10:23:27 <jwf> #startmeeting Fedora Documentation FAD 2018 - Day 3
10:23:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 28 10:23:27 2018 UTC.  The chair is jwf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
10:23:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
10:23:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_documentation_fad_2018_-_day_3'
10:23:32 <jwf> #meetingname fedora_docs
10:23:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
10:23:40 <jwf> #topic Hack Time!
10:24:59 <jwf> #chair asamalik[m] mattdm ryanlerch mayorga coremodule ssitani bexelbie jsmith langdon cverna sumantro rkratky
10:24:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: asamalik[m] bexelbie coremodule cverna jsmith jwf langdon mattdm mayorga rkratky ryanlerch ssitani sumantro
10:29:02 <jsmith> ryanlerch: Not sure if you're familiar with it, but this is a Bootstrap Table module that I've really come to like: https://github.com/wenzhixin/bootstrap-table/
10:33:21 <bexelbie> cverna, will read - in a break out at the moment
10:38:03 <coremodule> jwf, When you get some time, would you mind reviewing the 'raspberry-pi.adoc' here: https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/21
10:38:29 <jwf> coremodule: Looking now!
10:40:29 <mattdm> would some brave soul like to work on updating https://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-project/project/help.html?
10:40:41 <mattdm> it is intended to be an update to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicating_and_getting_help
10:40:49 <mattdm> but that page is just full of "oh, nope, nevermind"
10:43:07 <jsmith> mattdm: http://search.cpan.org/~daxim/Mediawiki-Blame-0.0.3/lib/Mediawiki/Blame.pm
10:49:41 <mattdm> jsmith: nifty
10:52:23 <jwf> mattdm: Maybe. Could you add this to the "to do" section on the Etherpad?
10:52:29 <jwf> I might circle back around to it later today
10:53:31 <mattdm> jwf: yes
10:53:41 <jwf> mattdm: Thanks!
10:53:58 <mattdm> jwf: can you remind me of the etherpad link? :)
11:02:32 <asamalik[m]> mattdm: http://etherpad.osuosl.org/fdocs2018
11:05:01 <jwf> asamalik++ Thanks!
11:11:41 <mayorga> jwf: When you have some time, would you mind reviewing the 'bumblebee.adoc' here: https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/17
11:14:19 <jwf> coremodule: Looks good! I did a quick pass on the RPi article. The changes look good. I'd like to get mattdm bexelbie rkratky ssitani to take a look too for the reasons explained in the comment:
11:14:21 <jwf> https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/21#comment-46592
11:14:25 <jwf> mayorga: Looking now.
11:14:34 <coremodule> jwf, linking irc channels directly in the ascii-docs page is pretty brilliant!
11:14:50 <coremodule> jwf, thanks for looking! I'm going over your feedback right now.
11:14:56 <jwf> coremodule: Yeah, I thought that one was cool :D
11:34:34 <jwf> mayorga: I'm about halfway through, breaking for lunch
11:34:44 <jwf> #topic And now, a change of pace: food!
12:43:21 <jwf> #topic Hack Time! (Round 2)
12:43:25 <jwf> We're back in the room.
12:47:21 <jwf> mattdm: https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/21#3_331
12:49:59 <jwf> coremodule: Check this out, I was referring to this: https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/system-administrators-guide/blob/master/f/en-US/entities.adoc
12:50:12 <coremodule> jwf, looking!
12:50:17 <coremodule> thanks!
12:50:58 <jwf> coremodule: https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/blob/master/f/docs/contribute/first-steps.adoc#_1
13:20:07 <jwf> Hi all, is there a mailing list admin around for the docs list?
13:20:30 <jwf> I sent an email from the wrong address with FAD notes last night, but it's important that the email isn't approved with that address
13:20:41 <jwf> I wanted to be sure and see if someone could discard it so it isn't accidentally approved later
13:20:57 <jsmith> jwf: There's a *slight* chane I'm still a docs list admin... hold on.
13:21:12 <jwf> jsmith: Thanks. Otherwise I can make a noisy zodbot ping if not :P
13:22:22 <jsmith> jwf: There are no held messages, according to https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/docs.lists.fedoraproject.org/held_messages
13:22:31 <jwf> Huh. Weird…
13:22:40 <jwf> I guess someone is actively curating the held messages queue then?
13:22:44 <jwf> That's at least nice then
13:23:27 <jwf> jsmith++ Thanks for checking anyways.
13:23:27 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for jsmith changed to 5 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:24:45 <jsmith> jwf: I didn't get an email about it getting held for moderation either ... oh well
13:35:10 <mayorga> jwf++ Thanks for the review.
13:35:10 <zodbot> mayorga: Karma for jflory7 changed to 22 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:35:41 <jwf> mayorga: Yep, cheers! \o/
13:36:49 <mayorga> jwf: Your lack of cookies was concerning to me, there you go!
13:37:05 <jwf> I can always take cookies :D
13:37:19 <jwf> Maybe I can race Patrick to stroopwafel badge!
13:37:27 <jwf> …but he'll probably still get there first :P
13:40:40 <mayorga> jsmith++
13:40:40 <zodbot> mayorga: Karma for jsmith changed to 6 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:42:52 <jwf> .moar cookies docs-team
13:42:52 <zodbot> here docs-team, have some more cookies
13:42:56 <jwf> :D
13:46:05 <jwf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/onboarding-guide
13:46:31 <jwf> Working on putting new content here that we discussed earlier, things like Fedora Planet pages, and if sumantro jumps back in tonight, then possibly a Bugzilla page on creating an account
13:48:23 <jsmith> bexelbie: I would like to start the Style Guide discussion, either later today or tomorrow morning.
13:48:51 <jwf> ^ fwiw, it would be really, really cool to have that done as a deliverable from the FAD. I'm also willing to support that, tonight or tomorrow morning :P
14:11:01 <bexelbie> jsmith, +1
14:11:12 <bexelbie> perhaps this afternoon do a breakout
14:11:36 <jsmith> bexelbie: I love the phrase "break out", because it lets me believe I can actually break things :-)
14:12:39 <bexelbie> mjahoda, ping defensive coding guide
14:12:55 <jwf> bexelbie jsmith: +1. I can do 16:30 - 17:30, I have two calls before and after I have to catch
14:13:21 <jsmith> jwf: ACK.  I'll put together a strawman outline before then.
14:13:29 <jwf> .thank jsmith
14:13:32 <zodbot> jwf thinks jsmith is awesome and is happy they are helping! (Please don't forget to jsmith++ also)
14:15:29 <bexelbie> cverna, ping how can I unblock you on the CI, I feel like I have left you and bstinson blocked
14:15:44 <bexelbie> this will relate to amongst other things the use case around the defensive coding guide
14:18:03 <cverna> bexelbie: so the CI has been running on the quick-docs repo
14:18:43 <cverna> bexelbie: but it is queuing a lot of job, I need bstinson to get a look at that
14:18:45 <bexelbie> cverna, I think we should consider having a voice level bandwidth conversation with/without bstinson so we can get caught up - I am not following all of hte "paper trail" and think a reset is going to faster
14:18:47 <bexelbie> would this work?
14:19:02 <cverna> bexelbie: yes
14:19:11 <bexelbie> ok, let's figure out when bstinson is free and do it
14:19:22 <bexelbie> I suspect we'll have a bunch of folks who want to join here
14:19:23 <cverna> sounds good to me
14:19:25 <mattdm> https://about.gitlab.com/2016/05/10/feature-highlight-push-to-remote-repository/
14:19:43 <mjahoda> bexelbie, hope you have some good news regarding DCG :-)
14:21:50 <bexelbie> mjahoda, we are trying to figure out status
14:21:56 <bexelbie> it looks like updates in gitlab are not being pushed to pagure
14:22:07 <bexelbie> and we don't see hte _topic_map.yml being maintained as part of hte gitlab process
14:22:12 <bexelbie> so we have a split brain syndrome
14:22:24 <bexelbie> we also are going to have a call later with CI folks so we can bring up the split-snippets issue
14:23:40 <bexelbie> does this jive with your understanding mjahoda ?
14:24:08 <mjahoda> mjahoda, from what I know, the pull from Gitlab to Pagure was done after we finished in Gitlab
14:24:34 <mjahoda> s/mjahoda/bexelbie/ :-)
14:25:04 <mjahoda> bexelbie, what updates have you found (to be on Gitlab)?
14:27:17 <bstinson> bexelbie, cverna: let me know when, and i'll be available
14:27:44 <bexelbie> mjahoda, per rkratky (I did not look) there were commits there in hte last 20 days.  There have been no commits to pagure in the last 20 days.  Also, I understood you would use the "push to remote repository" feature of gitlab if you all were requiring to stay there
14:27:58 <cverna> bstinson: bexelbie I am available now
14:28:28 <bexelbie> cverna, bstinson I am available in 5-10 minutes
14:29:14 <bexelbie> changing rooms
14:30:14 <mjahoda> bexelbie, https://gitlab.com/redhat-crypto/defensive-coding-guide/commits/master - you're right, Nikos probably corrected something because the guide from Pagure is still not rendered (and the version from gitlab.io is currently linked from the Customer Portal)
14:30:17 <cverna> bstinson: there is a big pile of job waiting in jenkins, dunno if you have seen
14:30:23 <bstinson> cverna: looking now
14:30:28 <rkratky> mjahoda, a commit from yesterday: https://gitlab.com/redhat-crypto/defensive-coding-guide/commit/a58324a8e738a0df454cd921360bd554e3ff9740
14:33:17 <mjahoda> bexelbie, rkratky I believed that we (with Nikos) agreed that the Pagure repo is now the primary for DCG :-/
14:33:44 <mjahoda> bexelbie, rkratky he wasn't probably patient enough
14:34:47 <bexelbie> mjahoda, can we confirm with the authors that we are not primary on pagure and actually get it up to date? We can push a publication and get the old repo turned down with a link pointing to pagure
14:34:48 <rkratky> mjahoda, :( could you please ask him about it?
14:34:51 <bexelbie> this jives with my memory
14:35:02 <bexelbie> bstinson, cverna redhat.bluejeans.com/bexelbie for CI talk
14:35:32 <cverna> ok
14:36:06 <zoglesby> bexelbie: along with a style guide, we need to start working on the docs contrubutor docs again, not saying yall need to do that at the FAD, but we need to put in on the roadmap.
14:36:42 <rkratky> zoglesby, we started on that; very WIP, but on our radar
14:36:59 <bexelbie> zoglesby, agreed.  I think we are shorthanding them as the same .. and yes .. .perhaps you can join in and we can work a bit on outline to help us not miss much, it'd be ideal to have some stubs done
14:38:16 <mjahoda> bexelbie, rkratky I believe that if we get DCG published from the Pagure repo, the crypto guys will accept it as the primary one (then we have to change the links in the teaser article @ Customer Portal and cherry-pick those few commits happened meanwhile)
14:40:46 <cverna> bstinson: joining the call ?
14:40:55 <rkratky> mjahoda, It would definitely be nice to change the teaser links to point to docs.fp.org instead of some random gitlab.io page... But I think we still need a commitment from the crypto guys -- not least because they allegedly had isues with pagure's CI.
14:41:05 <zoglesby> rkratky: bexelbie where did you start working on it? I had setup https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/documentation-guide but I don't see your work there
14:41:13 <bstinson> cverna: sure, which call are we on?
14:41:21 <cverna> bstinson: redhat.bluejeans.com/bexelbie
14:41:48 <rkratky> zoglesby, I didn't know about that repo. For the time being, I was just compiling offline notes.
14:42:13 <rkratky> zoglesby, will use that repo going forward
14:43:20 <mjahoda> rkratky, I agree, on the other hand, I understand why they've made those commits now (when the Secure Programming topic was announced) - they (logically) commited to something what is working
14:43:25 <zoglesby> rkratky: gotcha, I am not tied to any of the content in the repo, it was all stuff that Pete and I wrote a few years ago and can be changed
14:43:48 <rkratky> zoglesby, one nitpick though -- I thought we were after a Contributor Guide (which would include a section about docs). This way, the title is a bit limiting.
14:45:10 <rkratky> mjahoda, Understand. But can we get them to agree to the plan you outlined above?
14:45:27 <mjahoda> rkratky, Nikos ensured me and Brian that he has no problem with using Pagure as long as builds of DCG are made automatically (after commiting to the master branch)
14:47:34 <mjahoda> rkratky, should I ask him for an explicit commitment to the plan by e-mail (with you and Brian in Cc:)?
14:47:35 <rkratky> mjahoda, right, thanks for the clarification
14:49:34 <zoglesby> rkratky: I am not opposed to that, just not sure one guide that has stuff for each sub project makes sense rather than giving each team a section like docs.fp.o/docs, docs.fp.o/design, etc
14:50:00 <rkratky> mjahoda, bexelbie mentioned that someone from crypto (presumably Nikos) had reservations about pagure's CI. I just want to avoid a stalemate where we would get the builds working from pagure, and someone would say "we don't like it; gitlab does the job better". Would be a waste of time. But if Nikos is OK with pagure, then cool.
14:51:08 <rkratky> zoglesby, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Just want to clarify what our goal is.
14:51:59 <zoglesby> sure
14:54:34 <mjahoda> rkratky, check please those two forwarded e-mails briefly
14:55:39 <rkratky> mjahoda, will do
14:57:33 <jwf> rkratky zoglesby: Thinking ahead to style guide discussion, does it make sense to put those here then? https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/documentation-guide (cc: jsmith)
14:59:11 <rkratky> jwf, Depends on the type of style guide you have in mind. Is it Fedora-wide (how to use trademarks, logos, project language, ...), or just for docs?
14:59:20 <zoglesby> jwf: there is a bit of that in writing-format.adoc and writing-markup.adoc but I can't say that they are up to date, I don't really recall what we wrote in the markup doc
14:59:39 <jwf> rkratky: My understanding was that this was style guide for writing docs for Fedora in AsciiDoc
14:59:59 <jwf> zoglesby: I'm wondering if it makes the most sense to land changes in that repo if we expand on them here
15:00:17 <jwf> We could also set up an AV bridge if anyone remote is able to join and is interested
15:00:24 <jwf> We were planning to start that discussion in 30 minutes
15:00:45 <zoglesby> jwf: I would think so, but I am not there so you all may have other ideas
15:01:05 <rkratky> jwf, if it's the latter, it would make sense to have it in this repo, but in that case, I'd like to keep the 'style guide' super short amnd only discuss stuff that are specific to our AB + AD situation. No generic AD, i.e. no duplication of existing third-party manuals.
15:02:43 <jwf> zoglesby: If you're interested in joining, let us know and I can make sure that's set up.
15:03:03 <jwf> rkratky: +1. I was thinking of pointing people to this as a base (https://asciidoctor.org/docs/asciidoc-recommended-practices/) and then any unique changes to Fedora in our doc
15:03:08 <jwf> cc: jsmith ^^
15:03:35 <rkratky> jwf, right, sounds good
15:07:56 <zoglesby> jwf: ping me when you start, if I can jump on for a bit I will
15:13:09 <jwf> zoglesby: I'll work on getting that set up
15:13:17 <jwf> zoglesby: jsmith put together a draft so far here: http://etherpad.osuosl.org/fedora-style-guide
15:13:21 <jwf> Feel free to take a peek
15:13:23 <jwf> #link http://etherpad.osuosl.org/fedora-style-guide
15:13:29 <jwf> Or anyone else interested in the style guide discussion
15:15:21 <jsmith> zoglesby: Awesome :-)
15:18:32 <jwf> #link https://redhat-documentation.github.io/asciidoc-markup-conventions/
15:19:27 <jwf> zoglesby: We can use the Jitsi from earlier this week: https://meet.jit.si/DocsFADFedoraRulez
15:27:39 <zoglesby> jwf: okay, I am in the jitsi
15:32:07 <jwf> zoglesby: We're getting set up, just another moment
15:34:48 <jwf> zoglesby: Can you hear?
15:45:05 <jwf> zoglesby++ on the start on docs-guide
15:45:05 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for zoglesby changed to 1 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:17:05 <bexelbie> rkratky, my read of the conversation with mjahoda is that pagure is going to be primary and we need to get the commit hooks working
16:18:00 <rkratky> bexelbie, yes, ideally. But I read your earlier email where you suggested holding off on that and using the gitlab -> pagure pushing first
16:18:58 <rkratky> bexelbie, from what mjahoda wrote, Nikos is cool with either
16:19:31 <rkratky> bexelbie, of course, a pagure-only solution would be better
16:22:36 <bexelbie> rkratky, yes :) I am hoping we have the commit component by the end of the week
21:08:18 <jwf> Surprise, logs ran late :P
21:08:20 <jwf> #endmeeting