apac_vfad_2018
LOGS
00:47:19 <GIANT_CRAB> #startmeeting APAC vFAD 2018
00:47:20 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Jan 14 00:47:19 2018 UTC.  The chair is GIANT_CRAB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:47:20 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:47:20 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'apac_vfad_2018'
00:47:58 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic roll call
00:49:20 <GIANT_CRAB> #chair kagesenshi
00:49:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB kagesenshi
00:49:32 <kagesenshi> .fas izhar
00:49:35 <zodbot> kagesenshi: izhar 'Mohd Izhar Firdaus Ismail' <kagesenshi.87@gmail.com>
00:49:45 <GIANT_CRAB> .fas woohuiren
00:49:46 <zodbot> GIANT_CRAB: woohuiren 'Woo Huiren' <giantcrabby@gmail.com>
00:50:10 <GIANT_CRAB> we'll wait a while I guess
00:52:05 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic roll call
00:53:09 <kagesenshi> i think other timezones are not awake yet :)
00:53:38 <GIANT_CRAB> the topic command aint working?
00:54:15 <kagesenshi> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Fedora-specific_functions
00:55:06 <kagesenshi> if i remember correctly #topic will just be recorded in log
00:57:37 <GIANT_CRAB> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018
01:13:47 <GIANT_CRAB> hello siddharthvipul
01:13:55 <GIANT_CRAB> skamath hello
01:17:06 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Hello o/
01:17:10 <skamath> Hi all :D
01:18:51 <GIANT_CRAB> #chair skamath
01:18:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB kagesenshi skamath
01:24:12 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic agenda
01:25:51 * skamath wondering why the topic didn't change
01:26:19 <GIANT_CRAB> today we'll discuss about the strategies for contributor growth, challenges faced by contributors and future events to be conducted. Other than that, we'll take feedback and comments from contributors (if any)
01:27:07 <GIANT_CRAB> more info about this virtual FAD can be found on the event page
01:27:09 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018
01:27:41 <GIANT_CRAB> some folks will be joining in a bit later, so feel free to add topics to the agenda
01:28:39 <skamath> #topic Swag Logistics
01:29:10 <skamath> Can I also add a country specific topic, GIANT_CRAB?
01:29:22 <GIANT_CRAB> sure
01:29:49 <skamath> #topic Defining better onboarding steps for Indian contributors
01:29:57 <skamath> This is something that really needs to be done.
01:30:50 <skamath> In the wiki, it is mentioned that if you're from India, they require a CLA +1. This was done to prevent a mass flood of people who flock in to become ambassadors, just to put on their resume.
01:31:17 <skamath> Not sure if it is still valid now, maybe Sumantro or Sankarshan should be able to answer this when they're around
01:32:12 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Did you set a meetingname so this can be searched for in meetbot?
01:32:57 <skamath> #meetingname fad_apac_2018
01:32:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fad_apac_2018'
01:32:58 <GIANT_CRAB> #info The meeting name has been set to 'apac_vfad_2018'
01:33:08 <skamath> Oh, oops
01:33:15 <GIANT_CRAB> oh no haha
01:33:26 <GIANT_CRAB> #meetingname apac_vfad_2018
01:33:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'apac_vfad_2018'
01:33:40 <GIANT_CRAB> I hope that doesn't do anything weird
01:33:49 <skamath> No, it just takes the last one
01:34:03 <GIANT_CRAB> oh, great
01:34:29 <GIANT_CRAB> skamath: that was implemented in the 2016 FAD?
01:34:37 <skamath> Looks like the last APAC fad was on 29-04-2016
01:34:39 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Yes
01:34:48 <GIANT_CRAB> .fas skamath
01:34:49 <zodbot> GIANT_CRAB: skamath 'Sachin S Kamath ' <sskamath96@gmail.com>
01:34:51 <skamath> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/sresults/?group_id=apac_2016-04-29&type=team
01:34:56 <skamath> .fasinfo skamath
01:35:00 <zodbot> skamath: User: skamath, Name: Sachin S Kamath , email: sskamath96@gmail.com, Creation: 2014-11-12, IRC Nick: skamath, Timezone: Asia/Kolkata, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 9E865679, Status: active
01:35:03 <zodbot> skamath: Approved Groups: @community-blog fedorabugs qa +fedora-join summer-coding ambassadors cvsl10n freemedia +commops cla_fpca cla_done
01:35:04 <skamath> :)
01:35:56 <skamath> That reminds me I need to update my gpg :P
01:36:34 <skamath> .localtime bexelbie
01:36:37 <zodbot> skamath: User "bexelbie" doesn't exist
01:36:41 <skamath> .localtime bex
01:36:43 <zodbot> skamath: The current local time of "bex" is: "02:36" (timezone: Europe/Prague)
01:37:05 <skamath> Ah, we can expect bex a bit later. It's too early for him.
01:39:11 <GIANT_CRAB> I've added your issue here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/challenges#Challenges_Faced
01:39:30 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/challenges#Challenges_Faced
01:40:06 <GIANT_CRAB> .fasinfo woohuiren
01:40:08 <zodbot> GIANT_CRAB: User: woohuiren, Name: Woo Huiren, email: giantcrabby@gmail.com, Creation: 2015-07-12, IRC Nick: GIANT_CRAB, Timezone: Asia/Singapore, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 84502749211A2669, Status: active
01:40:13 <zodbot> GIANT_CRAB: Approved Groups: marketing ambassadors cla_done cla_fpca
01:41:23 <skamath> That's a nice compilation! GIANT_CRAB++ zsun++ :)
01:41:23 <zodbot> skamath: Karma for woohuiren changed to 1 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
01:41:26 <zodbot> skamath: Karma for zsun changed to 1 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
01:42:04 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, How is it going in Singapore?
01:42:31 <GIANT_CRAB> a little chilly here. been raining for many many many consecutive days. how are you in India?
01:43:11 <skamath> It's good. Really humid here in the South. Apart from that, all good. Force waking myself with coffee :)
01:43:42 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Are you the only ambassador from SGP?
01:44:13 <skamath> Oh okay, I see 5 names on the wiki
01:44:19 <skamath> Are all of them active?
01:45:10 <GIANT_CRAB> no
01:45:24 <skamath> Looking at the list, I also see 6 names in Sri Lanka but I've not seen any of them around
01:46:20 <skamath> India has 25 and I think there are only around 10-15 who are active
01:46:25 <GIANT_CRAB> uh, probably 3 active ambassadors? Harish Pillay and my mentor, Herson. we've not organized any events since the last release party we organized
01:46:38 <GIANT_CRAB> skamath: that's pretty neat
01:46:48 <GIANT_CRAB> what events did y'all run last year
01:47:35 <skamath> Let's see.
01:47:46 <skamath> We had F26 and 27 release parties in Bangalore.
01:47:55 <skamath> And also in Pune.
01:48:03 <GIANT_CRAB> Release parties aren't good here in SGP though, poor attendance.
01:48:20 <skamath> We had a Fedora Womens Day event
01:48:27 <GIANT_CRAB> hows the attendance like there?
01:48:33 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmmm, that's great!
01:48:53 <skamath> And Sumantro, siddharthvipul and I are holding a 2 day open source workshop soon for newcomers
01:49:03 <skamath> Where we will be having a release party and install fest
01:49:16 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, That depends. Around 20-ish
01:49:43 <GIANT_CRAB> When are these events happening?
01:49:45 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, The one we are about to hold is part of a college tech fest so I'm expecting around 100.
01:49:58 <GIANT_CRAB> nice!
01:50:31 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Reports keep popping up in CommBlog from time to time about India events.
01:50:41 <skamath> you can find the dates on the apac pagure.
01:50:49 <GIANT_CRAB> is there any way I can help you with?
01:51:17 <GIANT_CRAB> okay! I'll check them out and add it to the list
01:51:19 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/events
01:51:35 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Feel free! For the upcoming event, our target audience is college students who will use Linux at some point (or are new to it)
01:51:53 <skamath> It's a really good opportunity to pitch Fedora and maybe the Python Classroom spin
01:52:04 <skamath> Since a lot of courses in India are Python oriented
01:52:58 <skamath> And people here use $a_very_popular_debian_based_distro here because it comes pre-installed in all the lab machines and they don't have much choice.
01:53:25 <skamath> They get familiar to it and then, they dual boot their laptops with it. TBH, people thought Fedora was really cool when I told them it was better back in my college
01:53:53 <skamath> The gnome animations did have a major role in making them say that :)
01:54:26 <GIANT_CRAB> well, $a_very_popular_debian_based_distro now uses gnome by default
01:54:38 <GIANT_CRAB> and systemd too
01:54:50 <skamath> Ah yes, but I don't think the colleges are planning to switch to the latest release anytime soon :P
01:55:15 <skamath> Because the faculty folks are trained to use Unity.
01:55:31 <skamath> If they make a sudden switch, they'll be lost.
01:55:36 <GIANT_CRAB> oh
01:55:45 <GIANT_CRAB> but I think they could still re-enable Unity
01:56:14 <GIANT_CRAB> i've saw an article about Ubuntu working on Unity again (straight up few weeks after they decided to drop it)
01:56:17 <skamath> Yes, but my point is - This is a great opportunity to Pitch in Fedora and see what they think about it.
01:56:37 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmmm I see!
01:56:38 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Yes there is but it won't receive any UI updates.
01:56:52 <skamath> (unless the community takes over the development)
01:57:16 <skamath> And we have something, Ubuntu doesn't have. Fedora Lab spins! :D
01:57:49 <GIANT_CRAB> does talking about freedom convince people?
01:58:15 <skamath> I guess that depends on how we pitch it.
01:58:28 <GIANT_CRAB> since Fedora is the most libre mainstream distros
01:58:35 <skamath> We can take the "Closed is evil" approach or "Free is awesome" approach.
01:58:52 <skamath> I usually start with the first and move to second for the best impact.
01:59:27 <skamath> (and quote Torvalds on why he doesn't prefer $the_popular_distro) sometimes
01:59:54 <GIANT_CRAB> is Linus still using Fedora?
02:00:37 <skamath> I have no clue. There was no recent news
02:03:10 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmmm
02:03:37 <skamath> From what I see on his gplus feed, he was on Fedora till 21
02:03:42 <skamath> No news after that
02:03:46 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic contributor growth
02:04:13 <GIANT_CRAB> #info take the "Closed is evil" approach or "Free is awesome" approach. - skamath
02:04:51 * skamath is going afk for an hour or so. I've got a ceremony to attend here
02:04:55 <GIANT_CRAB> kagesenshi: any comments?
02:05:02 <GIANT_CRAB> skamath: alright!
02:06:08 <kagesenshi_> On status of .my?
02:07:28 <kagesenshi_> Well .. on this side things are kinda .. open source is quite norm that I kind of lost on what to promote xD
02:08:02 <kagesenshi_> Local distro usergroups all pretty much silent now ..
02:08:43 <kagesenshi_> But tech stack usergroups are like mushrooms
02:09:55 <kagesenshi_> Need to new strategy for contributor growth .. but I'm not sure what
02:10:44 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmmm
02:11:19 <GIANT_CRAB> are you currently still working for a contractor of Red Hat (or did I phrased it incorrectly?)
02:12:08 <kagesenshi_> Biz Partner .. even there the customer interest is more in jboss / openshift rather than the OS itself
02:12:38 <kagesenshi_> Though my department focus now is more on Hortonworks stack
02:14:21 <kagesenshi_> OS , customer just take whatever OS the stack comes together with
02:16:27 <GIANT_CRAB> that's a challenging issue
02:18:13 <GIANT_CRAB> .fasinfo kagesenshi
02:18:16 <zodbot> GIANT_CRAB: User "kagesenshi" doesn't exist
02:18:25 <kagesenshi_> .fasinfo izhar
02:18:29 <zodbot> kagesenshi_: User: izhar, Name: Mohd Izhar Firdaus Ismail, email: kagesenshi.87@gmail.com, Creation: 2007-03-05, IRC Nick: kagesenshi, Timezone: Asia/Kuala_Lumpur, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 8A5D7331, Status: active
02:18:32 <zodbot> kagesenshi_: Approved Groups: cvsl10n fedorabugs cla_fedora cla_done packager ambassadors cla_fpca
02:19:17 <bexelbie[m]> .hello bex
02:19:19 <zodbot> bexelbie[m]: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
02:19:27 <GIANT_CRAB> do you think that is an issue though?
02:19:43 <GIANT_CRAB> hey bexelbie[m] ! Thanks for joining at such weird early hours
02:19:53 <GIANT_CRAB> .chair bexelbie[m]
02:19:55 <zodbot> bexelbie [m] is seated in a chair with a nice view of a placid lake, unsuspecting that another chair is about to be slammed into them.
02:20:22 <GIANT_CRAB> #chair bexelbie[m]
02:20:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB bexelbie[m] kagesenshi skamath
02:20:36 <bexelbie[m]> You’re welcome. I’m sorry I’m late. I won a game of late both Settlers while not remembering this
02:21:19 <bexelbie[m]> Is there an ether pad I can read back on?
02:21:35 <GIANT_CRAB> no worries! kagesenshi_ was just discussing about challenges
02:21:36 <kagesenshi_> @GIANT_CRAB: , for open source, it's not an issue .. it shows that open source is well adopted here to the point ppl don't even think about OS / distro anymore .. but it do cause it difficult for me to think of something to do under Fedora brand .. I have lots of idea if its under openshift, Hortonworks, python brand
02:22:10 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: I'll get one up now
02:22:13 <GIANT_CRAB> with summary
02:23:13 <GIANT_CRAB> https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/VFAD_APAC_2018
02:24:27 <bexelbie[m]> I’m guessing a bit at the topic, but could we focus efforts on people solving problems and show them how Fedora makes that easier. Following along with the new mission statement? For example targeting developers or people who might build labs
02:24:36 <bexelbie[m]> Labs on Fedora I mean
02:24:45 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/VFAD_APAC_2018
02:27:07 <bexelbie[m]> What is the current topic relative to what is in the pad?
02:27:28 <GIANT_CRAB> current topic is contributor growth
02:28:54 <GIANT_CRAB> washzeasy ?
02:29:15 <GIANT_CRAB> oh
02:29:36 <bexelbie[m]> Sorry. On a phone. Will grab the laptop if the typos get worse :)
02:29:44 <GIANT_CRAB> okay, so what does Fedora make things easy/convenient?
02:29:51 <GIANT_CRAB> Fedora Labs and spins?
02:30:09 <bexelbie[m]> For everyone I wrote: why not turn this away from “us vs them” and focus on what is easy to do in Fedora. Theoretically you can do basically anything in any district. Let’s talk up what we make easy.
02:30:44 <bexelbie[m]> I think the fact that we will build labs (non-release blocking) means you can target to your audience
02:31:04 <bexelbie[m]> We have an easy on boarding for packages and with Modularity we are looking at delivering multiple versions of software.
02:32:00 <bexelbie[m]> Two ideas
02:32:07 <bexelbie[m]> I’m sure there are more
02:32:25 <bexelbie[m]> Part of it is you need to define who you’re trying to talk. What kind of contributors or users
02:33:00 <bexelbie[m]> Another thing that might appeal is the presence of local community in APAC but not being segregated when doing contribution from people around the world.
02:35:14 <GIANT_CRAB> so how would one organize an event to attract people who might be potentially interested in the Security Lab of Fedora?
02:35:36 <bexelbie[m]> For students the fact that we participate in things like GSoC and other distributions don’t.
02:36:05 <bexelbie[m]> For the security lab have a talk/tutorial. Show how to use it
02:36:56 <bexelbie[m]> The role of ambassadors for that might be to find the right contributor (ambassador or not) and get them there. Provide funding and logistics.
02:37:43 <bexelbie[m]> The ambassador is not expected to be an expert in everything and do it all. Find the right person and place and let someone else do the lab/tutorial/talk
02:38:41 <bexelbie[m]> Even if that means flying in someone from another region/country. A good event with lots of potential can justify that.
02:39:18 <bexelbie[m]> We do it now
02:39:46 * bexelbie[m] is talking too much. I want to listen too :):)
02:40:39 <bexelbie[m]> Kagesenshi_ what would you do under those other brands?
02:40:40 <GIANT_CRAB> Okay, so should we /ever/ have an open way of allowing people who wish to present at APAC conferences (with topics related to Fedora or usage of Fedora, etc?)
02:41:17 <GIANT_CRAB> or scholarships for students who like to attend FLOSS events or APAC conferences?
02:41:37 <GIANT_CRAB> This would cost a lot, though.
02:41:47 <GIANT_CRAB> Or you think there's a better approach or alternative?
02:41:49 <bexelbie[m]> We can’t stop someone from presenting. Instead I’d consider how can we encourage them to talk?
02:42:04 <bexelbie[m]> I’m less in favor of scholarships without a strong justification.
02:42:26 <bexelbie[m]> And I’m not worried about money because I see how much we have at budget.fp.o
02:42:33 <GIANT_CRAB> the student must have contributed to Fedora in some way?
02:43:06 <bexelbie[m]> How does sending a student to a conference help Fedora too? A speaker is easier to understand.
02:43:44 <kagesenshi_> @bexelbie[m]: , let's see .. openshift - talks / workshop around automation on the platform .. Hortonworks - data management, data processing, distributed programming talks .. python - web development, distributed programming , etc .. and even project ideas
02:43:51 <bexelbie[m]> A random contributor attending for no special reason that matters to both Fedora and them is harder for me to understand.
02:44:18 <bexelbie[m]> I want to go to conference X vs I am speaking at conference X vs I am going to conference X to be part of the Y working group that affects Fedora by ...
02:44:32 <GIANT_CRAB> You are right.
02:44:40 <bexelbie[m]> Kagesenshi_ how are those incompatible with Fedora?
02:45:02 <GIANT_CRAB> So the conference should be related to free software or Fedora? Or strictly Fedora related?
02:45:22 <bexelbie[m]> One way to attract developers, for example, as users who may become contributors is to have Fedora as the example OS in other talks
02:45:53 <GIANT_CRAB> hmmmm
02:45:59 <kagesenshi_> The only relationship I can think of .. Openshift / python - runs of Fedora xD .. Hadoop/Hortonworks runs on CentOS
02:46:38 <bexelbie[m]> Ubuntu has lots of mindshare because a TON of talks, blogs, etc use it as the example. We won’t change that in one year but we can show cool stuff on Fedora
02:46:45 <GIANT_CRAB> I do that for all my talks that I give at conferences and meetups. Sometimes, curious folks ask what I'm running and I talk to them and discuss etc. Nothing much of a way to follow up?
02:47:02 <bexelbie[m]> And not just rehashing last week’s Ubuntu story using dnf instead of apt
02:47:45 <bexelbie[m]> Running on Fedora is important. And for openshift, I believe they are working on making Fedora be the first platform.
02:47:51 <GIANT_CRAB> kagesenshi_: easy to setup OpenShift for dev use on Fedora
02:48:15 <GIANT_CRAB> but its not easy to setup OpenShift for enterprise usage AFAIK? Or am I wrong.
02:48:30 <kagesenshi_> It's easier on centos / rhel
02:48:39 <bexelbie[m]> For python we ship it early like many, but we also have the python classroom lab and “Fedora loves python” — although I don’t know what that means really for deva
02:48:42 <bexelbie[m]> Devs
02:48:48 <GIANT_CRAB> I tried doing it. Lots of edges that cut me, including the complicated Role based Authorization control
02:49:14 <bexelbie[m]> Fedora might not be the preferred environment  for the container runtime
02:49:15 <kagesenshi_> Iirc there's ansible script u can just run
02:49:26 <bexelbie[m]> But it is a great container runtime.
02:50:00 <bexelbie[m]> Try doing a Java app in a CentOS container with software collections. It can get hairy.
02:50:21 <bexelbie[m]> There is also mini shift iirc for Fedora
02:50:49 <GIANT_CRAB> ah yes, I run MiniShift on Fedora
02:51:13 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): For followup - treat the person like you would someone who came to the booth. Follow up the same way
02:54:11 <GIANT_CRAB> So how do we invite/encourage people to give talks about Fedora?
02:54:47 <GIANT_CRAB> But before that, how do we build a local Fedora community?
02:55:54 <bexelbie[m]> Post a talk on YouTube - get swag. Giving a talk - get funding. Here is a list of 15 talk ideas and three conferences to submit too. Fedora talk? Let us help you review you submission and polish it.
02:56:34 <bexelbie[m]> Who do you want to build a community of? Let that dictate how and where
03:00:05 <GIANT_CRAB> Okay, so do I create a wiki page for APAC on things we provide support/funding for?
03:01:00 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: I'm thinking of focusing on cloud related since folks here like to talk about cloud
03:01:31 <bexelbie[m]> If that is what works. However a wiki page alone won’t draw people in. More than likely ambassadors need to find people and help them be successful
03:02:09 <bexelbie[m]> Fedora Atomic has a good cloud story, aiui
03:02:37 <bexelbie[m]> How can we connect that to the places local to you where cloud gets  talked, for example
03:02:57 <GIANT_CRAB> #action Create a wiki page to aid ambassadors in finding potential contributors
03:03:25 <GIANT_CRAB> #action Create a wiki page on resources/funding/assistance we can provide to potential contributors
03:04:42 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: okay, so lets say I'm at an AWS meetup as an attendee, how do I promote the use of Fedora? And if I'm a speaker, how do I promote the use of Fedora without making the topic look like I'm solely promoting Fedora?
03:05:12 <GIANT_CRAB> kagesenshi_: any ideas on this too?
03:05:40 <bexelbie[m]> Promote Fedora by showing it used to solve a real problem faced by the attendees.
03:06:14 <bexelbie[m]> Few people run an OS for the thrill of seeing it boot - they rub it to solve a problem.
03:06:58 <kagesenshi> @GIANT_CRAB, none  .. am looking at others for ideas at the moment XD
03:07:22 <GIANT_CRAB> lol
03:07:31 <bexelbie[m]> The same as with code. I have a new project. I could use python or ruby. Ruby has a special library that makes it easy. Python doesn’t. Today I’ll write ruby :D
03:08:18 <bexelbie[m]> Or they both have the library but the presenter used python so o do too because I can borrow ideas and code from the presentation.
03:09:27 <bexelbie[m]> Show a cloud group hie to leverage AWS to solve their problem in Fedora and some will use it. Even if the same solution basically works in Ubuntu and AmazinLinux
03:09:36 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmm, that's great. Then how do I source for potential contributors at such meetups or events?
03:09:47 <bexelbie[m]> Hie = how
03:10:29 <bexelbie[m]> Who do you know? Ask on devel list. Ask other ambassadors. Ask related working groups and sigs. Look at Fedora planet.
03:10:52 <GIANT_CRAB> I just go like "hello, my name is XYZ, whats yours?" "Fedora Ambassador, blah blah, we're looking for contributors?"
03:11:41 <bexelbie[m]> I posted to devel-list and got an openshift person and a cockpit person to help at a booth at a developer conference
03:11:58 <bexelbie[m]> Also, cockpit is another great demo piece, imho
03:12:46 <GIANT_CRAB> what developer conference was it?
03:12:55 <bexelbie[m]> Ahh misunderstood you’re question - talking to people is cultural. But generally try to connect people to their interests.
03:13:03 <bexelbie[m]> Buildstuff.lt
03:13:47 <bexelbie[m]> Ideally you’d have a contact in that area. In my experience that is often not the case.
03:14:33 <bexelbie[m]> We did a joint Fedora/CentOS booth
03:15:57 <bexelbie[m]> Part of the consideration is that contributors generally are motivated to contribute to scratch an itch: that could be to solve their problem; change the world; get an ‘A’ from their professor or to get a free T-shirt.
03:16:24 <bexelbie[m]> Knowing why they want to contribute is key.
03:17:05 <bexelbie[m]> Letting them know they can and gaining the altruistic contributors is where in person work often helps
03:17:19 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmm!
03:18:10 <GIANT_CRAB> how much can we set aside for booths?
03:18:45 <bexelbie[m]> And I heard a great line from an MDN coordinator, “ Don’t look down on the contributors who only do it for the T-shirt. You still got the contribution!”
03:19:33 <GIANT_CRAB> Mozilla Developer Network?
03:20:31 <bexelbie[m]> Yes
03:20:39 <bexelbie[m]> Iirc
03:22:31 <bexelbie[m]> Re:money - that’s not the primary concern in my opinion.
03:22:33 <bexelbie[m]> https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/FY18/overall.html
03:22:53 <bexelbie[m]> APAC has over $4000 left unspent
03:23:00 <bexelbie[m]> Look at what Fedora has overall unspent.
03:23:33 <bexelbie[m]> Yes, it is possible to use it all. But so far that has been a problem we’d like to have not one we have.
03:23:51 <bexelbie[m]> And APAC can get more from the council.
03:25:23 <bexelbie[m]> It’s an relatively easy process. Here is how EMEA did it: https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/163
03:28:47 <GIANT_CRAB> Okay, so if an ambassador would like to request for budget for an event, they go to the APAC ambassadors ticketing and raise a ticket? Just clarifying
03:29:41 <bexelbie[m]> I don’t know the process in APAC. However with the new Mindshare group I suggest we work with them on a lightweight process.
03:29:51 <bexelbie[m]> If we need a new one at all
03:30:15 <GIANT_CRAB> What's this Mindshare group thing?
03:30:41 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mindshare
03:32:15 <bexelbie[m]> It is replacing and expanding FAmSCo
03:32:37 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: current process for APAC is -- during a FAD, we put up a list of events with our budgets. we go through the list during FAD in the order and discuss whether it is a GO or NO GO
03:32:55 <bexelbie[m]> Ambassadors have appointed reps ... maybe someone from APAC could/should volunteer?
03:32:56 <GIANT_CRAB> when the event comes closer, we raise a ticket for the event, requesting for budget
03:33:39 <GIANT_CRAB> it is then decided whether the budget is approved. If not approved, then the event is still a NO GO despite the GO during the FAD.
03:33:44 <bexelbie[m]> That is certainly one option. But it seems to mean that good ideas thought if after the FAD can’t be done. That feels limiting.
03:34:09 <GIANT_CRAB> yes, I think so too. it is very very limiting
03:34:17 <bexelbie[m]> Other regions just approve as they go.
03:34:35 <GIANT_CRAB> okay, so do we need to re-think the approval process?
03:34:58 <GIANT_CRAB> and do we still collate a list of events we want to carry out?
03:35:16 <bexelbie[m]> Setting goals would be cool though. Like we want to focus on these kinds of audiences or definitely have a presence at these events
03:35:17 <GIANT_CRAB> like how we do it on
03:35:20 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/events
03:35:35 <GIANT_CRAB> okay, so goals are important
03:35:55 <GIANT_CRAB> do we need to do 'budget forecasting' like we used to do?
03:36:20 <GIANT_CRAB> #action come up with a new and better way for event approval
03:36:27 <bexelbie[m]> No. Right now we don’t.
03:36:40 <bexelbie[m]> If that changes I’ll definitely let you know.
03:37:49 <bexelbie[m]> The council is saying they would like to experiments and action. Think about what happened. Did we achieve our goals, would we do it again? Would we change anything?
03:38:44 <bexelbie[m]> The budgets appeared to shrink so that the money could stay useful. As an example:
03:39:22 <bexelbie[m]> The $4500 underspent in APAC is hard to take back and use for other things. Imagine if it were $15000
03:41:15 <bexelbie[m]> And not succeeding is not shameful if you had a realist. plan for success. Analyze results and grow. Look at Modularity.
03:41:55 <bexelbie[m]> Realistic not realist
03:41:58 <GIANT_CRAB> hello zsun
03:42:07 <GIANT_CRAB> #chair zsun
03:42:07 <zodbot> Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB bexelbie[m] kagesenshi skamath zsun
03:42:17 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: mmmmm
03:42:22 <bexelbie[m]> o/
03:42:44 <bexelbie[m]> Skamarth is here?
03:43:04 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic organizing an event
03:43:23 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: yap. He's afk for a while, attending to an event
03:43:35 <bexelbie[m]> Cool
03:45:32 <GIANT_CRAB> Added that part into the etherpad
03:45:45 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/VFAD_APAC_2018
03:46:27 <zsun> hi GIANT_CRAB.
03:46:37 <GIANT_CRAB> #info Experiment and reflect (Think about what happened. Did we achieve our goals, would we do it again? Would we change anything?) - Bex
03:46:39 * zsun can only be here for about an hour
03:46:56 <GIANT_CRAB> okay
03:47:00 <bexelbie[m]> Perhaps the work that LATAM just did on this could be borrowed for APAC (or the process from NA or EMEA) - no need to reinvent from scratch
03:47:15 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: can we jump topic to issues that zsun might want to discuss?
03:47:22 <bexelbie[m]> Sure
03:47:32 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic Issues/challenges faced by China & Taiwan
03:47:44 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/challenges#Challenges_Faced
03:48:04 <GIANT_CRAB> zsun has kindly put up a list of challenges he has faced so far
03:48:44 <GIANT_CRAB> Issues include Lack of contributors in organizing events., Open Source is popular in China in a wrong way, Lack of packagers.
03:48:59 <GIANT_CRAB> zsun: any comments you would like to raise?
03:49:33 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic Lack of contributors in organizing events [CHINA]
03:50:33 <zsun> For the latter one, lack of packagers, it is an outstanding problem in TW but luckily not in mainland China. I can only mention that since we still have some active packagers, we can help them pick up some packages in the short run
03:51:09 <zsun> In this way, they can have more time to motivate people to be a packager
03:51:39 <bexelbie[m]> Is the goal packagers in China then?
03:52:03 * zsun did not catch bexelbie's point
03:52:20 <bexelbie[m]> What is the motivation:incentive for the contributor? Why should they package?
03:52:50 <bexelbie[m]> I meant: is the focus of Chinese ambassadors mostly on os having and not other contributions?
03:53:04 <bexelbie[m]> Ugh typos
03:53:16 <zsun> bexelbie[m]: No.
03:53:23 <bexelbie[m]> I meant: is the focus of Chinese ambassadors mostly on packaging and not other contributions?
03:53:46 <bexelbie[m]> So is the primary focus working?
03:53:55 <zsun> In fact most of us have our own focuse based on available time - packaging , translation, etc.
03:54:40 <zsun> As I mentioned in the challenge section, we are lacking of event-organizers
03:54:41 <bexelbie[m]> That’s cool. But is there a goal as ambassadors? Or only as contributors?
03:55:08 <bexelbie[m]> Both are fine, just trying to understand what is not working. What’s not getting done?
03:55:27 <bexelbie[m]> What events would we have, if we had people?
03:56:30 <zsun> I still hold the same opinion as we talked during LinuxCon - I do think we need to hold events in campus, so that more students can involve and help.
03:57:26 <bexelbie[m]> If I recall we weren’t sure we could even get in campus
03:58:10 <bexelbie[m]> What would those students be doing? Do we have people (remote or local) who can help them after the event that attracts them?
03:58:58 <bexelbie[m]> RH has offices in China. If I could find someone to organize logistics does that change anything?
03:59:44 <zsun> I believe we can help online.
04:00:22 <bexelbie[m]> Should we try something as basic as “come to this coffee shop. Watch me package, let’s livestream this and pair package - ask questions and learn things”?
04:00:49 <bexelbie[m]> So do we just need an intro event and then do online followup?
04:02:39 <zsun> I believe packaging isn't that interesting for them in China - I believe this is what we mean by not sure before. Finding what they want is still essential. And that need someone who have some more time, rather than people just like me or others who are too busy for offline events
04:02:50 * bexelbie[m] is willing to live-program terribly in ruby to get contributors to docs tooling :)
04:03:52 <GIANT_CRAB> ha!
04:03:59 <bexelbie[m]> If we don’t know what they want and we don’t have resources to find out, maybe we should pick a more realistic goal? We don’t have to focus on students if there is an easier group
04:05:13 <zsun> Yup, I mostly agree. I don't know much about other groups so I should leave this question to someone else
04:05:27 <zsun> Or maybe, finding out a focused group can be a short term goal
04:05:43 <bexelbie[m]> Sounds like a good one.
04:06:42 <bexelbie[m]> Fedora has a no-cost booth presence with other RH communities in Beijing at LinuxCon. Can we use that to do the research somehow?
04:08:12 <zsun> Sounds like we can use some of the data / evidence from LinuxCon Beijing as a reference
04:08:32 <GIANT_CRAB> #action Find out no-cost booth with RH communities for APAC region
04:09:17 <bexelbie[m]> I can help with that and i bet Harish can to
04:10:32 <bexelbie[m]> There is also a booth in Japan but the show has a heavy automotive theme too (Open Source Summit Tokyo)
04:10:46 <zsun> I'd mark the short-term goal for mainland China.
04:10:55 <bexelbie[m]> APAC may need to buy tickets, etc but we can work that out
04:11:39 <zsun> #action CN: Find out a focused group for events etc. to work on.
04:12:04 <zsun> For TW and HK, I don't know much. Should leave it to their ambassadors.
04:14:39 <GIANT_CRAB> any other issues you would like to comment on? Or anything we can help with?
04:14:56 <GIANT_CRAB> Are there any events you are organizing that I can help with?
04:15:06 * zsun no more comments yet
04:15:59 <GIANT_CRAB> are there still logistics issues?
04:16:16 <GIANT_CRAB> I recall you mentioned about difficulties with logistics/swags going to China
04:17:14 <zsun> Shipping to China is still a problem. But I believe swag related issue can be seen as not a blocker. Either we produce it in China, or we ask RH Beijing for direct help
04:18:20 <bexelbie[m]> Cool
04:19:17 <zsun> Or I should explain like this: We cannot follow the central production way of APAC due to import/export regulations. We can produce our own in China which won't be too pricey and will be much easier that import
04:19:31 <GIANT_CRAB> thats good to hear
04:21:09 <zsun> I believe you can continue to other topics / regions
04:21:24 <GIANT_CRAB> Alright, thank you!
04:22:32 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic Future Events
04:22:49 <GIANT_CRAB> Specifically, sponsoring a prize for Hackathons
04:23:26 <GIANT_CRAB> Harish is one of the organizers for the code::XtremeApps hackathon, so the booth would be gratis
04:24:16 <GIANT_CRAB> I've seen Justin had a booth for one of the Hackathons that was in his school? And wanted to try to adopt something similar to what he did (because it seemed successful)
04:25:03 <GIANT_CRAB> I'm thinking that Fedora /could/ sponsor a prize for the Hackathon. But what do you think should be the criteria to win this "Open source prize"?
04:25:14 <GIANT_CRAB> Or do you think that sponsoring a prize is a bad idea?
04:26:15 <zsun> I don't know the status in SG, while in CN this is a bad idea - People don't really care about who sponsored the prize
04:26:47 <bexelbie[m]> Perhaps we can do a different kind of sponsorship?
04:27:01 <bexelbie[m]> Or could we give a prize for the best solution that uses Fedora?
04:27:10 <GIANT_CRAB> What kind of sponsorship?
04:27:10 <bexelbie[m]> Tie it to our goals?
04:27:52 <bexelbie[m]> What’s the goal. A sponsorship is your name in front of people. Are these our audiences?
04:28:40 <bexelbie[m]> Iirc Justin’s events feature coaches from Fedora to help people. The sponsorship is our “cost” to get them in the door.
04:29:28 * skamath is back
04:29:30 <skamath> Hey bexelbie[m] o/
04:30:18 <bexelbie[m]> o/
04:31:23 <skamath> From what I see on the scrollback (znc doesn't have more than 50 for me), targeting students is the right thing to do, atleast in apac
04:31:55 <skamath> I was telling GIANT_CRAB about how Ubuntu is imposed upon students in India and how to get over it
04:32:28 <bexelbie[m]> Can you share that here?
04:32:32 <skamath> I don't know about the other regions but I think I know how it is in India.
04:32:45 <skamath> bexelbie[m], It was a while before you joined. Hold on. I'll say it again.
04:32:52 <skamath> So, this is how it is in my college :
04:32:54 <bexelbie[m]> I’m not opposed to students but what’s the goal there in India?
04:33:13 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: get them in the door?
04:33:24 <skamath> We have ubuntu distributions here and faculty members are well-versed in it and they all are so used to Unity.
04:33:29 <GIANT_CRAB> coaches? I see
04:33:58 <skamath> When I showed them Fedora, they were really excited about it. They hadn't seen anything like it before Linux was pretty much equal to Ubuntu for them
04:34:12 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: yes. Developers are audiences. Potential contributors and likely users
04:34:50 <bexelbie[m]> What excites them about Fedora instead of Ubuntu?
04:34:50 <skamath> I pitched Fedora to a few of the folks here and people thought it was really cool. They liked what Fedora believes in and also loved how everything is almost always up-to-date in Fedora
04:35:06 <GIANT_CRAB> Our booth could also have coaches from Fedora, showing the ease of Fedora. I was thinking of prize sponsorship that will incentivize them to create a product during their Hackathon time to contribute towards the free software communities or Fedora.
04:35:52 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): not sure we can force focus like that - would depend on the hackathon goals.
04:35:55 <GIANT_CRAB> skamath: are there clubs related to free software or Linux there?
04:36:01 <skamath> bexelbie[m], From what I understood, Gnome was very flashy. They loved the new look and they were bored of it. Also, they liked how Fedora is bleeding edge and were excited to know about the Python Classroom spin which comes with a lot of packages.
04:36:16 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: that's what other companies are doing at Hackathons. Seem to work well
04:36:22 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Almost every other university has a "FOSS" club but it's mostly all Mozilla stuff.
04:36:25 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): cool
04:36:38 <skamath> We can as well call it Mozilla club.
04:36:57 <skamath> I have run install fests in my university and we have a *lot* of Fedora users.
04:37:05 <bexelbie[m]> skamath (IRC): is this focused on students as users first and that’s a good outcome?
04:37:34 <skamath> bexelbie[m], In my case, I can only have students as my target, atleast for now.
04:37:40 <GIANT_CRAB> theirs, however, is about something like using their product. For example, Red Hat did a sponsorship for SIA Hackathon -- hackers had to use openshift platform to develop their product and they will be part of list that can win Red Hat's prize IIRC
04:37:41 <skamath> And that worked out pretty well for me.
04:38:00 <GIANT_CRAB> "Mozilla Club" - Ha!
04:38:16 <bexelbie[m]> skamath (IRC): if that’s all you can do then I suggest we do it :)
04:38:42 <skamath> bexelbie[m], I almost finished my college and I'll be out real soon.
04:38:58 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): we could do that too then. Sponsor s prize for using Fedora
04:39:04 <skamath> Pretty sure I can reach out to the general public and developers if we have a solid plan.
04:39:43 <bexelbie[m]> skamath (IRC): not saying this is bad. It’s like what I said to zsun - let’s do what we can realistically accomplish that meets a goal
04:40:05 <GIANT_CRAB> so, I was wondering, what would be the criteria for them to be part of the list? Make something like a plugin for Firefox? A GNOME flatpak app? A website that eases Fedora contributors? Or something easier, like just by using Fedora as their server OS or laptop OS?
04:40:11 <zsun> I believe this is much easier if there are current contributors in campus. I was doing things like that before I graduate. But after I graduated, it is a little more difficult to figure out what the students really want to have
04:40:40 <skamath> bexelbie[m], Sumantro, Siddharth and I are holding a general foss workshop in about a month. It's part of a college tech fest and I am expecting around 100-120 people there. We're planning on using Fedora as the base Linux distribution for the workshop.
04:40:45 <bexelbie[m]> Can we limit the conversation to one topic at a time?
04:41:06 <GIANT_CRAB> sorry!
04:41:11 <skamath> Also planning on a release party :)
04:41:22 * zsun will be afk shortly. Will read the meeting report/logs
04:41:22 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): no worries - I was just getting lost :)
04:41:38 <skamath> bexelbie[m], re : being realistic - ack. This is something I can realistically accomplish.
04:43:11 <bexelbie[m]> Cool. Any challenges/blockers?
04:43:38 <skamath> I don't see any at the moment. We might require a few swag to keep the folks motivated.
04:43:51 <skamath> And apac doesn't have any atm
04:44:15 <bexelbie[m]> Swag is easy to solve
04:44:27 <bexelbie[m]> We can print it and ship it or do some locally
04:44:59 <skamath> Shipping can get expensive. I heard that the custom rules were being changed to me more restrictive :(
04:45:28 <bexelbie[m]> I’m not letting that be a blocker. There are ways to do both. We have people to help us.
04:45:39 <bexelbie[m]> This is a place wheee Red Hat can help us if we need it
04:45:55 <skamath> s/custom/customs
04:46:10 <bexelbie[m]> If we block on shipping vs local print we aren’t focusing on the things they actually matter for Fedora, imho
04:46:24 <bexelbie[m]> Just allow time for things to get gone.
04:46:27 <bexelbie[m]> Done not gone.
04:46:51 <skamath> Sounds good to me. The event is planned for Feb 22 and 23rd and it'd be great to have some in hand before that.
04:47:13 <skamath> I'll look around and see if there are any good local producers.
04:47:28 <bexelbie[m]> Open a ticket. Figure out what you need. Let’s get the design team to finalize a design.
04:47:33 <skamath> bexelbie[m], What swag do you think is ideal for an event like this?
04:47:52 <bexelbie[m]> You have to tell us - you know the audience and India :)
04:48:35 <skamath> I had a talk with the college and they'll be charging a minimal amount (around $5) for infrastructure from the pariticpants.
04:49:02 <bexelbie[m]> Interesting
04:49:07 <bexelbie[m]> Is that normal?
04:49:18 <skamath> And Indians are very particular about certificates for events, so the college will be providing them that.
04:49:27 <skamath> bexelbie[m], It is
04:49:58 <skamath> bexelbie[m], There have been workshops were the participants where charged like 1500 INR for something very basic.
04:50:11 <bexelbie[m]> Ok
04:50:55 <bexelbie[m]> I’ve seen it before in India  as a way of limiting participation to those motivated - I didn’t know if it worked or was normal
04:51:18 <skamath> bexelbie[m], and also profit.
04:51:33 <skamath> bexelbie[m], It usually works out as long as the figures are not huge.
04:51:46 <skamath> People don't seem to mind as long as it is minimal.
04:52:28 <bexelbie[m]> Cool
04:52:52 * bexelbie[m] didn’t meant to rabbit hole on this cost
04:54:44 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): ?
04:55:19 <skamath> eof
04:55:46 <GIANT_CRAB> thanks!
04:55:51 <GIANT_CRAB> I was wondering, what would be the criteria for them to be part of the list? Make something like a plugin for Firefox? A GNOME flatpak app? A website that eases Fedora contributors? Or something easier, like just by using Fedora as their server OS or laptop OS?
04:56:06 <GIANT_CRAB> part of the list that will get selected for the prize
04:56:32 <GIANT_CRAB> and how do we judge if a product/project in the entry list should be the winner of the prize?
04:56:44 <bexelbie[m]> I’d go broad: solutions that use Fedora or help open Source projects.
04:56:55 <bexelbie[m]> We need to be able to award it :D
04:57:06 <bexelbie[m]> So the fall back is “best in show:P”
04:57:30 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, I'd grade it on the following criteria : Relevance to open source, Usefulness, Practicality, and maybe Innovation?
04:57:53 <GIANT_CRAB> something broad mmmm
04:58:08 <skamath> There's probably a better word to replace usefulness.
04:58:19 <GIANT_CRAB> okay, then what should be the prize?
04:58:40 <bexelbie[m]> I don’t think we should be scared to make using Fedora a criteria
04:58:47 <bexelbie[m]> That’s what we want, aiui
04:59:14 <skamath> +1
04:59:18 <bexelbie[m]> Also we will have to modify our goals to work with the them of the event and what the organizers think
04:59:55 <bexelbie[m]> I also believe using Fedora can be “developed on Fedora” or Fedora container base image, etc
04:59:59 <skamath> This sounds like a Mindshare ticket to me,
05:00:18 <bexelbie[m]> skamath (IRC): what would you ask them?
05:00:32 <GIANT_CRAB> Sounds good. Something more broad
05:00:50 <skamath> bexelbie[m], Proper guidelines to run something Fedora specific maybe?
05:01:00 <skamath> Like a hackathon or competition
05:01:10 <GIANT_CRAB> There's various kinds  of prizes -- LulzBot Mini Desktop 3D Printer (1.250), OpenROV v2.8 Kit (900), mooltipass (79), Cubetto Playset (225). Or should we go for something more affordable but still attractive enough?
05:01:11 <bexelbie[m]> Why not develop them by doing events?
05:01:23 <bexelbie[m]> We could spend years developing guidelines in a vacuum
05:01:46 <skamath> nod nod.
05:01:55 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): how important is the event?
05:02:00 <GIANT_CRAB> #action Create a guideline for sponsoring Hackathons
05:02:37 <bexelbie[m]> Do we need guidelines? Why not encourage creative thinking. The tickets will get voted on so r can stop bad ideas
05:03:00 <skamath> bexelbie[m], Is something Fedora specific happening at fosdem apart from the booth?
05:03:10 <bexelbie[m]> We can try to keep our hard rules and bureaucracy to a minimum
05:03:34 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: the government is involved, lots of folks join. I think over a few hundred
05:03:47 <GIANT_CRAB> how do i cancel previous action
05:03:48 <bexelbie[m]> skamath (IRC): Fedora talks in some devrooms. Otherwise, afaik, no
05:03:52 <skamath> We can prepare a questionnaire or a short survey and ask people what they'd like to see and do at a Fedora sponsored hackathon
05:04:16 <skamath> We can ask if they are interested in filling it out in the booth
05:04:49 <bexelbie[m]> Yes. But do you mean a hack we organize and run? Or just one where we have a prize? Those are very different questions
05:05:20 * bexelbie[m] isn’t sure we should organize our own hack-a-thons but I could be convinced
05:05:25 <GIANT_CRAB> The one I was talking about -- It is organized by Harish and a few others from another organization he is involved in.
05:05:30 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): #undi
05:05:32 <bexelbie[m]> Undo
05:05:37 <GIANT_CRAB> #undi
05:05:43 <GIANT_CRAB> #undo
05:05:43 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by GIANT_CRAB at 05:02:00 : Create a guideline for sponsoring Hackathons
05:05:59 <GIANT_CRAB> #action Create ideas and helpers for sponsoring Hackathons
05:06:01 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): then let’s go big of this is the audience and we have a good plan
05:06:15 <bexelbie[m]> Or go smaller if we are experimenting
05:06:53 <skamath> bexelbie[m], hmm - We can start with sponsoring and then maybe, some day, we can have a Fedora exclusive Hackathon.
05:07:08 <skamath> Maybe as part of Flock as a start.
05:07:16 <GIANT_CRAB> that sounds like a good idea skamath +1
05:07:30 <bexelbie[m]> Perhaps
05:07:42 <skamath> Flock is now more action oriented than ever so why not.
05:07:46 <bexelbie[m]> Flock is a very inward facing conference
05:08:03 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]: how 'big' should we go for this codeExtreme sponsorship then?
05:08:07 <bexelbie[m]> Devconf is a better target
05:08:35 <skamath> Oh yes. Devconf definitely sounds better.
05:09:19 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): that’s an APAC decision. I’d want to weigh what we get and what we want to accomplish. I’d want to hear the plan beyond “spend money”
05:11:07 <GIANT_CRAB> So do we measure the accomplishments or is that a terrible idea? (number of events organized, people interested, contributors count, etc?)
05:11:16 <bexelbie[m]> It doesn’t need to be detailed to the last degree and set in stone. I’m
05:11:16 <bexelbie[m]> Happy to help improve it. But it needs to be at least a rough draft
05:11:37 <GIANT_CRAB> Right now, for sure, I think we've been pretty stale.
05:11:39 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): this is a hugely good idea
05:12:02 <bexelbie[m]> Not all measurements are numbers. Remember quantitative and qualitative are both valid :)
05:12:56 <bexelbie[m]> If we don’t reflect on why we did something and what happened we can’t improve it or make better choices. Even if the answer is “ wow. So we aren’t doing that again:)”
05:13:09 <GIANT_CRAB> #action Create goals and accomplishments for APAC region, specific to countries
05:13:24 <bexelbie[m]> A negative results experiment tells us something
05:13:38 <GIANT_CRAB> Yes, post modem
05:13:44 <bexelbie[m]> But we do need a realistic plan
05:13:57 <GIANT_CRAB> We do write a few articles on common ops. Especially skamath
05:14:29 <bexelbie[m]> “I’m going to show those nomadic hunters how to use AWS to build a 100 node openshift cluster” is probably a bad plan :D
05:14:50 <GIANT_CRAB> So how many contributors do we need to achieve this year kinda thing?
05:15:35 <bexelbie[m]> Or even just “we want to grow contributors as defined by the metric” as a start
05:16:01 <bexelbie[m]> Think SMART goals. Done forget A-achievable
05:16:12 <bexelbie[m]> Don’t not done
05:16:55 <skamath> sumantrom[m], o/
05:17:03 <bexelbie[m]> o/
05:17:08 <sumantro> skamath o/ :)
05:17:32 <GIANT_CRAB> #chair sumantro
05:17:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB bexelbie[m] kagesenshi skamath sumantro zsun
05:18:09 * bexelbie[m] is starting to fade :( it’s just after 6 am here
05:19:02 <skamath> (and a Sunday :P)
05:19:05 <sumantro> bexelbie[m], o/
05:21:38 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmmm
05:24:35 <bexelbie[m]> But this is a valuable use of my time, for sure:):)
05:25:25 <GIANT_CRAB> okay, I've a few more things in mind I would like to discuss
05:25:32 <GIANT_CRAB> does anyone else want to take the floor first?
05:25:50 <sumantro> GIANT_CRAB, you take then I will :)
05:25:58 <skamath> bexelbie[m], Also, what's your take on India requiring CLA+1 for ambassadors?
05:26:25 <skamath> This is something that was there for limiting contributors coming in just for the sake of it.
05:26:35 <GIANT_CRAB> skamath goes first then
05:27:21 <bexelbie[m]> I believe that it’s be great if ambassadors were active (or has a history) in more areas than just ambassadors
05:28:13 <bexelbie[m]> It’s hard to talk about something you don’t know well
05:28:17 <bexelbie[m]> Doc
05:28:19 <bexelbie[m]> Eof
05:28:52 <GIANT_CRAB> I'm going mobile (lunch)
05:28:54 <skamath> Ack. I guess we will just have a Fedora India meeting and figure it out :)
05:29:27 <sumantro> skamath, that is what we need and we will do it soon
05:29:31 <bexelbie[m]> Actually I’ll add that I don’t think it is a bad thing to expect people to be active and to even ask what they’ve been doing if it isn’t obvious.
05:29:41 <bexelbie[m]> I realize that is not a popular view
05:30:00 <skamath> bexelbie[m], Best is not always popular ;)
05:30:22 <bexelbie[m]> I look at it as “make it work for all”
05:30:48 <bexelbie[m]> If we don’t know who is active we might block a vote in APAC waiting for input from people who aren’t there
05:31:11 <bexelbie[m]> I don’t want to hunt for reasons to “kick people out” I just want to know who is here
05:31:11 <GIANT_CRAB> Then there would be folks that say that Fedora is a voluntary commitment?
05:31:17 <skamath> If I understand the word ambassador right, it requires the contributor to have a decent working knowledge of the project.
05:31:39 <skamath> And it's very reasonable to ask for a CLA +1
05:31:54 <skamath> It's very minimum, imho.
05:31:55 <bexelbie[m]> I had a reason to email about 40 ambassadors in 3 countries who are listed as points of contact. I got 3 replies over a 6 month period
05:32:10 <skamath> :(
05:32:23 <GIANT_CRAB> That sounds /not very timely/
05:32:36 <skamath> And aweful.
05:32:39 <bexelbie[m]> If we were voting and wanted to know what was going on in those countries we’re going to wait a long time
05:32:55 <bexelbie[m]> So cla+1 and be active is a good guideline.
05:33:24 <bexelbie[m]> Don’t make it harder than necessary to join, or to be naked inactive, or to deactivate or reactivate yourself.
05:33:53 <GIANT_CRAB> Tbh, there were no events in SG for 2017. Because I was very busy for my last year (overseas internship, etc)
05:34:08 <bexelbie[m]> Ask people what they plan. So if someone says “I can only help in February’s” we know not to be upset in September
05:34:09 <sumantro> [OT]can we have a year in review post of 2017 APAC to understand the pulse? that might help others to also get motivated about the activities going on?
05:35:05 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): and there reasonable. $life, $family and $dayjob are all real and may be different levels of priority at any  time
05:35:22 <bexelbie[m]> There = that’s
05:36:14 <bexelbie[m]> By sheer coincidence I know two people who both lost a grandmother right after New Years. Their plans changed fast. They told people and everyone did the right thing.
05:36:17 <GIANT_CRAB> However, I do think that replying an email shouldnt take more than a week
05:36:21 <bexelbie[m]> Fedora can be the same way
05:36:37 <GIANT_CRAB> Mmmm
05:36:43 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): or, if you don’t want to be mailed - don’t put your name on that list :)
05:37:00 <GIANT_CRAB> Right, or that too.
05:37:24 <bexelbie[m]> I assume every ambassador wants to be a point of contact and to followup. That may not be how they feel about it though.
05:37:25 <GIANT_CRAB> So what would be the conclusion for the CLA+1?
05:37:42 <bexelbie[m]> We were talking about follow up earlier so it is a good question.
05:37:50 * bexelbie[m] stops rabbit hiking
05:37:57 <bexelbie[m]> Holing
05:38:06 <GIANT_CRAB> Maybe we do an availability calendar? Or is that a bad idea?
05:38:18 <bexelbie[m]> Rabbit hiking sounds very hard on the knees :D
05:38:49 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): if we need one. Let’s do it. Let’s only solve this problem if it is a problem.
05:38:59 <bexelbie[m]> We already have a vacation calendar
05:39:08 <GIANT_CRAB> Oh, we do?
05:39:25 <GIANT_CRAB> I feel very out of touch
05:39:34 <skamath> Oh yes and a zodbot command to see people on vacation
05:39:36 <skamath> .vacation
05:39:37 <zodbot> skamath: The following people are on vacation: smooge
05:39:40 <zodbot> skamath: - https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/vacation/
05:39:41 <bexelbie[m]> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/vacation/
05:39:47 <bexelbie[m]> Jinx
05:39:56 <skamath> zodbot beats bexelbie[m] to it.
05:39:59 <skamath> zodbot++
05:40:20 <bexelbie[m]> What we might need is a simple document to make sure people know about these things :)
05:40:25 <GIANT_CRAB> #link https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/vacation/
05:40:53 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, all the links posted in a meeting are auto #linked if you didn't know ;)
05:40:55 <GIANT_CRAB> #info vacation calendar to state non-availability
05:41:18 <GIANT_CRAB> skamath: ah
05:42:06 <bexelbie[m]> skamath (IRC): I didn’t know that - cool
05:42:23 <GIANT_CRAB> My current “dayjob” is serving my country and this requires me to stay in camp thru weekdays
05:42:57 <GIANT_CRAB> What about the rest?
05:43:15 <GIANT_CRAB> I know zsun is part of red hat kernel team in china. Very busy
05:43:46 <bexelbie[m]> Part of my job is to help Fedora in meetings like this
05:44:27 <bexelbie[m]> That’s why I keep saying things like central swag.
05:44:31 <sumantro> I work for Red Hat in Fedora QA team
05:45:55 <bexelbie[m]> People have limited hours. If someone has 5 hours a week to devote to Fedora, they probably shouldn’t spend  them figuring out how to print shirts and then not be able to have time to actually plan the event. Unless their contribution goal was to print shirts to help others.
05:47:18 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie[m]++
05:48:01 <sumantro> bexelbie[m], I can help with a vendor at redhat bangalore who can help out with the tshirts and stickers. the question is , if its at all possible to ship swags from RHT BLR to the nearest RHT office of lets say china [zsun] and so and so forth?
05:49:02 <bexelbie[m]> Exactly. We can solve those issues. I’d suggest we take them on outside of this meeting and keep this focused
05:49:32 <sumantrom[m]> sure,  skamath and me will mail you with this.
05:51:39 <GIANT_CRAB> Alrighty
05:52:19 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic Support, peg or organize
05:53:31 <GIANT_CRAB> I was wondering if it would be meaningful to discuss whether our events for this year should be supporting other communities, pegging on top of other events or organizing our own events?
05:53:59 <GIANT_CRAB> And which do u think would be more effective?
05:55:22 <bexelbie[m]> I don’t think there is an answer. I think all three can be great and all three can be bad. Do we need a guideline here or can we do what’s best for the event, goal and location?
05:56:41 <sumantro> maybe an SOP for hosting any of these three kinds of events will be good. so that people follow those while they are doing one.
05:58:24 <bexelbie[m]> I can see “hints and tips” but I’m not sure we have the people power to write an not vague SOO
05:58:27 <bexelbie[m]> Sop
05:58:40 <GIANT_CRAB> So what would be better in which scenarios?
05:58:48 <GIANT_CRAB> +1 for hints and tips
05:59:25 <sumantrom[m]> tips and tricks will be awesome
05:59:28 <GIANT_CRAB> #action create a wiki for hints/tips for events (support, peg, organize)
06:00:07 <sumantrom[m]> [patch] share it on the ML where people can also keep contributing to it and make it better
06:00:58 * skamath is going afk for a while
06:01:09 <GIANT_CRAB> For eg, we did a DFD in 2016. It was considerably successful, quite a number of attendees. DFD isnt our Fedora event but rather, document freedom’s and we took on the event
06:01:20 <GIANT_CRAB> ML?
06:01:30 <skamath> GIANT_CRAB, Mailing List.
06:01:40 <GIANT_CRAB> Oh!
06:02:16 <bexelbie[m]> GIANT_CRAB (IRC): sounds this was good if you accomplished your goal
06:03:37 * bexelbie[m] is falling asleep. I’m sorry, but I need to drop. I’ll followup to the emailed minutes or here
06:04:08 <GIANT_CRAB> Alright, thanks!
06:04:19 <skamath> bexelbie++ Thanks for joining :)
06:04:19 <zodbot> skamath: Karma for bex changed to 9 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
06:04:23 <bexelbie[m]> Thank you all
06:04:24 <GIANT_CRAB> Any other pointers?
06:04:31 <sumantrom[m]> bexelbie: good night :)
06:04:34 <GIANT_CRAB> Bexelbie++
06:04:59 <GIANT_CRAB> bexelbie++ thanks for joining!
06:04:59 <zodbot> GIANT_CRAB: Karma for bex changed to 10 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
06:05:49 <GIANT_CRAB> #topic open floor
06:06:29 <skamath> #action skamath/sumantro plan for a Indian Ambassadors meeting
06:08:58 <sumantrom[m]> do you people think having an year in review post will help to understand what all activities happened?
06:09:57 <GIANT_CRAB> Just for APAC?
06:10:10 <GIANT_CRAB> I think an internal one would be awesome for us to think through
06:10:12 <sumantrom[m]> yes just APAC
06:10:23 <sumantrom[m]> like they have one for NA
06:10:53 <GIANT_CRAB> On common ops?
06:11:37 <GIANT_CRAB> Hmmm, might look a little awful though, because not all countries in APAC had activity in 2017
06:11:53 <GIANT_CRAB> I would go for an internal one
06:12:16 <sumantro> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/ambassadors-latam-year-in-review/ GIANT_CRAB like one
06:12:45 <sumantro> yes I am up for an internal one or an wiki maybe that will be helpful
06:13:36 <GIANT_CRAB> +1
06:13:47 <GIANT_CRAB> I think it really helps
06:14:48 <sumantro> siddharthvipul, is a new ambassador and he is willing to be a storyteller for the region, he can start by writing this
06:14:55 <GIANT_CRAB> We’ll be able to better observe and understand the activity we had in 2017 — which country had most activity (and I think its obviously India), how did yall achieve your goals, etc. What events were good, what were not
06:15:17 <GIANT_CRAB> Hmmmm, storyteller is related to finance, though?
06:15:56 <GIANT_CRAB> Usually storyteller roles are held by more experienced ones since its related to finance? Would be good to have him learn?
06:16:19 <GIANT_CRAB> Please correct me if i am wrong
06:17:32 <sumantro> a part of the role, but yes the primary goal is to paint a picture of activities in fedora region to other regions. he is working at redhat on fedora qa team and yes it will great for him to learn on the role too
06:18:03 <GIANT_CRAB> Mmmm I see
06:18:20 <GIANT_CRAB> I would be happy to help if theres anything I can assist with?
06:20:57 <sumantro> he will mostly require some data from of events you have been a part of ..
06:21:01 <sumantro> siddharthvipul, ping
06:21:01 <zodbot> sumantro: Ping with data, please: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_naked_pings
06:21:51 <siddharthvipul> GIANT_CRAB, hey :)
06:24:22 <GIANT_CRAB> hello siddharthvipul
06:24:27 <GIANT_CRAB> #chair siddharthvipul
06:24:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB bexelbie[m] kagesenshi siddharthvipul skamath sumantro zsun
06:24:37 <GIANT_CRAB> oh, chaired already
06:24:45 <siddharthvipul> sumantro, thanks :).. yes! to write a proper report, I will need a few pictures, a little about the event, topics discussed and audience details (no of participants, their reaction etc)
06:26:11 <GIANT_CRAB> Alright!
06:26:22 <GIANT_CRAB> siddharthvipul1: can you action yourself on this one please?
06:26:24 <GIANT_CRAB> Thanks!
06:26:34 <GIANT_CRAB> siddharthvipul1++
06:26:34 <zodbot> GIANT_CRAB: Karma for siddharthvipul1 changed to 3 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
06:27:36 <sumantrom[m]> #action siddharthvipul  to write a year in review for Fedora APAC after taking datapoints from all Ambassdors
06:27:58 * siddharthvipul1 siddharthvipul1 to write a year in review for Fedora APAC
06:28:31 <siddharthvipul1> oh sorry sumantrom[m] and thanks again :)
06:30:25 <GIANT_CRAB> alright, anything else?
06:30:29 <GIANT_CRAB> open floor
06:30:42 <GIANT_CRAB> difficulties, issues, things u would like to see for 2018
06:30:51 <GIANT_CRAB> your goals for Fedora?
06:31:29 <siddharthvipul1> Hey, as you asked, I am planning a dev-sprint (open source contribution) on Feb 3rd
06:31:40 <siddharthvipul1> Is it possible to get a mentor from Fedora?
06:31:59 <siddharthvipul1> I guess Fedora India mailing list would be more suitable, but just asked
06:32:49 <sumantrom[m]> yes so you can also put it to classroom list adn see if anyone is willing to volunteer if its not in person .. else stick to fedora india
06:33:06 <siddharthvipul1> there will be around 70 students and their goal would be to contribute to am open source project, also, before starting that, we are also having an Fedora install fest
06:34:54 <sumantro> okay I will write up the install fest guideline soon ,lets see how that goes
06:35:08 <GIANT_CRAB> is there anything I can assist with for this event?
06:35:27 <siddharthvipul1> In the university's Linux user group, we use Fedora.. Most of them are already using Fedora, so we will be installing it in around 20-30 systems that's all
06:35:54 <siddharthvipul1> GIANT_CRAB, I wanted to know if their is any specific guidelines that I should follow, but sumantro answered that :)
06:36:09 <GIANT_CRAB> mmmm
06:40:42 <GIANT_CRAB> Anything else?
06:40:52 <GIANT_CRAB> kagesenshi: kagesenshi_
06:42:52 <siddharthvipul1> mm.. so how do I contact people for information regarding their organized events?
06:43:44 <siddharthvipul1> Should I send a mail in Fedora APAC?
06:44:53 <GIANT_CRAB> yes please, the mailing list
06:46:21 <siddharthvipul1> thanks :)
06:46:41 <siddharthvipul1> GIANT_CRAB++
06:46:41 <zodbot> siddharthvipul1: Karma for woohuiren changed to 2 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
06:47:05 <GIANT_CRAB> apac@lists.fedoraproject.org
06:47:31 <GIANT_CRAB> otherwise, you can also open an issue on pagure
06:48:07 <GIANT_CRAB> I would open an issue and wait awhile before personally emailing the ambassadors in APAC
06:51:01 <GIANT_CRAB> If there's nothing else, I guess the floor will be left open for awhile more before I end the meeting
06:51:44 <sumantrom[m]> GIANT_CRAB: thanks for holding the meeting!
06:52:29 <siddharthvipul1> GIANT_CRAB, I will open an issue first then
06:52:52 <sumantro> GIANT_CRAB++
06:52:52 <zodbot> sumantro: Karma for woohuiren changed to 3 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
06:54:26 <GIANT_CRAB> Thank you all for attending!
06:59:47 <GIANT_CRAB> 3...
06:59:50 <GIANT_CRAB> 2...
06:59:53 <GIANT_CRAB> 1...
06:59:58 <GIANT_CRAB> #endmeeting