fedora-meeting-1
MINUTES
17:03:51 <dustymabe> #startmeeting cloud_wg
17:03:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov  4 17:03:51 2015 UTC.  The chair is dustymabe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:03:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:03:59 <rtnpro> .fas rtnpro
17:03:59 <zodbot> rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' <rtnpro@gmail.com>
17:04:01 <kushal> I am not here (mostly) :(
17:04:04 <dustymabe> #topic rollcall
17:04:07 <jzb> kushal: :-(
17:04:12 <jbrooks> .fas jasonbrooks
17:04:12 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:04:14 <rtnpro> .fas rtnpro
17:04:16 <zodbot> rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' <rtnpro@gmail.com>
17:04:19 <scollier> .hello scollier
17:04:22 <zodbot> scollier: scollier 'Scott Collier' <emailscottcollier@gmail.com>
17:04:51 <dustymabe> #chair scollier rtnpro jzb jbrooks
17:04:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks jzb rtnpro scollier
17:04:53 <jzb> .fas jzb
17:04:53 <zodbot> jzb: jzb 'Joe Brockmeier' <jzb@redhat.com> - jzbl 'Denise Gant' <denise2gant@gmail.com>
17:04:56 <jzb> sigh
17:05:02 <jzb> .hellomynameis jzb
17:05:03 <zodbot> jzb: jzb 'Joe Brockmeier' <jzb@redhat.com>
17:05:13 <dustymabe> haha jzbl??
17:05:14 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:05:14 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:05:20 <dustymabe> #chair maxamillion
17:05:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks jzb maxamillion rtnpro scollier
17:05:27 * gholms waves
17:05:56 <dustymabe> #chair gholms
17:05:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe gholms jbrooks jzb maxamillion rtnpro scollier
17:06:09 <dustymabe> everyone gets a chair :)
17:06:18 * gholms shrugs, takes a seat, then  :)
17:06:27 <Guest38814> .fas sayanchowdhury
17:06:28 <zodbot> Guest38814: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
17:06:46 <dustymabe> sayan do you want to fix that name?
17:07:14 <dustymabe> # last week action items
17:07:20 <dustymabe> I am going to do them by person this time
17:07:25 <Guest38814> dustymabe, having network issues, too much lag :(
17:07:32 <dustymabe> dustymabe to integrate cloud WG and 2 week atomic efforts
17:07:33 <dustymabe> dustymabe to close ticket 94 and open a couple more specific tickets
17:08:16 <dustymabe> I failed on both of these because of a lot of other stuff going around.. will carry them forward
17:08:27 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to integrate cloud WG and 2 week atomic efforts
17:08:33 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to close ticket 94 and open a couple more specific tickets
17:08:40 <dustymabe> ok other action items:
17:08:46 <dustymabe> jzb to write up a magazine article on bootstrapping if the pitch is accepted for the magazine
17:08:48 <dustymabe> after F23 GA, jzb to schedule a meeting between the groups for a strategy discussion
17:08:50 <dustymabe> jzb to start discuss thread on cloud/atomic/server wg stuff
17:09:03 <jzb> I did that!
17:09:07 <dustymabe> jzb: I wrote an article on ansible so I think that one is taken care of?
17:10:13 <jzb> dustymabe: Yes
17:10:40 <dustymabe> ok and the other items were taken care of by your mail list thread?
17:10:51 <jzb> dustymabe: I think so, yes
17:10:53 <maxamillion> dustymabe: I need to follow up with you about the integration with two week atomic at some point, I'd like to know what the scope of that is ... there's a lot going on around all of that at the moment
17:10:59 <jzb> I don't think we've actually come to any conclusion
17:11:21 <dustymabe> maxamillion: we'd love to have everyone involved join us here
17:11:48 <dustymabe> we should probably be all in the same group
17:12:04 <dustymabe> jzb: right
17:12:34 <maxamillion> dustymabe: it's ReleaseEngineering, we cover all of Fedora, I don't think it's realistic for us to attend every single Fedora meeting ... we'd never get anything done
17:12:37 <dustymabe> I really think it would be best to get interested parties in a room (and on video chat for those who couldn't make it) and hash it out
17:12:42 <dustymabe> get everyone on the same page
17:13:20 <dustymabe> my previous two statements were meant for jzb
17:13:29 <maxamillion> I also don't think it's realistic to go "oh hey, we want to integrate with what you're doing ... come join us" ... should be the other way around
17:13:37 <maxamillion> alright
17:13:52 <dustymabe> maxamillion: ok.
17:14:17 <dustymabe> let's talk about this soon.. whether they come to us or we go to them I think we should all be together
17:14:24 <jbrooks> I'm interested in understanding fedora's atomic processes -- tell me what to read / where to show up and I'm there
17:14:35 <dustymabe> at least for a meeting or something during the week
17:14:39 <jzb> (Just a sec)
17:14:59 <maxamillion> dustymabe: it's not a "us" or "them" ... I am part of "them" ... it's just a matter of organizational concern
17:15:20 <maxamillion> dustymabe: we'll chat off-meeting, we'll get it sorted
17:15:51 <dustymabe> I get it.. but if we put all of the burden on releng for delivering two week atomic then that kinda sucks right? and we are just sitting here making decisions that they have no part in (obviously you are part of "they" too)
17:16:22 <dustymabe> I'm just saying let's integrate somehow.. ok let's talk after meeting
17:16:39 <dustymabe> final action items are: roshi to put in for the magazine pitch
17:16:48 <dustymabe> roshi: I'm not sure what that one was about
17:18:15 <dustymabe> I actually think that was about ansible too
17:18:22 <dustymabe> I looked at the logs
17:18:29 <dustymabe> so I guess that one is taken care of
17:18:30 <jzb> (Yes, dustymabe agree)
17:18:41 <dustymabe> so I'm the only one with action items to carry forward :)
17:18:45 <dustymabe> \o/
17:18:54 <jzb> (so far)
17:18:55 * dustymabe needs to learn to do his own AI and not others
17:18:58 <maxamillion> dustymabe: wait, what about ansible?
17:19:07 <dustymabe> maxamillion: fed mag post
17:19:13 <maxamillion> dustymabe: oh ok
17:19:20 <dustymabe> educating people on how to work around ansible+python3 issue
17:19:38 <dustymabe> ok tickets
17:19:56 <dustymabe> #topic Migrate all Dockerfiles / Images to systemd where possible
17:20:05 <dustymabe> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/121
17:20:47 <dustymabe> scollier: praveenkumar ^^
17:21:19 <maxamillion> dustymabe: it should largely be a non-issue with Atomic
17:21:22 * scollier looks
17:21:54 <praveenkumar> dustymabe: so I made all changes and I think we can migrate other docker file also.
17:22:25 <praveenkumar> dustymabe: I will wait for scollier signal.
17:22:27 <scollier> dustymabe, i have not seen a PR come in on that
17:22:37 <scollier> praveenkumar, ^
17:23:41 <praveenkumar> scollier: I will send PR soon, on ticket I just put my finding to open a discussion.
17:23:47 <dustymabe> cool
17:23:49 <dustymabe> thanks guys
17:23:51 <scollier> praveenkumar, ack.  thx
17:24:12 <dustymabe> #topic fedora-dockerfiles: Clean up READMEs.
17:24:19 <dustymabe> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/122
17:24:32 <dustymabe> coolsvap: ^^
17:25:36 <dustymabe> looks like he isn't here
17:25:36 <praveenkumar> dustymabe: I don't know if coolsvap is there, I will ask him to update on that ticket.
17:25:43 <dustymabe> praveenkumar: thanks
17:25:46 <imcleod> .hellomynameis imcleod
17:25:56 <dustymabe> welcome imcleod
17:25:59 <dustymabe> #chair imcleod
17:25:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe gholms imcleod jbrooks jzb maxamillion rtnpro scollier
17:26:10 <zodbot> imcleod: imcleod 'Ian McLeod' <imcleod@redhat.com>
17:26:17 <dustymabe> #topic Document process for using Fedora-Dockerfile branches
17:26:23 <dustymabe> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/123
17:27:38 <dustymabe> looks like adimania is not here this week
17:27:59 <dustymabe> moving on
17:28:12 <dustymabe> #topic Fedora-Dockerfiles examples for Kubernetes
17:28:18 <dustymabe> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/125
17:28:37 <dustymabe> scollier: ^^
17:29:02 <scollier> dustymabe, was it ever settled where to put these?  i thought there was a thread on it discussin.
17:29:26 <dustymabe> i really don't knnow
17:29:43 <scollier> dustymabe, ok, let me follow up on that then.
17:30:00 <dustymabe> this sounds really close to just merging these in and making them either atomicapps or using something like helm from deis
17:30:11 <dustymabe> same thing really
17:30:20 <dustymabe> ok moving on
17:30:35 <dustymabe> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/125
17:30:38 <dustymabe> crap
17:30:42 <dustymabe> #topic Working with the Server WG
17:30:49 <dustymabe> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/127
17:30:55 <dustymabe> jzb sent a mail on this
17:31:00 <dustymabe> progress pending??
17:31:13 <maxamillion> yeah, still ongoing conversation it seems
17:31:24 <maxamillion> the thread is at least not stale so I'd call that progress
17:31:26 <jzb> yeah, still ongoing
17:31:33 <dustymabe> maybe we can co-locate a server+cloud FAD or something
17:31:39 <dustymabe> ok moving on
17:31:48 <dustymabe> #topic make docker archived image get imported with lowercase tag
17:31:55 <dustymabe> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/131
17:32:18 <dustymabe> so we probably need to fix the tools
17:32:33 <dustymabe> as well as update the docker html page for f23 to let them know?
17:32:53 <dustymabe> https://getfedora.org/en/cloud/download/docker.html
17:33:19 <maxamillion> huh?
17:33:32 <dustymabe> maxamillion: lost?
17:33:35 <imcleod> dustymabe: IIRC, we found that this inherits from the "pseudo package name" that is used to build the image in koji.
17:33:50 <maxamillion> dustymabe: what needs fixing about the website?
17:34:06 <dustymabe> maxamillion: we should probably have the user tag the docker image with something they can use
17:34:14 <maxamillion> dustymabe: oh ok
17:34:36 <imcleod> dustymabe: You showed a fix for the releng scripts but it was rather late in the cycle for F23 and may have had side effects we didn't know about.  (dgilmore may comment)
17:34:53 <dustymabe> yeah that's right. so I say we fix it for F24?
17:34:57 <maxamillion> dustymabe: we also push to the docker hub, currently fedora:latest and fedora:23 are up there ... that was live about 45 minutes before Fedora 23 was officially released on the mirrors
17:35:14 * roshi just got back from an appt
17:35:15 <imcleod> dustymabe: I could fix this in Factory, and probably should.  If uppercase tags are not acceptable then I should not be generating base images that contain them.
17:35:17 <roshi> sorry for being late
17:35:26 <maxamillion> roshi: *jeez* ;)
17:35:26 <dustymabe> imcleod: right
17:35:30 <dustymabe> can we open a bug for that?
17:35:43 <imcleod> dustymabe: I'll do it in github right now.
17:35:57 <dustymabe> maxamillion: the ones in the hub are fine
17:36:19 <dustymabe> imcleod: thanks.. then maybe put a link to the work in the ticket?
17:36:44 <imcleod> dustymabe: https://github.com/redhat-imaging/imagefactory/issues/359
17:36:58 <imcleod> dustymabe: This is also a good reminder that there's a backlog of issues from 2014 that I should close out.  Sigh.
17:37:22 <dustymabe> imcleod: :(
17:37:37 <dustymabe> does someone want to take an AI to get the website updated?
17:38:57 <jzb> dustymabe: usually I would, but PTO
17:39:15 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to get website updated for docker image tags issue
17:39:21 <dustymabe> ok moving to open floor
17:39:26 <dustymabe> #topic open floor
17:39:44 <dustymabe> so vagrant images are in atlas.. and I'm going to do a fed mag post about it soon
17:39:48 <mattdm> dustymabe++
17:39:55 <dustymabe> we also need to do some work to hand this off to releng
17:40:16 <dustymabe> https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/133
17:40:25 <dustymabe> I opened that ticket to  track it
17:40:59 <spstarr> I've been working on making a VM image that is self-replaceable... I have figured it out CentOS and Fedora so far (cloud-init part not yet)
17:41:25 <mattdm> spstarr self-replacable?
17:41:45 <spstarr> its not too complex, but I hope to turn this shell code and port to livemedia-creator
17:41:47 <spstarr> mattdm: yes
17:42:12 <mattdm> what does that mean? :)
17:42:43 <maxamillion> dustymabe: that might be a problem
17:42:50 <spstarr> the VM image contains one partition, /boot which uses extlinux bootloader as a 'stub' a vmlinuz + initrd.img which inside contains the live fileysstem (install.img or squashfs.img)
17:42:56 <maxamillion> dustymabe: we got ping'd by legal about Fedora images being in Atlas
17:43:05 <maxamillion> dustymabe: need to follow up on that
17:43:19 <dustymabe> maxamillion: I don't know why. I got a thumbs up from legal like 2 weeks ago
17:43:24 <dustymabe> mattdm was on the mail
17:43:31 <spstarr> mattdm: so, you can upload this 'stub' VM and turn it into an AMI, when you reuse it again it installs the OS from a kickstart provided via cloud-init to anaconda
17:43:37 * mattdm confirms ack by legal
17:44:02 <maxamillion> dustymabe: mattdm: dgilmore and I ended up in a different email thread just this past Friday about it ... I'll follow up off-meeting with everyone
17:44:10 <dustymabe> maxamillion: ok
17:44:14 <spstarr> mattdm: so when the VM finishes install it contains the new OS and the original content is wiped out
17:44:20 <mattdm> spstarr: ah, nice. (we did a similar thing for provisiong systems at my last job, but via pxeboot)
17:44:48 <spstarr> here is some code: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/286928/46659078
17:45:00 <dustymabe> mattdm: I think his use case was being able to somehow make this portable across clouds?
17:45:08 <dustymabe> spstarr: ^^ was that right?
17:45:15 <spstarr> yes
17:45:35 <spstarr> cloud-init should be able to support X cloud provider and I am looking at a fallback to private cloud also
17:45:39 <maxamillion> dustymabe: nevermind, it's good
17:45:46 <spstarr> so some systemd service addon or dracut plugin
17:45:48 <maxamillion> dustymabe: you're right, legal signed off ... I'm a derp
17:46:02 <spstarr> this part im unsure of just yet, but working on that today
17:46:16 <mattdm> okay, whew. :)
17:46:16 <dustymabe> maxamillion: no worries, i think there are mutliple channels going on
17:46:25 <spstarr> Fedora diverged quite a bit in the creation of the initrd image
17:46:39 <spstarr> not difficult though
17:46:52 <mattdm> spstarr: that's pretty cool.
17:47:11 <jzb> (was this the next topic?)
17:47:16 <jzb> (or did we get derailed?)
17:47:20 <dustymabe> jzb: this is open floor
17:47:25 <spstarr> since we left an undocumented dracut option from history (Red Hat Linux) this makes this method possible
17:47:38 <jzb> ah, I missed the "open floor" thing
17:47:39 <maxamillion> dustymabe: yeah, I just went back and re-checked the email thread I was on and I was crossing mental streams ... apologies
17:47:41 * jzb has something
17:48:27 <dustymabe> spstarr: that is interesting.. so is the goal to make an AMI that one then uses everytime they run on a cloud provider?
17:48:35 <spstarr> once i iron out these bits i'll look at porting to Fedora's tool to add options
17:48:35 * mattdm too but maybe the same thing or at least an aspect of it :)
17:48:36 <dustymabe> or is the goal to run this every time you start an instance?
17:49:00 <spstarr> dustymabe: yes any provider, depends on what you want to do: you can use his VM image stub as a gold image creator within a cloud environment
17:49:19 <mattdm> spstarr: how big does the stub compress down to?
17:50:00 <dustymabe> spstarr: no, what I am saying is: is the output of this an AMI/IMAGE that is then used to start instances, or is the goal to use this to modify a running instance into what you want?
17:50:12 <dustymabe> and then use that instance?
17:50:19 <spstarr> so it works like this:  run livemedia-creator -> specify size of disk image, it will get the boot.iso, extract the bits, patch initramfs with cloud-init / turn on systemd services --> patch kernel/initrd into stuf VM --> upload to cloud provider.
17:50:31 <spstarr> dustymabe: either or
17:50:43 <spstarr> it can be used as a bootstrap either case
17:51:17 <spstarr> so a bootstrap AMI --> when you create a new instance of the AMI --> that instance becomes a real VM  -> make a new AMI --> use that AMI as 'gold image' --> production
17:51:54 <spstarr> so a use case is this:
17:53:30 <spstarr> 1) I want to have a gold image based on revision of a kickstart.txt (passed in via cloud-init dynamically content or URL)  from this stub image, I can build a Fedora 23 gold image.. when Fedora 24 comes out.. I can use that stub to make Fedora 24, 25, 26... etc
17:53:34 <dustymabe> jzb: you might want to throw your item in and let that discussion go on too
17:53:44 <spstarr> or CentOS 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4..
17:53:54 <jzb> dustymabe: OK
17:54:02 <jzb> https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/135
17:54:11 <jzb> We need to have a Fedora 23 retrospective
17:54:21 <jzb> (and then kick off F24 planning)
17:54:21 <spstarr> dustymabe: you basically are creating a template installer VM
17:54:42 <jzb> I think it's safe to say that we could have done better for Fedora 23
17:54:49 <dustymabe> spstarr: yeah.. but it's hard to promote that as an option for Fedora if we don't actually use it to create our release media
17:55:19 <dustymabe> spstarr: you should ping imcleod in #fedora-cloud sometime and see what he thinks
17:55:20 <jzb> I hate to lob something over the wall and run
17:55:24 <jzb> (but I will)
17:55:30 <dustymabe> he has a lot of history around installs
17:55:35 <jzb> can we set a deadline to go through this in two weeks/
17:55:36 <jzb> ?
17:55:45 <spstarr> i guess the issue is Fedora has no 23.1, 23.2.. vs CentOS which has 7.x releases
17:55:49 * mattdm looks at calendar
17:56:03 <jbrooks> CentOS is always CentOS-latest
17:56:05 <spstarr> and for Fedora anaconda changes per release
17:56:17 <dustymabe> jzb: seems reasonable
17:56:23 <spstarr> so your stub VM that was using Fedora 22 to install Fedora 24 might not work...
17:56:34 <mattdm> spstarr: yeah, very likely won't
17:56:47 <spstarr> so this might be better used for CentOS
17:56:54 <maxamillion> wait, why are we making stub images for AMIs? fedimg makes and uploads them constantly
17:57:05 <maxamillion> http://fedimg.readthedocs.org/en/latest/services/ec2/
17:57:06 <dustymabe> maxamillion: we aren't as fedora
17:57:13 <maxamillion> dustymabe: yes we are
17:57:17 <maxamillion> dustymabe: every single compose
17:57:18 <spstarr> maxamillion: its invert... uploading 8GB of data each image costs $
17:57:18 <mattdm> I'm gonna be at LISA next week and I'd like to participate in retrospective, so week _after_ that would be nice
17:57:19 <dustymabe> this was a project spstarr is working on for personal
17:57:24 <dustymabe> use
17:57:29 <maxamillion> ohhhh ok
17:57:31 <maxamillion> gotchya
17:57:35 <maxamillion> spstarr: makes sense
17:57:44 <spstarr> this is uploading a stub VM and reusing that to spin CentOS 7.x builds to make gold images from it
17:57:46 <jzb> mattdm: 18th right?
17:57:50 <spstarr> but it doesn't make sense for Fedora :(
17:57:57 <maxamillion> spstarr: gotchya
17:57:58 <mattdm> jzb: yeah
17:58:05 <jzb> OK
17:58:06 <maxamillion> spstarr: I misunderstood, apologies
17:58:11 <jzb> mattdm: do you have admin privs for Trac?
17:58:11 <mattdm> anyway since we're getting close to the hour....
17:58:12 <spstarr> no worries
17:58:14 <mattdm> here's my thing...
17:58:15 <mattdm> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/autocloud/jobs/
17:58:15 <dustymabe> spstarr: that's ok. we're glad you're around the space and might have input for us in the future
17:58:22 <mattdm> I'm concerned that everything is purple
17:58:31 <spstarr> dustymabe: absolutely
17:58:50 <mattdm> I know kushal is unavailable right now, so I don't know who can figure out what's going on
17:59:02 <dustymabe> mattdm: rtnpro might
17:59:07 <mattdm> also, the things that aren't purple are red
17:59:14 <dustymabe> but he just left also
17:59:31 <mattdm> jzb: yes I have trac admin
17:59:41 <dustymabe> ok I think we are done with meeting
17:59:45 * dustymabe sets fuse
17:59:49 <dustymabe> 3..
17:59:52 <jzb> mattdm: can you bump me up so I can add milestones?
17:59:55 <dustymabe> ..2
18:00:01 <dustymabe> ....1
18:00:09 <dustymabe> #endmeeting