17:22:15 <x3mboy> #startmeeting Fedora i3 SIG
17:22:15 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 19 17:22:15 2020 UTC.
17:22:15 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:22:15 <zodbot> The chair is x3mboy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:22:15 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:22:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_i3_sig'
17:22:43 <x3mboy> #meetingname i3-sig
17:22:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i3-sig'
17:22:52 <x3mboy> #topic Agenda
17:23:06 <x3mboy> #info (1) Roll call
17:23:09 <siddharthvipul> .hello siddharthvipul1
17:23:10 <zodbot> siddharthvipul: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>
17:23:20 <x3mboy> #info (2) Introduction
17:23:32 <x3mboy> #info (3) Ideas
17:23:41 <x3mboy> #info (4) Meeting times
17:23:48 <nasirhm> .hello nasirhm
17:23:48 <zodbot> nasirhm: nasirhm 'Nasir Hussain' <nasirhussainm14@gmail.com>
17:23:49 <x3mboy> #info (5) Open Floor
17:23:57 <x3mboy> #topic Roll call
17:24:00 * jwf waves
17:24:17 * siddharthvipul is here (in real roll call) :P
17:24:29 <x3mboy> LOL
17:24:31 <x3mboy> .hello2
17:24:32 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
17:24:52 <x3mboy> For some reason zodbot is not changing the topic on the meeting
17:24:57 <x3mboy> #chair nasirhm
17:24:57 <zodbot> Current chairs: nasirhm x3mboy
17:25:07 <x3mboy> #chair siddharthvipul
17:25:07 <zodbot> Current chairs: nasirhm siddharthvipul x3mboy
17:25:14 <x3mboy> #chair jwf
17:25:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: jwf nasirhm siddharthvipul x3mboy
17:25:41 <x3mboy> #topic Introduction
17:26:13 <jwf> Hi folks!
17:26:27 <siddharthvipul> howdy all, I am Vipul.. a member of Fedora Infrastructure team (also coming from CPE).. my primary responsibility is development and administration of CentOS and Fedora CI
17:26:28 <jwf> x3mboy++ Thanks for facilitating this
17:26:45 <siddharthvipul> about that's all in my intro :)
17:26:47 <x3mboy> Hello guys, some of you knows me, some of you not. My name is Eduard Lucena, I'm part of several teams, but more involved with Marketing, Mindshare, and I recently become aware than I vastly known as "The podcast host"
17:26:50 <nasirhm> jwf: Hey justin :wave:
17:26:56 <siddharthvipul> and yes, thank you x3mboy
17:27:33 <nasirhm> thank you x3mboy
17:27:50 <aegorenk> .hello aegorenk
17:27:51 <zodbot> aegorenk: aegorenk 'None' <aegorenk@redhat.com>
17:27:54 <jwf> #info Justin W. Flory (jflory7/jwf); Fedora Community contributor who helps where he can, user and fan of i3wm since 2017
17:28:33 <x3mboy> Something I feel a little weird regarding the i3 SIG is that a lot of people is saying thank you and I didn't do anything (yet...)
17:28:35 <x3mboy> :D
17:28:48 <jwf> x3mboy: Sometimes the first step is a big one :)
17:29:07 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy: starting an initiative is a very important step.. you know step 0
17:29:09 <x3mboy> #info Eduard Lucena (x3mboy, x3mlinux), Marketing team and Host of the Fedora Podcast
17:29:12 <nasirhm> heheh, Thanks for taking the first step, we will get it done :D
17:29:19 <x3mboy> Cool!
17:29:27 <x3mboy> Thanks to you for the enthusiasm
17:30:18 <jwf> x3mboy: Btw, I know why zodbot is not changing the channel topic… can follow-up with a fix after the meeting
17:30:34 <siddharthvipul> is it because it's not an op? jwf?
17:30:49 <x3mboy> jwf, Thanks
17:30:54 <x3mboy> Ok, let's continue
17:31:22 <jwf> zodbot needs the +t ChanServ flag. It is a quick fix but I don't want to go off-topic, it can wait until after :)
17:31:41 <siddharthvipul> +1
17:31:58 <elmiko> o/
17:32:10 * jwf waves to elmiko
17:32:21 <jwf> x3mboy: Where to next, captain? :)
17:32:36 <x3mboy> #topic Ideas
17:32:49 * nasirhm waves as elmiko
17:32:49 <x3mboy> Well, in first place I was thinking about a remix and then a Spin
17:33:15 <x3mboy> But I noticed that policies around remixes are loose, and it will be hard to goes from remix to spin
17:33:15 <siddharthvipul> I liked some ideas of making it on fedora-minimal with all i3 packages..
17:33:43 <aegorenk> siddharthvipul++
17:33:43 <zodbot> aegorenk: Karma for siddharthvipul1 changed to 17 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:34:12 <jwf> Hmmm… I feel like before we look at a Spin, we might want to define what the i3 collection in Fedora is today
17:34:47 <jwf> After seeing the #rit-tigeros folks work on a Fedora Remix, I see how much work goes into it. It is not easy and there is a lot of potential to lead to burnout if the work is huge :D
17:34:49 <jwf> I was thinking…
17:35:05 <jwf> Maybe a package group could be a first place to start, so we have a "recommended set" of i3 packages on Fedora?
17:35:07 <jwf> Sort of like:
17:35:12 <jwf> `sudo dnf install @i3wm`
17:35:18 <nasirhm> jwf +1 to it, Once we have the knowledge of what to include and what not to, We would be equipped with the Technical aspect and then move on to the policy part
17:35:23 <aegorenk> I think that would be a good idea to create a draft list of features we want to include
17:35:25 <jwf> Just like you can do `sudo dnf install @gnome`, I think
17:36:52 <jwf> And maybe there are also two different ways we could go to. Whether we want to package a vanilla upstream and focus on adding more packages, or offer some minor customization and tweaks specific to Fedora as a default i3wm desktop
17:36:53 <siddharthvipul> that's a nice start.. so hmm, coming from using i3+gnome, even in i3 I was using a lot of gnome softwares.. I know the idea won't exactly be to remove all of gnome but first we will have to think of all the software in @i3wm.. just as jwf suggested
17:37:32 <jwf> #idea Package group: Install a recommended base package set of i3wm packages in Fedora with `sudo dnf install @i3wm`, just like you would for GNOME or other package groups
17:37:51 <x3mboy> I'm working in a document, give me like 2 minutes
17:37:57 <jwf> #idea (siddharthvipul) Potential to branch out later with other groups, e.g. @i3wm+gnome
17:38:39 <jwf> Depending how much effort we want to put into this, we could also solicit a community survey about i3wm in Fedora to get feedback on what people would like out of i3 on Fedora
17:38:56 <jwf> Maybe that be helpful guidance while we are still really early on in ideation and planning
17:39:17 <jwf> We had that challenge with the Fedora D&I team for a long time, where outside feedback can really help guide in the beginning
17:39:21 * jwf is talking too much :)
17:39:29 <aegorenk> i3wm+gnome doesn't sound minimal
17:39:58 <siddharthvipul> aegorenk: yep, it's not.. I am coming from the idea of identifying all the packages that we will have in the group :)
17:40:00 <x3mboy> jwf, all ideas are welcome
17:40:10 <x3mboy> And that's the whole point of today's meeting
17:40:15 <nasirhm> aegorenk +1 although i do use some of the software of GNOME in i3 but would prefer to have lightweight alternatives if available.
17:40:20 <jwf> x3mboy: Just preferably not all mine :D
17:40:29 <jwf> Don't trust me, I am biased!! Look out!
17:40:32 <jwf> :P
17:43:20 <x3mboy> #link https://pagure.io/i3-sig/Fedora-i3-Spin/blob/master/f/Ideas.md
17:43:23 <nasirhm> I guess first having some survey from the fedora community can help us gain clarity over things like what packages they would like to see in the i3 remix, although by doing `dnf install i3` it installs all the basic necessities required by i3. further more if you need some like `i3-clock` you can do it
17:43:23 <x3mboy> Finally
17:43:27 <x3mboy> Sorry for the delay
17:44:18 <x3mboy> That document was worked by 2 folks from RH, and they shared with me
17:44:18 <siddharthvipul> I see some defaults and am making happy noises
17:44:21 <siddharthvipul> haha
17:44:31 <x3mboy> And I think it makes much sense
17:44:50 <x3mboy> Oh, md render from pagure is not the same
17:45:04 <x3mboy> 2nd level bullet points got lost
17:45:53 <siddharthvipul> for gui network manager, I have thoughts.. but no one should care.. I move nmtui and nmcli
17:46:49 <siddharthvipul> s/move/love
17:47:15 <aegorenk> What do you think about the following workflow idea. 0.Take a minimum server distribution and throw away packages that we don't want 1.Create a list of requirements 2.Check what satisfies these requirements in other spins 3.If it's provided by separate packages (not DE related) start to work on adoption (configuring, adding soft dependencies) 4.If it's provided by DE look for alternatives or
17:47:17 <aegorenk> think how to adopt that DE component
17:47:22 <nasirhm> I guess people are comfortable with `nmcli` when it comes to NetworkManager, although I've installed the applet thanks to jwf's swissknife configs
17:48:09 <x3mboy> aegorenk, +1
17:48:17 <siddharthvipul> this may not be the right topic to bring this up, but arandr please :>
17:48:36 <jwf> arandr++
17:48:36 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for arandr changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:48:37 <x3mboy> But I would modify that by taking the starter suggested by Southern_Gentlem
17:48:40 <siddharthvipul> and pulseaudio (I see there is a place holder for gui audio interface)
17:48:43 * jwf wants arandr in EPEL :'(
17:49:20 <x3mboy> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Livemedia-creator-_How_to_create_and_use_a_Live_CD
17:49:22 <siddharthvipul> jwf: hmm, I want to say I will request a branch and get it, but am afraid if I will have time.. but will see to it :)
17:49:29 <jwf> x3mboy: An aside about that doc which mentions the i3 Fedora Magazine article. Worth noting that is the most-read Fedora Magazine article of all-time, ever
17:49:54 <x3mboy> jwf, Really?
17:49:58 <nasirhm> aegorenk: +1, Someone in the Mailing list posted about it too, that first installing a netinst image and then installing i3 and other tools on it.
17:50:33 <jwf> aegorenk: I guess I feel lukewarm to a Spin. For me personally, I do not have a lot of time to contribute to that work. More enthusiasm and maybe taking on one or two packages, and helping with package review swaps
17:50:42 <x3mboy> What if we make a experiment, using the Everything Image and installing the "Base minimal"
17:50:51 <x3mboy> And from there build up the image?
17:51:10 <x3mboy> That way we can have a super minimal base, and from there a curated package list
17:51:14 <siddharthvipul> I am with jwf.. I am just worried that too much expectation might be setting us for failure.. maybe slowly build up to that?
17:51:17 <jwf> If someone or if multiple folks are really keen on leading that work, I think that is a good place to start… but after seeing how a Spin/Remix is made and how much work goes into composing the images, I am not really keen on doing all of that work :/
17:51:28 <x3mboy> That will have a supper little footprint (I think is that how is called)
17:51:35 <jwf> siddharthvipul: +1
17:52:28 <jwf> x3mboy: re, Fedora Magazine. It is true :-) At least, as of sometime in 2019 but it was such a big lead, I doubt it has changed
17:53:03 <x3mboy> #idea Install a base minimal, list packages that got installed
17:53:09 <jwf> #info Fedora Magazine i3wm intro article is the most-read article of all-time on Fedora Magazine (could be a good article to edit and keep up-to-date as i3wm work goes on)
17:54:01 <x3mboy> #idea Install i3 from there and list packages
17:54:08 <x3mboy> Wdyt?
17:54:27 <x3mboy> siddharthvipul,I will love arandr as well
17:54:41 <jwf> x3mboy: maybe start with a basic mock build of i3wm and see what it pulls in. Check to see other WM components and what i3wm packages are not installed by default. Then, look at bundling different sets of packages together into a package group?
17:55:00 <jwf> e.g. I love the xfce network applet, and even though it is not part of i3wm officially, it is a great widget for managing network access in i3
17:55:17 <jwf> It would be nice to install something that bundled useful things and configs like that together
17:55:51 <jwf> Or, arandr, case and point :)
17:56:37 <x3mboy> jwf, how do you do 2nd level bullet points in Pagure's Markdown?!?!?
17:57:24 <jwf> x3mboy: Indent by 4 whitespace exactly :)
17:59:43 <aegorenk> jwf: I see your point regarding time. I think after we will have a list of components you can just pick one when you have time and adopted it with pace comfortable for you. Only thing I'm not sure is how to share your work after you successfully configured that component.
18:00:17 * jwf nods
18:00:28 <jwf> aegorenk: Do you think a package group for an i3wm desktop would be a good place to start?
18:00:37 <siddharthvipul> fwiw, I am offering my help in packaging stuff (as long as it's not ruby)
18:00:39 <jwf> If I remember right, even some of the other spins started from package groups... I think...
18:00:44 <jwf> siddharthvipul: :D
18:02:52 <aegorenk> jwf: For me it looks like a perfect starting point. The only problem I never maintained package groups :) But I'm fine with studying.
18:03:07 <chandankumar> on packaging side, I can help
18:03:26 <jwf> aegorenk: Me either :-) Although, I think we have a lot of folks we can lean on to learn from
18:03:29 <jwf> chandankumar++
18:03:30 * nasirhm waves at chandankumar
18:03:31 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for chandankumar changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:03:42 <jwf> Oh, also I have some housekeeping things I'd like to do for the IRC channel and to bridge it over with Matrix/Riot. We could also get a TeleIRC bridge, but someone else has to create a Telegram bot and group because I'm maxed out on registrations for both: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/teleirc-sig/request-new-bot/
18:03:42 * chandankumar waves back
18:03:45 <nasirhm> chandankumar++
18:03:45 <zodbot> nasirhm: Karma for chandankumar changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:03:46 <siddharthvipul> chandankumar: hey hey hey, long time
18:03:58 <chandankumar> siddharthvipul, hello :-)
18:04:08 * chandankumar is currently running i3 on mate
18:04:13 <jwf> Oh, oops x3mboy dropped
18:04:50 <jwf> Is this meeting four minutes over or does it go for 26 more minutes? I lost track of time…
18:05:01 * jwf is also trying to write docs for work while in this meeting :)
18:05:51 * nasirhm is also working on some office stuff at the same time too.
18:05:53 <x3mboy> I'm back
18:05:55 <x3mboy> Sorry
18:05:57 <x3mboy> I have an internet hippcus
18:06:01 <x3mboy> What were we discussing?
18:06:25 * siddharthvipul is thinking to pass this as office work and hoping his manager buys it
18:06:29 <siddharthvipul> :V
18:06:41 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy: so far we have volunteers for packaging work
18:06:43 <x3mboy> :V
18:06:47 <x3mboy> Cool
18:06:56 <nasirhm> <x3mboy "What were we discussing?"> Packaging
18:06:58 <x3mboy> I can't volunteer for that, because I don't know how to do it
18:07:07 <siddharthvipul> we have an okayish list of packages that we would need, but will need more work and filteration there
18:07:16 <x3mboy> If someone guides me/sponsors me, I will be more then happy to help
18:08:02 <x3mboy> Sure, so please, can someone step up and update that file list to the wiki?
18:08:06 <aegorenk> One thing I'm worried about "packaging group approach" is a possible work overhead we can get. I mean it will be probably required to have that packaging group compatible with all existing spins since it will be available for everyone, so we will have more things to keep in mind.
18:08:12 <nasirhm> x3mboy: I'm also on a similar point too.
18:08:32 <nasirhm> aegorenk++
18:08:32 <zodbot> nasirhm: Karma for aegorenk changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:08:46 <x3mboy> aegorenk, I understand
18:09:24 <x3mboy> Well, TBH my concern is Wayland, because of Fedora Workstation
18:09:41 <x3mboy> I'm not sure how i3 goes with XWayland
18:09:45 <siddharthvipul> oh right! that!
18:09:47 <x3mboy> It's something we need to try
18:10:04 <chandankumar> we have other spins which is based on x11 like xfce or lxde they will be continued na ?
18:10:06 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy: it works... at least for me.. but that's where sway is supposed to be the thing
18:10:10 <jwf> Is x11 getting dropped from Fedora?
18:10:36 <siddharthvipul> jwf: not that I know.. can ask around
18:10:44 <jwf> I hope not O.O
18:10:53 <x3mboy> That means that "dnf install @i3wm" needs to choose between X11 and XWayland, and I'm not sure how to do that
18:10:58 <jwf> I'm not ready for Sway yet
18:11:21 <x3mboy> That's why I was thinking about my script
18:11:26 <nasirhm> jwf: i feel the same way too and would like to stick with i3 for some more time
18:12:20 <x3mboy> I've installed Basic Minimal and from there I installed i3 i3-lock lightdm and firefox
18:12:36 <siddharthvipul> I tried sway a couple of years ago, it didn't work perfectly for me, I didn't bother checking or fixing. so I am just lazy to try it out again
18:13:48 <nasirhm> x3mboy: i'm thinking to do the same on my laptop. The GNOME thing has made it complicated yesterday, i by mistakenly deleted some x11 package resulting in no GUI :'(
18:16:27 <aegorenk> x3mboy: I suggest it will take much more packages to provide full featured laptop OS
18:16:42 <nasirhm> I guess this meeting is going on longer than expected or is it closed (nasirhm's network isn't stable)
18:19:12 <aegorenk> Can we start with having some shared document(s) where we can start list features we want to have and possible providers for that features? I'm new to the comunity so I don't know if we have resources like that.
18:19:43 <siddharthvipul> aegorenk: we can start here in issues for now if you wish https://pagure.io/i3-sig/Fedora-i3-Spin/blob/master/f/Ideas.md
18:20:49 <x3mboy> So. next move?
18:21:25 <nasirhm> Listing Minimal Packages ?
18:21:30 <siddharthvipul> I think call for packagers + marketing is the first move.. we can have a group and keep adding things there
18:21:30 <x3mboy> +1
18:21:34 <chandankumar> +1
18:21:44 <x3mboy> Half of marketing is here
18:21:47 <x3mboy> :D
18:22:11 <siddharthvipul> right! I mean that after listing packages needed (i am sure there would be disagreement in packages needed XD)
18:22:12 <x3mboy> siddharthvipul, What kind of group you need?
18:22:21 <siddharthvipul> I meant to say @i3wm
18:22:43 <siddharthvipul> group install kinda group
18:23:05 <chandankumar> siddharthvipul, it is going to be a mdoule we can use copr for that initially
18:23:10 <x3mboy> siddharthvipul, Got it
18:23:25 <x3mboy> For that we need the minimal package list
18:23:41 <x3mboy> #agree create a minimal package list
18:23:57 <x3mboy> nasirhm, Is ok if I action you to write the list in the wiki?
18:24:22 <nasirhm> x3mboy: Let's open a ticket in the Pagure issue tracker where we all can asynchronously share the list
18:25:01 <nasirhm> I'm up for tasks regarding to marketing, writing, etc. Feel free to assign it to me @x3mboy
18:25:07 <x3mboy> Better
18:25:48 <x3mboy> #action x3mboy create a ticket in pagure to list the minimal Packages we need
18:26:36 <x3mboy> #action nasirhm to take pagure issue #1
18:26:37 <x3mboy> :D
18:26:48 <x3mboy> Ok, let's move we are overtimed
18:27:05 <x3mboy> #topic Meeting times
18:27:11 <aegorenk> I'm a tech guy. I can help with rpm packaging or some patchs if needed and I don't mind to get familiar with KS or package group creation
18:27:35 <x3mboy> aegorenk, cool!
18:27:36 <x3mboy> Thanks
18:27:42 <x3mboy> Also, can you teach me?
18:28:06 <x3mboy> I think this is a great meeting time, but I think a whenisgood is a great option
18:28:38 <nasirhm> x3mboy++ for setting up this meeting :D
18:29:23 <x3mboy> #action x3mboy will create a whenisgood to ask for the best meeting time
18:29:54 <x3mboy> I'm not going to make several iterations of that, just one and if there is a tie, I will pick one randomly
18:29:59 <x3mboy> wdyt?
18:31:15 <aegorenk> x3mboy: Sure, I can help with stuff that I know. Just be aware that I was a Java developer for 6 years and started with C/C++/Linux just three months ago :D
18:32:34 <x3mboy> aegorenk, I'm a sysdamin with bash script and ansible experience, I think we can compliment each other
18:32:54 <x3mboy> Ok, move to open floor
18:32:59 <x3mboy> #topic Open Floor
18:33:17 <x3mboy> I want to thank all of you and some that aren't here for the support
18:33:34 <x3mboy> It looks like a lot of people wanted an i3 spin, hopefully we can make it happen
18:33:50 <x3mboy> Also, it was a cross list email with Sway SIG
18:33:50 <aegorenk> x3mboy: sure, that's sounds promising
18:33:53 <nasirhm> Thank you x3mboy for starting the SiG
18:34:32 <aegorenk> x3mboy++ thanks for leading this
18:34:32 <zodbot> aegorenk: Karma for x3mboy changed to 10 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:36:16 * nasirhm needs to attend another meeting in next 4 mins
18:39:17 <nasirhm> x3mboy: I think we're good to close ??
18:39:49 <x3mboy> Sure
18:39:54 <x3mboy> #endmeeting