17:00:16 <dustymabe> #startmeeting atomic-wg
17:00:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 12 17:00:16 2017 UTC.  The chair is dustymabe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'atomic-wg'
17:00:41 <trishnag> .hello trishnag
17:00:42 <zodbot> trishnag: trishnag 'Trishna Guha' <trishnaguha17@gmail.com>
17:00:48 <roshi> .hello roshi
17:00:49 <zodbot> roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' <mruckman@redhat.com>
17:00:53 <yzhang> .hello yzhang
17:00:54 <zodbot> yzhang: yzhang 'Yu Qi Zhang' <jzehrarnyg@gmail.com>
17:00:58 <dustymabe> #topic roll call
17:01:02 <jbrooks> .fas jasonbrooks
17:01:03 <miabbott> .hello miabbott
17:01:04 <dustymabe> .hellomynameis dustymabe
17:01:04 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:01:07 <zodbot> miabbott: miabbott 'Micah Abbott' <miabbott@redhat.com>
17:01:10 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:01:14 <jberkus> .hello jberkus
17:01:15 <zodbot> jberkus: jberkus 'Josh Berkus' <josh@agliodbs.com>
17:02:08 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:02:09 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:02:21 <dustymabe> yay - waiting just another minute and then we'll get started
17:03:21 <dustymabe> #topic container tickets
17:03:36 <dustymabe> ok all - we've been doing a decent amount of letting these tickets rot
17:03:40 <dustymabe> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issues?status=Open&tags=containers
17:03:56 <yzhang> thats a lot of tickets
17:04:00 <dustymabe> let's find the ones that have open questions in this meeting right now and try to find some resolution on them
17:04:11 <jberkus> yah, sorry, I was being The Wandering Jew for all of March
17:04:13 <dustymabe> yzhang: yeah the early ones are task based
17:04:25 <dustymabe> yzhang: look at the more recent ones
17:04:43 <yzhang> gotcha
17:04:56 <dustymabe> basically can we please go through them and identify ones with open questions
17:05:24 <dustymabe> if you find one with some sort of open question please link it here and let's either try to resolve it here or in the ticket
17:05:34 <yzhang> I think some of them were action items from last week
17:05:50 <dustymabe> yzhang: damn, i forgot to go through action items from last week
17:05:54 <dustymabe> ok - let's do that first
17:06:00 <dustymabe> # topic action items from last week
17:06:09 <linuxmodder> .hello linuxmodder
17:06:10 <zodbot> linuxmodder: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@openmailbox.org>
17:06:26 <dustymabe> * yzhang to update guidelines RE #253
17:06:28 <dustymabe> * jbrooks to notify container maintainers of guideline change
17:06:30 <dustymabe> * jbrooks to add layered image section to guidelines RE 248
17:06:32 <dustymabe> * miabbott to add example of explicit registry inclusion to container
17:06:34 <dustymabe> guidelines
17:07:06 <jbrooks> dustymabe, I haven't updated the guide yet, but I'll do that today
17:07:18 <yzhang> I have updated the guidelines for labels, I think for that ticket, all that's left to do is notify existing maintainers?
17:07:26 <jbrooks> I'm waiting till we have all the things we'll want to notify maintainers about settled to notify them
17:07:26 <yzhang> I'm not sure if that email went out at some point and I missed it
17:07:28 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
17:07:29 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
17:07:36 <yzhang> jbrooks: gotcha
17:07:43 <jberkus> dustymabe: I feel strongly that we should close the various issues and update the guidelines all at once
17:08:03 <miabbott> dustymabe: added a section about FROM to the guidelines - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Container:Guidelines#FROM
17:08:14 <miabbott> there was no ticket attached to my action item, though
17:08:26 <dustymabe> jberkus: if you can take the lead on that and do it, then I'm happy with closing them
17:08:50 <jberkus> no, I mean "before we send out notices to all maintainers"
17:08:53 <dustymabe> jberkus: maybe open a new ticket with a summary and bullet from each previous ticket
17:09:01 <dustymabe> jberkus: oh, ok
17:09:05 <jberkus> but yeah, we should be able to close all container labelling changes this week
17:09:21 <yzhang> hows the migration going maxamillion
17:09:44 <dustymabe> jbrooks: can you open a new ticket that has a list of things to update maintainers about in the description of the ticket?
17:09:50 <jbrooks> dustymabe, yeah
17:09:59 <dustymabe> and we can add to that list as we go, and close out all tickets that are pending that notification happening?
17:10:08 <yzhang> is there something tracking the "docker"->"container" namespace change?
17:11:20 <jbrooks> pagure is failwhaling
17:11:24 <dustymabe> damn, pagure just died on me
17:12:07 <dustymabe> hmm
17:12:42 <dustymabe> maybe we can take this period of pagure downtime to discuss
17:12:48 <dustymabe> yzhang: I don't know of anyone tracking that change
17:12:51 <dustymabe> maxamillion: do you ?
17:13:16 <yzhang> I think maxamillion is in his conflicting meeting
17:13:22 <yzhang> He'll be back eventually
17:13:38 <dustymabe> yeah
17:13:55 <maxamillion> sorry, in multiple meetings
17:14:34 <dustymabe> #action jbrooks to open ticket to track all the guidelines changes we need to update maintainers about
17:14:58 <jbrooks> pagure is back
17:16:16 <dustymabe> ok miabbott, you change wasn't related to any ticket?
17:17:04 <miabbott> dustymabe: i think it was loosely related to one of the label tickets, but nothing explicit
17:17:20 <dustymabe> miabbott: looks like this one: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/248
17:17:32 <maxamillion> I'm here, what's up?
17:17:44 <dustymabe> maxamillion: was asking about 13:10:08      yzhang | is there something tracking the "docker"->"container" namespace change?
17:17:49 <miabbott> dustymabe: that looks relevant
17:17:54 <maxamillion> "something" ... no :/
17:18:00 <dustymabe> miabbott: can you update the ticket with that information and close it?
17:18:13 <maxamillion> I probably should have made that more transparent ... I just have a list of tasks on my personal tracker
17:18:13 <miabbott> okey dokey
17:18:13 <dustymabe> maxamillion: should we open a ticket to track it ?
17:18:36 <maxamillion> dustymabe: isn't there already a ticket asking for it? I'll just update it if there is, otherwise yes lets do that
17:18:38 <dustymabe> #action miabbott to update #248 and close the ticket
17:18:47 <dustymabe> maxamillion: /me searches
17:19:14 <dustymabe> maxamillion: i don't think so
17:19:38 <jberkus> is there some reason not to close it right now?  it's resolved
17:19:57 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to open ticket to track "docker"->"container" namespace change in fedora dist-git
17:20:08 <sayan> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/5919
17:20:11 <maxamillion> dustymabe: ah ok, I thought there was because that came as an action item for me from a previous meeting (or the VFAD? I don't remember)
17:20:13 <dustymabe> jberkus: sure, he is doing that
17:20:54 <dustymabe> sayan: that ticket shows as "fixed"
17:21:39 <sayan> afaik pingou closed it today itself
17:22:03 <dustymabe> ok i'll link to it in the ticket I open - maybe it's done, maybe not
17:22:10 <dustymabe> we'll keep an eye on it though
17:22:48 <dustymabe> ok let's move to our original topic
17:22:54 <dustymabe> #topic container tickets
17:23:08 <jberkus> dustymabe: shall we go through them in order?
17:23:17 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issues?status=Open&tags=containers
17:23:28 <dustymabe> jberkus: i don't know if we have time for that
17:23:39 <dustymabe> i'd rather people go through and then bring up ones they want to discuss
17:24:18 <jberkus> well, I want to discuss them all, so let's get started
17:24:37 <jberkus> #242
17:24:44 <jberkus> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/242
17:24:55 <jberkus> this is just missing description in ContainerGuidelines
17:25:03 <jberkus> Dusty volunteered to write it
17:25:17 <dustymabe> jberkus: indeed,
17:25:21 <dustymabe> wow -
17:25:34 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to write description for #242
17:25:53 <jberkus> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/243
17:25:56 <jberkus> this one's complicated
17:26:07 <jberkus> I feel like we need a live chat with some of the folks on Atomic CLI
17:26:29 <dustymabe> sounds good to me as a breakout session
17:26:33 <dustymabe> jberkus: can you lead that?
17:26:53 <yzhang> I feel like for 243, aren't we basically doing that in "help"?
17:27:02 <jberkus> oh, wait, I'm confused, there's two tickets associated with HELP/Description
17:27:16 <jberkus> actually, three
17:27:27 <jberkus> #255 and #256 as well
17:27:55 <dustymabe> jberkus: and look at #267
17:28:20 <jberkus> 267 isn't even tagged with "container"
17:28:30 <dustymabe> jberkus: it was recently opened, i just tagged it
17:28:40 <dustymabe> was opened 6 hours ago
17:30:13 <jberkus> action: jberkus to convene folks to discuss Help/Description
17:30:33 <dustymabe> jberkus: did that work?
17:30:46 <dustymabe> don't you have to put the # in front?
17:30:50 <jberkus> oh, right
17:30:55 <jberkus> #action: jberkus to convene folks to discuss Help/Description
17:31:06 <dustymabe> i want to add to it
17:31:08 <dustymabe> #undo
17:31:08 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by jberkus at 17:30:55 : : jberkus to convene folks to discuss Help/Description
17:31:16 <roshi> you have to have a # and have chair
17:31:42 <dustymabe> #action jberkus to convene folks to discuss Help/Description and consolidate #243 #255 #257 and #267 if possible
17:32:02 <dustymabe> i mispelled something didn't I
17:32:09 <dustymabe> words
17:32:28 <dustymabe> ok #244 ?
17:32:29 <roshi> we should add more people as chair so they can do #action
17:32:31 <roshi> and whatnot
17:32:49 <dustymabe> #chair jberkus roshi maxamillion yzhang jbrooks trishnag sayan walters miabbott
17:32:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jberkus jbrooks maxamillion miabbott roshi sayan trishnag walters yzhang
17:32:53 <dustymabe> not sure who I missed
17:32:53 <jberkus> maxamillion: re #255, can you comment on that issue?  we need someone from infra to say yes/no
17:33:29 <maxamillion> jberkus: looking
17:34:25 <dustymabe> ok, while he looks we'll move on to #244
17:34:25 <jberkus> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/244
17:34:29 <jberkus> that's done
17:34:39 <jberkus> so I just assigned it to jasonbrooks for tracking
17:34:43 <dustymabe> k
17:35:23 <dustymabe> for #249 - we are waiting on work from infra
17:35:41 <jberkus> was going to ask
17:35:49 <jberkus> #254
17:35:56 <jberkus> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/254
17:35:59 <jberkus> this came up after the VFAD
17:36:52 <jberkus> maxamillion: presumably we don't have any news on how the version/rpm thing is going to work yet, correct?
17:36:56 * roshi goes to refresh coffee - brb
17:37:10 <dustymabe> jberkus: your last statement seems a bit interesting
17:37:12 <maxamillion> jberkus: what?
17:37:20 <dustymabe> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/254#comment-431956
17:37:50 <maxamillion> jberkus: oh no, that's still on my TODO list but I have high priority work I have to finish for RelEng Tooling before Fedora 26 GA so I'm not going to look at that stuff for a bit
17:37:57 <jberkus> yes, that was in response to various theories of how to "automatically" figure out a primary RPM
17:38:06 <jberkus> maxamillion: ok, will update with status
17:38:48 <jbrooks> I think it makes sense to ask the maintainer to include the primary pkg
17:38:58 <jberkus> maxamillion: for #255, should I have a real concern that we'll want to someday change the dist-git URLs?  Or is that fairly unlikely?
17:40:07 <maxamillion> jberkus: what do you mean by "change dist-gut urls?" ... like not use pkgs.fedoraproject.org anymore?
17:40:43 <jberkus> maxamillion: under some circumstances, the HELP label may link the dist-git URL where a copy of the help.1 or help.md file lives
17:40:46 <jbrooks> aren't we going to use pagure at some point? I guess the urls could be the same...
17:41:09 * roshi back
17:41:15 <dustymabe> even if we do change the urls it's a simple find/replace
17:41:33 <dustymabe> well, not so simple, but should be easy
17:41:35 <jberkus> however, I'm now thinking this discussion is premature, because per $256/267, we might not use the URL at all.  So please ignore #255 for now
17:41:47 <maxamillion> jberkus: alright
17:41:53 <dustymabe> ok, what's left
17:42:17 <jberkus> 258, adding ContainerGenericLabels
17:42:22 <jberkus> it seems clear we should link to the doc
17:42:38 <jberkus> open question is: should we specifically list the labels we think are applicable to fedora containers?
17:42:42 <jberkus> since not all of them are
17:43:04 <jberkus> or should we just link, because the ContainerGenericLabels may change?
17:43:26 <dustymabe> maybe we should just link to them and mention some that may be "interesting"
17:43:34 <dustymabe> but don't give guidance on which ones to use or not use
17:43:52 <dustymabe> ultimately leaving the source of truth as the linked doc
17:44:11 <jberkus> OK
17:44:48 <jberkus> any I've missed?
17:45:31 <yzhang> Don't think so
17:45:35 <dustymabe> #233
17:45:56 <dustymabe> where do we sit there?
17:46:18 <jbrooks> That's done, I think
17:46:20 <yzhang> isn't that basically resolved?
17:46:27 <miabbott> agreed
17:46:32 <dustymabe> do we need to notify maintainers?
17:46:34 <dustymabe> of anything
17:46:54 <jbrooks> Hmm, do we have any of these yet?
17:47:00 <jbrooks> in the registry
17:47:07 <dustymabe> not that I know of, maxamillion ^^ ?
17:47:17 <dustymabe> do we have any constainers that use systemd in our registry
17:47:26 <jberkus> #233 seems to be resolved?
17:47:41 <jberkus> and we don't need to notify maintainers specifically of that one
17:47:47 <jberkus> also, #234
17:47:48 <dustymabe> jberkus: right, just need to know "do we need to notify maintainers of anything" and then close it
17:47:56 <jberkus> my vote: no
17:48:23 <dustymabe> #action jberkus to close #233 and we don't need to notify maintainers of anything
17:48:40 <dustymabe> jberkus: now we are talking about #234?
17:48:43 <jberkus> yes
17:48:57 <jberkus> so for that, I think I just need to merge jhogarth's text into the container guidelines
17:49:16 <dustymabe> ok
17:49:30 <dustymabe> #action jberkus to merge in suggested text from #234 into the container guidelines
17:49:39 <jberkus> however, people should LOOK at that text to make sure that they agree with the guidelines
17:49:49 <jberkus> we're taking some specific opinions there
17:49:52 <jberkus> on volumes
17:50:20 <dustymabe> yep
17:50:29 <dustymabe> ok I think we are done with container tickets!
17:50:36 <dustymabe> great job getting through that
17:50:50 <dustymabe> there was at least one other item for us to go through today
17:51:05 <dustymabe> #topic 2WK Atomic Release Criteria
17:51:11 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/264
17:51:43 <roshi> just as a point of clarification - when I refer to these, I mean specifically as tied to the 2wk release
17:52:04 <roshi> something separate from the criteria mattdm proposed on the cloud list
17:52:09 <jberkus> jbrooks: #234 will require notifying the maintainers
17:52:13 <dustymabe> jberkus: maxamillion can you vote on that ticket and we'll close it out ?
17:52:26 <jbrooks> ok
17:53:04 <roshi> dustymabe: was there more to discuss on these criteria?
17:53:12 * roshi thought this was done already
17:53:33 <maxamillion> dustymabe: can do
17:53:34 <dustymabe> roshi: not that I know of - i read through what you had last week and it looked ok - at least as a start - don't know if we'll have to add to that in the future or not
17:53:48 <roshi> we might in the future, but I think they work for right now
17:53:50 <jberkus> roshi: for criteria, do we want to require the ability to run a system container as well?
17:53:52 <dustymabe> #action jberkus maxamillion to vote on ticket #264
17:53:52 <roshi> still open to comments though
17:54:05 <maxamillion> dustymabe: oh that one was easy, I already read that doc a few days ago :)
17:54:05 <miabbott> roshi: i made some edits to your wiki page last week
17:54:23 <roshi> that'd be a good one - though I'd want someone more familiar with them to write it
17:55:01 <dustymabe> ok moving on
17:55:12 <dustymabe> any other "tickets" anyone wants to bring up before open floor?
17:55:51 <roshi> those look good miabbott :)
17:55:52 <roshi> thanks
17:56:00 <dustymabe> #topic open floor
17:56:15 * roshi has nothing
17:56:21 <dustymabe> FYI we missed our atomic release yesterday - it will most likely go out next week
17:56:31 <dustymabe> when the new kernel comes through the pipeline
17:56:54 <maxamillion> docker->container namespace migration is under way, should be done (for the most part) by the end of the day ... I'll email about it to announce
17:57:14 <dustymabe> maxamillion: wow - so maybe no need for me to create a ticket on that then
17:57:16 <yzhang> maxamillion++
17:57:28 <jberkus> commented
17:57:33 <maxamillion> dustymabe: yeah, that work started weeks ago :)
17:57:42 <dustymabe> hmm what is announce?
17:57:47 <dustymabe> is there a list I'm not on
17:57:54 <jberkus> you've posted to it
17:58:02 <maxamillion> dustymabe: no no, I mean I will email to announce the change and details
17:58:07 <yzhang> I think "announce" was a verb there
17:58:19 <dustymabe> haha, i thought it was like fedora announce list
17:58:21 <maxamillion> also FYI, I'm at Dockercon all next week so will miss the meeting, I will be available in the evenings for the 2WA release and container release though
17:58:21 <dustymabe> :)
17:58:38 <roshi> fun times
17:58:52 <dustymabe> maxamillion: yeah, going to release a new 2WA as soon as we have the new kernel in and tested
17:58:55 <dustymabe> i'll send you emails theres
17:59:11 <dustymabe> maxamillion: are you holding the container releases until the 2WA goes out?
17:59:26 <dustymabe> i don't really see why we need to lock them together
17:59:56 <maxamillion> dustymabe: I am
18:00:19 <maxamillion> dustymabe: because we decided in the past that was going to be a thing and when the automation goes live, it will literally be linked together in process
18:00:29 <dustymabe> ok
18:00:41 <dustymabe> sorry that the "kernel" is causing a delay of container releases :(
18:00:55 <dustymabe> ok, times up
18:00:59 * dustymabe sets fuse
18:01:04 <maxamillion> dustymabe: if we want to change that later in time, that's fine
18:02:00 <dustymabe> maxamillion: yeah, i'd prefer to have them not locked together and working independent of one another - if they are fully automated it shouldn't matter if they are locked together or not
18:02:16 <dustymabe> only benefit i can think of is that we can "announce" at approximately the same time
18:02:22 <dustymabe> 3..
18:02:24 <dustymabe> 2..
18:02:26 <dustymabe> 1..
18:02:28 <dustymabe> #endmeeting