16:01:14 <geppetto> #startmeeting fpc
16:01:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 30 16:01:14 2014 UTC.  The chair is geppetto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:14 <geppetto> #meetingname fpc
16:01:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:01:14 <geppetto> #topic Roll Call
16:01:20 <geppetto> abadger1999 geppetto limburgher mbooth orionp racor Rathann SmootherFr0gZ spot tibbs|w tomspur: FPC ping
16:01:30 <orionp> hello
16:01:37 <mbooth> Hi
16:01:48 <tomspur> hi
16:02:02 <geppetto> #chair orionp
16:02:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto orionp
16:02:08 <geppetto> #chair mbooth
16:02:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mbooth orionp
16:02:11 <geppetto> #chair tomspur
16:02:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mbooth orionp tomspur
16:03:19 * racor is here
16:04:34 <geppetto> #chair racor
16:04:35 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mbooth orionp racor tomspur
16:05:13 <geppetto> Ok, we have quorum but I'll wait another couple of mins. for tibbs and SmootherFrOgZ … as they've been here recently, and the schedule isn't full
16:08:18 <geppetto> abadger1999 limburgher Rathann SmootherFr0gZ spot tibbs|w: FPC ping
16:08:28 <geppetto> just in time :)
16:08:33 <tibbs|w> Hooray.
16:08:41 <geppetto> #chair tibbs|w
16:08:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mbooth orionp racor tibbs|w tomspur
16:08:48 <tibbs|w> Some days I don't even get a chance to log in before the fun starts.
16:09:27 <geppetto> #topic #466 	recommend Privatedevices and PrivateNetwork in systemd guidelines
16:09:28 <geppetto> https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/466
16:12:13 <geppetto> Much like the two systemd changes sundaram proposed last week … I'm thinking to just say "Please come up with some policy change, and we can vote on it" … unless anyone else has something in mind?
16:12:30 <tibbs|w> "Please provide a draft."
16:12:31 <tibbs|w> Yes.
16:12:58 <tibbs|w> Wait, this change isn't even accepted.
16:13:12 <orionp> Targeted F22
16:13:17 <geppetto> yeh
16:13:36 <tibbs|w> So.... why is he asking us to change the guidlines now?
16:13:38 <geppetto> #info We need a draft to vote on something.
16:13:52 <tibbs|w> We need to work with fesco on this kind of thing.
16:13:52 <tomspur> it was accepted, but moved to F22 because there was no reply in the bug
16:14:06 <tomspur> .bug 1084102
16:14:06 <geppetto> #info Policy should only be changed after features have been accepted, and this change is currently targeted for F22.
16:14:08 <zodbot> tomspur: Bug 1084102 PrivateDevices=yes and PrivateNetwork=yes For Long-Running Services - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1084102
16:14:10 <tibbs|w> It's not in the acceptedChanges category.
16:14:20 <tibbs|w> It's in the ChangePageIncomplete category.
16:14:44 <tibbs|w> Now, we should ask fesco to ammend their policy to add something about package guidelines.
16:15:03 <tibbs|w> If guideline changes are needed, a draft needs to be supplied so that we can vote.
16:15:48 <mbooth> tibbs|w: Seems reasonable
16:15:55 <geppetto> That bug is weird, Lennart says due to DESCo request he's moving it to F22 … but then someone else says it's in F21
16:16:03 <geppetto> but, yeh
16:16:33 <geppetto> wrt. policy
16:18:53 <geppetto> #topic #382     Go Packaging Guidelines Draft
16:18:59 <geppetto> https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/382
16:19:02 <tibbs|w> So, I'll open a ticket with fesco and ask them to consider that.
16:19:20 <geppetto> tibbs|w: ok
16:19:37 <geppetto> This ticket has been updated, but not far enough that we can vote on anything, I think?
16:21:19 <geppetto> any other opinions?
16:21:36 <mbooth> I guess these are the changes to the draft: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=PackagingDrafts%2FGo&diff=392136&oldid=390843
16:22:22 <geppetto> yeh, but it seemed like he was still working on it and just giving an update … more than a this is now finished and ready to vote on type thing
16:23:06 <tibbs|w> I agree.
16:23:28 <tibbs|w> If there was much in the way of changes I'd say we could give some guidance on whether we like the direction.
16:23:47 <geppetto> yeh
16:23:49 <geppetto> #topic #465 	OpenOffice.org Extensions guidelines out-of-date
16:23:52 * nirik notes there seem to be a lot of go packages entering the collection, which seems odd with no guidelines approved yet. ;(
16:23:55 <geppetto> https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/465
16:24:05 <tibbs|w> nirik: Reviewers can approve what they want.
16:24:21 <tibbs|w> Few people appear to care about the process these days.
16:24:29 <nirik> yeah, even if they say "looks fine to me". grumble. anyhow, sorry to sidetrack.
16:24:45 <geppetto> nirik: Do you know if they are big/small?
16:25:11 * SmootherFrOgZ here
16:25:28 <nirik> geppetto: most of them seem very tiny. I see 75 or so golang* packages
16:25:41 * geppetto nods
16:25:48 <geppetto> #chair SmootherFrOgZ
16:25:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: SmootherFrOgZ geppetto mbooth orionp racor tibbs|w tomspur
16:26:30 <geppetto> orionp: So … you've been talking on this ticket a lot
16:26:45 <orionp> yup
16:27:11 <mbooth> Is it likely that there will be noarch extensions? (Do such things exist?)
16:27:25 <orionp> They don't exist
16:27:31 <orionp> bug filed to add support
16:27:39 <orionp> no idea if it will be acted upon
16:27:52 <tibbs|w> They would exist if there was support, I think.
16:28:07 <tibbs|w> Probably most of the current extensions would be noarch, wouldn't they?
16:28:10 * geppetto nods … at that point it seems fine to say all extensions should not be noarch
16:28:17 <geppetto> Ahh
16:28:51 <orionp> I think most are scripted and so would be noarch if possible
16:29:14 <orionp> Much of the libreoffice package itself probably should be noarch
16:29:21 <mbooth> Oh I see, I should have said "contain no native parts" instead of noarch :-)
16:30:25 <orionp> I'm thinking we should change the *should* be named libreoffice-FOO to a must.
16:30:42 <orionp> Currently there is only one with the old name:
16:30:48 <orionp> openoffice.org-diafilter-0:1.7.2-9.fc22.x86_64
16:30:57 <tibbs|w> What about ooolatex?
16:31:15 <orionp> that's dead and now libreoffice-TexMaths
16:31:36 <tibbs|w> Not dead enough to not be in F20, I guess.
16:31:58 <tibbs|w> But renaming the last one, sure.
16:32:15 * geppetto nods
16:33:01 <geppetto> So … I'd rather have the noarch problem fixed, if this was a new policy … but given we've lived with it for years already, it doesn't seem good to hold up the new policy on it.
16:33:09 <geppetto> "it" == upstream noarch bug.
16:33:25 <tibbs|w> I agree, but at least these things are tiny.
16:33:47 <geppetto> orionp:  So … any idea how long it'll be before we can vote on a new policy?
16:34:08 <tibbs|w> It would be nice to know how much of libreoffice itself would be noarch if that kind of thing were possible.
16:34:20 <orionp> I think we're ready
16:35:17 <geppetto> orionp: It's ready now?
16:35:33 <geppetto> You have a diff. URL?
16:35:42 <tibbs|w> It's pretty much a rewrite.
16:35:43 <orionp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/libreOfficeExtentions
16:35:54 <orionp> I'm thinking we should change the *should* be named libreoffice-FOO to a must - comments?
16:36:08 <mbooth> orionp: Sounds fair
16:36:08 <tibbs|w> Agreed.
16:36:08 <tomspur> +1 for the must
16:36:14 <geppetto> As tibbs|w said, I'm fine with forcing it for last user
16:36:23 <orionp> And I could add a full template
16:36:42 <tomspur> is there also a new python-libreoffice?
16:36:46 <tibbs|w> It's not as if our guidelines have ever applied to existing packages anyway.
16:36:48 <orionp> but perhaps people should figure out a few things themselves
16:37:27 <geppetto> "just be able to just" seems wrong
16:37:27 <orionp> tomspur ?
16:37:27 <tibbs|w> As a reviewer looking at these, I'd ask what "unpacked" means.
16:37:27 <mbooth> orionp: I think the example you have there is more than sufficient
16:37:53 <tomspur> orionp, I have here python-openoffice : Python libraries for interacting with LibreOffice
16:38:28 <orionp> ah
16:38:35 <orionp> geppetto - dropped the second just
16:38:45 <geppetto> " a uno binding" == " an uno binding"
16:38:53 <geppetto> … also uno binding makes me giggle :)
16:39:30 <mbooth> tibbs|w: Maybe "Extensions must be installed (unpacked/unzipped) under..." would be clearer?
16:39:49 <mbooth> The example clearly has "unzip" command
16:39:56 <tibbs|w> Are they always distributed as zip files?
16:40:53 <orionp> The ".oxt" format is a zip archive
16:40:59 <tibbs|w> Ah..
16:41:40 <tibbs|w> I'm just playing devil's advocate anyway.
16:42:25 <geppetto> orionp: Don't forget to change should to must in #3 :)
16:42:34 <geppetto> Otherwise, we are ready to vote on it?
16:42:38 <orionp> just did
16:42:59 <geppetto> Ok, I'm +1
16:43:33 <mbooth> Yeah I have no problem with this draft
16:43:35 <mbooth> +1
16:43:36 <tibbs|w> +1
16:43:39 <orionp> hold on - late breaking
16:44:00 <orionp> we end up with empty debuginfo?
16:44:42 <tibbs|w> Yeah, arch-specific packages with nothing arch-specific still generate debuginfo.
16:44:46 <geppetto> ahh, with noarch packages that aren't noarch … yeh, that'll happen
16:44:58 <orionp> so we need a note about disabling debuginfo
16:45:01 <mbooth> "%global debug_package %{nil}"
16:45:11 <mbooth> I believe is the incantation
16:45:14 <tibbs|w> I guess note that debuginfo should generally be disabled if it would be empty.
16:45:57 <geppetto> I'm fine with it in there, although the language rules for python/java/etc. will mention that too … so it kind falls under that
16:46:29 <tibbs|w> I've found that it's better to be explicit.
16:46:37 * geppetto nods
16:46:38 <tomspur> Does installing to _datadir work and letting _libdir/libreoffice/share/extensions/ point symlink to it?
16:47:07 <tibbs|w> But what about arch-specific extensions?
16:47:29 <tomspur> yeah...
16:47:58 <tibbs|w> It's better to have fake arch-specific things than to prevent arch-specific things altogether.
16:48:21 * tomspur nods
16:49:29 <orionp> Added a note about debuginfo
16:50:22 <tibbs|w> +1
16:50:31 <SmootherFrOgZ> +1 from me
16:50:36 <tomspur> +1
16:50:37 <mbooth> +1
16:50:44 <geppetto> +1
16:51:30 <orionp> +1
16:51:34 <orionp> :)
16:52:03 <geppetto> racor: want to vote?
16:54:24 <geppetto> #action New libreoffice extensions policy by Orionp (+1:6, 0:0, -1:0)
16:54:49 <geppetto> #topic Open Floor
16:54:55 <geppetto> Anyone have anythign to discuss?
16:54:59 <tibbs|w> Wow, under an hour?
16:55:04 <geppetto> yeh, so far :)
16:55:22 <geppetto> must be karma for DST lost ;)
16:55:31 <tomspur> About the meeting time:
16:56:06 <racor> geppetto: Was distracted. Vote +1
16:56:11 <tomspur> I changed it at the fedora calendar to 12 US/East, so it is always moving with your DST
16:56:21 <tomspur> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/packaging/
16:57:31 <geppetto> tomspur: Ok, cool
16:57:43 <geppetto> tomspur: So nothing needs to be updated for next week now?
16:58:11 <tomspur> geppetto, should be working forever unless we move the meeting time to something else :)
16:58:26 <geppetto> tomspur: Ok, thanks
16:58:49 <geppetto> And for everyone not in the US … a reminder that next week the time will change
16:58:58 <geppetto> To be what it was last week :)
16:59:15 <tomspur> :)
16:59:33 <geppetto> Anyone have anything else?
16:59:53 <tibbs|w> Nope.  I'm opening a ticket with fesco now.
16:59:59 <geppetto> cool
17:00:33 <geppetto> #topic #465 	OpenOffice.org Extensions guidelines out-of-date
17:00:44 <geppetto> #action New libreoffice extensions policy by Orionp (+1:7, 0:0, -1:0)
17:00:52 <geppetto> #topic Open Floor
17:01:10 <geppetto> Rathann: Meeting was one hour earlier this week … but it'll go back to last weeks time next week.
17:01:17 <Rathann> huh
17:01:26 <racor> FYI: Independently of DST, I'll likely be missing next week.
17:01:37 <geppetto> ok
17:02:16 <Rathann> sorry
17:02:44 <geppetto> Rathann: No problem, blame govts. bowing to DST madness
17:02:56 <geppetto> racor: See ya in two weeks
17:03:02 <geppetto> See everyone else next week
17:03:07 <geppetto> #endmeeting