks> hide
17:01:32 <mheon> jbrooks: i feel obligated to note that we are officially alpha, but i would say we are definitely rawhide level stable
17:01:51 <dustymabe> mheon: yay.. glad to see you here
17:02:23 <dustymabe> mheon: would be cool if you and container crew could add "talk ideas" to https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/421
17:02:50 <mheon> dustymabe: my devconf.us talk is still stewing, but i'll throw it in there once it's ready
17:03:00 <dustymabe> ashcrow: can you add notes to the current $topic's ticket ?
17:03:14 <dustymabe> mheon: just a title would be good enough
17:03:20 <ashcrow> sure
17:03:29 <mheon> dustymabe: that's part of what's stweing :-)
17:04:15 <dustymabe> mheon: "i'm planning to do a talk" works too
17:04:19 <dustymabe> ok next topic
17:04:24 <jbrooks> mheon, I can run something from my local docker images w/ podman, right?
17:04:26 <dustymabe> #topic use botbot.me to log #atomic channel
17:04:32 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/438
17:04:40 <dustymabe> this was brought up by miabbott
17:04:53 <mheon> jbrooks: negative - we have a separate image store
17:05:07 <mheon> jbrooks: with skopeo, you can pull images from docker into our store
17:05:17 <dustymabe> so having nice logs for the channel would be a positive IMHO
17:05:18 <jbrooks> mheon, right
17:05:23 <jbrooks> +1 to logs
17:05:24 <dustymabe> one example is https://botbot.me/freenode/coreos/
17:05:56 <dustymabe> is anybody opposed?
17:05:58 <rubao> +1 to logs
17:05:59 * ashcrow looks
17:06:13 <ksinny> +1
17:06:18 <drakonis> +1
17:06:18 <ashcrow> +1
17:06:23 <dustymabe> I have brought this up at least one time in the past and one reason people mentioned as a negative is being "logged/tracked" etc..
17:06:33 <lorbus> +1
17:06:40 <dustymabe> i'm not sure how valid of a concern that is since anyone attached to this channel can log/track
17:06:45 <patux> +1
17:06:56 <ashcrow> dustymabe: that's a fair dislike but being on a public channel it already happens by clients
17:06:57 <ashcrow> yeah
17:07:04 <jlebon> a requirement should be a msg on channel join that msgs are logged
17:07:13 <jlebon> i think the #coreos one does this
17:07:26 <lorbus> jlebon: +1
17:07:30 <drakonis> can the channel opt out at any time?
17:07:34 * walters notes the irony of voting on a logged irc meeting about logging irc
17:07:34 <dustymabe> ok. I'll add info to the ticket, but we'll also need to notify the mailing list and the pa.io meeting that happens occasionally
17:07:47 <dustymabe> walters: :)
17:08:01 <ashcrow> haha
17:08:03 <drakonis> can the logs be removed from botbot at any point?
17:08:34 <drakonis> just to avoid that eventual "embarassing thing logged for eternity" situation
17:08:46 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to update the botbot ticket with information from meeting
17:08:51 <dustymabe> drakonis: I don't know about that
17:09:11 <dustymabe> ok next ticket
17:09:14 * jbrooks notifies everyone -- I have logs on my machine :)
17:09:32 <dustymabe> #topic  Container Release
17:09:38 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/439
17:10:03 <cverna> hey I can give a bit of background here
17:10:09 <dustymabe> yay cverna!
17:10:16 <dustymabe> I realize I forgot to chair everyone
17:10:19 <dustymabe> will do that now
17:10:43 <dustymabe> #chair cverna drakonis jlebon lorbus ashcrow patux ksinny walters mheon ashcrow jbrooks
17:10:43 <zodbot> Current chairs: ashcrow cverna drakonis dustymabe jbrooks jlebon ksinny lorbus mheon patux walters
17:10:44 <cverna> basically the container release is not doing great and before trying to fix the tooling I think it is important to understand
17:10:58 <cverna> what we are trying to achieve and what we want to release
17:11:43 <cverna> the idea is to release every 2 weeks only the containers based on the current stable fedora release
17:12:02 <cverna> and the next fedora release so we can do some test
17:12:45 <dustymabe> cverna: so I gave some feedback in the ticket yesterday
17:13:23 <cverna> yes saw that
17:13:27 <dustymabe> seems sane to me. one problem I see is if the maintainer didn't build for 'current stable' yet
17:13:35 <dustymabe> i wonder if there will be corner cases
17:13:55 <dustymabe> I think it would be important to try to ask adam miller for input on the proposal as well
17:14:06 <dustymabe> can you send him an email with a link to the ticket and ask him for input?
17:14:16 <cverna> I don't think we can remove old images from the registry but maybe we can remove the latest tag
17:14:25 <cverna> ok I can do that
17:14:55 <dustymabe> so you don't think we could move EOL images under a different namespace?
17:15:19 <cverna> oh ok maybe a different namespace would work
17:16:05 <dustymabe> right so f26/nginx:latest now goes under eol/f26/nginx:latest
17:16:07 <dustymabe> or something like that
17:16:28 <dustymabe> basically: let's make it so people using an image that is EOL doesn't continue to use it forever
17:16:34 <cverna> ok I ll add more details to the ticket and try to get some feedback from adam
17:17:04 <dustymabe> anybody else with comments for the proposal from cverna ?
17:17:26 <dustymabe> i would encourage everyone to cverna++ if they haven't already too
17:17:50 <lorbus> cookieparty! :D
17:17:51 <jbrooks> cverna++
17:17:51 <zodbot> jbrooks: Karma for cverna changed to 21 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:17:55 <drakonis> cverna++
17:17:55 <zodbot> drakonis: Karma for cverna changed to 22 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:17:55 <lorbus> cverna++
17:17:57 <rubao> cverna++
17:17:58 <zodbot> lorbus: Karma for cverna changed to 23 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:17:58 <cverna> haha I ll keep coming every week to get cookies :)
17:18:02 <lorbus> dustymabe++
17:18:06 <dustymabe> #action cverna to add some more details to the ticket and email adam miller for feedback
17:18:09 <cverna> thanks guys
17:18:24 <dustymabe> ok.. open floor time
17:18:27 <dustymabe> #topic open floor
17:18:34 <dustymabe> anyone with anything for open floor?
17:18:44 <jbrooks> cverna, my kubernetes-master and kubernetes-node containers for 28 built, but I need them released before I can build their children
17:18:48 <patux> cverna++
17:18:48 <zodbot> patux: Karma for cverna changed to 24 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:18:57 * ksinny thinks multiple cookies should have been allowed :)
17:19:05 <lorbus> I have some feedback regarding the VFAD :)
17:19:17 <cverna> jbrooks: ok i ll releng to do that
17:19:20 <lorbus> sanja: is not here though?!
17:19:24 <jbrooks> cverna, I've considered whether I should just remake them not to use the inherited thing
17:19:34 <dustymabe> lorbus: I think she is running a workshop in berlin
17:19:44 <dustymabe> if you hurry you might be able to catch her :)
17:19:57 <drakonis> we should look at packaging for other distros
17:20:21 <jbrooks> packaging what?
17:20:22 <drakonis> see what's worth packaging right now
17:20:26 <dustymabe> lorbus: you can leave the feedback here and also reach out to her directly
17:20:43 <lorbus> dustymabe, sanja: I had some thoughts regarding the atomic branding strategy. They were kind of high level and all over the place, so I was gonna do a quick recording with a whiteboard
17:20:46 <drakonis> buildah and skopeo i'd say
17:20:50 <lorbus> will send you a link
17:20:55 <dustymabe> lorbus: sounds great
17:21:02 <drakonis> but i assume this falls within the scope of project atomic and not fedora atomic
17:21:17 <jbrooks> drakonis, that's the sort of thing we need project atomic meetings for vs the fedora atomic wg,
17:21:20 <jbrooks> right
17:21:20 <dustymabe> drakonis: yeah the line is a bit blurry.. but your suggestion is welcome
17:21:34 <dustymabe> mheon: do you know what is packaged for other distros?
17:21:45 <dustymabe> non-fedora distros
17:22:10 <jbrooks> https://launchpad.net/~projectatomic/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
17:22:17 <mheon> dustymabe: we have ubuntu packages for CRI-O, podman, skopeo, but in a PPA
17:22:20 <mheon> not official
17:22:28 <dustymabe> drakonis: ^^
17:22:34 <dustymabe> does that help?
17:22:53 <drakonis> it helps a little bit, it'd be best to get them into debian, as it would automatically fall into ubuntu's repos
17:22:57 <mheon> i have seen an official debian packaging request for skopeo
17:23:08 <dustymabe> drakonis: would you be able to help?
17:23:08 <mheon> but haven't checked on that in a whole
17:23:36 <drakonis> i'll look into it, should be an good exercise in packaging for debian
17:24:08 <dustymabe> drakonis: can you work with mheon when you do so.. mheon can you help out drakonis when he has questions?
17:24:29 <mheon> dustymabe: sure, but lsm5 (i don't think he's in channel, but i think he hangs around in #atomic) is probably a better source
17:24:43 <mheon> he's responsible for the PPAs, and all our RPMs
17:24:52 <dustymabe> ok
17:25:08 <dustymabe> drakonis do you want to open an atomic-wg issue and we'll track work/discussion there?
17:26:21 <drakonis> sure
17:27:26 <dustymabe> #action drakonis to open an atomic-wg issue to track container tools in debian discussion
17:27:27 <dustymabe> cool
17:27:35 <dustymabe> anyone else with anything for open floor ?
17:29:50 <drakonis> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/440
17:30:06 <dustymabe> ok closing meeting in a minute or so
17:30:40 <lorbus> dustymabe thanks for hosting!
17:30:49 <rubao> dustymabe++
17:31:21 <cverna> thanks dustymabe
17:31:24 <dustymabe> #endmeeting