18:01:10 <kital> #startmeeting famsco meeting 2010-april-19
18:01:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr 19 18:01:10 2010 UTC.  The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:21 <kital> #topic RollCall
18:01:35 <kital> Joerg Simon
18:01:37 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi
18:02:38 <kital> i know that max will join later
18:03:00 <kital> tatica ke4qqq roll call
18:04:05 <kital> RodrigoPadula rollcal?
18:04:15 <RodrigoPadula> Rodrigo Padula
18:04:30 <kital> thanks ;)
18:04:43 <kital> ok only we 3
18:05:09 <kital> lets wait another 2 minutes
18:05:24 <RodrigoPadula> ok
18:06:15 <RodrigoPadula> I'm here burning/printing media and preparing Fedora Stuffs for our parcitipation in Flisol Brasil in many states
18:06:48 <RodrigoPadula> I will show something on fedoraplanet  soon
18:07:23 <tatica> o/
18:07:28 <tatica> Maria Leandro
18:07:32 <kital> thanks tatica
18:08:16 <kital> following to our agenda
18:08:17 <kital> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda
18:08:30 <kital> #topic Review open action items
18:09:20 <kital> tatica: thanks for working on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tatica/Laptop_show
18:09:50 <tatica> no problem, I will add some things from this flisol and after that, I will publish it officially
18:09:57 <kital> i think this is a good start - i made a call for contribution during the emea meeting
18:10:04 <kital> thanks tatica
18:10:25 <RodrigoPadula> !
18:10:42 <kital> for "my" task moving the survey draft
18:10:58 <kital> i could still need some help with https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey
18:11:24 <kital> but ke4qqq offered me the testinstance they provide at marketing for survey polls
18:11:32 <kital> i am still on it
18:12:04 <kital> anything to add to "old business"?
18:12:15 <tatica> I want to add that there was some changes to Ambassadors wiki
18:12:15 <susmit> nah
18:12:18 <RodrigoPadula> isn't more appropriate  to use generic URLs than /User:Name/ to work on this?
18:12:37 <tatica> after ask about this on the mail list
18:12:37 <tatica> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/LATAM
18:12:44 <tatica> I still need to translate into english
18:13:00 <susmit> RodrigoPadula, it is ok as long as it is a test version..
18:13:03 <tatica> RodrigoPadula, I do all the drafts on my personal url and then I put into a nice url
18:13:11 <tatica> I already ask if this was ok about 15 days ago
18:13:18 <kital> RodrigoPadula: i think it will be moved if it change from draft status
18:13:28 <tatica> yup :)
18:13:39 <tatica> kital, susmit thx
18:13:52 <RodrigoPadula> ok
18:14:25 <kital> #topic Campus Ambassador Business
18:14:26 <RodrigoPadula> I think is better to work on the final address than move from one to another
18:14:33 <RodrigoPadula> my 0,02
18:15:06 <kital> RodrigoPadula: thanks, noticed
18:15:57 <kital> rrix made a proposal to place the Campus Ambassador Programm inside the Ambassador Group
18:16:01 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/campus-ambassadors/2010-April/000070.html
18:16:28 <susmit> now, this is something important.
18:16:29 <kital> i think this is may be influenced by a discussion from a emea ambassadors meeting
18:16:33 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/campus-ambassadors/2010-April/000070.html
18:17:07 <kital> from the discussion around
18:17:08 <kital> 20:23:16 <rsc> I don't really get why we need "campusambassadors"? Why can't regular ambassadors do that as well? And how will you ensure that "campusambassadors" are knowledged enough?
18:17:58 <kital> i think it is important to have a "famsco" position on this - my personal is "it is great"
18:18:21 <kital> any comments on this?
18:18:23 <susmit> rsc is right..and what are the benefits if we have a separate group like that?
18:19:14 <susmit> eof
18:19:37 <RodrigoPadula> I think the campusambassadors isnt necessary
18:19:53 <susmit> +1
18:19:58 <kital> RodrigoPadula: that is nothing we can discuss - this is established already
18:20:09 <RodrigoPadula> many of our ambassadors are students and are in many universities doing a great job spreading fedora
18:20:11 <kital> first outside from ambassdors - also from the emea log
18:20:12 <kital> 20:12:31 <biertie> We are starting the campus ambassadors program again
18:20:16 <kital> 20:12:40 <biertie> and I am elected as the 'president'
18:20:34 <kital> i asume that max and greg de koenigsberg encouraged it
18:21:19 <RodrigoPadula> I think this idea must to be applied inside Red Hat Academy Program, and not to Fedora
18:21:34 <RodrigoPadula> we will have 2 kinds of ambassadors ?
18:21:34 <susmit> just a sec...what are we discussing? Placing campus ambs. inside the ambs?
18:22:24 <kital> following http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/campus-ambassadors/2010-April/000070.html
18:22:41 <kital> First of all, Campus Ambassadors will be a subset of the full fledged
18:22:41 <kital> Fedora Ambassadors program. As such, each Campus Ambassador will have to
18:22:45 <kital> go through the mentoring process that all other ambassadors need to go
18:22:48 <kital> through to be admitted into the program.
18:23:09 <susmit> " each Campus Ambassador will have to
18:23:09 <susmit> go through the mentoring process that all other ambassadors need to go
18:23:09 <susmit> through to be admitted into the program."
18:23:27 <susmit> If I invest my time on a candidate,
18:23:32 <RodrigoPadula> I cant think what is the difference between a campus ambassador and a regular ambassador
18:23:38 <kital> these is what rrix proposed - to keep sure that campusambassadors are knowledged and able to use our infra to get swag ...
18:23:48 <susmit> I would like him not to be confined within the univ.
18:24:28 <RodrigoPadula> I think the role and idea is the same but only with a different focus
18:25:03 <kital> RodrigoPadula: +1 this is what i also asked biertie
18:25:04 <kital> 20:19:32 <kital> so the approach is the same as Ambassadors with smaller scope?
18:25:20 <kital> his answer 20:19:40 <biertie> kital: indeed :)
18:25:48 <kital> but it is already established
18:26:06 <kital> and their first plan was to do it outside from Ambassdors !
18:26:06 <RodrigoPadula> I'm inside the biggest Brazilian university since 2006 spreading fedora to new Msc and D.Sc students
18:26:07 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Campus_Ambassadors
18:26:18 <RodrigoPadula> so, have I to move to campusambassadors program ?
18:26:31 <RodrigoPadula> :-)
18:26:43 <kital> i also think it is not needed but
18:26:53 <kital> there is a fas group
18:26:55 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Campus_Ambassadors
18:26:57 <RodrigoPadula> that's the question
18:27:30 <RodrigoPadula> I think we have to think and talk more about this idea
18:27:38 <kital> if they want to focus it - i am honest - i would like to se them doing it inside Ambassadors than in the wild
18:27:41 <RodrigoPadula> I dont know if it will be a good effort for us
18:28:15 <kital> RodrigoPadula: once again - i have no clue who pushed this
18:28:18 <susmit> kital, for me it is not clear what is expected of us. It would be nice if they can come up with a exact list that the campuss ambassadors group wants.
18:28:19 <RodrigoPadula> 1 ambassador role is enough, I guess
18:28:52 <lfoppiano> Hi guys
18:28:57 <RodrigoPadula> lfoppiano, Hi
18:29:18 <lfoppiano> I'm in late...but where is the famsco meeting^?
18:29:26 <susmit> lfoppiano, here
18:29:40 <susmit> is it on...see the topic :)
18:29:41 <kital> susmit: as said before - it is started outside from redhat community team - i do not know more - it just appeared
18:30:00 <lfoppiano> I read only the first part
18:30:10 <lfoppiano> sorry but I'm home now from work
18:30:26 <susmit> kital, then let's postpone this discussion till we get clearer picture
18:30:40 <kital> lfoppiano: we discuss - sense/nonsense https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Campus_Ambassadors
18:30:48 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/campus-ambassadors/2010-April/000070.html
18:30:53 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/campus-ambassadors/2010-April/000070.html
18:31:18 <kital> ping rrix biertie can you enlighten us
18:31:44 <ke4qqq> bah - I am late sorry
18:32:07 <kital> ke4qqq: can you read the backlog and help us out with campus ambassadors?
18:32:16 <susmit> ke4qqq, we are halfway..still another half to go.
18:32:27 <ke4qqq> sure - /me begins rapidly reading
18:33:01 <RodrigoPadula> We have to talk to max and greg about it
18:33:34 <RodrigoPadula> I think this effor is linked directly to POSSE
18:33:38 <RodrigoPadula> and Red Hat Academy
18:33:44 <kital> the discussion is also on the ambassdors list maybe it is helpfull to ask for more information
18:33:56 <RodrigoPadula> kital, +1
18:34:14 <tatica> he said he was going to work on the wiki
18:34:24 <kital> RodrigoPadula: POSSE is teaching the Teachers - but rrix and biertie are still students
18:34:26 <tatica> to clarify everything, we should encourage him to do it so we can help better
18:34:32 <ke4qqq> inode0: care to comment on this - I know you were heavily involved in campus ambassadors
18:34:58 <inode0> I can say a little bit about its purpose
18:35:28 <kital> right now i think we can agree that if there is a sense in this program they are welcome to do it inside ambassador instead generating new management overhead?
18:35:38 <inode0> There is access and influence that students have within institutions that visiting ambassadors and even staff ambassadors don't have.
18:36:19 <inode0> And influencing the nature of education is part of the big picture goal.
18:37:16 <RodrigoPadula> http://www.redhat.com/solutions/education/academy/
18:37:19 <kital> inode0: so RodrigoPadula is right to link it to the POSSE undertaking?
18:37:20 <inode0> So a bright, enthusiastic, student often will have more sway over the decisions a faculty person makes than a visit from one of us will.
18:37:41 <inode0> They also have more influence over their peers.
18:37:57 <susmit> inode0, and why do these students need a status of "campus ambassadors"? Why cannot do the same work as an "ambassador"? I am just trying to understand.
18:38:05 <RodrigoPadula> the idea of POSSE and Campus Ambassadors is to spread the open source idea inside the university
18:38:09 <inode0> kital: not directly linked, but probably comes initially from the same initiatives
18:38:28 <kital> inode0: is it not that we are Ambassadors also in our business eco-system
18:39:04 <kital> be it universities, solution providers, service company, military ....
18:39:13 <susmit> s/why cannot/why can not they
18:39:17 <inode0> susmit: that was debated early on and the original decision (which Fedora wasn't really part of making) was that they would be separate
18:39:30 <RodrigoPadula> it's the first red hat step to implant/implement the RHA inside the universities around the world, I guess
18:39:36 <inode0> people can argue that point either way I think
18:39:46 <kital> inode0: +1
18:39:55 <ke4qqq> susmit: that was back in 2008 - you can see the list archives
18:40:07 <ke4qqq> but the only famsco question I see is regarding mentors
18:40:11 <susmit> inode0, ok..but I am confused about what exactly is required from us.
18:40:16 <inode0> RHA is never going to take in Universities in NA
18:40:16 <ke4qqq> or did I miss something in the mail
18:40:44 <kital> ok why we are discussing it here? - The Answer we are asked to welcome the inside Ambassadors to have quality assurance - sounds good independend from sense on nonsense
18:40:48 <inode0> susmit: as I said in my reply to them, I think they should mentor themselves
18:41:09 * ke4qqq offers to take this back to rrix and find exactly what he wants from famsco if there are no objections
18:41:22 <susmit> ke4qqq, please do. Thanks.
18:41:27 <ke4qqq> so we have a clearer vision of what we are doing.
18:41:35 * inode0 really sees no reason for famsco to be involved at this point
18:41:45 <inode0> except in a supportive way of course
18:41:51 <ke4qqq> me either quite honestly - but he mentioned coming to famsco
18:41:55 <RodrigoPadula> Guys, I think the campusambassadors new role will generate a big confusion and management problem
18:42:05 <kital> inode0: but if they need to get ressources they have to use our infrastructure and as long they have ambassador in the name it reflects also on famsco
18:42:16 <ke4qqq> RodrigoPadula: the role has been around for 2+ years now
18:42:47 <RodrigoPadula> ke4qqq, and how many campus ambassadors we have working ?
18:42:51 <inode0> kital: we have budget commitment to support their needs
18:43:18 <RodrigoPadula> the best way is to add something about the campus role inside the regular ambassadors program
18:43:25 <inode0> and if they must become ambassadors first then they pass the other tests
18:43:33 <kital> RodrigoPadula: they are 8 members
18:43:39 <RodrigoPadula> :-)
18:43:43 <inode0> which was my understanding of things now
18:44:01 <inode0> there were many more, they deleted everyone and started over
18:44:05 <RodrigoPadula> it will be more effective to use the regular role
18:44:19 <inode0> RodrigoPadula: it hasn't been
18:44:21 * ke4qqq suggests we go look at the famsco logs from back in 2008 and see what was brought up about this when Jack started the program. there may be prior decisions in place
18:44:38 <kital> ke4qqq: +1
18:44:58 <ke4qqq> I know it was discussed on list back then, but that's about it
18:45:04 <kital> inode0: it works in india for students very well
18:45:07 <susmit> ke4qqq, I don't remember..probably there was none.
18:45:23 <susmit> kital, what? Campus ambassadors?
18:45:29 <inode0> kital: works in what way?
18:45:31 <ke4qqq> susmit: if that's the case, then I guess we are free to decide if we want to deal with it or not.
18:45:40 <RodrigoPadula> inode0, our regular ambassadors are responsible by spread fedora inside universities since program was applyed
18:46:00 <inode0> RodrigoPadula: regular ambassadors can spread Fedora wherever they can
18:46:07 <ke4qqq> iirc, this was modeled after the mozilla campus ambassadors program or something similiar
18:46:15 <kital> susmit: yes most indian contributors are students and if they are active they have influence - from my external pov
18:46:21 <RodrigoPadula> inode0, so, why create/use a new role
18:46:33 <inode0> campus ambassadors will have a special place to do this work that regular ambassadors can't have
18:47:28 <inode0> living there gives you far more influence than visiting once in a while
18:47:32 <susmit> kital, no, they are not campus ambassadors, they are ambassadors, we don't recognize anyone from India as campus ambassador
18:47:55 <inode0> if nothing else, it is an encouragement to get more ambassadors active while they are students
18:47:56 <RodrigoPadula> inode0, as I told, great part of our ambassadors around the world are students
18:47:58 <kital> inode0: following http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors#Who_are_we.3F
18:48:07 <RodrigoPadula> spreading fedora inside universities
18:48:10 <kital> inode0: they matching this role
18:48:22 <RodrigoPadula> create/use a new role will change nothing
18:48:23 * ke4qqq moves to table this and bring up at next meeting with specific actions to vote up or down -we aren't getting anything accomplished here
18:48:55 <RodrigoPadula> IMHO we will spend time in vain
18:48:57 <susmit> ke4qqq, very true.
18:49:11 <tatica> ke4qqq, +1
18:49:13 <RodrigoPadula> ke4qqq, +1
18:49:14 <susmit> let's move on till we have more information
18:49:27 <kital> ke4qqq: as long it is outside of famsco we have no power to decide anything
18:49:28 <ke4qqq> #action ke4qqq to follow up with list of actionable items
18:50:01 <kital> the question that was asked to have Campus Ambassadors as a subset of Ambassadors?
18:50:19 <kital> this is something we can consider and vote on next meeting
18:50:27 <kital> #action ke4qqq to follow up with list of actionable items
18:50:47 <kital> ok - we move to the next topic
18:51:12 <kital> #topic Call for action F13 Release Parties
18:51:26 <kital> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/ReleaseParty
18:51:35 <kital> we should start the process
18:51:46 <kital> and we need a volunteer to manage it
18:52:12 <kital> i am heavy involved with some events in africa and austria
18:52:25 <susmit> kital, we had this discussion in APAC meet and likely to have 4-5 events in APAC (at least)
18:52:38 <susmit> release events I mean
18:52:44 <kital> also get the qa for the security spin done - so i can not help this time
18:53:10 * ke4qqq is sadly out of bandwidth as well.
18:53:18 * ke4qqq wonders if we can delegate this to someone outside of famsco
18:53:20 <kital> who can manage the Release Parties?
18:53:51 <susmit> I am busy doing paperwork for something else. So can not do it either.
18:54:13 <kital> lfoppiano ?
18:54:26 <kital> could you help out=
18:54:28 <kital> ?
18:54:52 <kital> call for action
18:55:10 <susmit> :)
18:55:41 <susmit> ok..I will take it.
18:55:41 <kital> ok i will post is to the famsco list
18:55:55 <kital> ah - lfoppiano can you help susmit?
18:56:29 <lfoppiano> yes
18:56:41 <lfoppiano> I'm cooking
18:56:43 <lfoppiano> sorry
18:56:57 <lfoppiano> anyway I also taking care of the dispute
18:56:57 <kital> #action susmit lfoppiano prepare, manage Release Parties - aggregate Reports...
18:57:00 <lfoppiano> I'll take care
18:57:02 <lfoppiano> ops
18:57:05 <kital> lfoppiano: thanks
18:57:06 <lfoppiano> I'll take time but I'll do it
18:57:19 * tatica is about to eat lunch
18:57:27 <kital> should we do a Release Party Contest as well
18:57:33 <tatica> kital, I can help you, but after flisol
18:57:42 <kital> if yes what could be the prise?
18:57:44 <susmit> kital, we will see :)
18:57:49 <tatica> next week I can sart help, but not this week
18:58:07 <kital> susmit: ok you have the topic together with lfoppiano  ;)
18:58:22 <kital> oki doki
18:58:31 <kital> perfect landing
18:58:36 <lfoppiano> brb
18:58:45 <kital> #topic open floor
18:59:12 <kital> anyone anything?
18:59:14 <susmit> none from my side..only a reminder that we should start working on the report.
18:59:45 <ke4qqq> +1 for doing it sooner
19:00:32 <kital> ok maybe interesting -  the emea community initiated a undertaking to have stronger presence in Africa
19:00:44 <tatica> I just need this week to end...
19:00:55 <tatica> then I will have a life again
19:00:56 <tatica> lol
19:01:04 <kital> and we will have a meeting related to this
19:01:04 <kital> Date: Wednesday 21st april
19:01:05 <kital> Time: 19:00 UTC
19:01:05 <kital> Place: #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net
19:01:19 <kital> i will attend to show support from famsco
19:01:26 <kital> please feel free to join
19:01:30 <susmit> sure
19:01:30 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-April/014260.html
19:02:15 <kital> ok nothing more?
19:02:23 <kital> thanks all for attending  ;)
19:02:40 <tatica> noup :D
19:02:45 <kital> #endmeeting