20:10:16 <rbergeron> #startmeeting marketing meeting
20:10:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep  7 20:10:16 2010 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:10:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:10:28 <rbergeron> #meetingname fedora marketing
20:10:28 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_marketing'
20:10:33 <rbergeron> #chair jsmith stickster
20:10:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: jsmith rbergeron stickster
20:10:44 * rbergeron goes over to poke people on # -mktg
20:11:35 <Southern_Gentlem> stickster,  any info about a room block people can register for yet?
20:12:06 <rbergeron> #topic Roll call
20:12:08 <rbergeron> who's about?
20:12:13 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem: Yes, we have a room block
20:12:13 * jsmith is here
20:12:44 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem: I had a question in to the organizers that just got answered today, so I'll make a big announcement - but this is a Marketing meeting so the question's best kept in #fudcon-planning
20:12:55 <Southern_Gentlem> +1
20:14:01 * rbergeron is here ... sort of :)
20:14:15 <wonderer> stickster: is there anything came up from FUDCON concerning MKTG so far?!
20:14:59 * stickster is here
20:15:14 * yn1v Neville is half here
20:15:17 <rbergeron> wonderer: such as? :)
20:15:26 <rbergeron> hey neville :) how goes it?
20:16:11 <wonderer> rbergeron: dono, materials, other then the press we gave out over RH... I'm not in the fudcon-planing chanel so I ask -)
20:17:16 <rbergeron> well you should come to the fudcon-planning channel :)
20:17:52 <rbergeron> Well!
20:17:57 <rbergeron> Okay, onwards with the marketing meeting
20:18:00 <rbergeron> #topic Agenda
20:18:20 * jsmith has one item he'd like to add to the agenda (at the last minute)
20:18:54 <rbergeron> I have a partial agenda going on here - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda - I haven't really updated it since last week, between nearly breaking my thumb, stepping on a bee, celebrating 3 birthdays in my house and being ill and the holiday weekend.
20:19:03 <rbergeron> #topic Release slogan
20:19:32 <jsmith> rbergeron: I still haven't heard from RH legal on that -- will follow up and find out where it's at.
20:19:32 <rbergeron> jsmith: IIRC - we were sending the possible release slogan over to legal - did we hear anything back from that, or is my memory shot altogether and we skipped it?
20:19:46 <rbergeron> ah
20:19:50 <rbergeron> okay then!
20:20:00 <rbergeron> #topic Feature Profile status
20:20:18 <rbergeron> jsmith, stickster: how goes feature profiles?
20:20:46 <stickster> rbergeron: I actually sent a feeler out to Lennart about systemd, haven't heard back but will ping him again. I need to write up questions and will try to do that this week.
20:20:55 <stickster> rbergeron: Can you remind everyone about deadlines on those?
20:20:56 * jsmith hasn't done any more on it, sorry :-(
20:21:09 <rbergeron> sounds good. I am woefully behind on mine as well, though I did talk to jforbes about ours.
20:21:33 <stickster> #action stickster write up questions for systemd feature profile and re-ping mezcalero
20:21:43 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to send out reminder mails on Feature Profiles, and probably update the feature profiles page to show what we're doing. :D
20:23:49 <stickster> Anything else on this?
20:23:53 * stickster hears crickets
20:24:05 <jsmith> Nothing more from me on this topic
20:24:44 * rbergeron can't phonetically do a cricket
20:25:01 <rbergeron> #topic Firefox Bookmarks
20:25:40 <rbergeron> This was on the schedule, still is on the schedule, I still need to do it and totally forgot since it was discussed in last week's meeting where all bad things happened to me. :)
20:25:48 * rbergeron goes to find last week's logs
20:26:06 <rbergeron> well, actually
20:26:32 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to find logs from last week's meeting and post to list
20:26:44 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to do Firefox bookmarks email / action item
20:26:56 * rbergeron feels behind, ugh
20:26:58 <stickster> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2010-08-31/fedora-meeting-1.2010-08-31-20.01.html <-- last meetin gnotes
20:27:04 <rbergeron> stickster: thank you :)
20:27:09 <stickster> I live to serve :-)
20:27:39 <rbergeron> okay!
20:27:49 <stickster> rbergeron: I think all that has to happen here is that someone needs to look at the defaults in the current F14, ask caillon how we can get changes in, and then record that in a wiki page
20:27:55 <rbergeron> now i know who to mail again
20:27:56 * rbergeron nods
20:27:57 <stickster> (And of course someone to do that)
20:28:15 <rbergeron> well, i volunteered, absent anyone else
20:28:41 <stickster> rbergeron: If you run into any problems, let me and jsmith know.
20:28:51 <rbergeron> will do.
20:29:00 * rbergeron will do that after this meeting so it can actually get in there
20:29:08 <rbergeron> okay!
20:29:15 <rbergeron> annnnd.... that's all i have.
20:29:36 <rbergeron> jsmith: did you want to talk about start.fp.o stuff at all?
20:29:43 <jsmith> rbergeron: How did you know?
20:29:48 <jsmith> :-p
20:30:33 <jsmith> Yes, the Board has been discussing start.fp.o for a long time, and has decided that 1) Our current situation with start.fp.o is suboptimal and 2) There's probably a lot information that would be more useful to people
20:30:51 <jsmith> and 3) We'd like to enlist the Marketing team in coming up with a list of things they'd like to see on that page
20:30:52 <rbergeron> jsmith: my ears burn every time i hover my mouse over my Fedora-Advisory-Board email bucket
20:30:56 <rbergeron> :D
20:31:08 <yn1v> rbergeron: I can help with bookmarks, but it will be tonight in about 5 hours
20:31:22 <jsmith> And since I forgot to bring this up last week, I'd better get it done this week, or the Board will tar and feather me
20:31:46 <rbergeron> okay, so here is my question: i'm guessing there is a lot of stuff that could also go into Fedora Insight
20:32:04 <jsmith> Yes...
20:32:06 <rbergeron> so - what kind of things do we NOT want on start.fp.o?
20:32:24 <rbergeron> Or I guess is there stuff we need to create and marketing should be thinking of that?
20:32:28 <jsmith> Well, we really don't need a search box that goes to an external service -- most browsers already have that
20:32:33 <rbergeron> or are we talking about feeds from here and there and so forth
20:32:52 <jsmith> We could have feeds -- we could have static content -- we could have "Here's how to participate in Fedora"
20:32:53 * rbergeron isn't the best communicator today, sorry :)
20:33:09 * stickster does think that Insight would be well suited to this
20:33:13 <jsmith> Anything that might help a Fedora user be more inclined to be a Fedora collaborator
20:33:22 <jsmith> stickster: WORKSFORME :-)
20:33:37 <rbergeron> stickster: plz elaborate
20:33:45 <rbergeron> jsmith: mo has a mockup of this, correct?
20:33:55 <rbergeron> can you paste the link?
20:34:00 <rbergeron> or am I thinking of other mockups
20:34:15 <jsmith> rbergeron: No, not of this she doesn't.
20:34:38 <jsmith> rbergeron: And she was one of the folks who said "Let's ask marketing to come up with a list of items they'd like to see on that page"
20:34:43 <yn1v> I like the announce box, at this time talking about updates problem
20:34:48 <stickster> rbergeron: I believe static page content, especially generic participation stuff that doesn't change often, would work well on Insight. The question would be how to tie it into the rest of our site properly.
20:34:52 <jsmith> I'm assuming she'll help with mockups/design after we get a list of items together
20:35:06 * rbergeron nods
20:35:22 * stickster would love to have more collaboration from the Board members and others on Insight :-)
20:35:25 <rbergeron> but we don't want it to be overly busy.
20:35:32 <stickster> rbergeron: Absolutely note
20:35:35 <stickster> ha *not
20:35:39 <yn1v> I think it will be nice to have a link to the communities websites... but that is still a work in progress
20:35:56 <stickster> We want things simple and well organized on Insight's front page, just as on any Fedora web site.
20:36:41 * rbergeron nods
20:36:48 <stickster> jsmith: rbergeron: I think how we do it, is subject to what people want on start.fp.o specifically.
20:36:50 <rbergeron> well, i was talking about start.fp.o
20:37:02 <rbergeron> as far as busy-ness
20:37:08 <stickster> start.fp.o is just a domain name pointing to whatever content we want, presented in whatever way makes sense.
20:37:14 <jsmith> Correct
20:37:31 <jsmith> We need to decide *what* we want there first, then decide how to present it (both graphically and technologically)
20:37:59 * rbergeron thinks
20:38:36 <rbergeron> So - I think we will be getting to the point where we're going to have sort of a fine line between the content on www.fp.o, insight.fp.o, and start.fp.o
20:38:46 <rbergeron> if we expand start.fp.o beyond what it is right now
20:39:01 <stickster> Let's think about where people see start.fp.o.  They see it when they start up a browser for the first time in Fedora, right?
20:39:13 <rbergeron> indeed.
20:39:14 <stickster> So at that point, a person is running either a Live image or an installed system
20:39:27 <stickster> I would suggest thinking about what a person would want to know in that situation.
20:39:31 <stickster> Like "What now?"
20:39:36 <stickster> Or "What if ____ doesn't work?"
20:40:15 <rbergeron> Well - the "what now?" is usually "i'm going to google or gmail or something to make sure my internet works"
20:40:15 <stickster> Or "How is it this exists?"
20:40:25 <stickster> *nod]
20:41:15 <rbergeron> And hopefully it is, and if not, I'd guess that some direction to locally stored helpfulness would be good.
20:41:46 <rbergeron> I'm guessing that we can't tell firefox to go one way or another depending on if eth* is up or down
20:42:25 <jsmith> We may be able to... doesn't NetworkManager going offline put Firefox into offline mode?
20:43:00 * rbergeron could unplug and find out, lol :)
20:43:26 <jsmith> rbergeron: Sure, after the meeting :-p
20:43:31 <rbergeron> awwww
20:43:33 * rbergeron grins
20:44:24 <stickster> jsmith: I think we're getting into tech territory here.
20:44:39 <rbergeron> So - I think it really should be just a short list of (a) major announcements, (b) Read more about What is Fedora, (c) Need help? Go Here.
20:44:42 <stickster> If someone's offline, they're offline. The general feeling is that it's right to show them a "You're offline" page, which ff already does.
20:44:50 <stickster> Let's worry about the online case :-)
20:44:54 <stickster> rbergeron: +1
20:45:01 <jsmith> +1
20:45:08 <rbergeron> I think if there was a way to have it figure out that it's offline and have a local version of start.fp.o that says "PLEASE HALP" that would be awesome.
20:45:17 <rbergeron> And would probably be really helpful on its own.
20:45:23 <stickster> rbergeron: It's been discussed numerous times int he past and been discarded as not helpfull.
20:45:24 <jsmith> That's true
20:45:25 <stickster> *helpful
20:45:28 <stickster> We used to do this
20:45:28 <rbergeron> Particularly for first-time startups.
20:45:34 <rbergeron> Oh.
20:45:47 <rbergeron> Well, I will not reinvent the wheel or send mails saying "OMG I HAS SAVE THE UNIVERSES!!!"
20:45:50 <rbergeron> :)
20:45:51 <stickster> But it's confusing for users because they think they're offline and then get frustrated when a link doesn't work.
20:46:01 <rbergeron> aha.
20:46:03 * stickster thinks rbergeron's 3 points are a great place to start.
20:46:09 <stickster> 1. Announcements
20:46:19 <stickster> 2. Read more about Fedora and whence it comes (?)
20:46:28 <stickster> 3. Pointers to immediate help
20:46:34 <rbergeron> I'd almost say "news of the day" ILO announcements, but I don't want to turn that into "who's writing tomorrow's news that isn't so newsworthy"
20:46:56 <stickster> rbergeron: Right, like a raw feed of Planet Fedora? Probably not so good.
20:47:11 <rbergeron> yeah, probably not.
20:47:15 <stickster> "How I urkled my doodlybarb 1.0 using dweezil 0.4"
20:47:15 <rbergeron> :)
20:47:38 <rbergeron> stickster: can you show me how to do that at OLF on thursday? :)
20:47:48 <stickster> rbergeron: I'm on dweezil 0.5 now, so no
20:47:49 <rbergeron> been giving me a LOT of troubles
20:47:52 <rbergeron> OHHHH
20:47:55 <rbergeron> foiled again
20:47:57 <stickster> ;-)
20:48:40 <rbergeron> We currently have a link to release notes.
20:49:38 <stickster> What would be better?
20:50:01 <stickster> (and when I ask that, I mean, "surely there are more/better things to which we could link; what are they?")
20:50:24 <rbergeron> I mean - I'm looking at what we have NOW and thinking - we didn't just come up with anything a whole heck of a lot different.
20:50:25 <stickster> Sending people to the wiki immediately isn't the best move in a lot of cases
20:50:34 <rbergeron> It's just that what we are sending them to isn't entirely user-friendly
20:50:46 <rbergeron> particulary the "speak" link
20:50:58 <stickster> Right. It's trying to be clever but it's just obtuse
20:51:13 <rbergeron> documentation is booteeful though :)
20:52:14 <rbergeron> We really should have a more ... concise what is fedora explanation
20:52:26 <stickster> What if we had a few columns of simple links, such as things you could read (Release Notes, Deployment Guide, other docs at docs.fp.o), things you could do (content about tasks), things about the community...
20:52:46 <stickster> rbergeron: Why don't we try and do this in a thread on the list, along with a wiki page where we make a written proposal.
20:52:56 <rbergeron> that sounds like a good idea.
20:52:58 <stickster> rbergeron: Simply finding problems with the existing content doesn't get us closer to a better page
20:53:12 <stickster> Let's identify what the purpose of the page should be, where the current one falls down, and what we think would make it better
20:53:25 <stickster> jsmith: Do you want to start that thread?
20:53:33 <rbergeron> stickster: i'm glad you're here, my brain doesn't work so well today :)
20:53:50 <stickster> As I said... I live to serve!
20:54:28 <rbergeron> Could you please serve the eviction notice on the various forces of sickness inside my head? (aside from the ones that make me crack awesome jokes on occasion)
20:54:31 <rbergeron> :)
20:54:39 <stickster> hee hee
20:54:55 * stickster will look for that thread and try to say something useful there
20:55:25 * rbergeron wonders if stickster is going to slap jsmith iwth the action symbol on that or not :)
20:56:00 <stickster> #action jsmith start Marketing thread on making start.fp.o more useful
20:56:41 <rbergeron> #info three good places to start: Announcements; Read more about Fedora and whence it comes (????), Pointers to immediate help
20:57:00 <rbergeron> Okay. Anything else, folks?
20:57:06 * jsmith has nothing else
20:57:25 * rbergeron will wait a few minutes anc close out the meeting logs and send out this weeks, and last week's :)
20:57:50 * wonderer is preparing to do the dance...
20:58:42 <rbergeron> it just isn't a meeting without wonderer doing the dance :)
20:59:36 <rbergeron> Thanks everyone!
20:59:38 <yn1v> rbergeron: I can help with bookmarks, but it will be tonight in about 5 hours
20:59:38 <rbergeron> #endmeeting