11:33:02 <jflory7> #startmeeting Fedora Hubs Meetup / Hackfest - Speaker: Pierre-Yves Chibon (pingou)
11:33:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Aug  5 11:33:02 2016 UTC.  The chair is jflory7. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:33:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
11:33:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_hubs_meetup_/_hackfest_-_speaker:_pierre-yves_chibon_(pingou)'
11:33:05 <jflory7> #meetingname flock2016
11:33:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'flock2016'
11:33:16 <jflory7> #topic Getting ready / Introduction
11:33:41 * jflory7 wonders if it would be helpful for mizmo to be patched in via Google Hangouts if she is free
11:34:43 <mizmo> yeh
11:34:47 <mizmo> im up for it
11:35:03 <mizmo> um altho no video on the screen, i just woke up 30 min ago o_O
11:37:16 <jflory7> No worries :)
11:37:32 <jflory7> mizmo: We're probably going to be another 10 minutes or so, still getting set up / people coming in
11:37:36 <jflory7> Lunch just wrapped up
11:37:41 <mizmo> kk
11:40:48 <jflory7> #chair stickster mizmo
11:40:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: jflory7 mizmo stickster
11:41:27 <stickster> Should I be starting a G+ Hangout for some video support?
11:41:54 <stickster> Or maybe just audio makes more sense, I might be blocking the laptop camera ;-)
11:42:51 <mizmo> stickster, can you do a just audio one?
11:42:59 <stickster> will try
11:48:23 <skrzepto> +1 on audio
11:48:35 <jflory7> skrzepto: mizmo may be able to patch in? not sure
11:48:42 <jflory7> #topic What is Hubs?
11:48:53 <jflory7> #info Using fedmsg to capture all sorts of activities and information in Fedora
11:49:09 <jflory7> If someone builds a package or generates a message or starts a meeting, it all generates a message.
11:49:32 <jflory7> We've had the messaging bus for years now and we've learned a lot from all of this
11:50:19 <jflory7> #info Messages that cross over the bus all involve contributor activity - 1 thing with a problem (like other projects) is no easy way to connect people with teams that are of interest to them and resources they need to interact with these teams
11:51:15 <jflory7> #info Systems we use to talk to contributors has their challenges: IRC is challenging but it's not something most people in the world are familiar with, have to get client, join channel, register with NickServ, etc. (same thing can go for mailing lists)
11:51:52 <jflory7> #info Fedora Hubs brings together many systems that we use for communication and coordination and into a web-based view that quickly connects people to teams with people in there and what's happening in there (lowers the learning barrier)
11:52:12 <jflory7> #info Use a widget to follow a discussion and writing a reply, monitor discussion, etc.
11:52:50 <jflory7> #info Because we have fedmsg, we don't need to vent new channels and new activities that creates Balkanization problem of new vs. old contributors
11:53:12 <jflory7> #idea Opening new views into existing systems
11:53:24 <jflory7> #info Hubs is designed to not just be one arrangement, each team can have its own hub
11:53:33 <jflory7> Each hub can be configured to show the things that are of most interest to your team
11:53:41 <jflory7> We're still creating these widgets to give these tools to the users
11:53:48 <jflory7> Part of the work is framework to allow users to configure these on demand
11:53:50 <mizmo> the general model of just another interface on a preexisting tool is similar to hyperkitty
11:54:30 <jflory7> #topic What do we want to do?
11:54:32 <mizmo> and we can design new hubs specific to a given team / project's context based on their needs rather than having to shoehorn them into something too generic to be useful
11:55:05 <jflory7> < pingou takes the floor >
11:55:10 <mizmo> i dont know if this is too low level, but atelic, skrzepto and i found a really really weird bug yesterday and having a hard time tracking it
11:55:22 <mizmo> (if we're jumping in to hacking)
11:55:35 <mizmo> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/243
11:55:43 <jflory7> mizmo: I think they're about to jump into planning
11:55:47 <mizmo> ah ok
11:56:10 <jflory7> skrzepto: There is a Hangouts on Air, stickster says he invited you.
11:57:16 <stickster> Let me see if I can find a URL to post
11:57:37 <mizmo> stickster, https://plus.google.com/events/cmvskl2r3ddc4t6gg21jvdqs2qo
11:57:52 <jflory7> < technical difficulties with projector >
11:57:56 <jflory7> < standby > :P
11:57:57 <stickster> Thanks mizmo !
11:58:01 <skrzepto> that works :)
12:00:25 <jflory7> #chair ryanlerch lmacken sayan
12:00:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: jflory7 lmacken mizmo ryanlerch sayan stickster
12:01:43 * stickster is sick and apologizes if the coughing or nose blowing noise is loud :-(
12:03:03 <jflory7> #link https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org
12:04:47 <mizmo> who is the whisperer!
12:05:19 <jflory7> I think pingou - he's getting logged in and adjusting resolution.
12:05:27 <mizmo> hehe
12:06:22 <jflory7> We're looking at skrzepto's page
12:06:28 <skrzepto> :)
12:06:29 <jflory7> I can't get a working link to his page, though
12:06:38 <skrzepto> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/skrzepto/
12:06:58 <jflory7> skrzepto++
12:07:17 <skrzepto> if the feed is not loading its bc hubs is serving https and my sse backend is http :(
12:07:40 <skrzepto> also messages are stored 24hrs which is why we see messages 5hrs from now
12:07:59 <jflory7> Oh, I'm getting 500 server errors now
12:08:23 <skrzepto> jflory7, your right same :(
12:09:01 <jflory7> Q: "Where are the messages on skrzepto's feed coming from" - ryanlerch
12:09:32 * mizmo can't view live feed from here
12:09:34 <jflory7> A: fedmsg, you set your filters with FMN and run it, fedmsg might be catching up since 2 hours ago
12:10:00 <jflory7> mizmo: I think the host for the dev instance might have gone down?
12:10:14 <mizmo> ah ok
12:10:27 <jflory7> Not sure...
12:10:28 <skrzepto> mizmo, hubs is https and sse is http so there's a hack to allow it
12:10:44 <jflory7> #topic === Widgets ===
12:10:48 <skrzepto> but it will complain that sse isn't https
12:10:49 <jflory7> Err
12:10:50 <jflory7> #undo
12:10:50 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x14e20f10>
12:10:54 <jflory7> #info === Widgets ===
12:11:26 <jflory7> Once you have your Hubs running, you can configure widgets
12:11:34 <jflory7> Widgets configured individually
12:12:05 <jflory7> pingou might have a special instance, he is launching through all of Hubs
12:12:09 * jflory7 can't pull up the page
12:12:44 <jflory7> #info Adding widget to hub: View your Hub in edit mode, choose your widget, add it, and configure it on the prompt right after
12:12:48 <jflory7> Looking at the sticky widget
12:12:52 <jflory7> Like a notepad
12:12:58 <jflory7> < adds >
12:13:13 <jflory7> Sticky note present
12:13:18 <jflory7> But not nice to have it as first widget
12:13:21 <jflory7> So drag-n-drop
12:13:24 <jflory7> "Whoooo!" - threebean
12:13:32 <jflory7> And adjust the order
12:13:56 <jflory7> Can actually do it directly in configuration of widget to edit it
12:14:00 <jflory7> < edits text >
12:14:03 <jflory7> Back to edit mode in Hubs
12:14:10 <jflory7> After saving sticky mode in individual editing mode
12:14:16 <jflory7> One Python file for the logic
12:14:27 <jflory7> fedmsg consumer on backend
12:14:36 <jflory7> [ ... ]
12:14:47 <jflory7> Missed some details
12:14:48 <jflory7> Looking at Meetings widget
12:15:02 <jflory7> Choose the calendar you want to follow
12:15:04 <jflory7> Directly from Fedocal
12:15:11 <jflory7> It auto-completes with a dropdown
12:15:16 <jflory7> How many meetings do you want in your Hub?
12:15:19 <jflory7> You can decide.
12:15:50 <jflory7> Cache was refreshed, no Fedora releases coming yet, so the calendar is empty...
12:16:04 <jflory7> #info Requesting a new meeting in Hubs creates a new meeting in Fedocal
12:16:41 <mizmo> the audio died :(
12:16:47 <skrzepto> +1
12:16:50 <jflory7> mizmo: stickster is fixing
12:16:50 <skrzepto> echo
12:17:01 <stickster> argh
12:17:05 <jflory7> *?
12:17:10 <stickster> Is it back?
12:17:37 <jflory7> #info pkgdb: Seeing packages ready to be pushed to stable and other similar details in widgets
12:17:44 <jflory7> #info Badges: View all of your badges
12:17:52 <stickster> mizmo: back?
12:17:57 <jflory7> #info Pagure: Newest open pull requests on Pagure tagged with fedora-infra tag
12:18:03 <mizmo> yep : )
12:18:14 <skrzepto> still little echo
12:18:29 <jflory7> #info Can also interact with GitHub and Bugzilla (other widgets coming from outside sources)
12:19:39 <jflory7> #idea Avoiding silo of communications: Sticky note is maybe not a good idea because then it isolates those *not* using Hubs, so there could be separation of information that someone may miss if they are not on Hubs
12:20:13 <jflory7> #idea WhenIsGood widget, but need to take caution on communication silos where it could separate the contributors who are and are not using Hubs
12:20:26 <jflory7> #info === Hubs groups ===
12:20:29 <jflory7> Looking at infra-sig group
12:20:36 <jflory7> And now packager group
12:20:43 <jflory7> Sticky note and about pages
12:20:50 <jflory7> s/pages/widgets
12:20:52 <jflory7> Viewing all group owners
12:20:58 <jflory7> Should you want to see them all
12:21:02 <jflory7> All are work in progress
12:21:09 <jflory7> Designs Hubs up next!
12:21:37 <mizmo> designteam
12:21:40 <mizmo> nope
12:21:45 <mizmo> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/designteam/
12:22:11 <jflory7> mizmo++
12:22:19 <jflory7> pingou demoing the "all groups" feature
12:22:27 <jflory7> On the way to designteam hub, heheh
12:22:54 <jflory7> #link https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/groups
12:23:01 <jflory7> < now in designteam hub >
12:23:11 <jflory7> Subscribing to the Design Teams hub
12:23:18 <jflory7> Or not, heh
12:23:54 <jflory7> #info Able to have community rules and guidelines in a group hub, as well as meetings for schedule and past meeting minutes all from the main team widget
12:24:01 <jflory7> Meetings widget is also present
12:24:09 <jflory7> And an About widget you can configure
12:24:12 <jflory7> Still lots of things to do
12:24:15 <jflory7> No check to log in or not
12:24:27 <jflory7> I'm able to able to edit all of the widgets even though I'm not supposed to
12:24:29 <jflory7> Not done yet
12:24:33 <jflory7> Just makes development easier
12:25:29 <jflory7> #help Need more help on widgets, designing the hubs themselves for groups - design team has good representation with ryanlerch and mizmo, but we need more input and involvement with other groups and teams
12:25:49 <jflory7> #help Packager needs help and input since it's a large group
12:25:55 <jflory7> Zanata folks here with us
12:25:59 <jflory7> Adding webhooks to Zanata itself
12:26:03 <jflory7> fedmsg2zanata
12:26:07 <jflory7> Err, flip that
12:26:16 <jflory7> #link https://github.com/fedora-infra/zanata2fedmsg
12:26:30 <jflory7> The experience we want to show here
12:26:35 <jflory7> IRC integration!
12:27:21 <jflory7> #info IRC widget in progress which allows you to view design team channel (a la Facebook Messenger style) on IRC, you can live chat with the folks you can see on the hub
12:27:57 <jflory7> Easy, direct connection to the people doing that
12:28:11 <jflory7> s/that/working on teams
12:28:41 <jflory7> "It's coming to Hubs soon. Tomorrow? ...the day after tomorrow? ...the day after that?" - pingou
12:30:32 <jflory7> < looking at skrzepto's hub again >
12:30:37 <jflory7> < looking at feed >
12:30:48 <jflory7> #info Q: "My personal hub... will people be able to see that?"
12:31:28 <jflory7> #info A: Yes, but plan to get private and public side, e.g. your live feed, library widget, things from FAS
12:31:31 <mizmo> there is a personal stream (not personal profile hub) and atelic has a work in progress running on his system but i think its not on the dev server right now
12:31:50 <mizmo> and you can save stuff from your incoming stream that you like for later reference
12:31:52 <jflory7> Example being time zone, ("oh it's 4am for ryanlerch, maybe not good time to contact"), as helpful feature
12:31:59 <skrzepto> mizmo, yea its PR
12:32:28 <jflory7> #info Personal stream in development for saving things from your incoming stream for later reference
12:32:37 <mizmo> (you can also tell from a person's live feed if they're active and doing stuff in fedora right now)
12:32:48 <jflory7> #info === History of project ===
12:32:57 <jflory7> Started with Design Team, mizmo, and threebean
12:33:07 <jflory7> Passed to pingou, passed to Simon now
12:33:29 <jflory7> s/Simon/sayan
12:33:37 <jflory7> sayan++
12:33:54 <jflory7> #info New Hubs superhero will be sayan for leading the project forward
12:33:55 <mizmo> did pingou pass to sayan? or is it passed to pingou + sayan
12:34:03 <mizmo> oh ok
12:34:13 <jflory7> I think to sayan, pingou will still be around and involved, but not as much
12:34:46 <mizmo> there are a bunch of unassigned design tix https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=needsmockup
12:35:47 <jflory7> #help We need some assistance with the IRC widget with user use case, we're working with developers to developers - mockups would be helpful
12:35:48 <jflory7> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=needsmockup
12:35:50 <mizmo> im happy to mentor anyone wanting to pick up a design ticket
12:35:59 <jflory7> mizmo++
12:36:02 <mizmo> user use case in irc?
12:36:20 * mizmo notes theres a lot of mockups for irc so interested in any holes / confusion there
12:36:26 <jflory7> mizmo: I think so, that was what I interpreted, from someone who's not an active dev / familiar with IRC already
12:41:05 <mizmo> so whats going on now
12:41:45 <skrzepto> mizmo, i think they are working on hubs now
12:41:49 <mizmo> ok
12:42:04 <mizmo> heres my pet bug https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/243
12:42:04 <jflory7> Oops, was in wrong channel for a second...
12:42:17 <mizmo> this one is.... one very odd bird, ideas welcome
12:42:18 <jflory7> #info === So what do we want to do moving forward? ===
12:42:25 <jflory7> Sorry, was using wrong channel for a minite...
12:42:32 <jflory7> Talking with Zanata folks
12:42:37 <jflory7> [14:41:06] <jflory7> Everyone is diving in...?
12:42:42 <jflory7> [14:41:15] <jflory7> mizmo: What was the bug again?
12:42:46 <jflory7> [14:41:21] <jflory7> mizmo: Could you re-link?
12:43:15 <mizmo> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/243   <= scavenger hunt, if anyone is up for a challenge
12:44:07 <jflory7> mizmo++ will mention
12:45:10 <jflory7> #info Q: "Do you have a Vagrant set up for this?"
12:45:37 <mizmo> is python venv not sufficient?
12:45:47 <jflory7> #info A: No-yes? ryanlerch has something he has been working on as a work in progress, but needs some more visiting
12:46:03 <jflory7> 243 is open now
12:46:05 <stickster> mizmo: It is, and works... the Vagrant setup probably saves a few steps for people not familiar with venv
12:46:15 <stickster> very popular tool with devs
12:46:54 <mizmo> my experience with vagrant - race condition kernel bug o_O
12:46:59 <jflory7> #help fedora-hubs#243 could use another pair of eyes
12:48:09 <jflory7> Think we're moving into free hacking space
12:48:36 <stickster> whoopsie
12:48:39 <skrzepto> regarding the read me
12:48:45 <skrzepto> we made install scripts :)
12:49:02 <jflory7> skrzepto: Ooh, where at??
12:49:15 <skrzepto> ahh forgot to PR them to develop
12:49:22 <skrzepto> they are on the Jenkins branch
12:49:25 <skrzepto> one sec
12:50:10 <jflory7> #topic Open hacking
12:50:50 * jflory7 is getting bootstrapped with running local instance of Hubs again
12:51:08 <jflory7> Anyone remote, feel free to ping me for question / discussion topic / etc.
12:51:20 <jflory7> Will bring it up here
12:52:38 <mizmo> for bug 243 - it doesn't seem to happen on promoted pages (like designteam), only on personal hubs or hubs with just one button
12:52:42 <mizmo> http://localhost:5000/designteam/  <= no problem
12:52:50 <mizmo> http://localhost:5000/duffy/ <= oopsie
12:55:25 * jflory7 is going to be AFK for a bit]
12:55:44 <mizmo> stickster, coolio
12:56:04 <mizmo> sorry google ui sucks
12:56:11 <skrzepto> it was great :)
12:56:24 <mizmo> stickster, the google hangouts UI sucks and im stuck trying to find the stupid thing
12:57:10 <stickster> mizmo: OK -- we can just have people find you on IRC if they want to interact
12:57:21 <mizmo> +1
12:57:27 <stickster> mizmo: skrzepto: Also, I might just shut down the audio feed then
12:57:40 <skrzepto> stickster, thats fine
12:57:41 <stickster> Otherwise you'll probably just hear a mishmosh of conversations with no real help
12:57:43 <mizmo> if i kept it off mute you'd hear occasional 3 year old screams lol
12:57:45 <stickster> haha
12:57:54 <skrzepto> :)
12:57:54 <stickster> mizmo: it's like being in an engineering department only with more naps
12:58:04 <mizmo> lol and more thomas the train
12:58:07 <stickster> heh
12:58:13 <stickster> OK, shutting down hangout
12:58:16 <mizmo> kk
13:40:48 <jflory7> I think we're packing up here. Going to send the minutes out across a few lists... lots of great info logged here. :)
13:40:50 <jflory7> #endmeeting