15:32:46 <nardasev> #startmeeting <Redefing how we deliver Fedora>
15:32:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug  3 15:32:46 2016 UTC.  The chair is nardasev. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:32:46 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:32:46 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to '<redefing_how_we_deliver_fedora>'
15:32:54 <nardasev> #meetingname flock2016
15:32:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'flock2016'
15:33:17 <nardasev> in Fedora 24, we made a bunch of significant changes about how we deliver it.
15:33:53 <nardasev> we switched to Pungi 4.
15:33:53 <nardasev> it's an internal tool for Red Hat
15:33:53 <nardasev> well now not only internal anymore
15:34:04 <nardasev> we started using Livemedia to create live CDs
15:34:13 <nardasev> Rawhide and branched complete nightly
15:34:57 <nardasev> when we branch and we do alpha, we make sure it composes
15:35:13 <nardasev> we didn't have that befor
15:35:37 <nardasev> we have a continuous stream of install media that is going to be tested on a regular basis
15:36:11 <nardasev> side effect: we are now turning 70 Gigabites on the disks on the ISOs
15:36:37 <nardasev> the full compose will be done once a week
15:36:51 <nardasev> longer term plan is completely get rid of Alpha.
15:37:05 <nardasev> If we do enough testing and gating, it should work
15:37:17 <nardasev> in Fedora 25, we have a few new things and people
15:37:24 <nardasev> Workstation ostree
15:37:52 <nardasev> you can install it and then yum install, you need to use Flatpak to install other things
15:38:09 <nardasev> We'll be making the Cockpit layered image
15:38:21 <nardasev> it's the first of layered images; a new deliverable type!
15:38:33 <nardasev> It allows you to have more container content
15:39:26 <nardasev> We'll be doing builds of Windows and OSX binaries of media creator
15:39:44 <nardasev> sign it, ship it so people can install it without special permissions
15:40:03 <nardasev> it will put the ISO for them and install it
15:40:20 <nardasev> new person Mohan Boddu - will be taking over lots of work from me
15:40:38 <nardasev> I will be able to focus on unifying how we build RHEL and Fedora
15:40:50 <nardasev> what is after Fedora 25?
15:41:01 <nardasev> ASBS is coming in (layered images) and Docker
15:41:47 <nardasev> people will be able to build layered images themselves after F25
15:41:56 <nardasev> we'll heavily focus on automation
15:42:17 <nardasev> #topic stuff after Fedora 25
15:42:38 <nardasev> Alternative architectures are other subject
15:44:30 <nardasev> it will free up releng people to be enhancing architecture, and so on
15:44:44 <nardasev> signed repos in Koji
15:44:49 <nardasev> DVD building in Koji
15:44:53 <nardasev> Modularity
15:45:17 <nardasev> in 24, the alternate architectures announcement was a part of the primary announcement
15:45:42 <nardasev> the alternate architectures are really not secondary to a lot of people
15:46:24 <nardasev> i686 to alternative Arch status
15:46:51 <nardasev> Bodhi runs RHEL 7
15:47:07 <nardasev> RHEL 7 rom doesn't know a thing about triggers etc
15:47:57 <nardasev> Koji web is stuck in the 90s
15:49:34 <nardasev> we're preparing to adopt modularity, so it doesn't come as such a shock
15:49:47 <nardasev> we're looking for resources for automatic signing
15:50:07 <nardasev> hope: F26 cycle, the Rawhide will always be signer
15:50:10 <nardasev> *signed
15:51:05 <nardasev> we redirect all rpm downloads to Cisco
15:51:25 <nardasev> turns out CDN doesn't support directories
15:51:46 <nardasev> as a side effect, we know how many people download the code
15:52:33 <nardasev> ostree commits should be signed so end users are more assured that the bits come from Fedora
15:52:40 <nardasev> #topic Challenges
15:52:47 <nardasev> Mirror churn
15:53:05 <nardasev> we had ostree repos in Fedora initially, then we had to remove it
15:53:30 <nardasev> it was destroying the performance of production storage platform
15:53:46 <nardasev> we need to figure out how to mirror ostree content
15:55:48 <nardasev> zero day updates for Fedora are just 9GB
16:00:32 <nardasev> rpm saved me 20 minutes this morning because of bad network
16:03:34 <nardasev> Fedora is so big that if you get a new Fedora install via yum, you need to first download 32MB worth of metadata
16:04:17 <nardasev> updates on the specs of downloading Fedora
16:05:44 <nardasev> new technologies not considering multi arch support
16:06:08 <nardasev> the bootload of configuration files vary across different architectures
16:06:38 <nardasev> it's inconvenient but it's time to market another deliverable
16:08:28 <nardasev> how to do more with less?
16:08:43 <nardasev> sometimes things break as the result of doing more with less
16:08:51 <nardasev> sometimes software, sometimes people
16:09:59 <nardasev> I'd like to have PDC telling Punji what to make
16:10:13 <nardasev> Reducing technical debt
16:10:19 <nardasev> #topic
16:10:24 <nardasev> #topic People
16:10:35 <nardasev> how to enable them to develop their own support
16:10:48 <nardasev> provide guidance and support to community contributors
16:11:04 <nardasev> Question time
16:12:07 <nardasev> would Fedora releng do an overview of future Modularity?
16:12:22 <nardasev> we need to keep doing what we are doing for longer than you'd suspect
16:12:40 <nardasev> They have modular version of Fedora server as Fedora 26 deliverable
16:13:06 <nardasev> everything needs to be broken up into smaller chunks
16:13:23 <nardasev> dnf still needs to work
16:14:13 <nardasev> we have a lot of stuff going on
16:14:20 <nardasev> everything repo needs to go away
16:14:42 <nardasev> instead of everything repo we will have a bunch of small repos
16:15:40 <nardasev> Dennis Gilmore is giving this talk
16:16:05 <nardasev> people have to help us implement all the requested stuff
16:16:29 <nardasev> engineering is providing some staff, but it will take 20-30 people, not 7-8
16:16:49 <nardasev> part of the workload that has historically been on the end user, is going to releng
16:18:14 <nardasev> you can't de-duplicate the content inside of a layered image
16:18:52 <nardasev> #endmeeting