20:00:52 <mchua> #startmeeting
20:00:53 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Mar  2 20:00:52 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:55 <mchua> #chair rbergeron
20:00:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: mchua rbergeron
20:01:07 <mchua> rrix has an announcement, then rbergeron will take it away on the slogan
20:01:55 * wonderer sittin here and listening ;-)
20:02:03 <mchua> #topic rrix announcement
20:02:06 <mchua> rrix: All yours.
20:02:10 <rrix> Yeah, so, last week mchua and I knocked together talking points for the KDE release. Tonight (5 or 6:00 UTC)I'm gonna be narrowing them down, anyone interested in joining in on the fun is welcome to show up
20:02:15 <rrix> sorry, laggy ssh :)
20:02:17 <mchua> rrix: linky plz?
20:02:23 <rrix> yup, working on it ;)
20:02:40 <rrix> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KDE/F13_Talking_Points
20:02:58 <rrix> so, yeah, anyone interested ping me in -mktg or -kde tonight
20:03:12 <rrix> EOF
20:03:21 <wonderer> thanky
20:03:31 * rbergeron claps
20:04:00 * rrix bows and steps aside for rbergeron
20:04:06 <mchua> #topic Release slogan
20:04:09 <rbergeron> fistpump!
20:04:11 <rbergeron> okay
20:04:19 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP
20:04:22 <rrix> win 24
20:04:24 <rrix> gah
20:04:36 * mchua is frantically cleaning up the talking points in the background; they're getting polish and links.
20:05:01 <rbergeron> we've had a week for people to be ppopulating the F13 release slogan page with potential slogans
20:05:13 <rbergeron> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_release_slogan
20:05:19 <rbergeron> and we do have... well, a LOT to choose from.
20:05:35 <rbergeron> I'd just like to review really quick some of the criteria -
20:05:49 <rbergeron> short, call to action, positive
20:06:00 <rbergeron> t should reinforce that Fedora helps the user achieve something great. It should also reflect some of ideas and themes found in the release artwork, and, if possible, also touch upon the Four Foundations (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations
20:06:04 * rbergeron copypastes
20:06:23 <AamirBhutto> heh
20:06:34 * mchua trying to pull stickster, mizmo, and Design Team in
20:06:52 <mchua> (but proceed)
20:07:05 <rbergeron> #info theme is, in general, space / rocketry / etc.
20:07:16 <mchua> going off the "Goddard" release name.
20:07:34 <rbergeron> #info theme is based on the F13 name, Goddard, who is considered one of the ... fathers? of modern rocketry, etc.
20:07:41 * rbergeron dittos on mchua
20:07:45 <nmarques> geeky technological oriented fits well in the theme
20:07:50 <mchua> #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Goddard
20:08:32 * stickster sorry he's late, just got off another call
20:08:44 <stickster> Need to check logs, hang on
20:08:59 <mchua> Np, stickster - rbergeron was just recapping the ground rules.
20:09:06 <stickster> OK, good to go
20:09:28 <rbergeron> so.
20:09:49 <rbergeron> I'm not entirely sure where we go from here - shall we all check the slogan suggestions and propose a few that we think are outstanding, and go from there?
20:10:22 <stickster> rbergeron: I think that's probably the best move. We can't really do a vote on each and every one.
20:10:25 <mchua> That sounds like a good starting point.
20:10:39 <mchua> I'm looking up last time's logs in parallel - I think we captured this, but didn't link it to the wiki.
20:10:55 <stickster> Would gobby help with this at all?
20:10:56 <rbergeron> yes, I think that is what we did last time, although we had far fewer to choose from.
20:11:20 <stickster> Yes, I recall going through them individually then.
20:12:00 <mchua> That's what I remember too; I can't quickly find the logs from last time.
20:12:18 * rbergeron will have to switch computers if we need gobby, my laptop is currently being abused in a test :) so lmk if we want to do that
20:13:05 <rbergeron> otherwise:
20:13:14 <mchua> So... everyone look at the list and pull out... say... 5?
20:13:34 <stickster> rbergeron: Maybe we can handle it here, don't want to be a burden
20:13:37 * mchua wishes this could be more fair to people who can't make this meeting, but it /was/ well-announced, and there are some good descriptions here.
20:13:37 <stickster> mchua: +1
20:13:43 * mchua looking for 5 now.
20:13:51 <rbergeron> soar, explore, Ignite, reach, Believe, engage.
20:13:59 * mchua also standing next to Mo's desk right now in case Mo gets back in time.
20:14:05 <mchua> There's a lot of hello kitty. :)
20:14:07 <rbergeron> stickster: it would be totally easy, but I think documenting what we do in gobby is kind of difficult
20:14:22 <rbergeron> and i think this is probably visible enough that people might want to say
20:14:44 <rbergeron> "how did they decide?" and... sans gobby video, might be hard to say, here's what we did.
20:14:47 <rbergeron> vs. saying, here's the log
20:15:02 * mchua chuckles at "Revelations of Fedora - The Thirteenth Chapter"
20:15:10 <mchua> I'm down to 8, right now.
20:15:11 * stickster laugs at m-m-m-my fedora
20:15:17 <rbergeron> yeah, i was just going to say that stickster
20:15:25 <mchua> ascend, rock it, achieve, boldly go!, engage, make it so, ignite, soar
20:15:29 * mchua culls out 3
20:15:37 <mchua> stickster: and now that song is stuck in my brain.
20:15:46 <stickster> Rock it. Achieve. Explore. Soar.
20:15:54 <stickster> My favorite is definitely "Rock it."
20:15:54 <rbergeron> i laughed at it for like 10 minutes last night
20:15:57 * mchua has 5: ascend, rock it, boldly go!, ignite, soar
20:16:11 <mchua> actually, can we #info our votes?
20:16:11 <nmarques> Conquer, Ignite, "ad astra"
20:16:13 <rbergeron> i like the star trek references, but it seems corny to use them
20:16:18 <mchua> #info mchua votes "ascend, rock it, boldly go!, ignite, soar"
20:16:33 <stickster> I can't find a 5th I like.
20:16:37 <mchua> hey, caillon - nice timing. We're all picking our favorite 5 ideas from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_release_slogan and discussing.
20:16:44 <rbergeron> #info rbergeron is for soar, explore, Ignite, reach, Believe, engage
20:16:56 <mchua> not rock it? ;)
20:17:05 <stickster> #info pfrields votes "Rock it / Soar / Explore / Achieve" in that order
20:17:11 * mchua pulling votes into a text doc so we can see which ones are redundant
20:17:16 <mchua> nmarques: I'll put yours in
20:17:18 <rbergeron> dude! i feel terrible about voting for myself
20:17:20 <AamirBhutto> Liftoff, Launch yourself, Explore Together, Revelations of Fedora - The Thirteenth Chapter
20:17:20 <stickster> c'mon rbergeron, you're among friends here, you don't have to hold back just because it's yours.
20:17:27 <stickster> It's clever and awesome.
20:17:28 <mchua> #info nmarques votes conquer, ignite, ad astra
20:17:30 <rbergeron> #info rbergeron is also for "rock it" because it's awesome and hers
20:17:40 <rbergeron> :)
20:17:46 <stickster> Is everyone voting in order of preference?
20:17:48 <mchua> #info AamirBhutto votes liftoff, launch yourself, explore together, revelations of fedora - the thirteenth chapter
20:17:49 * stickster did
20:17:53 <mchua> stickster: I was in no discernible order.
20:17:53 <nmarques> is "rock it" geeky ?
20:17:59 <wonderer> Infinite, Engage, Ignite, Ma-ma-ma-my Fedora and Reaching would be mine...
20:18:00 <stickster> mchua: Putting them in order helps
20:18:00 <caillon> has it been whittled down at all or just picking from the entire list?
20:18:10 <mchua> caillon: Your favorite 5 from the entire list.
20:18:13 <mchua> this is the first whittling.
20:18:22 <stickster> caillon: We're doing the whittling down here. Many of them don't fit the rules, it would probably help to remove the clutter
20:18:25 <mchua> #info wonderer votes infinite, engage, ignite, ma-ma-ma-my Fedora, reaching
20:18:27 <rbergeron> rock it is sort of ... a play on English words, I suppose.
20:18:28 <stickster> mchua: Do we have time for me to do that?
20:18:35 <mchua> stickster: rank-order everything?
20:18:45 <wonderer> rbergeron: you are not (right now) voting. So relax ;-)
20:18:45 <rbergeron> I think it would be a lovely banner dichotomy to have a rocket, next to rock it.
20:18:48 <stickster> mchua: No, reduce clutter in the wiki by removing things that didn't adhere to the guideline
20:18:51 <stickster> *s
20:18:59 <stickster> i.e. move them to a secondary table
20:18:59 <rbergeron> no no, i'm just explaining to nmarques
20:19:01 <stickster> Not delete
20:19:02 <rbergeron> if it's geeky
20:19:08 <AamirBhutto> Rock it is cool too
20:19:33 <rbergeron> It's definitely word-geeky. Not easily translatable, however
20:19:36 <stickster> mchua: Sorry, I think we have two lines of questions going on and I think I'm confused.
20:20:03 <stickster> #info stickster thinks it would be helpful for people's preferences to be rank-ordered, highest first.
20:20:12 <stickster> And second...
20:20:20 <AamirBhutto> ehh good.
20:20:21 <rbergeron> oh. okay
20:20:35 <mchua> Okay, right now we have 17 on the table.
20:20:37 <stickster> Should we move table entries that don't follow the guidelines so that we have an easier time focusing on the ones that are more in line with our guidelines?
20:20:41 <wonderer> hmm, ok. my list was yet not ordered ... can do it again...
20:20:50 <stickster> wonderer: Please, thanks
20:21:03 <mchua> stickster: Actually, let's do that with the shorter list of 17 we have now.
20:21:12 * caillon really likes "Pioneer within" but thinks it could work as a more generic project slogan
20:21:14 <mchua> (if caillon comes up with his list in the middle of this, we can add them in)
20:21:26 <mchua> Steel yourselves for a dump, folks; 17 lines
20:21:38 <rbergeron> #info rbergeron is "rock it," ignite, explore, believe, soar.
20:21:50 <rbergeron> #info in order of her preference
20:21:52 <mchua> ** soar
20:21:53 <mchua> ** explore
20:21:53 <mchua> ** rock it
20:21:53 <mchua> * ignite
20:21:53 <mchua> * reach
20:21:55 <mchua> * engage
20:21:55 <wonderer> Infinite, Ignite, reaching, engage, ma-ma-ma-my Fedora << ordered list; best=in front (lefthanded).
20:21:57 <mchua> boldly go
20:22:00 <mchua> ignite
20:22:02 <mchua> believe
20:22:05 <mchua> achieve
20:22:07 <mchua> conquer
20:22:10 <mchua> ad astra
20:22:12 <mchua> liftoff
20:22:15 <mchua> launch yourself
20:22:17 <mchua> infinite
20:22:20 <mchua> ma-ma-ma-my Fedora
20:22:22 <mchua> Stars mean an additional person voted for that (so we have 3 votes on soar, for instance)
20:22:26 <mchua> stickster: *now* cull the ones that don't fit guidelines :)
20:22:35 <stickster> mchua: Thanks!
20:22:45 * stickster strikes conquer, too aggressive
20:22:47 <mchua> oh, sorry - left one out: Revelations of the 13th chapter
20:22:53 <stickster> Shall I #info instead?
20:22:53 * mchua guesses that will be stricken soon as well
20:22:58 <caillon> heh
20:23:15 <mchua> stickster: note the ones to strike in #info, I'll do it in this text doc and paste the results when you're done with your fell swooping.
20:23:24 <stickster> #info strike: conquer, ad astra, infinite, The Knack, and Revelations
20:23:34 <mchua> why infinite?
20:23:38 <stickster> It's not a CTA.
20:23:42 <mchua> oh, right
20:23:43 <stickster> You can't infinite
20:23:46 <stickster> Or maybe *you* can
20:23:51 <stickster> But I sure can't :-D
20:24:00 * caillon totally can
20:24:02 <nmarques> objection vs abstraction :(
20:24:04 * mchua infinites
20:24:04 <stickster> Except if beer is involved
20:24:17 <rbergeron> lol
20:24:19 <mchua> stickster: how about ma-ma-ma-my Fedora?
20:24:29 <stickster> strike (The Knack, sorry, I made a joke above)
20:24:31 * rbergeron votes that that goes to the music department for fixing
20:24:34 <mchua> Ohhhhh
20:24:46 <wonderer> mchua: stickster: last we have Unite ... now we have Infinite ...
20:24:49 <stickster> kids these days *sigh
20:24:51 <rbergeron> video :)
20:24:52 <caillon> stickster, quit dating yourself
20:24:54 <stickster> haha
20:25:07 <stickster> If I had a dime for every time I played *that* one in a smoky bar
20:25:14 <stickster> I'd have, like $3.20
20:25:16 <mchua> Okay. We have a list of 14 now.
20:25:18 <rbergeron> lol
20:25:21 <AamirBhutto> heh
20:25:22 <mchua> Re-post, everyone pick top 5 again?
20:25:27 <rbergeron> how is my sharona dating anyone?
20:25:34 * rbergeron is wondering just how old she is... jeeez
20:25:39 <rbergeron> :)
20:25:44 <mchua> Ooh, we're getting designers in the channel
20:25:47 <mchua> just in time for the second round
20:25:50 <AamirBhutto> Revelations of Fedora - The Thirteenth Chapter, Lanuch Yourself, Rock It
20:26:00 <stickster> Rock it / Soar / Explore / Engage / Achieve
20:26:05 <mchua> #info Round 2
20:26:09 <mchua> whoops
20:26:12 <mchua> #topic Round 2
20:26:17 <mchua> Here's the list:
20:26:19 <mchua> soar
20:26:20 <mchua> explore
20:26:20 <mchua> rock it
20:26:20 <mchua> ignite
20:26:23 <mchua> reach
20:26:25 <mchua> engage
20:26:28 <mchua> boldly go
20:26:30 <mchua> ignite
20:26:33 <mchua> believe
20:26:35 <mchua> achieve
20:26:38 <mchua> liftoff
20:26:40 <mchua> launch yourself
20:26:43 <mchua> infinite
20:26:45 <mchua> ascend
20:26:48 <mchua> Everyone pick 5 and #info it - if you did already but not in an #info my grep won't catch ya ;)
20:26:54 <stickster> strike infinite!
20:27:00 <mchua> stickster: ah! sorry!
20:27:10 <stickster> np, just noting
20:27:14 <wonderer> aehm, so I vote again...
20:27:14 <mchua> We now have 13 potential F13 slogans ;)
20:27:16 <stickster> #info stickster Rock it / Soar / Explore / Engage / Achieve
20:27:21 * rbergeron envisions the mediate video from inxs
20:27:26 * rbergeron wonders if that's dating herself too
20:27:37 <stickster> Ah yes
20:27:40 <mchua> #info mchua rock it, boldly go, ascend, ignite, explore
20:27:43 <AamirBhutto> Revelations?? where did that one gone ?
20:27:51 <stickster> AamirBhutto: Didn't follow guidelines.
20:27:58 <AamirBhutto> #info AamirBhutto Rock it , Launch Yourself
20:28:13 <nmarques> #info nmarques ignire, rock it, believe, reach
20:28:20 <mchua> stickster, mchua, AamirBhutto, nmarques, got your votes
20:28:22 <nmarques> ignite
20:28:27 <wonderer> #info wonderer infinite, engage, believe, rock it, explore
20:28:29 <caillon> #info caillon achieve, soar, ascend, engage
20:28:30 <anthro-diana> #info mchua explore, engage, ignite, achieve, ascend
20:28:31 <rbergeron> #info rbergeron rock it / ignite / achieve / explore / liftoff
20:28:51 <anthro-diana> #info anthro-diana explore, engage, ignite, achieve, ascend
20:28:54 <stickster> wonderer: infinite was struck off the list, sorry there was a goof above
20:28:55 <rbergeron> i think i'd like "launch yourself" better if it was just "launch"
20:29:07 <caillon> heh.  "go launch yourself"
20:29:10 * rbergeron realizes that would be better in round one discussions but... there you go
20:29:10 <anthro-diana> lol
20:29:11 <stickster> Yeah
20:29:11 <rbergeron> lol
20:29:16 <rbergeron> wow, that was funny
20:29:20 <AamirBhutto> Should i info again and again ?
20:29:24 <AamirBhutto> Till round 3 :)
20:29:26 * rbergeron was actually doing the "ol" part of lol
20:29:29 <wonderer> ah, ok. then -1 rom my list ;-)
20:29:34 <wonderer> +f
20:29:59 <mchua> wonderer, caillon, anthro-diana, rbergeron, got your votes
20:30:08 * mchua tallies, orders
20:30:10 <mchua> it's close
20:30:53 <mchua> This time, the number of stars is the number of votes, period
20:30:59 <mchua> ****** rock it
20:30:59 <mchua> **** explore
20:30:59 <mchua> **** engage
20:30:59 <mchua> **** achieve
20:31:01 <mchua> **** ascend
20:31:03 <mchua> ** soar
20:31:06 <mchua> ** ignite
20:31:08 <mchua> ** ignite
20:31:11 <mchua> ** believe
20:31:13 <mchua> * launch yourself
20:31:16 <mchua> * reach
20:31:18 <mchua> * boldly go
20:31:21 <mchua> liftoff
20:31:23 * mchua motions to drop everything beyond 4 stars and discuss the last 5
20:32:01 <stickster> Yeah
20:32:05 <caillon> did ignite get counted as 4 or as 2?
20:32:08 <wonderer> +1
20:32:14 * caillon notes it's there twice
20:32:24 <mchua> oh, sorry, I copypasted and didn't...
20:32:29 <mchua> delete the extra.
20:32:31 * mchua is not a machine
20:32:35 <rbergeron> what!
20:32:39 <AamirBhutto> lol
20:32:39 <mchua> I swear. Really.
20:32:41 <rbergeron> but she is awesome
20:32:45 * stickster though mchua was actuall a new Emacs mode.
20:32:51 <rbergeron> lol
20:32:54 <rbergeron> set -o mchua
20:32:54 <wonderer> proof it :-)
20:33:01 * caillon thinks stickster needs a spellcheck emacs mode
20:33:01 <stickster> M-x run-my-meeting
20:33:07 <AamirBhutto> lol
20:33:08 <mchua> All right, ROUND 3!
20:33:10 <mchua> #topic round 3
20:33:13 <stickster> M-x be-my-typist-hunspell
20:33:31 <mchua> #info We're down to 5 finalists: rock it, explore, engage, achieve, ascend
20:33:40 <mchua> And we've got nearly half an hour.
20:33:54 <mchua> Shall we quickly discuss each in turn, with the helpful wiki page notes for context?
20:34:13 * mchua hears no objections ;)
20:34:14 <mchua> #topic rock it
20:34:24 <mchua> from the wiki: "allusion to / play on the word "rocket," meaning to use Fedora proudly!"
20:34:27 <mchua> other discussion?
20:34:36 * mchua has translation concerns on this one
20:34:37 <stickster> The pun loses something in translation, but most people can find a local translation for "to rock"
20:34:46 * rbergeron notes that this will be awesome in a banner next to a rocket
20:34:59 <mchua> that would, in fact, rock it.
20:35:00 <stickster> Because the meaning is "try it out, show it proudly"
20:35:02 <mchua> (sorry)
20:35:04 * anthro-diana agrees with rbergeron
20:35:21 <mchua> Lots of graphic/design possibilities here.
20:35:25 <mchua> Ok. Any last words on rock it?
20:35:33 <stickster> I love it, I can't help it.
20:35:35 <AamirBhutto> It Rocks :)
20:35:36 <rbergeron> stickster, didn't you also allude to the idea that locales could pick something else if needed?
20:35:41 <rbergeron> i mean... possibly not rock related
20:36:06 <stickster> rbergeron: They can and they do. For example for "Fire it up" some people used something closer to "Turn it on" or "Run it now"
20:36:07 * nmarques wishes for martin's 30 on the rocks.
20:36:09 <caillon> in many countries they also probably understand "Rock it"
20:36:12 * rbergeron nods
20:36:20 <stickster> caillon: Or at least the concept of "rockin'"
20:36:21 <caillon> and could maybe have that in along side a native translation
20:36:25 <caillon> or just not translate that
20:36:32 <rbergeron> i suppose they could be a rock'n'roll, although it doesn't really go with the rocket.
20:36:34 * caillon sees tons of non-translated ads in foreign lands
20:36:42 <caillon> for something such as "Rock It"
20:36:43 <stickster> I think it still has value even without the "rock it / rocket" pun
20:36:47 * mchua too
20:36:49 <stickster> Because it sounds fun and energetic
20:36:51 <mchua> Shall we move on?
20:36:57 <rbergeron> indeed
20:36:59 <stickster> +1
20:36:59 <mchua> all right
20:37:02 <mchua> #topic explore
20:37:07 <mchua> There were several slogan options with the word "Explore" in them; the one that was just "Explore!" had no context text beside it, but here are the rest.
20:37:10 <wonderer> rock solid, rock IT (=Information Technology), etc. many GOOD translations.
20:37:11 <mchua> From the wiki: "Fedora enables collaboration and discovery for its users. Invite user to discover an unlimited way to use their computers."
20:37:14 <mchua> Go.
20:37:21 <mchua> wonderer: ...ooh. I... did not see that one.
20:37:43 <rbergeron> I like it
20:37:55 <rbergeron> although ... I guess it's not completely, maybe, definitive?
20:38:18 <mchua> Well, explore - we want people to do that, be First, try things out, push the envelope.
20:38:24 <stickster> It's not as tightly tied to the graphic, even though there's an allusion to space exploration
20:38:25 <rbergeron> Exploring... I don't like to think about having to explore when I need my computer. I just want it to do.
20:38:33 <rbergeron> Oh, and freakin internet explorer
20:38:44 <wonderer> explore, Explorer -> near Internet Explorer ... had concerns about that a bit...
20:38:46 <anthro-diana> lol I didn't think of that one rebergeron
20:38:47 <rbergeron> But it definitely goes with like... the First foundation.
20:38:56 <stickster> rbergeron: I think some people are going to see it that way, yes -- we have some people who want to learn and explore their computer itself, but for many people it's just at tool to do what really matters.
20:38:57 <rbergeron> Get out there, explore, be first
20:39:05 <stickster> s/at tool/a tool/
20:39:17 <rbergeron> stickster: i totally agree that people do want to explore their computer
20:39:21 * rbergeron does that
20:39:30 <anthro-diana> and explore what their computer can do
20:39:32 <stickster> rbergeron: Actually I was agreeing with *you*, you can't do that! :-D
20:39:35 <rbergeron> oh
20:39:45 <rbergeron> well. I agree with you too! hah!
20:39:50 <stickster> I don't think our pitch to people should be "come explore how your computer works"
20:39:59 <mchua> So it sounds like explore is cool, but there are some more concerns here than with the first slogan.
20:40:03 <stickster> It's hard to separate that from "Explore the world of free software"
20:40:12 <anthro-diana> it goes along with the same idea as 'where do you want to go today' ala windows
20:40:20 <rbergeron> oh
20:40:22 <stickster> Really, lots of people want the software to just be out of their way
20:40:39 <stickster> But if we help them explore what's important to them, that's cool.
20:40:43 <AamirBhutto> Explore is good. Inspiring to me.
20:40:55 <rbergeron> I do think it is inspiring
20:40:56 <mchua> Ok, so explore sounds like we may have to be careful it's interpeted in the right way.
20:40:57 <AamirBhutto> Explore the possiblites with Free O/S
20:41:01 <mchua> If interpreted the right way, it's very inspiring
20:41:03 <nmarques> it also sounds like an invitation, which is nice, and a good call card
20:41:09 <mchua> but if spun the wrong way, potentially not so good.
20:41:14 <stickster> mchua: Right
20:41:18 <mchua> Yeah, I do like the invitation-feel
20:41:20 <AamirBhutto> rbergeron It is to *ME* :)
20:41:28 <mchua> All right. So, looking at the next one...
20:41:29 <rbergeron> i can definitely see lots of people making fun of it wrt the windows thing, though
20:41:34 <AamirBhutto> Explore = hidden truth :)
20:41:40 <mchua> Next one?
20:41:43 <rbergeron> yes
20:41:43 <stickster> +1
20:41:45 <mchua> #topic engage
20:41:51 <mchua> From the wiki: "Another illusion to Star Trek and moving forward! Also used in other movies and in historical footage from NASA missions."
20:42:04 <wonderer> angage has something to do with marriage for me ...
20:42:07 <rbergeron> I like it, it's got geek-coolness
20:42:10 <rbergeron> oh
20:42:17 <mchua> I like the solidity of this word, the reaching-out connotations... but like wonderer pointed out, it could also be getting down on your knee with a ring.
20:42:18 <rbergeron> what, you're not married to your job and computer? :)
20:42:28 <stickster> "Engage... WITH YOUR KEYBOARD."
20:42:30 <stickster> eew.
20:42:34 * nmarques engages according to operational parameters.
20:42:37 <BenjaminKreuter> "illusion," not "allusion?"
20:42:39 <wonderer> Engage! is another meaning. Be aware of the interpuction...
20:42:41 <AamirBhutto> Engage yourself ?
20:42:43 <stickster> Yeah, it seems a little tech-heavy to me.
20:42:44 <mchua> So I have similar sentiments as to "explore" - potentially totally cool, but there's a way it could be read... um... not quite as intended.
20:42:56 <rbergeron> BenjaminKreuter: I think we cut and pasted there from whoever submitted it to the list.
20:42:57 <stickster> I do like the potential for "engage" ~= "participate"
20:42:58 <rbergeron> typos and all :)
20:43:05 <stickster> But that's really hard to make clear in a one-word slogan.
20:43:08 <anthro-diana> I really like engage :)
20:43:13 <nmarques> engage invites to inter-action, is always a good thing as well, and a bold approach
20:43:27 <BenjaminKreuter> rbergeron: we should probably update that one...that is a glaring error
20:43:43 * stickster gets the stomach rumbles from Star Trek references. Even though he watched plenty of it as a kid.
20:43:46 <nmarques> and doesn't sound too trekie to me
20:43:52 <anthro-diana> paired with a countdown it could be very cool
20:43:56 <anthro-diana> like liftoff
20:44:24 <stickster> anthro-diana: I *do* think we could use "launch" or "engage" for our countdown banners... so just because we find one slogan here doesn't mean the rest are dead to us
20:44:24 <mchua> Oh, the countdown graphics for this release had better be awesome. :
20:44:25 <wonderer> angage could also translatet (here around) something similar as "the contact" and to engage means something war alike, to confront, do go in, something aggresive...
20:44:28 <rbergeron> BenjaminKreuter: i think we tried to keep it fairly low-key with the spell-checker stuff, i'm sure if we narrowed engage down to the final choice we would definitely do some wiki editing :)
20:44:32 <AamirBhutto> Engage reminds me of a nokia cell phone N GAGE
20:44:33 <AamirBhutto> :)
20:44:37 <stickster> wonderer: Hm, good point
20:44:40 <mchua> huh
20:44:44 <stickster> engage meaning... in battle
20:44:53 <caillon> with your computer
20:44:54 <stickster> That's not a good connotation.
20:44:55 * caillon wishes this would work
20:44:57 * mchua wants to, at the end, loop around and make sure we can't find any concerns with "rock it"
20:44:58 <nmarques> wonderer, it has a strong military conotation, that's true as well
20:44:58 <rbergeron> since they were people's submissions for slogan ideas... i don't know that going through and editing everyone's suggestions is the best idea
20:45:08 <stickster> mchua: *nod
20:45:22 <rbergeron> poeple get touchy about this stuff :)
20:45:37 <caillon> they can go launch themselves
20:45:48 <rbergeron> lol
20:45:51 <anthro-diana> lol
20:46:02 <stickster> rbergeron: +1... I think we all saw what the OP wanted us to, which is the important part.
20:46:11 <stickster> caillon: :-D
20:46:17 <mchua> All right. Next slogan.
20:46:23 <mchua> #topic achieve
20:46:23 <mchua> From the wiki: "Reach your goals with Fedora / Fedora is full of achievements! / Brainstormed from the idea that Goddard reached for the stars, did things despite their impossibilities, and achieved greatness."
20:46:36 <rbergeron> yeah, so, i think this one was mine.... i forgot i put it in
20:46:36 <Southern_Gentlem> stickster,  since you have a release name of goddard i think atechie slogan would be a good thing
20:46:55 <rbergeron> i actually thought achieve was a word in a goddard quote, so i put it in, and then realized... it wasn't a goddard quote... it was from the list of
20:46:56 <nmarques> achieve shows some maturity, good thing :)
20:46:58 <stickster> There's a difference between an in-joke and a slogan though
20:47:02 <rbergeron> requirements. "helps the user achieve something great"
20:47:19 <stickster> rbergeron: Heh, interesting
20:47:20 <nmarques> implies the satizfaction of a need
20:47:25 <stickster> "Achieve... with achievement!"
20:47:29 <nmarques> which is always seens as good
20:47:31 <rbergeron> and then i was like... wow, that was dumb of me. but i'll leave it it.
20:47:33 <rbergeron> it in.
20:47:36 <stickster> Nothing achieves like achievement"
20:47:40 <rbergeron> Because I don't think it's bad, per se
20:47:46 <rbergeron> it's just kind of recursive ;)
20:47:48 <AamirBhutto> Achieve Something :)
20:47:52 <stickster> Nope, I don't think it's a big problem
20:48:15 <mchua> I can't think of anything to be concerned about with "achieve!" but it's... kind of... boring.
20:48:18 <caillon> achievement is good...  but then what?
20:48:18 <mchua> (to me.)
20:48:24 <mchua> Yeah, what caillon said.
20:48:27 <AamirBhutto> Achieve can also be used as carry through ?
20:48:32 <rbergeron> I can see next year's list. "Remember, the slogan should help the user achieve something great. For example, last cycle's slogan was, "Achieve." "
20:48:42 <nmarques> achievements are well explored in gaming communities ;)
20:48:45 <stickster> I don't have any big qualms about Achieve... It just doesn't tickle me pink.
20:48:50 <stickster> rbergeron: heh
20:48:55 <Southern_Gentlem> as goddard dreamed of raiseing to new hieghts, Achive you new heights with Fedora
20:48:58 <stickster> rbergeron: Next up, "Be great."
20:48:59 <caillon> achievement is kind of like a finality, really
20:49:01 <wonderer> to achieve an aim, achieve a eminence, resources needed to be achieved are things I have in mind ... but I have that feeling that there is something missing, some kind of gap between. I want to writ "achieve WHAT?"...
20:49:12 <rbergeron> stickster: we should have the "if all else fails, default to this list" list :)
20:49:23 <stickster> caillon: And then a tear slid down Alexander the Great's cheek, for he knew there was no more world to conquer.
20:49:25 <rbergeron> "if an international translation can't be found, try one of these!"
20:49:27 <nmarques> caillon, Achieving, which ones does Fedora will enable? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
20:49:38 <rbergeron> my self awareness!
20:49:45 <wonderer> I have always in mind "it is a slogan, not an explanation or a word wihout something around...
20:49:51 <rbergeron> ponies going to mars!
20:50:19 <stickster> I guess the fun we're having at the expense of "achieve" will be multiplied 10x when we put it in front of others. ;-)
20:50:30 <AamirBhutto> +!
20:50:33 <wonderer> ponies going to mars! given 866.000 hits at google...
20:50:49 <rbergeron> okay, so can we all vote that we're fairly ambivalent about "achieve"?
20:50:51 <AamirBhutto> Ponies going to mars! to acieve what ?
20:50:57 <stickster> rbergeron: yeah... +0
20:50:59 <rbergeron> because we can.
20:51:03 <rbergeron> err, because they can.
20:51:10 <mchua> Okay, last one...
20:51:16 <mchua> #topic ascend
20:51:16 <stickster> rbergeron: I'll push that button, right on
20:51:17 <mchua> From the wiki: "Fedora takes you to new heights."
20:51:17 <caillon> hey there's one!  "Fedora 13.  Because we can"
20:51:29 <stickster> caillon: "And why not?"
20:51:29 <mchua> caillon: even shorter - "Fedora 13. BECAUSE."
20:51:37 <mchua> or "Fedora 13. So?"
20:51:40 <rbergeron> ponies go to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it is hard."
20:51:41 <caillon> heh
20:51:52 <mchua> So... ascend!
20:51:59 <mchua> Overtones of ambition here.
20:52:00 <wonderer> aircraft ascend, balloon ascend, rate of ascend ...
20:52:07 * rbergeron completely botches kennedy speech
20:52:38 <stickster> I don't dislike ascend either but it sounds a little too grand to me... There's a connotation of haughtiness, but I might be reading too much into it
20:52:45 * rbergeron hopes everyone can pronounce ascend in other countries
20:52:54 <AamirBhutto> stickster +1
20:52:58 <rbergeron> so that it doesn't come out like... well, um, donkey, end.
20:53:07 <mchua> stickster: +1
20:53:08 <stickster> rbergeron: Ouch
20:53:10 <caillon> rbergeron, think not of what your fellow ponies can do for you, but what you can do for your fellow ponies
20:53:15 <stickster> lulz
20:53:17 <wonderer> rbergeron: ponies go to the moon is not hard, but would they fly on its own... lets discuss that next week ;-)
20:53:20 <rbergeron> omg
20:53:24 <mchua> jetpacks, wonderer. jetpacks.
20:53:25 <stickster> This is the most laughter I've had in a while at a weekly meeting, thanks all :-D
20:53:27 <rbergeron> caillon, hilarious
20:53:42 <rbergeron> but i'm serious about the pronunciation thing
20:53:50 <stickster> rbergeron: I believe you.
20:53:52 <rbergeron> or if it would be a ... sitting duck target for mockery
20:53:58 <rbergeron> or whatever.
20:53:58 <stickster> Right.
20:54:00 <rbergeron> people are mean!
20:54:03 <AamirBhutto> how can we use ascend mchua ?
20:54:06 <wonderer> mchua: pink or fedorablue, plz.
20:54:08 <stickster> rbergeron: They have not ponie.s
20:54:16 <wonderer> the jetpacks I mean..
20:54:17 * stickster shoots typist in the head
20:54:26 <rbergeron> Ponies, they have not.
20:54:33 <stickster> Have they not ponies?
20:54:40 * rbergeron puts it through the yoda-translator
20:54:50 * nmarques ducks for cover
20:54:54 <stickster> No one's bowled over by "Ascend."
20:55:06 <stickster> mchua: Let's circle back around and see if we're in the mood to poke holes in "Rock it" now
20:55:15 <rbergeron> was that it?
20:55:19 * wonderer wants mo into the ponies discussion ... I draw her blue hello kitty Ferrari ...
20:55:26 <stickster> Oh wait, I was counting 5 and not going by the list
20:55:27 <stickster> sorry
20:55:29 <stickster> mchua: Proceed!
20:55:29 <Southern_Gentlem> Ascend to greatness
20:55:37 <mchua> #topic poking holes in "rock it"
20:55:40 <mchua> go go go!
20:55:45 <AamirBhutto> heh.
20:55:46 <mchua> I'm summarizing feedback for the rest while y'all do that
20:55:56 <stickster> Sorry, I still can't find anything I hate about "Rock it."
20:56:02 <rbergeron> i don't like that def leppard song.
20:56:07 <rbergeron> "rocket"
20:56:14 <rbergeron> but I do like rocket man.
20:56:15 <Southern_Gentlem> i just see herbie hancock
20:56:16 <AamirBhutto> Rock it is good thou, i only concern if we can use the slogan with diff languges ?
20:56:20 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem: YEAH!
20:56:24 <wonderer> the only thing I can think about is that song (dono the tite) where "rock it" was in ... I think from Bombfunk MC's...
20:56:51 <nmarques> guys, care to join "rock it" (disambiguation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning) ?
20:56:55 <wonderer> rocket man ... also a nice song ...
20:57:00 <stickster> AamirBhutto: As we discuss in the guidelines -- although we choose the slogan for best effect in en-US language, we encourage translators to find something compatible that works well if they can't translate the slogan properly
20:57:18 <rbergeron> rock this town, rock it inside ouuuuuuuuut
20:57:23 <nmarques> shouldn't be taken seriously given the background and type of theme
20:57:44 <rbergeron> stickster: if this one is chosen, we shoudl probably craft a process for locales to pick their own
20:57:46 <rbergeron> type message
20:57:52 <rbergeron> or the goahead, or whatever
20:57:57 * Southern_Gentlem goes to find some music to get herbie of my head
20:58:17 <stickster> rbergeron: Yes, we'll include a note in the announcement that translators have the flexibility to find a compatible message that works.
20:58:18 <mchua> Mo is here beside me.
20:58:19 <rbergeron> is there a process where they'd need to get their names approved as well? or do we trust wise people well enough :)
20:58:25 <mchua> mizmo: "we actually have guitar pick designs for Fedora."
20:58:29 <stickster> rbergeron: Trust +1.
20:58:32 <stickster> How would we verify anyway?
20:58:33 <rbergeron> What does Mo say?
20:58:41 <mchua> mizmo: "We can get them done custom." (the guitar picks)
20:58:45 <nmarques> stickster, can I suggest something ?
20:58:46 <mchua> mizmo: "I say rock it."
20:58:48 <rbergeron> ohhhsweet
20:58:53 <wonderer> nmarques: I do not see paralells from stoning to rock it, because you always could construct things like that. we can also construct something like "getting high" with "to be stond" and then "stoning"...
20:59:04 <mchua> So, I think... we... have a pretty good summary of how we feel about these
20:59:07 <mchua> and that we're running out of time
20:59:09 <rbergeron> wonderer: so the folks in amsterdam.... :)
20:59:20 <mchua> so let me just pop the summaries in real quick and then if people think we're missing something we can circle back
20:59:20 <stickster> nmarques: We're discussing things, of course you can! :-)
20:59:28 <mchua> but I think we're getting to the point where we can pick.
20:59:38 <wonderer> mchua: I'll take 14 guitar picks (plectrum) for my collection of E-guitars, plz :-)!
20:59:41 <stickster> mchua: go for it
20:59:43 <mchua> so... hold, please, as I copypaste.
20:59:47 <mchua> #topic quick review of top 5
20:59:57 <rbergeron> do they have a pony paw on one side, and a fedora bubble on the other side? :)
21:00:02 <mchua> #info Rock It: concerns about translation, potential awesome connotations ("rock solid," "rock IT" (Information Technology), fun and energetic
21:00:05 <mchua> #info Explore: concerns about internet explorer, "where do you want to go today" connotation, people don't want to wander around lost on their computer, they want to use it... potential awesome connotations ("explore == First")
21:00:10 <mchua> #info Engage: concerns about getting-married, engage-in-battle secondary meanings, potential awesome connotations ("engage" --> "participate")
21:00:10 <wonderer> rbergeron: yeah. ask max about chocolate beer ;-)
21:00:11 <nmarques> stickster, we can ask the person who posted the slogan to make a 2 or 3 line text to ship with it. Marketing purposes. Should clear everything about disambiguations and we can get for sure the community more involved in participating if we promote this kind of small things.
21:00:13 <mchua> #info Achieve: lukewarm reaction... "achieve... what?"
21:00:16 <mchua> #info Ascend: concerns about sounding haughty
21:00:30 <mchua> nmarques: hypothetically, they did: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_release_slogan
21:00:33 * caillon hasn't heard anyone other than Vic Flick mention the word plectrum
21:00:39 <mchua> So, those summaries... am I missing anything?
21:00:48 <wonderer> +1
21:00:55 <mchua> The vibe I'm getting is that everyone seems to just like "rock it."
21:00:58 <mchua> Really.
21:01:01 <wonderer> sounds good.
21:01:08 <mchua> We can't find anything wrong with it, and we have concerns or lukewarmness about the rest.
21:01:09 <stickster> nmarques: I think that's a great idea
21:01:09 <rbergeron> nmarques: plus we were blogging about it on planet and it went out in email a few times also
21:01:24 <nmarques> stickster, will clear our backs from disambiguations
21:01:43 <stickster> We should have the winning slogan writer (or, if they can't, then someone on the marketing team) write an explanation of the slogan to help translators who don't have a literal translation available
21:01:54 <stickster> rbergeron: anthro-diana: mchua: ^^ +1?
21:01:57 <nmarques> stickster, and will also help promote participation
21:02:00 <mchua> stickster: +1
21:02:05 <AamirBhutto> stickster +1
21:02:08 <mchua> Speaking of the winning slogan...
21:02:11 <rbergeron> i have no objections, obviously.
21:02:15 * rbergeron grins
21:02:17 <stickster> #agreed The winning slogan writer (or, if they can't, then someone on the marketing team) will write an explanation of the slogan to help translators who don't have a literal translation available
21:02:29 <mchua> #action add the last #agreed point to SOP
21:02:32 <stickster> nmarques: Great idea, thanks
21:02:38 <stickster> #undo
21:02:43 <mchua> Yeah, that's a great idea
21:02:44 <anthro-diana> +1
21:02:44 <stickster> oops, zodbot ignored me
21:02:48 <stickster> I was going to take the #action
21:02:48 <mchua> #chair stickster
21:02:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: mchua rbergeron stickster
21:02:53 <mchua> #undo
21:02:53 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x284ae9d0>
21:02:59 <mchua> #action stickster add the last #agreed point to SOP
21:03:03 <mchua> there we go.
21:03:03 <stickster> whee, thanks
21:03:04 <nmarques> stickster, glad to help
21:03:08 <rbergeron> who's announcing?
21:03:09 <mchua> Okay. So. Winning slogan.
21:03:24 <mchua> We have rock it, explore, engage, achieve, ascend.
21:03:38 <mchua> I'm really getting the "+1 rock it" vibe here.
21:03:47 <nmarques> +1 rock it
21:03:51 <mchua> Would anyone disagree, does anyone think this isn't clear?
21:03:55 <stickster> +1 rock it (like there was a doubt)
21:03:58 <mchua> ("do we need to talk more?")
21:04:08 * mchua is also +1 rock it, for the record
21:04:10 <rbergeron> i think i'm down with thi
21:04:11 <rbergeron> this
21:04:13 <rbergeron> :)
21:04:18 <mchua> mizmo is +1 rock it
21:04:29 * wonderer had the feeling that rbergeron have to gve a big party next week ;-)
21:04:37 <rbergeron> lol
21:04:39 <AamirBhutto> Heh
21:04:46 <mchua> caillon, anthro-diana, wonderer, AamirBhutto... y'all good with "rock it"?
21:04:50 <AamirBhutto> +1 Rock It
21:04:54 <wonderer> +1
21:05:00 <caillon> no objection.
21:05:07 <mchua> SO SHALL IT BE
21:05:11 <stickster> Disco.
21:05:14 <rbergeron> rockin.
21:05:30 <mchua> #agreed The F13 slogan is "Rock It."
21:05:35 * wonderer sending dancing ponies to disco
21:05:48 <mchua> #action rbergeron, as slogan-proposer, gets to write the 2-3 line explanation text. ;)
21:05:58 <stickster> First person who gives me a picture of Fedora ponies dancing under a disco ball gets a free VoIP phone. I AM NOT KIDDING.
21:06:01 <rbergeron> yes, but i'm not announcing it
21:06:02 <rbergeron> :)
21:06:19 <mchua> Who's doing the announcement?
21:06:25 <rbergeron> not i, said the cat
21:06:27 <rbergeron> err
21:06:28 <mchua> We usually get new folks to do it ;)
21:06:30 <rbergeron> not i, said the pony
21:06:36 <mchua> nmarques: what do you say? ;)
21:07:04 <nmarques> ?
21:07:31 <nmarques> about Rock it? I voted on it since the beginning :)
21:08:10 <mchua> nmarques: Feel like writing the announcement that the F13 slogan is "Rock It"?
21:08:14 <mchua> (We'll help.)
21:08:28 <stickster> nmarques: Yup, we'll help, put a draft on the wiki and we can edit for you
21:08:34 <mchua> But it's semi-traditional that announcements for deliverables are written by new Marketing team members.
21:08:36 <nmarques> I can propose something, but if someone's edits it, sure
21:08:46 <mchua> Or.. well, "semi-traditional" == "we've done it a couple times and it's been fun"
21:08:54 <mchua> (also, folks get to know who you are, etc)
21:09:03 <mchua> #action nmarques to write the announcement about the F13 slogan
21:09:10 <mchua> (we'll be in #fedora-mktg to help)
21:09:20 <mchua> And... ladies and gentlemen, with that, I do believe we are finished.
21:09:24 <mchua> Any other business?
21:09:28 <nmarques> I'll bomb the list about it, no worries :)
21:09:31 * mchua grins
21:09:31 <AamirBhutto> stickster tough to find ponies | tougher dacing one's
21:09:39 <nmarques> stickster, that would be great :)
21:10:04 <mchua> All right. And with that, I hereby declare this meeting over.
21:10:19 <stickster> mchua: Thanks for the extra time ;-)
21:10:24 <mchua> Next week we'll be talking about the Marketing FAD, and discussing feature profiles; we'll begin that discussion on-list.
21:10:31 <mchua> stickster: Yeah, I must be getting slack. 10 minutes over, geez.
21:10:33 <mchua> ;)
21:10:35 <mchua> thank you all!
21:10:41 <stickster> Oh yeah, you underachiever you
21:10:45 <mchua> Aaaaand we're closing (and moving back to #fedora-mktg) innnn...
21:10:45 <stickster> ;-)
21:10:46 <mchua> 5...
21:10:47 <mchua> 4...
21:10:49 <mchua> 3...
21:10:50 <mchua> 2...
21:10:52 <mchua> 1...
21:10:55 <mchua> 0.5...
21:11:06 <mchua> 0.5^n for n in 2..infty
21:11:08 <mchua> #endmeeting