14:31:07 <spevack> #startmeeting
14:31:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jan 29 14:31:07 2010 UTC.  The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:31:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:31:17 <spevack> #topic https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010
14:31:31 <spevack> Getting started in the next few minutes
14:31:49 <loupgaroublond> cool :)
14:34:17 <spevack> So, we've got two IRC channels that we're using for this FAD #fad and #fedora-fad
14:34:23 <spevack> #fad is going to be our primary home, and the place where the FUDCon track is happening.
14:34:27 <spevack> #fedora-fad will be where the folks working on FUDCon Live end up
14:34:35 <spevack> We're about to get started with some general information and setting up the day then at around :00 we'll be splitting into our two tracks
14:34:50 <spevack> So please go lurk in both channels, and we'll be doing stuff in #fad until :00
14:35:24 * loupgaroublond lurks
14:35:28 <loupgaroublond> yeth mathter?
14:50:38 <herlo> oh hai!
14:52:28 <jds2001> .addchair #fedora-fad freenode jds2001
14:52:28 <zodbot> jds2001: Chair added: jds2001 on (#fedora-fad, freenode).
14:52:36 <loupgaroublond> i is in your channal liveing yur fad
14:53:19 <jds2001> #chair ctyler dgilmore herlo ke4qqq loupgaroublond mchua spevack stickster
14:53:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler dgilmore herlo jds2001 ke4qqq loupgaroublond mchua spevack stickster
14:53:31 <stickster> jds2001: Awesome, thank you sir
14:53:57 <spevack> we're still all congregated in #fad
15:40:08 <spevack> we're still all congregated in #fad
15:51:57 * stickster wondering if we're a little channel-heavy
15:52:29 <loupgaroublond> how do you mean?
15:53:00 <mchua> I think we'll need the multiple channels after we plan out the day - the freeseer hacking in the freeseer channel, the other fudcon live stuff in the #fad channel, other stuff in this channel
15:54:04 <loupgaroublond> at least we don't have to monitor ten channels this time
15:54:08 <spevack> I thought we'd need this second channel for all freeseer related stuff.  Maybe we won't in the end.
15:54:34 <spevack> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2010-January/000517.html
15:54:36 <loupgaroublond> one more argument for fewer simul tracks
15:55:22 <loupgaroublond> spevack, +1 but for now, i think this system works
15:55:50 <loupgaroublond> #action decide on how to implement redirects and implement them by the end of the day
15:56:26 <loupgaroublond> #link what is the deal with redirects http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2010-January/000517.html
15:56:39 <loupgaroublond> now it's official
15:57:54 <mchua> spevack: did someone ever tell the list the final list of channels?
15:58:29 <mchua> spevack: it's... this one for FUDCon 2.0, #fad for FUDCon Live, and #freeseer for the obvious, right?
15:58:35 <spevack> mchua: i'm doing that now
16:00:28 <mchua> spevack: okeydokey, thanks! *jumps back to freeseer*
16:23:26 <stickster> mchua: I think the channels are the other way around
16:24:14 <mchua> whatever spevack emailed out the channels are, is what the channels are.
16:29:23 <herlo> whee!
16:29:42 <jds2001> clint expects someone to be in his room every hour
16:39:51 <stickster> There's a short downtime right now while we are reorganizing... herlo managing one room for freeseer/FUDCon Live, spevack will be managing this one for FUDCon 2.0
16:42:53 <mchua> There's some stuff on the board that I'm trying to transcribe.
16:44:23 * ke4qqq begins transcribing
16:44:34 <mchua> thanks ke4qqq - I'm trying to get the whiteboards on the wiki.
16:44:45 <ke4qqq> Max: budget constraint is that we want to spread out over the year.
16:45:00 <ke4qqq> Max: wrinkle - all fudcons dont cost the same amount of money
16:45:38 <ke4qqq> Max: FADs exist to fill in the gaps - EC2/Amazon example. High value, but less money than a fudcon
16:45:46 <ke4qqq> Max: people always bitch about the climate
16:45:54 <ke4qqq> Max: regardless of their location
16:46:10 <ke4qqq> Max: big feedback from EMEA is that we should schedule during vacation time
16:46:44 <ke4qqq> Max: don't pick a stupid city no one wants to go to - pick a nice city, and a nice hotel. negotiate with hotel to let us stay longer to let us do fudcon + family stuff
16:47:14 <ke4qqq> Max: but we don't want to make everyone think this is nothing more than a party
16:47:56 <ke4qqq> Max: other issue is proximity to another big event in the region.
16:48:43 <ke4qqq> Chris: why not append to another event
16:49:10 <ke4qqq> Max: worried about taking people away from their life for a long time - exhausted by end of $events
16:49:29 <ke4qqq> Max: no real plan or stability for people to schedule around.
16:50:12 <ke4qqq> Max: created matrix of fudcons and fads going back to 2005 - (mchua is transcribing)
16:50:18 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon#FUDCon_calendar
16:50:21 <mchua> it is a matrix of events!
16:50:24 <mchua> that is the whiteboard right now.
16:51:06 * mchua edits https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#Friday_January_29 to link that in, for visitors to page
16:52:32 <ke4qqq> Max: emea wants a fudcon in the summer month. Zurich and Milan are two cities being pushed for the event.
16:52:44 <ke4qqq> Max: switzerland is sooooo expensive - food is 2x
16:53:44 * mchua continuing to transcribe whiteboards to various wikis
16:53:49 <ke4qqq> Max: first worry: I don't want to decide myself where EMEA is going to have it.
16:54:28 <ke4qqq> Paul: ok for someone to evaluate the 'bids'
16:54:43 <ke4qqq> Paul: fudcon planning list is transparent
16:55:20 <ke4qqq> Paul: pontificating that $event is at $location seems opaque
16:55:30 <ke4qqq> so transparency
16:56:08 <ke4qqq> in a bid process might give context.
16:57:11 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design
16:57:27 <mchua> Michael Cunningham has just stopped by to say hello, and is giving ETHICS FRISBEES!!! to everyone.
16:58:34 <inode0> is that a hint?
16:59:26 <ke4qqq> discussion is on RFP
17:00:19 <ke4qqq> Max: with info that Chris brought for fudcon toronto is enough - barrier is low enough, yet still fair.
17:01:00 <ke4qqq> chris: we should shortlist and then offer to community
17:01:12 <ke4qqq> Max: wiki page that started to have some of this listed
17:01:24 <stickster> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations
17:01:55 <ke4qqq> everyone looking at above page
17:03:15 * ke4qqq asked if the assumption was that the comm was going to pick up more and more responsibility for fudcon
17:03:39 <mchua> (Michael Cunningham is now gone, he just stopped by for a moment.)
17:04:01 * mchua has just dumped our freeseer sprinting schedule on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#Friday_2 for those who are in Raleigh and pairing with Clint.
17:04:42 <ke4qqq> Max: isn't worried that we'll have to turn away fads - but we can't have multiple fudcons in a short period, and I worry that someone who starts the legwork and then gets rejected leaves with a bad taste in their mouth
17:05:19 * ke4qqq asked Chris to outline his time investment for fudcon toronto proposal
17:07:52 <ke4qqq> fudcon is different than other conferences because community drives content - and all that's needed is logistics
17:07:58 <inode0> if it won't be open bidding what is changing?
17:08:26 <mchua> inode0: I think we're trying to understand what the current process is.
17:08:32 <inode0> or can there be open bidding without a huge legwork investment
17:08:39 <mchua> we sorta did it all by the seat of our pants, looking back now.
17:09:05 * ke4qqq asked "whats broken"
17:10:15 <ke4qqq> Max: what I found to be broken is outside of NA fudcons because we try to place such an emphasis on technical hackfests people walk away disappointed, with the exception of brno, and berlin last year
17:10:34 <ke4qqq> that's why in my mind the bugs are:
17:10:41 <ke4qqq> 1. the process by how we decide where
17:10:41 <jds2001> berlin had a three hour configuriation mgmt track
17:10:54 <ke4qqq> 2. what format it takes (and if it stays the same across the world)
17:11:00 <jds2001> and brno had lots of technical sessions, but was very RHT focused.
17:11:44 <ke4qqq> Paul: not knowing calendar in advance is a problem for determining location
17:12:00 <ke4qqq> Max: 2010 - folks in india want a fudcon
17:12:14 <ke4qqq> Max: and it should be in Q2 and Q3
17:12:41 <ke4qqq> no fudcon for q1 2010
17:12:56 <jds2001> but there should be one in the future - FY11 and beyond
17:14:18 <ke4qqq> Paul: LATAM is talking about splitting costs fo Q2 and Q3 - let india have smack dab in midst of q3, emea costs spread between q1 and q2
17:14:30 <jds2001> Q4 is the expected NA timeframe.
17:14:35 <jds2001> it should remain that way.
17:15:00 <jds2001> easier for Engineering to ask for extra budget in
17:15:02 <jds2001> Q4
17:15:11 <ke4qqq> as less competitiong for funds
17:16:27 <jds2001> Proposed schedule - Q1 APAC, Q2 EMEA, Q3 LATAM, Q4 NA
17:16:57 <ke4qqq> Paul: Paul Gamp is one of the VP in RHT who owns the Eng. Svcs. Component.
17:17:29 <ke4qqq> that is the group that provides content services and other stuff - and is located in Brisbane
17:18:19 <ke4qqq> spot and I recently visited there - we attended some workgroup meeings for l10n - Paul Gamp wants to increase Fedora's visibility in Australia and Pacific
17:19:01 <ke4qqq> ke4qqq: visibility is a problem there - for instance 4 chinese ambassadors, while brazil has 45.
17:19:52 <ke4qqq> Paul Gamps suggestion is that he has ties to a local uni in queensland - had a meeting with a marketing group
17:20:22 <ke4qqq> they are funded to bring cons to brisbane to make it a central place for business etc
17:20:52 <ke4qqq> Paul Gamps has also been working with QUT to get funding/support/facilities in Australia to grow visibility
17:21:32 <ke4qqq> we can't ship 40 people to AUS to achieve the same type of fudcon as we have in NA
17:21:52 <ke4qqq> but we need to provide some support, and help them be successful
17:22:06 <ke4qqq> Paul Gamp is thinking late 2010, early 2011
17:22:54 * mchua rejoins conversation after getting multiple remote participation streams on wiki and synced up
17:22:57 * mchua reads up
17:23:28 * mchua caught up now - thanks for transcribing, ke4qqq... this let me sort of keep up with the auditory flow while typing in 7 different places.
17:23:28 <ke4qqq> Paul: where we haven't filled in the blanks is how do we make that conference workable for contributors to china, singapore, etc.
17:23:52 <ke4qqq> mchua: feel like I am not quite doing it justice, but glad I can help
17:24:21 <ke4qqq> Paul: making it an APAC event will be hard
17:25:04 <ke4qqq> Mel: how did fudcons start
17:25:16 <ke4qqq> Max: first one had 2 dozen people
17:26:04 <mchua> david: this goes back to expectations of what a fudcon is.
17:27:26 <ke4qqq> Paul: in Brisbane we have a concentration of people who do freedesktop/nouveau etc.
17:27:44 <ke4qqq> Paul: possibility of tying to free software gaming event
17:29:28 <ke4qqq> Paul: we have developers that are very deep in software stack for stuff important to gaming
17:30:29 <mchua> david: are you inferring that we should be thinking about transferring ownership of fudcon?
17:30:45 <mchua> max: vision: regional ownership in conjunction with rh community folks who pay attention to that region?
17:31:11 <mchua> steven: do we have someone in each region from rh commarch?
17:31:31 <mchua> max: sorta, I was in emea and there's still jan there, we have some folks from india/sgp in apac, rodrigo works for latam...
17:31:52 <mchua> in some cases it's a specific part of their job, and in other cases it's not.
17:32:25 <mchua> And emea is sad because I don't have as much time for them now as I did in Amsterdam.
17:32:36 <mchua> ke4qqq: I'll take over transcribing for a while
17:32:42 <ke4qqq> mchua: thanks
17:32:53 <mchua> max: but I want them to solve their own problems, and the same applies to everyone.
17:33:17 <mchua> david: I got the impression that emea was more independent than na, and that was actually good for them.
17:33:38 <mchua> max: they don't want rh people to tell them what to do, but they want rh people to show up at their stuff.
17:33:42 <mchua> and that's fair.
17:34:36 <mchua> paul: we need a repeatable process so that when that leadership changes over time, they know what they're signing on for.
17:34:50 <mchua> steven: do we not want other sponsorship for events?
17:35:02 <mchua> paul: it's not that we don't want it, it's just that we've never had it / found it.
17:35:11 <mchua> we've never tried to pursue it with the expectation that if we don't get sponsorship this isn't going ot happen.
17:35:18 <mchua> and I think that's a good attitude to have.
17:35:30 <mchua> maybe it's a remnant of the "fudcon is a gift from rh to the community" mindset.
17:35:40 <mchua> and maybe we want to keep on underwriting it.
17:35:48 <mchua> at the same time, if peple find other sponsorships for fudcon, that's great.
17:36:30 <mchua> david: I talked with potential sponsors for the last fudcon, and they seemed ok with wiring money to us, but they didn't want to be involved with planning and stuff.
17:36:33 <mchua> we have no good way of doing that.
17:36:44 <mchua> paul: we've always made it possible for people to wire money.
17:36:50 <mchua> paul: just pay $this_bill for us.
17:37:03 <mchua> david: well, no, think about if someone wanted to sponsor FUDpub.
17:37:12 <mchua> they have to contact us, we'd get them in touch with the pub, etc etc.
17:37:14 <mchua> that's so much work
17:37:50 <mchua> paul: so how do we make that possible?
17:38:41 <mchua> david: I've gotten money from google before, and I imagine this is true of everyone.
17:38:55 <mchua> they don't care about names on tshirts, they don't care about booth at conference... they care about different things.
17:38:59 <mchua> for us (SELF) they cared about GSoC.
17:39:33 <mchua> in general, we need to ask sponsors what they /are/ interested in from us.
17:40:33 <mchua> <discussion on why setting up a fedora nonprofit is not feasible>
17:43:59 <stickster> david: explaining how payments happen from a company
17:44:30 <stickster> mel asked why we can't just have a company pay a bill, and david explains why that's usually difficult and causes a time lag that makes vendors unhappy, thus not a good option
17:46:10 <stickster> max explains some internal Red Hat processes and machinations to get things paid properly
17:46:48 <stickster> smparrish: Would a prepaid card solve these problems?
17:47:22 <stickster> max: This may be a possibility, and I'm going to pursue that following this FAD.
17:47:27 <mchua> stickster: I got it again
17:47:36 <stickster> #action spevack will pursue prepaid cards with RH Finance
17:48:30 <mchua> paul: there's been an ongoing monologue where I try to talk with folks about finding a way to put $ in the hands of community members.
17:48:47 <mchua> david: what are the tax implications?
17:48:53 <mchua> paul: that's one of the problems. taxes, legal complications...
17:49:03 <mchua> max: we don't want to make community members sign lots of stuff.
17:49:23 <mchua> paul: community members want to be accountable for stuff - but when you dump paperwork on someone, it feels like we don't trust them.
17:49:44 <mchua> so we (rh employees) have taken on that gruntwork, paperwork, accountability - because we want to shield you guys from that crap
17:50:04 <mchua> if we send someone a debit card, someone has to be accountable to RH for that money being spent.
17:50:13 <mchua> (gregdek has entered, and is manstylin' today)
17:50:48 <mchua> david: what about the possibility of (even if their name changes) of using fedora emea as a place to handle the $$ problem?
17:50:51 <mchua> max: it's been discussed
17:51:02 * mchua notes the time
17:52:00 <mchua> mel: (about to say this in irl, but) what do we need to do to figure out the big calendar on the board?
17:52:08 <mchua> because that seems like a dependency for lots of other things.
17:52:21 <mchua> (and even if it isn't a dependency for funding, it may help us think about it.)
17:52:48 <mchua> greg: we seem to keep coming back to this 'nonprofit' issue.
17:52:58 <mchua> the goal of a nonprofit is to act as a neutral org to collect funds.
17:53:04 <mchua> fund collection, while useful, will not always be worth the overhead.
17:53:35 <mchua> no reason why we can't simply do business with any entities that want to do it.
17:53:53 <mchua> nonprofits take a lot of overhead; I learned this the hard way.
17:54:41 <mchua> paul: we're trying to find a way to do things that won't send rh finance to max's office with a machine gun.
17:55:02 <mchua> sending out reward cards, etc.
17:55:49 <mchua> max: food is here
17:55:56 <mchua> after lunch I'd like to figure out the calendar.
17:56:03 * inode0 runs to UPS to spend a little of someone else's money shipping swag ... biab
17:56:09 <stickster> inode0: woowoo
17:56:22 <mchua> (since max said it, I don't have to. :))
17:57:57 <stickster> #action ke4qqq volunteers to write draft of bid process for tomorrow
17:58:42 <mchua> After lunch, while Paul is in FUDCon Live land, we're going to set the calendar.
18:01:13 <mchua> #topic food interlude
18:14:00 * inode0 tries to get warm again
18:14:25 <mchua> (food interlude will end at 2pm est, in approx 50min)
18:15:05 * inode0 turns up the music and waits patiently
18:17:38 * laubersm wonders if it is snowing in raleigh yet...
18:17:54 * laubersm just got text message that flight to RDU tomorrow has been cancelled
18:18:39 * laubersm really wanted to go home for one night between trips...
18:18:40 <laubersm> sigh
18:23:26 * ctyler starts being the logger
18:23:54 <ctyler> current discussion is about timing of FUDCons
18:24:33 <ctyler> herlo suggests that he prefers not-Dec/Jan/Fed for NA FUDCon, due to the weather
18:25:06 <inode0> I think most people as attendees would prefer spring
18:25:39 <inode0> after being stuck for two days coming home from Toronto in another state I know I would
18:26:31 <herlo> inode0: yes, probably just shifting everything we have up here by one quarter, would work...
18:26:59 <laubersm> thanksgiving through the new year is a bad time to get US folks to give up a weekend.
18:27:11 <laubersm> tooo much other traveling and family obligations
18:27:31 * inode0 was thinking more after the spring release
18:30:52 <mchua> Who's a channel mod? spevack? instructions on redirects are here: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2010-January/000524.html
18:31:18 * nirik could set that up if given perms. Not sure I have +f in the needed channels.
18:32:55 <nirik> herlo: if you get a chance, can you '/cs access #fad nirik +votsriRfA" ? :)
18:33:20 <herlo> nirik: am I an op in there?
18:33:29 <nirik> herlo: you founded the channel apparently. ;)
18:33:36 <herlo> oh, look I am
18:33:39 <herlo> :)
18:34:48 <ctyler> discussion: should a FUDCon follow a release, or preceed it, aiming at the following release?
18:35:23 <ctyler> what if it was a month before release, 10 weeks ahead of feature freeze instead of 4-6 weeks?
18:36:17 <ctyler> stickster thinks that looking at a farther horizon might have value
18:36:20 <herlo> nirik: done
18:36:42 <ctyler> max suggests value in a longer-term strategy that would cover multiple releases
18:40:08 <ctyler> break for 25 minutes, mark up the post it notes to note which "What is a good FUDcon?" answers have the most value.
19:08:32 <ctyler> we're back
19:08:41 <mchua> #topic FUDCon discussion
19:08:45 <ctyler> Not Open Questions:
19:08:51 <ctyler> - 1 FUDCon/quarter
19:09:07 <ctyler> - $20K/quarter for FUDcon+FADs
19:09:18 <ctyler> - 4+ months advance planning, recommend 6 months
19:09:38 <ctyler> - 10-15 hours/week 3 months ahead, 25 hours/week 1 month ahead
19:10:10 <ctyler> The "What is a good FUDcon?" answers have been categorized.
19:11:01 <ctyler> Question: What if there are no bids for a FUDcon for a particular quarter?
19:11:14 <ctyler> Max: we could use if for more FADs
19:11:38 * mchua transcribing categorizations of notes onto https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design
19:12:03 <ctyler> We have identified some places where we have a dearth of activity, what about holding a FAD there?
19:13:36 <ctyler> Could we make a FAD that's more FUDcon-like?
19:13:45 <ctyler> social++, looser focus
19:14:05 <ctyler> Open questions:
19:14:19 <ctyler> - Not Europe for EMEA FUDcon?
19:14:37 <ctyler> - India on its own (split out from APAC)
19:14:49 <ctyler> ^ Rest of APAC
19:15:56 * nirik points again to fudcon/fad Las Vegas. ;)
19:16:02 * mchua likes that
19:20:56 * inode0 suggests FUDCon cruise to Alaska
19:22:32 <ctyler> A bit more topic-prioritization-via-PostIts taking place
19:22:50 <ctyler> so far, Ponies! seems to be receiving the most votes
19:22:54 <mchua> So if you're remote, scroll back to the beginning of today's log (I'll find the link in a moment)
19:23:01 <mchua> and call out points you think are particularly interesting.
19:24:38 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#A_note_on_remote_participation
19:24:41 <mchua> the log is there
19:26:57 * nirik votes against ponies... hard to clean up after, no space to keep them, feeding and ongoing maint would be difficult. ;)
19:27:16 * inode0 wants ponies to stay in #centos
19:29:53 * inode0 isn't sure what link he supposed to be reviewing or for what
19:30:39 <ctyler> we're going to go category-by-category
19:31:08 <ctyler> categories we have so far is social / regional / logistics / comfort / participation day-of / content
19:32:45 <ctyler> we're starting with the comfort section, because ponies received the most votes
19:32:46 <mchua> we also have two discussion topics - bid process (david) and accessibility (me)
19:33:13 <mchua> #topic comfort
19:33:20 <ctyler> - topics include transportation, food to start the day, family-friendly, think about the weather, accessibility, ponies
19:33:28 <ctyler> max heartlessly sets ponies aside
19:33:42 <ctyler> except to say that on his last day, he's expensing a pony
19:33:45 * mchua loves ctyler's transcription-commentary
19:34:00 <mchua> even if it makes me almost choke on water and/or granola bar every few seconds
19:34:11 <ctyler> weather ties into the Bid Process
19:34:22 <ctyler> herlo is the local champion of the weather topic
19:34:48 <herlo> ctyler: hehe :)
19:35:05 <ctyler> most of these topics seem to be tied into the bid process
19:35:16 <ctyler> family-friendly might be a liability?
19:35:55 <ctyler> herlo notes that at UTOS, they family-friendly activities, not all of which are strictly tech-related (e.g., paper airplane contest)
19:36:05 <ctyler> also XOs, Fedora facepainting, etc
19:36:19 <ctyler> how to use Gimp, OOo, other tools a family would use
19:36:31 <ctyler> about 1/3 more people show up on that day
19:36:40 <ctyler> family day was promoted in the marketing
19:37:13 <ctyler> jon asks how many people brought their family
19:37:22 <ctyler> herlo notes maybe 25%
19:37:43 <inode0> is family day mostly attended by the local community residents?
19:38:01 <ctyler> jon asks if it matters that its the type of event where most of the attendees are local
19:38:18 <ctyler> herlo notes someone says it's like tobacco, get them addicted while they're young :-)
19:38:18 <inode0> might help engage locals and media attention
19:39:42 <ctyler> hero notes that it helps family members understand what we do
19:40:23 <mchua> chris: does it help with media attention?
19:40:27 * herlo is a hero :)
19:40:29 <ctyler> herlo notes that it doesn't seem to affect media attention, but they haven't really sought media attention
19:41:10 * inode0 can easily image facepainting on the local news
19:41:13 <inode0> imagine
19:41:51 <ctyler> survey results from last FUDcon at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:FUDCon-2009-survey-draft.odp
19:42:21 <ctyler> mchua notes that a11y is not an enhancement, it's a bugfix
19:42:46 <ctyler> likewise family day is a bugfix
19:43:36 <ctyler> stickster notes that we must not assume that all Fedora participants are 25-yo white single males
19:43:50 <ctyler> ke4qqq - action items?
19:44:06 <ctyler> cost out a childcare service?
19:44:21 <ctyler> mchua: what is the goal/value of a family friendly day?
19:44:41 <stickster> ctyler: OTOH, herlo just said that UTOSC had a better experience *not* trying to be/have a childcare service.
19:44:56 <stickster> But UTOSC may not have the same goals as FUDCon
19:45:17 <ctyler> herlo - it may enable people who otherwise couldn't make it, project leads or others who would be valuable to have there
19:45:56 <ctyler> does anyone think this is worthwhile besides us? need to find out
19:46:33 <ctyler> maybe those people who have needs/problems (like needing childcare solution) should identify what they need
19:47:23 <mchua> ctyler: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:FUDCon-2009-survey-draft.odp
19:47:45 <mchua> #action mchua ask the peopel who need family-friendliness what they need
19:47:50 <ctyler> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:FUDCon-2009-survey-draft.odp
19:48:23 * mchua still has some accessibility stuff to bring up, but this was part of it
19:50:20 <mchua> #topic FUDCon survey slides
19:50:26 <mchua> slide 1: yay
19:50:30 <mchua> slide 2:
19:50:40 <mchua> max: I'm shocked there are that many people saying their primary role is enduser
19:50:46 <mchua> chris: less than half are developers?
19:51:00 <mchua> clint: what does developer mean?
19:51:56 <mchua> slide 3:
19:52:02 <mchua> mel: surprised by upstream numbers - thta's a lot
19:52:14 <mchua> max: we need to keep focusing on how to teach people how to be better contributors.l
19:52:29 <mchua> also, note "i don't use fedora" numbers
19:52:34 <mchua> slide 4:
19:52:59 <mchua> max: those numbers are different in other geos
19:53:13 <mchua> slide 5:
19:53:18 <mchua> slide 6:
19:53:22 <mchua> most of our attendees are first-timers
19:53:34 <stickster> #info Need to know: How many of the people indicating non-English primary were attendees?
19:54:15 * stickster muses... it seems to me that it would be useful to have every question on this survey show answers for attendees, vs. non-attendees
19:54:23 <stickster> i.e. both side by side
19:54:30 <heffer> mchua, more that one answer was possible on slide 3
19:54:42 <mchua> chris: how much of the "have attended a fudcon previously" percentage is due to fudcons growing year over year?
19:54:46 <heffer> so most of the people also answered that they are "end-users"
19:54:47 <mchua> i.e. how many repeat visitors do we have?
19:54:50 <mchua> heffer: Yes.
19:54:52 * inode0 suspects lots of developers also chose end user
19:54:55 <mchua> inode0: me too
19:55:01 <mchua> you could choose multiple things
19:55:03 <mchua> I did.
19:55:04 <stickster> inode0: I'm certain you're right. I did.
19:55:12 <mchua> what was notting surprised about, btw?
19:55:37 <heffer> so i wouldn't be too surprised then :)
19:55:42 <mchua> chris: becaues of the fudbus, i think we went longer on the hack part thatn usual
19:55:52 <mchua> paul: because the hackers were a captive audience.
19:56:38 <stickster> #info Slide 11 -- what does this distribution look like, minus Red Hat employees?
19:57:42 <mchua> mel: some interesting questions about sponsorship here
19:58:10 <mchua> did people who paid their own way do so because their attendance was cheap, because they wanted to give sponsorship oppys to someone else, because they didn't now there was sponsorship available..
19:58:21 <mchua> ...did people not think they *could* deserve sponsorship,and not ask, and therefore not go? etc
19:58:36 <mchua> slide 14: as expected
19:59:11 <mchua> mel: I wonder how much slide 15 correlates with "who paid for your attendance"
20:00:29 <mchua> paul: we have some previous surveys so we might want to go back and look at them again too
20:00:35 <mchua> esp for slide 1
20:00:36 <mchua> er, 16
20:01:50 <mchua> slide 17-18 look identical
20:02:05 <inode0> it seems to me most people who request sponsorship do so after being encouraged to by another project member
20:02:36 <mchua> inode0: if they're requesting sponsorship for the first time, my guess is that you're right.
20:03:12 <mchua> slide 19: I wonder how much this correlates with how people viewed fudcon - as work, as vacation, etc
20:04:17 <mchua> slide 20: paul thinks this is interesting
20:04:24 <mchua> "we don't care if it's close to RH"
20:04:58 <mchua> skipping the "how satisfied were you" sections
20:05:01 <inode0> funders might care, attendees not so much
20:05:13 <mchua> except for making sure there was nothing EVERYONE hated
20:05:16 <mchua> inode0: aye
20:05:24 <mchua> inode0: well, none of the red hatters in the room care either.
20:05:30 <mchua> we actually want to get out of the office.
20:06:53 <mchua> #info FUDCon Live folks: look at survey slide 40
20:07:02 <inode0> I see it as a bonus, some Red Hat people from an office get to attend who wouldn't otherwise
20:07:06 <inode0> That is a win
20:07:18 * mchua sees no reason to privilege RH people over other contributors
20:07:26 <inode0> no, it is a bonus
20:07:37 <mchua> I think a location should be chosen for the number of contributors it brings in, including (but not as a special case at all) RH folks
20:07:39 <inode0> if it happens to work out to be close to an office
20:08:10 <mchua> stickster: slide 40 - I heard a lot afterwards about the varying quality of the slides wrt how much someone could get out of them reading afterwards if they weren't present at the event.
20:08:50 <inode0> I never think people should read slides in the absence of the talk itself
20:09:06 <inode0> Good slides support the speaker, they don't tell the story by themselves
20:09:41 <mchua> Skipping to slide 52...
20:09:43 <spevack> +1 -- I prefer to NEVER use slides when I talk
20:09:44 <mchua> inode0: I just relayed that to the rom
20:09:50 <mchua> and a +1 to that from me
20:11:12 <mchua> "ponies that puke rainbows" - room cracks up
20:11:40 <mchua> paul: slide 54 - "I'm surprised every time I see people go 'organization was great'" because as an organizer it always look like the opposite
20:11:54 <mchua> top of slide 55: room cracks up
20:12:50 <mchua> bottom of 56: there are sessions you can understand without being a non-tech whiz.
20:12:58 <mchua> slide 57: everyone goes "okay, here are the bugs"
20:13:10 <mchua> networking: everyone agrees it sucks
20:13:30 <mchua> ...we've never not blown up wifi
20:13:58 <mchua> steven: in canada, we couldn't use our phones to go online, there was no backup plan.
20:14:14 <mchua> the sysadmins are discussing what we'd need to not hose the world
20:14:43 * nirik notes his co-worker has done networking for pycon the last few years. It's not a easy job to do right.
20:14:45 <mchua> paul: one thing I want to do next time is reduce the number of parallel sessions
20:14:57 <mchua> the quality of so much is good, but there's too much to do.
20:15:04 <mchua> nirik: Yeah, I definitely don't envy that job.
20:15:27 <mchua> paul: there are two parts to reducing the number of simultaneous tracks.
20:15:36 <mchua> there's pre-planning, and there's on-site, and there's expectation setting for both.
20:15:56 <nirik> FYI, here's his info from the 2009 pycon: http://www.tummy.com/Community/Articles/pycon2009-network/
20:16:02 <mchua> max: maybe we weren't brutal enough about scrapping the ones that didn't get votes.
20:16:07 <mchua> paul: but our schedule grid had too much room.
20:16:32 <mchua> chris: what if we split the ratio so we had 2 days barcamp 1 day hackfest?
20:16:36 <mchua> paul: I'd be up for that.
20:17:16 <mchua> max: we did barcamp wrong - voting on the window, not sticking things straight to the schedule grid.
20:17:57 <mchua> clint: user sessions weren't attended well perhaps due to lack of clear scheduling.
20:18:20 <mchua> clint: maybe we should have a user room, but the content that goes on in there is user-picked.
20:19:11 <mchua> max, how did you do the one you did the night before in berlin?
20:19:33 <mchua> (barcamp sessions were pitched the night before)
20:20:11 <mchua> paul: how about the general idea of... in advance?
20:20:17 <mchua> the night before, or 2 weeks before, it doesn't matter
20:22:47 <mchua> *debate about barcamp format*
20:22:53 * mchua doesn't like the pre-voting idea
20:23:10 <mchua> max: I think we need to consider a 4th day for the next NA FUDCon.
20:23:14 <mchua> *agrement all around*
20:23:36 <heffer> yes :)
20:23:46 <inode0> split it into two logical hunks, pitch half the night before for the 1st day and half at the end of the 1st day for the 2nd?
20:24:35 <mchua> mel: is FUDCon supposed to be a planning session?
20:24:44 <mchua> answer "sort of, yes, sometimes, yes, for some stuff"
20:25:13 <mchua> paul generally noting that a lot of feedback says "there were too many things to go to"
20:25:51 <mchua> "disappointing content for highly technical users that are not already Fedora developers" - do we care?
20:26:03 <mchua> max: I would love to know who wrote that.
20:26:15 <mchua> paul: it may have come from a fedora dev.
20:26:54 <inode0> or a non-contributor looking for a technical session of spoon feeding?
20:27:12 <stickster> Common thread: Need two days for tech. sessions, less going on at one time each day.
20:27:22 <stickster> I think that's a red-letter lesson for next FUDCon.
20:27:50 * mchua wonders - supertech noncontributor vs new user noncontributor: do we prioritize helping one over the other?
20:28:07 <mchua> they seem semi-orthogonal in terms of things we'd have to do to make their experience better.
20:28:29 <mchua> *session ending with people looking at the happy comment slides*
20:28:55 * mchua proposes a break after this
20:29:08 <inode0> if I were a non-contributor who stumbled in on the user track I suspect I would have found it to be less than I would have hoped for - but this is all about expectations isn't it
20:29:10 * ke4qqq thinks we are bogging down
20:29:35 * ke4qqq thought the assumption was a Fedora User and Developer
20:29:51 <inode0> yes, but there were neither in Toronto
20:29:54 <mchua> ke4qqq: I agree. I mean, my stance is "it'd be nice, but... not priority."
20:30:16 <mchua> inode0: Yeah, expectation setting is a big thing, we should do it better.
20:30:34 <mchua> paul: a lot of the "getting lost on campus" problems could be solved by having people get something - a flyer, map, etc - when they check into the hotel.
20:31:32 <mchua> max: fudcon-attendees list.
20:31:35 * mchua +1
20:31:37 <inode0> heh, I think people will still get lost on any campus no matter what you do :)
20:32:47 <mchua> Everyone reading the (lengthy, one comment) slide 67 now.
20:33:55 <mchua> stickster, can you dump your notes on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design#Data_from_the_FUDCon_survey ?
20:34:19 <mchua> paul: scheduling is hard - we're stuck between a rock and a hard place esp. in winter.
20:34:27 <mchua> there are like two weekends that we can get in before xmas but after finals.
20:34:38 <mchua> and if we do it after new years, it's right bang up against feature freeze.
20:35:13 <mchua> paul: the feedback we got the last time we did it in jan was exactly that.
20:35:28 <mchua> max: what if we pushed the schedule to let the event be more useful?
20:35:37 <mchua> would the world stop turning?
20:36:07 <mchua> paul: how much does that effect the rest of the schedule? that's hard.
20:36:17 <mchua> and generally takes some consideration.
20:36:48 <mchua> *survey over*
20:36:54 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design#Data_from_the_FUDCon_survey
20:37:24 <mchua> max: I would like the record to reflect that the Marketing team is AWESOME, and thank them for all their hard work on the survey.
20:37:31 <mchua> #topic break time!
20:38:02 <inode0> pool time
20:38:14 * mchua requests someone else to take over transcription
20:38:19 <mchua> (please)
20:38:31 * jds2001 cna take his turn
20:39:06 * jds2001 not incredibly good at it though :)
20:40:15 <ke4qqq> here is a first pass draft: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDcon_location_proposal_policy
20:44:54 <jds2001> leave for the movie with some clarity on the list that was produced today
20:45:22 <jds2001> have a blog post with what we are going to do tomorrow, and what order this is to be accomplished in.
20:46:19 <inode0> ugh, doesn't want more voting
20:47:15 <jds2001> where is this going to be done? is this a gobby session that gets transcribed into a wiki page, is it a conversation that gets documented, etc.
20:47:17 <inode0> well, as long as there aren't townhalls :)
20:47:25 <jds2001> inode0: i dont think that the voting will actually occur
20:47:48 <jds2001> inode0: just personal opinion - there is most likely only going to be one qualified proposal.
20:48:24 <jds2001> and we can set aside locations for the next time too.
20:48:57 <inode0> I would just rather those skilled in this stuff pick the location - rather than have another popularity contest decided by people who aren't going to it
20:49:19 <jds2001> exactly.
20:50:21 <mchua> my vision of a bid process involves the same people making the final decision, but having a better way to get information on various options that we have.
20:51:32 <herlo> spevack: cleaning up my gear here, then we need to go downstairs and clean up there really quick
20:53:49 <jds2001> stickster is removing ponies, beer, and other items from the stickies :(
20:54:57 <inode0> I love the bid process
21:05:46 <mchua> (people are still on break mode)
21:06:36 <mchua> rbergeron!
21:06:59 <mchua> rbergeron: No worries, we have a good session - the slides were *very* helpful
21:07:15 <rbergeron> excellent
21:07:16 <mchua> we're going to have some people go through them in much greater detail tomorrow to pull out concrete action items.
21:07:20 * mchua pulls up log
21:07:37 * rbergeron is crackberryircing over ssh
21:07:41 <mchua> rbergeron: If you scroll back through the log, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#A_note_on_remote_participation, we tried to transcribe comments as we went through the slides.
21:07:48 <mchua> rbergeron: ...ah, so, um... maybe when you get back later.
21:08:19 <rbergeron> indeed. just wanted to make sure there wasnt anything mondo important that needed to be known -right now- :)
21:08:59 <mchua> rbergeron: "how can we give marketing good feedback about the survey design so that surveys can also improve next round?"
21:09:07 <mchua> was one of the q's
21:09:22 <rbergeron> i'll be back in about 30. assuming my waitress comes back....ever :)
21:09:47 <rbergeron> mchua: i think us doing more than 1 day of planning / testing / implementation would help :)
21:10:09 <rbergeron> i'll review the logs.
21:12:16 * rbergeron waits for sdake's togo order and the bill....sigh
21:13:35 * mchua nods :)
21:16:16 <mchua> Back from break!
21:16:22 <mchua> #topic picking action items
21:17:07 <jds2001> General FUDCon calendar
21:17:07 <jds2001> 2010 Instance of this calendar
21:17:07 <jds2001> Bid Process
21:17:07 <jds2001> "Things we should keep" list
21:17:08 <jds2001> Bug list
21:17:10 <jds2001> "How to run FUDCon" doc
21:17:12 <jds2001> Make FUDCon 4 days
21:17:15 <jds2001> Welcome packet at hotel
21:17:17 <jds2001> Conference SW
21:17:20 <jds2001> FUDConLive++
21:17:22 <jds2001> Have a "family friendly" owner
21:17:25 <jds2001> Clear attendee sponsorship process
21:17:34 <ke4qqq> inode0: /me is confused - do you love the bid process - or not - seemed to read something else earlier from you
21:17:49 <mchua> We are currently working through the process on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design#Figuring_out_action_items
21:18:06 <mchua> inode0, rbergeron, laubersm, loupgaroublond, other remotees - feel free to chime in
21:19:04 <inode0> ke4qqq: in general yes, I don't want a community vote though
21:19:32 <inode0> if that is what that is, maybe I misunderstood
21:20:22 <ke4qqq> so jds2001 just added that he doesn't think community vote is helpful - I personally don't like the idea, however - Max's pain point was that it was opaque and appeared to be made arbitrarily - how do we solve that sans voting - and inode0, it's a wiki, feel free to offer suggestions.
21:20:37 <ke4qqq> and edit boldly
21:21:37 <inode0> I see that side of it, I just think the people who work on this within Fedora will make a good choice
21:23:14 * rbergeron has food! bbiaf
21:25:12 <quaid> "it's OK for people to be disappointed but never surprised."
21:25:51 <quaid> if event organizers are noisy, people can observe and participate in the choosing process without devolving to voting.
21:26:38 <quaid> mchua: did you all still need some help with the family friendly definitions, ideas, etc.?
21:28:27 <mchua> quaid: Not immediately, but I think it's a good conversation/context to have.
21:28:37 <mchua> I want to have a discussion on accessibility if we can find the time.
21:28:40 * mchua trying to get that in.
21:29:12 <mchua> inode0: to make a good decision, we need data. so I do see the bid process as a data-gathering, rather than a decision-making, process, primarily.
21:29:30 <inode0> yeah, I'm all for the bid process
21:29:41 <mchua> inode0: like, a bid process might be "if you want to bid, gather information points A, B, and C, some of which could be community feedback... then $these_people will decide based on those 'applications' which to pick."
21:30:07 <inode0> I agree completely with what you just said
21:30:29 <mchua> inode0: I also totally agree with the "a popular vote is a BAD IDEA" thing you brought up.
21:31:01 <mchua> quaid: Did you get to read the backscroll of the "family friendly" convo we did haveZ?
21:31:08 * mchua has been trying to keep things up to date for remoteees
21:31:22 * mchua has been struggling to keep up, but hasn't done too badly, I think...
21:31:35 <mchua> (a lot of other people have been taking turns at transcribing which has been SUPER helpful)
21:32:01 <inode0> mchua: no, this has been really good from my perspective
21:36:32 <mchua> inode0: tomorrow we'll be in deliverables-sprintin' mode
21:36:47 <mchua> are there any particular things on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design#Potential_things_to_work_on_Saturday you're interested in?
21:37:02 <mchua> and are there any suggestions on how to generally help remotees keep up with the hacking?
21:42:38 <inode0> sure, at least 3 and 12 I have some interest and thoughts about and 4,5,7 are maybes
21:43:03 <inode0> For this FAD the one thing I really wish was available was an audio link
21:46:54 <quaid> mchua: I haven't read the buffer about family..
21:59:14 <mchua> quaid: let me find that for you
21:59:41 <mchua> inode0: we're getting a confcall for you now
21:59:47 <mchua> inode0: wanna pop into fedora talk?
21:59:55 <mchua> quaid: ^^
22:00:08 <quaid> oh, sure
22:00:16 <mchua> quaid: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-01-29/fedora-fad.2010-01-29-14.31.log.txt
22:00:17 <quaid> um, which conf?
22:00:20 <mchua> quaid: start at 19:35:05
22:00:23 <quaid> and for what purpose?
22:00:25 <mchua> quaid: coming... paul is making it...
22:00:33 <quaid> ok, one moment here ...
22:00:44 <mchua> quaid: if you want to listen to the FAD convo - if you're coming in, I'll see if we can have the accessibility discussion too
22:01:29 <mchua> quaid: just asked - we need to get https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design#Potential_things_to_work_on_Saturday done first but if we have time afterwards, we're on for the family-friendly/accessibility convo
22:01:38 <mchua> quaid: if you want me to ping you when/if that gets here I can
22:01:41 <mchua> inode0: we're in 2005
22:02:13 <mchua> (also, for those remotees in the room, we had an extended discussion on FUDCon hackfests - and their distinctness from FADs - that I couldn't transcribe, so I filmed instead.)
22:02:17 <mchua> I'm uploading that now.
22:06:21 <quaid> ok, I don't have a softphone insalled or configured, give me a few minutes
22:06:34 <jds2001> quaid: 919-424-0063
22:07:09 <mchua> #topic admin staff
22:07:16 <jds2001> talking about smoothing onramping with an admin staff.
22:07:16 <mchua> "admin staff" idea - these folks would serve several purposes.
22:07:16 <mchua> * staffing the information desk
22:07:16 <mchua> * av duty
22:07:20 <mchua> * room monitors
22:07:29 <jds2001> admin staff would be drawn from sponsored attendees.
22:08:31 <quaid> jds2001: not as fun!
22:08:46 <quaid> mchua: ok, up to speed on family stuff; I do have some to add to that, i think
22:08:49 <ke4qqq> on ramping and new user joining - are "maybes" fro howto run a fudcon doc
22:09:05 <jds2001> s/user/contributor :)
22:09:57 <jds2001> fudcon assumes much context that new users dont have
22:10:02 <quaid> hmm
22:10:10 <quaid> fedora talk says I'm the only one in 2005
22:10:32 <jds2001> hmm
22:10:34 <jds2001> try 2000
22:10:43 <jds2001> i think i may have misdialed :(
22:10:43 <quaid> will do
22:11:10 <quaid> there we are :)
22:11:25 <ke4qqq> paul: marketing fudcon is something we have done adhoc
22:11:47 <quaid> nope headset
22:11:50 <quaid> but I'm muted now
22:11:59 <quaid> still echo?
22:12:02 <quaid> one sec
22:12:07 * quaid checks
22:12:37 <quaid> ok is that it?
22:13:03 <quaid> ok, it was my laptop microphone on
22:13:04 <quaid> sorry :)
22:14:29 <mchua> Paul is continuing to work through https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design#Potential_things_to_work_on_Saturday right now.
22:14:35 <quaid> cool
22:14:40 <ke4qqq> attach to events may/may not be a good thing. - maybe bid process
22:14:42 * quaid lost audio, probably a local problem
22:14:48 <mchua> We're still moving the last of the post-its (problems from the start of that IRC log)
22:14:57 <mchua> to items on the "potential Saturday items" list.
22:16:03 <ctyler> so we've categorized our list of items (again) in order to identify which things we need to need to finish by Sunday morning
22:16:19 <ke4qqq> paul: notes we have a number of RFEs
22:16:32 <ke4qqq> each RFE has a "this will fix it section"
22:16:39 <ke4qqq> and a "may fix this section"
22:16:51 <ke4qqq> and has post it notes of the problems under each of these subsections.
22:17:15 * quaid has audio back and hopes he isn't echoing the room
22:17:27 <mchua> quaid: you're good, or at least I can't hear your echo.
22:17:28 <ke4qqq> quaid: you aren't
22:19:13 <mchua> quaid: I've got to leave for filming in 15m
22:19:21 <mchua> quaid: if we want to have the family-friendly/accessible convo it's got to be soon
22:20:17 <quaid> ok, I can't be sure this is going to work via talk because the Sound Preferences mic mute is randomly taking out sound.
22:22:33 <mchua> Can someone please transcribe Karsten?
22:24:23 <jds2001> yeah, i'l record it
22:24:49 * ke4qqq notes that quaid's scenario assumes that they aren't 'very young'
22:25:36 <quaid> wow
22:26:08 <mchua> can someone please summarize what quaid is saying?
22:26:25 <ke4qqq> mchua: quaid said that his experience at events was that
22:26:35 <quaid> it's not necessary to have a formal child care and such
22:26:44 <quaid> the community can bring stuff to share (pot luck style)
22:26:45 * inode0 just connected, let me know if I am causing trouble
22:26:47 <ke4qqq> it needed to be relatively non-kid atagonistic
22:26:47 <quaid> in a discovery area
22:26:54 <quaid> and we can cater to kids down to ~4 (depending)
22:26:55 <jds2001> inode0: doesnt sound like it
22:26:59 <quaid> make sure to say "all ages"
22:27:08 <ke4qqq> and let them manage themselves
22:27:12 <ke4qqq> within some boundaries
22:27:27 <quaid> make sure to say "no child care provided, but space and people are here hanging out with their kids."
22:27:47 <quaid> and invite people who like to do stuff with kids to come.
22:28:02 <mchua> ctyler and I have to leave the physical fad shortly
22:28:08 <quaid> e.g. children's theater group can come in and do something for a bit, pass around brocures, we'll buy them lunch, etc.
22:28:36 <mchua> I've volunteered to wrap up documenting the day later.
22:29:03 <quaid> OK, for now .. let's put mchua + quaid down for family and a11y process
22:29:20 <quaid> +1 to shirts that have curves
22:29:43 <mchua> #action mchua loop back and document later tonight
22:29:45 <quaid> mchua: but an important one! I've seen geek women complain about that, rightly.
22:30:25 <mchua> quaid: Yes - I usually don't, because I have a boyish figure and have just gotten used to getting guys' shirts, but the single womens' shirt I've ever gotten at a geek event (bar camp new york in... '06, I think it was) was such a "zomg, they noticed!" revelation
22:30:29 * quaid is trying something ...
22:30:33 <quaid> any echo now?
22:30:40 <mchua> that I've kept that shirt since. iow, I noticed, and it made a difference to me.
22:31:09 * mchua still has that shirt, even if the design is meh and I didn't care that much about the event, whereas even my old olpc tshirt has gone by the "wear while painting/getting muddy" wayside
22:31:59 <quaid> mchua: I'm 100% positive a good shirt will look better on you than a random Beefy T size M
22:32:05 <mchua> YES
22:33:28 * mchua --> other building.
22:34:25 <quaid> is the list being updated on the wikli, too?
22:34:30 <quaid> or are you in gobby?
22:34:51 <ke4qqq> quaid: jds2001 is updating and will post to wiki when done
22:34:58 * rbergeron pokes back in
22:35:44 <quaid> thx
22:36:25 <quaid> nothing to say
22:36:37 <quaid> having problems getting mic muted with audio not muted
22:37:19 * inode0 using desktop without any mic, making that easier
22:37:23 <quaid> rbergeron: they are sorting through things for SAturday
22:37:40 <quaid> inode0: yeah, PulseAudio is having a hard time with this
22:37:48 <quaid> probably twinkle's fault
22:37:55 <quaid> maybe it's time to try the GNOME voip thing again
22:38:04 <inode0> I'm using ekiga
22:38:09 <inode0> ugly but works
22:39:49 <quaid> yeah, that one
22:39:50 <inode0> I'm getting a bad echo now
22:39:58 <quaid> well, last time I tried it, it didn't work so well
22:40:07 <quaid> did that fix it?
22:40:27 <quaid> it's like the sound prefs keep resetting from what I make them
22:40:35 <inode0> although hearing Paul talk really fast saying each word twice is entertaining
22:40:54 * mchua just found out she has to be in the video too
22:41:05 <quaid> natch
22:41:20 <mchua> (with ctyler, about POSSE - I'll... see you guys when I'm done panicking)
22:41:34 <quaid> holy moley
22:42:23 <quaid> it keeps resetting, and also jumping the icons around the dialog
22:42:34 <quaid> so I keep miss-clicking
22:42:52 <quaid> but I do enjoy having last.fm running as background/soundtrack
22:45:02 <quaid> inode0: you still have an echo?
22:45:05 <inode0> yes
22:48:24 <quaid> well, if they aren't complaining, I don't think it's me
22:49:57 <inode0> I figured we are so close to ending today it isn't worth spending much time on now
22:53:47 <jds2001> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010_Action_Items
22:59:29 <quaid> jds2001: do you need the gobby password?
23:06:36 <jds2001> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010_Action_Items
23:06:39 <jds2001> quaid: had it
23:06:52 <jds2001> all of that is what is on that page right now
23:09:12 <quaid> herlo: I met a fella at CLS West working on conference software ... did I put you two in contact?
23:10:31 <quaid> thx stickster
23:11:35 * quaid is working on his Apache + MediaWiki problem from HELL
23:11:57 <quaid> today's ride:
23:11:59 <quaid> http://twitpic.com/10cq5m
23:14:44 <stickster> OK, I'm getting ready to go AFK
23:14:47 <stickster> Great day everyone!
23:14:58 * stickster notes, if inclement weather tomorrow we may only have an online presence
23:15:21 <stickster> We will most definitely spend a little more time on the "FUDCon Live" track and Freeseer.
23:16:30 <quaid> sorry, how does weather count in?
23:16:36 <quaid> you mean you all will stay in your hotel rooms?
23:23:16 <inode01> quaid: I stepped away and came back to a rebooting machine :(
23:23:25 <quaid> owch
23:23:32 <quaid> they all done for the night
23:26:22 <quaid> I'm sticking outside for a bit longer
23:26:26 <quaid> but this is on the way:
23:26:27 <quaid> http://www.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=MUX&region=c1&lat=37.04412079&lon=-122.09850311&label=Santa%20Cruz%2c%20CA
23:26:37 <quaid> wall-O'-water
03:34:34 <herlo> quaid: dunno, but probably not.  Everyone is working on conference software it seems
03:52:40 <inode0> so how was the movie?
04:52:06 <spevack> it was great
04:52:26 <spevack> http://www.weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/graph/USNC0558?from=today_topnav_AirQuality
04:52:40 <spevack> stickster_afk, mchua_afk, herlo, ctyler, etc:  http://www.weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/graph/USNC0558?from=today_topnav_AirQuality
04:52:44 <spevack> it's going to be bad in the morning
04:52:48 <spevack> EVERYONE BE CAREFUL
04:53:18 <spevack> and if it still sucks on Sunday, we'll take care of any extra hotel stuff, and stickster_afk and mchua_afk won't drive home until they feel comfortable.
04:53:37 * spevack is not optimistic about getting out of his apartment complex in the morning
04:54:01 * inode0 giggled
04:54:45 * spevack wonders if everyone is having a snowball fight
04:55:03 <inode0> how much snow are you getting
04:55:29 <spevack> couple of inches, but it's supposed to snow all night.  I'm worried about frozen roads, not a few inches of snow
04:56:27 <inode0> if they are covered with snow that helps :)
04:57:33 <inode0> I have an ice dam about 8" thick on my patio roof now
04:57:45 <spevack> inode0: wow
04:57:53 <inode0> poor design
05:00:16 <inode0> http://www.wunderground.com/US/NC/Raleigh.html
05:00:22 <inode0> that sounds like it might be worse
05:01:02 <inode0> snow fog!
05:01:08 <spevack> Snow and sleet in the morning...then sleet and freezing rain or snow or freezing drizzle likely in the afternoon. Total snow accumulation of 6 to 10 inches. Ice accumulation of up to a tenth of an inch. Much colder with highs in the upper 20s. Northeast winds around 15 mph with gusts up to 30 mph. Chance of precipitation near 100 percent.
05:01:55 <inode0> it is 1F here now, much colder in the upper 20s sounds wonderful :)
05:02:29 <inode0> t-shirt weather
05:04:14 <inode0> you don't treat the roads?
05:04:49 <inode0> upper 20s doesn't freeze on the roads here normally
05:05:35 <inode0> oh, those are highs though
05:06:59 <inode0> actually it does sound bad, everyone stay safe
05:20:23 <stickster> spevack: Everybody's OK here... no snowball fights tho'
05:20:25 <stickster> :-)
05:20:27 * stickster doing a quick flyby on freeseer and then heading to bed
05:20:31 <stickster> We'll wait until 9am tomorrow to decide whether we're going to chance roads, but right now prognosis is not good.
05:21:45 <ke4qqq> at least we have a good back up plan available here
05:21:48 <herlo> heh
05:21:53 <ke4qqq> we'll be productive regardless
05:23:07 <herlo> maybe :)
05:23:12 <herlo> depends on how much you talk ke4qqq
05:23:36 <spevack> heh
05:24:20 <ke4qqq> yeah - always have a problem with me talking a lot don't we
05:31:53 <herlo> ke4qqq: it's true :)
05:33:27 * ke4qqq doesn't think it's an issue
05:34:23 <herlo> hehe, probably not
06:03:29 * mchua reading backlog, swooping through documentation of the day, then possibly sleeping earlier than usual tonight.
06:05:16 <herlo> good idea mchua
06:05:32 <mchua> herlo: nm, just discovered y'all are in the lobby. coming out to join. :)
06:09:35 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#Thursday_January_28 all done
06:10:11 <herlo> mchua: I'm not in lobby
06:10:40 <mchua> herlo: me, jon, chris, and david are, if you'd like to join the fun.
06:10:52 * mchua is just here until the day is documented, then going to do the sleeping early thing.
06:10:52 <herlo> mchua: nah, bed time for me actually
06:10:55 * stickster too
06:11:05 * spevack is trying to find the energy to write a blog post before bed
06:11:17 <herlo> night all
06:11:37 <mchua> spevack: you could also do the sleeping thing and do it in the morning.
06:11:52 <mchua> I was tempted to do that, and then I started writing, and went "meh, I haz momentum."
06:11:56 <spevack> yeah... catch you all on IRC in the morning, and we'll see what's what.
06:12:13 <mchua> ayup. spevack, we'll be making the drive/no-drive call at 9am.
06:12:47 <mchua> someone'll SMS you with the decision, but it should be pretty obvious by the time we wake up in the morning.
06:16:16 <mchua> I'm going to close the logs for Friday here as well, so we can look at action items and links and stuff, and open up the bot again and count everything from here on out as "saturday."
06:16:21 <mchua> which technically it is.
06:16:22 <mchua> #chair
06:16:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler dgilmore herlo jds2001 ke4qqq loupgaroublond mchua spevack stickster
06:16:26 <mchua> #endmeeting