flock2016
LOGS
07:00:05 <jflory7> #startmeeting State of Fedora, Flock 2016 Edition - Speaker: Matthew Miller (mattdm)
07:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  2 07:00:05 2016 UTC.  The chair is jflory7. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'state_of_fedora,_flock_2016_edition_-_speaker:_matthew_miller_(mattdm)'
07:00:13 <jflory7> #meetingname flock2016
07:00:13 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'flock2016'
07:00:19 <jflory7> #topic Welcome, Introductions
07:01:32 <jflory7> nirik: Could you give zodbot temp. OP?
07:01:41 <nirik> yep
07:01:49 <jflory7> bexelbie++
07:01:49 <zodbot> jflory7: Karma for bex changed to 2 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:01:58 <nirik> bexelbie++
07:01:58 <zodbot> nirik: Karma for bex changed to 3 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:02:01 <jflory7> nirik++ Great, thanks :)
07:02:26 <jflory7> jmad++
07:02:27 <zodbot> jflory7: Karma for jmad changed to 1 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:02:32 <jflory7> rsuelhe++ spot++
07:03:18 <jflory7> mleonova++ mshakshober++ mizmo++
07:03:19 <zodbot> jflory7: Karma for mleonova changed to 1 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:03:28 <jflory7> ryanlerch++
07:03:59 <jflory7> #info Housekeeping notes: Refer to schedule online or on the wall for most current changes, some talks in the brochure are not correct
07:04:15 <jflory7> #info Get your Flock 2016 badge! Scan the QR code and/or link in the booklet
07:04:24 <jflory7> #info Please remember and follow the Fedora CoC
07:04:41 <jflory7> #link https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct
07:04:59 <jflory7> #info Tonight, for the walking tour, be on time!! We will leave by 6:50pm UTC+1
07:05:15 <jflory7> #info Tonight, games night will also be happening
07:05:45 <jflory7> #info Important contact info is in the Flock booklet! Keep it on hand for if you need it.
07:05:51 <jflory7> #info === Social Media ===
07:06:11 <jflory7> #info Spend some time shouting out about Flock, make some noise, raise the roof, spread the word!
07:06:19 <jflory7> #info Official hashtag is #FlockToFedora
07:06:26 <jflory7> jzb++
07:07:09 <jflory7> #topic Introduction
07:07:19 <jflory7> Welcome to the ongoing State of Fedora talk, 2016 edition!
07:07:57 <jflory7> Some quotes from some press releases for recent releases of Fedora
07:08:06 <jflory7> Phoronix and The Register
07:08:30 <jflory7> #info Note about statistics: Numbers generated using Fedora download and update server connections
07:08:51 <jflory7> #info In the interest of user privacy, but comes with caveat of potential inaccuracies
07:09:25 <jflory7> Some information, like changing IP addresses can affect the accuracy of the activity of a single user or multiple users
07:09:27 <jflory7> e.g. a NAT
07:09:29 <jflory7> So be warned!
07:09:32 <jflory7> dinosaur.jpg
07:09:47 <jflory7> #topic Fedora Update Server Connections (Daily by IP)
07:10:07 <jflory7> #info Continued upward trend over the past five releases
07:10:35 <jflory7> #topic Installer Downloads per Week
07:10:53 <jflory7> #info Looking at weekly downloads for the downloads on getfedora.org
07:11:03 <jflory7> Insightful for popularity of release at start
07:11:29 <jflory7> General uptick right around the launch of each release
07:12:02 <jflory7> #info What about the downward trends toward the end of a release? Perhaps associated with the improved methods of upgrading
07:12:15 <jflory7> #topicx Edition + Spin Downloads as Percent of Total over Time
07:12:18 <jflory7> #topic Edition + Spin Downloads as Percent of Total over Time
07:12:28 <jflory7> #info Workstation around 75% of downloads
07:12:39 <jflory7> Ends in Jan. 2016, has not been updated yet
07:13:05 <jflory7> #info Workstation network installer was not always tracked for downloads, but had fair popularity discovered when we were tracking that
07:13:30 <jflory7> #info Q: Netinstaller taking a bite from server downloads? Why?
07:14:02 <jflory7> #info A: Not a good answer for this, but seems there might have been some overlap with people using Server for different applications. Statistics available make it hard to determine an answer
07:15:16 <jflory7> #info Popular ISP is using Fedora Atomic in some prod. environments (based on discussions at RH Summit 2016), so these numbers may not be the most accurate representation (that might be the most popular version of Fedora... ever??)
07:15:24 <jflory7> #info === Adding in the spins ===
07:16:12 <jflory7> #topic Brief diversion into external numbers
07:16:50 <jflory7> #info StackOverflow has an annual survey and asked about preferred operating system environment. Windows 52.1%, OS X 26.2%, Linix 21.7%
07:17:09 <jflory7> #info Breakdown of Linux flavors: Top 4, Fedora at 1.3%
07:17:12 <jflory7> Not a huge surprise
07:17:25 <jflory7> Fedfora has reputation of being fast-moving and sometimes difficult to use
07:17:31 <jflory7> Up a little bit from last year
07:17:44 <jflory7> Means we have some work to do in marketing for growing in software developer space
07:17:53 <jflory7> Doesn't mean competition with other distros necessarily
07:18:02 <jflory7> Would like to see number going up over time
07:18:41 <jflory7> #topic Fedora Project is more than just an operating system (so here's some more numbers)
07:18:52 <jflory7> #info Q: How big is the Fedora contributor community?
07:19:11 <jflory7> #info We have a message bus, fedmsg, which generates activity and can be responded to by people or applications
07:19:34 <jflory7> #info Looked at for generating information about our community. Many, many, many numbers made!
07:19:43 <jflory7> #info 2000+ contributors with at least some activity
07:19:51 <jflory7> #info 800 users active in at least two areas
07:20:00 <jflory7> #info 300 users active in all three counted activities
07:20:10 <jflory7> #info Counted activities: Bodhi, dist-git, wiki
07:20:34 <jflory7> Interesting about non-overlap vs. overlap
07:20:45 <jflory7> Various translations not counted here, Ambassador advocacy activities
07:20:50 <jflory7> These numbers are from the easily tracked areas
07:20:57 <jflory7> This is done on an annual basis
07:21:07 <jflory7> Numbers will be updated at Devconf too, so will be interestying to see how it progresses
07:21:12 <jflory7> Zanata recently was on fedmsg
07:21:23 <jflory7> Could be useful for measutring activity and growth in that side of the project over time
07:21:45 <jflory7> #info Q: Does everyone work for Red Hat?
07:22:12 <jflory7> #info A: Contributors with @redhat.com address 26%, Red Hatters sneakily using other domains 9%, everyone else 65%
07:22:26 <jflory7> Difficult to portray this graphic info over text, heheh
07:22:58 <jflory7> #info These numbers generated manually at times, a lot of the 9% were contributors who started contributing outside of Red Hat and came along later
07:23:20 <jflory7> #topic Number of contributors providing feedback on package updates each week
07:23:34 <jflory7> #info Grouped quarterly activity level of each contributor
07:24:27 <jflory7> #info People responsible for the top percentage of fedmsg hits do about 20% of the work, roughly
07:24:43 <jflory7> #info Next 10% do about 2/3 of the work
07:24:58 <jflory7> #undo
07:24:58 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by jflory7 at 07:24:43 : Next 10% do about 2/3 of the work
07:25:05 <jflory7> #info Top 10% cumulatively do about 2/3 of the work
07:25:42 <jflory7> #info Inaccuracy of dataset: there is a user used for mass rebuilds of packaged, which explains massive skew at some points
07:25:44 <bexelbie> jflory7++ on minutes
07:25:45 <zodbot> bexelbie: Karma for jflory7 changed to 32 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:26:21 <jflory7> #info Casual contributors usually drop off steeply around Christmastime or so
07:26:46 <jflory7> #topic General observations / stats
07:26:57 <jflory7> #info === Percent of update feedback each week by time since packager's first action ===
07:27:16 <jflory7> #info Constant influx of new people with Bodhi feedback, but large majority is done by people who have been around for a user
07:27:27 <jflory7> releng user caused massive spike when it was created. ;)
07:28:18 <jflory7> puiterwijk++ puiterwijk++ puiterwijk++
07:28:21 <jflory7> basset++
07:28:31 <jflory7> #info === Spam edits per week ===
07:29:05 <jflory7> #info We've been under heavy attacks by spammers in recent months, impeded some progress in places like higher restrictions on wiki edits, but puiterwijk / basset have helped keep this activity to a minimum
07:29:18 <jflory7> #info === Fedora Magazine page views per month ===
07:29:27 <jflory7> #info Nice upward trend over time
07:29:31 <jflory7> #info Fedora releases are peaks in the data
07:29:40 <jflory7> #info Lot of growth in content and types of articles available
07:29:50 <jflory7> #topic Big Goals for 2016
07:30:38 <jflory7> #info mattdm: "I do not set the goals for Fedora - as Fedora leadership and Council, try to discern collective goals of everyone in this room and those who could not be here today in the community"
07:30:55 <jflory7> #info Lots of the talks are helping show that and not just ideas I'm pulling out of my head, but ideas we're working on together
07:31:03 <jflory7> Release train keeps on rollin'
07:31:12 <jflory7> fedora_express.png
07:31:31 <jflory7> #info If a release is short or long, we're trying to keep / stick to it
07:31:46 <jflory7> F24 is a little rushed and the consequences of doing that, will see how this works out
07:31:59 <jflory7> Basic features for this release and the release process
07:32:15 <jflory7> dgilmore with his talk on release product and threebean on Factory 2.0 with upgrading the release process
07:32:27 <jflory7> #info === Modularity ===
07:32:55 <jflory7> #info Started at Flock years ago about "Fedora rings"
07:33:17 <jflory7> #info Changing how the distribution is put together in the future, thinking of Legos
07:33:40 <jflory7> #info Things in reality and not just concepts, a lot of the work langdon has been helping lead with in recent months
07:33:53 <jflory7> #info Creating Fedora modules, similar to packages
07:34:27 <jflory7> #info === University outreach ===
07:34:43 <jflory7> #info Bringing new people and developers into the flock
07:34:48 <jflory7> #info === Fedora Loves Python ===
07:35:20 <jflory7> #info New marketing initiative to not focus on "developers" and being broad, focusing on smaller bit and building on existing positive relationships could be useful to help focus and target our efforts
07:35:35 <jflory7> #info Ongoing efforts to attract Python developers to the distribution and community
07:35:50 <jflory7> Not to mention our super snazzy Infra built off of a lot of Python already ;)
07:36:21 <jflory7> Q: Note that .NET is open source now, Microsoft, from engineering level is looking at getting involved some too
07:36:27 <jflory7> From RH Summit 2016
07:36:32 <jflory7> #info === Fedora Hubs ===
07:36:45 <jflory7> #info Core of activity is on Hubs and mailing list, but often completely invisible to people on the outside world
07:36:49 <jflory7> IRC is a culture
07:36:58 <jflory7> Figuring out nickserv, registering, persistence
07:37:07 <jflory7> People don't always want to subscribe to lists anymore
07:37:14 <jflory7> Our comm. tools are at times barriers at entry
07:37:24 <jflory7> Event though we have thousands of IRC meetings a year
07:37:33 <jflory7> Easy to dismiss Fedora as a project when that info is not visible
07:37:35 <jflory7> INTRODUCING HUBS
07:37:55 <jflory7> #info Hubs will help make Fedora contributions and activity visible to Internet and making our contributions public
07:38:01 <jflory7> #topic === Fedora Atomic ===
07:38:09 <jflory7> #link https://projectatomic.io
07:38:32 <jflory7> #info Containerized bits of operating system is likely future of the operating system across editions
07:39:07 <jflory7> #info Lots of bleeding edge tech in Atomic and experimenting with crazy ideas - we like to play with leading edge (see: Foundations, Features/First)
07:39:23 <jflory7> #info Looking at OpenShift: not just a container system, but a host cluster system
07:39:33 <migi> jflory7 chrome is complaining about cert
07:39:43 <jflory7> migi: I guessed on HTTPS :/
07:39:45 <jflory7> Try http
07:40:12 <jflory7> #info === Flatpak ===
07:40:18 <migi> Sure works just not pleasant to see cert err
07:40:40 <jflory7> #info Similar technology, method for distributing desktop apps, trust they won't take over system, install once install anywhere
07:40:58 <jflory7> #info Talk about future of Fedora Workstation which will likely introduce Flatpak
07:41:12 <jflory7> #info Ongoing Council discussion about people outside of Fedora creating Flatpaks for Fedora users
07:41:25 <jflory7> #topic So, questions?
07:41:52 <jflory7> #info Special shout-out to Stephen Smoogen (smooge) and Ralph Bean (threebean)for helping generate statistic
07:42:10 <jflory7> #info Thanks to all those helping with each release, Fedora would not be the awesome community without all of you
07:42:18 <jflory7> smooge++ threebean++
07:42:18 <zodbot> jflory7: Karma for smooge changed to 7 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:42:30 <jflory7> #help We need help transcribing IRC meetings, like this!
07:42:51 <jflory7> Anyone catch that link?
07:42:57 <jflory7> I missed it, trying to add it in minutes
07:43:03 <jflory7> jzb: ^
07:43:19 <jflory7> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flock/Volunteers2016
07:43:45 <jflory7> #info Q: "Do you have any stats on packages that make it to stable from Bodhi? I think that would be interesting"
07:43:50 <nirik> /bit.ly/flock16help
07:43:57 <nirik> http//bit.ly/flock16help
07:44:00 <jflory7> nirik++
07:44:18 <jflory7> #info A: Likely available, not generated at time of presentation - "things to work on slides"
07:44:33 <puiterwijk> http://bit.ly/flock16help
07:44:39 <jflory7> #info Q: "Do we have any statistics on whether or not the University Involvement Initiative has impacted growth in the project?"
07:44:43 <nirik> yeah, sorry.
07:45:13 <jflory7> #info A: No hard data available, Fedora Women's Day which was successful fits along with improving diversity efforts. There is a large survey being worked on for contributor community to best understand our community as well.
07:46:07 <jflory7> #info Q: "Do you have any stats on how people are using Fedora as compared to other stats in the presentation?"
07:46:26 <jibecfed> jflory7: can you ask about statistics of Fedora Usage in the world ? Per continent, per country or locale ?
07:46:41 <jflory7> #info A: No, not available (see: privacy concerns), but still able to discern patterns from downloads and upgrade activity
07:46:42 <jibecfed> do data exists ?
07:46:48 <jflory7> jibecfed: Can do
07:47:08 <jibecfed> users
07:47:29 <jflory7> #info Q: Activity regarding contributor and user activity in the project
07:47:35 <jibecfed> but contributor is interesting also
07:48:14 <jibecfed> jflory7++
07:48:14 <zodbot> jibecfed: Karma for jflory7 changed to 33 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:48:26 <jflory7> #info A: For community, we have field in FAS account to understand where our contributors come from (available but not measured at this time), some regional data for users can be discernable but difficult to measure due to regional issues, e.g. connection speeds and strength affecting number of connections
07:48:38 <jflory7> #info Q: "Is the information on fedmsg a major privacy threat with how public it is?"
07:49:36 <jflory7> #info A: Reasons for not more invasive data is being careful about privacy, data is very valuable for understanding our project but also privacy is a major concern too - this is an ongoing discussion in the Council
07:49:40 <jflory7> #topic Conclusion
07:49:52 <jflory7> #info Thanks for being here everyone and have a great Flock!
07:50:48 <jflory7> #help SPEAKERS: Note, there are laptops available for the sole purpose of recording your talks! Make sure you're recording a video and start AND stop your talks when recording! Try testing before your talk! We want to upload all talks to YouTube post-Flock, so make sure you get your talk recorded for our remote contributors and interested users!
07:50:58 <jflory7> fale++
07:51:09 <jflory7> #endmeeting